Eleven Warriors analyzes why RR & Spread failed at Michigan
(Note: I struggled with whether or not to title this OT in the subject line. However, it is about Michigan, and Ohio, so I didn't go "OT," even though it is yet another RR rehash.)
Over at Eleven Warriors, their current headline article is (link:) The Spread in the Big Ten: Why Did Rich Rod Fail at Michigan? This is a followup to an earlier 11W column on Meyer's Spread Failures. I am posting this NOT so there can be another discussion / flamewar about RR & "what went wrong" with lots of hand wringing and readers lining up for or against RR & the Spread. As mentioned here many times, "No Moar RR!!" Rather, I find it interesting that Ohio is looking at this, and wondering what Meyer will bring with the spread. They clearly are curious, and trying to ascertain what to expect in Ohio's future.
FTR, the writer (Fulton) suggests that RR's failure was due to not adapting the spread beyond it's origins. I disagree, and so do many of the 11W readers. RR's offense was doing well by 2010, and would likely have improved in 2011. The major problems, as every mgoblog reader already knows, were:
- The defense (Schafer, Gerg, RR meddling, lack of bringing Casteel with him from WVa.)
- The special teams.
- Lack of institutional support. (Carr et al, not paying enough to bring in Casteel.)
- RR's failure to fully understand and embrace Michigan culture (including Ohio rivalry.)
- RR's failure at diplomacy (Josh Groban, anyone?)
They also give Hoke and Borges credit for a number of things, including "getting" Michigan, and adapting to current personnel.
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:52 PM ^
There isnt one. All offenses will drop of statistically vs. better defense. Statistics are not the point. If your offense routtinely scores 24 and only an occasional 42 against patsies a 20% dropoff is only 5 points. Since your defense is built around supporting that type of offensive production you're better prepared to overcome that dropoff and still win.
If you routinely score 48 and get 65 against patsies but have a defense thats built to support that type of offensive production that 20% statistical reduction is 10 pts and that defense is under greater pressure to over perform against its mean.
Granted, if you could have Sabans Alabama defense along with Oregon or WV's spread and shred your going to break records and dominate. We've yet to see this assemblage and possibly never will because offense and defense on a given team do not excist in a vacuum. They are very much interdependant and yet statistical analysis of this is far more difficult or even impossible.
February 23rd, 2012 at 12:47 PM ^
It will be interesting to see what happens at Ohio with Meyer. He really is fortunately to have Miller, who can make things go with a Spread. Meyer also won't repeat the RR mistakes on defense.
Having said that, I have serious doubts about how well Meyer will do. My hope is that he does "well," but still loses 2 - 3 games a year, every year.
February 23rd, 2012 at 1:11 PM ^
a lot of other things did.
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:14 PM ^
First, why all the RR post hating if their are so many people who still want to talk about it. If so many people still want to talk about it, then quit trying to shut people up. Second the spread didn't fail, look at the numbers. We're going to send denard to new york based mostly on the offense running the spread. And third, RR didn't fail as much as the support around him did. To many people decided (selfishly) to undermine the "outsider" over support for michigan... not true fans in my opinion.
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:40 PM ^
Performing an autopsy on the RR era without talking about defense is like suggesting Marie Antoinette was actually killed by slow poison because impurities in the water she was forced to drink while imprisoned. No, it was definitely the head.
Considering how many veers and high-lows and responses to the scrape exchange I have in the UFR database, I'm really surprised that the crux of his argument comes down to "RR didn't adapt to adaptive defenses."
I mean he's just 100% wrong about that.
The offense got better every year despite every year having essentially a freshman quarterback running it. By 2011 it wasn't even the Spread 'n Shred so much as a QB Iso offense, something nobody else in college football was running.
And anyway it was a quite simple Spread 'n Shred--meaning the Zone Read running game with little to no counters to spread adjustments--that Borges was running last year when Michigan's offense shredded a Buckeye defense at peak performance.
The offense had nothing to do with RR's failure at Michigan except among the zombies who still sniff at anyone who might say a bad word about punting and running with fullbacks into 9-man fronts. Even his gaffes would have been overlooked entirely but for the fact that he hired a 4-3 defensive coordinator who didn't get along with the idiots he wouldn't fire, and then replaced that DC with a 4-3 idiot who agreed to run a 3-3-5 and get along with with the idiots RR wouldn't fire.
It was the defense, stupid.
February 23rd, 2012 at 4:44 PM ^
And just leave this as the single answer to the OP?
February 23rd, 2012 at 5:06 PM ^
It was the defense, stupid.
Yes. The defense was the core reason for the lack of success. Personally I'd take that a step further and argue that allowing a defense to get/be so bad was evidence of a deeper, more systemic problem with how the head coach viewed managing the overall program. But that takes us into the other arguments hashed and re-hashed. So yeah, the defense.
February 23rd, 2012 at 2:59 PM ^
While Brady alternates Golden poops to start the game and half time Rainbows, I think it was RichRods perfectly normal bowel movements that did him it. Also, worst defense ever didn't help.
February 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 PM ^
Whatever you do, don't read the comments on Eleven Warriors. It will make you want to poke your eye balls out and rip off your ears. Their fans are beyond insane.
February 23rd, 2012 at 6:05 PM ^
Urban had a power back to make his spread work at the goal line. His name was Tim Tebow. He's recruited some power runners like Dunn so he has someone that can punch it in when the field gets compressed and there is less room "to spread" from the 5/10 yard line into the end zone.
During RR's tenure, he never really recruited or put somebody in a power back role. Mondrous (sp?) ended up at linebacker. Brandon Minor wasn't bad, but he really wasn't a power back and he tended to not hold up well to the wear and tear of banging into guys. There were times when we just needed to punch it in with some power against the better defenses in the B1G. Sometimes, field position and down/distance beg for a dose of Manball.
February 24th, 2012 at 5:12 PM ^
Nobody is really talking about this, but bringing Urban Meyer and the spread to Ohio State is a huge cultural shift. We're talking about three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust, only-three-things-can-happen-when-you-pass-and-two-of-them-are-bad, Tressel-Ball Ohio State. Let's face it, MANBALL is their heritege.
Yes, Urban Meyer comes in with a pedigree, but so did RR when he came to Michigan. No, Meyer is not RR and the situations are not the same, but there is still the same culture shock element at play. Ohio State only aspires to be Oregon if Oregon keeps winning.
If things do not go smoothly there will be lots of angry soul searching about thier identity and roots. We know, we were there.