Edited Title: Player development over next three games
EDIT: I agree that the question I posed in the original title (what's the best outcome for the season) is dumb and loser mentality. But I still think I posed one question that isn't quite as flamebaity and worthy of discussion:
Can the players show enough development/progress/etc. over the next three games for you to believe in Funk and Borges moving forward?
What exactly would it take for you to believe in them?
November 17th, 2013 at 12:24 PM ^
November 17th, 2013 at 1:05 PM ^
IME, the most likely scenario is that we lose all 3 remaining games, Jackson retires, and Borges & Funk are retained. We'll be better next year, but this staff isn't capable of beating OSU. It's not a big enough deal for Hoke, so with 3 more losses in a row to OSU (does this team seem spirited enough to beat Meyer?), Hoke & co get canned after 6 years at M.
November 17th, 2013 at 1:36 PM ^
November 17th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^
Are you actually asserting that beating OSU isn't a "big enough deal" for Brady Hoke?
November 17th, 2013 at 1:45 PM ^
IA is a team we can beat! Then the team will finish at 8-4 for the season and meet my prediction and several others.
Play hard against OSU. I hope we can pull of the major upset but as long as it withing 10 points I will be happy. If OSU comes and blows us out then it will lead to a sour note on the season.
I'll let Hoke evaluate his coaches.
November 17th, 2013 at 3:06 PM ^
3-0 would be pretty cool
November 17th, 2013 at 3:15 PM ^
Regardless of the number of wins, I want no coaching changes this year. Of course, I think to win out, or win two out of three, will only help Borges and Funk. But I believe they are staying, and I'm thrilled with that.
I also believe coaching instability is terrible for the program, and the best possible thing is for them to stay. I really want to see what the OL can do next year.
Yeah, so the best possible outcome is for Michigan to win out, but regardless of wins, I want the entire coaching staff to stay intact.
November 18th, 2013 at 9:05 AM ^
Ed Ogeron and his 5-1 record after firing Kiffi-kins says Hi!
Whats worse?
A. A coach on the proverbial hot seat who has lost the players
B. Firing said coach, and bringing in/promoting a new guy who can reach said players
I will go with Option A, when you loose the players you get what we are watching on Saturdays.
We are not talking about "fire the entire Offensive staff", we are talking about 1 guy out of 5 or so position coaches who has taken what should have been a good OL group and turned it into a sieve.
November 17th, 2013 at 3:36 PM ^
November 18th, 2013 at 3:36 AM ^
Bielema took underwhelming recruiting classes and won the conference numerous times, making it regularly to the Rose Bowl. Those who lack our "clear naivety of organizational dynamics" would prefer more regression under Borges (who has not made it to the end of a fourth year anywhere in the past dozen years, being fired from Cal, Indiana, and Auburn) to actual success on the field?
Also, "flush[ing] a lot of QB recruiting"? We foolishly passed on taking any QB one year; Borges has done a really fine job of coaching up Bellomy and Gardner; and while I hope Speight turns out to be a star, he is a consensus 3 star recruit.
When you are willing to pay an OC enough money to make him top 3 in the country, you don't need a successor lined up when you realize that the one you have now is not only not elite, but is below-average. His offenses have regressed here, just like they did at Cal, Indiana, and Auburn. Given that we are now willing to write a big check for an OC, we could use that money this offseason to bring in someone who is worth it.
November 18th, 2013 at 9:09 AM ^
November 17th, 2013 at 4:17 PM ^
I'm still completely on board with Hoke and his staff. This season has been mildly disappointing, but not the disaster it's made out to be. This is year 3 of a 5 or 6 six year rebuild, if you're going to give them the opportunity to coach their own players.
A lot of our offensive woes seem to revolve around Gardner and the line. We all know how bare the cupboard was in terms of o-line quality and depth. Gardner no doubt suffers from the sub-par line, but let's remember he isn't the QB Borges and company want. At his core he's a dual threat guy and long term the staff wants a more traditional pocket passer. My guess is as Morris moves in and matures, he'll be far more accurate, particularly since the line should be much better.
The D, youth and all, is effective and promises to get better.
As we keep rolling in elite recruiting classes, the future is bright.
November 17th, 2013 at 7:32 PM ^
November 17th, 2013 at 8:27 PM ^
Yeah that too. The players are there. Coaching pretty much leaves a lot to be desired. Way to conservative and stupid calls. I dont believe our offensive line is that bad. Those guys look lost out there. I doubt the line coach is back next year. He doesn't know what he is doing.
November 18th, 2013 at 9:07 AM ^
November 17th, 2013 at 9:01 PM ^
November 18th, 2013 at 1:17 AM ^
November 18th, 2013 at 10:27 AM ^
That's not how things work. From what we can see from the outside, the current coaching staff seems to work very well together. We don't hear about power struggles or politics between the coaches. Now that might just be Fort Schembechler, but it certainly seems like the coaching staff comliments each other in style and orientation.
So say you ranters get your way and Borges gets nucked at season's end. Do you really think that the offensive coaching shake up stops with the OC? That additional staff changes on the offensive side of the balll aren't likely? If I'm a top OC and I'm being pursued by Michigan, I'm going to have a list of people I want working with me. Those staffing changes are going to be part of the hiring conversation. Especially if I'm expected to turn around a tire fire in a single season. I won't get them all but I'll get some, and that has a huge danger of creating factions within the staff. Now if I'm not a top OC or OC candidate, why would Michigan want me?
If you think that Hoke should stay, then whether you like a particular coach or not, you are saying that Hoke should get the staff he wants.
In case you haven't noticed, all evidence suggests that means Borges will be here at least through the end of 2014 and probably longer.
November 18th, 2013 at 10:53 AM ^
I don't want to start a huge fight and I will freely admit that there are many others on this site that know A LOT more about football than I do. Having said that, I don't think there is a lot of hope that we'll see much development in the next three games simply because we have seen so little over the past three years. If this staff can't point to even one position group and saw marked improvement over the course of their three year tenure (which I believe they can't) then I can't bring myself to hold out hope that this team will dveelop over the course of three games.
In my humble opinion, I believe at a minimum every position coach on the offensive side of the ball should be fired in the offseason. If there could be an argument made for one I believe it would be the WR coach becuase I do think they have shown some development, but other than that I can't think of a single position that has progressed in the last three years (in fact some seem to be going backward).
I am still not sure AB is the answer at OC either, but I don't really know enough about the finer points of football strategy to pass judgement on him in that area. What I will say though, is if even a relative novice can predict more than 50% of his playcalls with accuracy (which I have been able to do since startiing to try it 3 weeks ago) than I think there is some truth to the fact that he is far too predictable.
Couple that with the fact that he is the QB coach (none of our QB's have progressed since he came here) and responsible for the offense as a whole and I don't see a very good reason for keeping him around either, except for the fact that he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
So I guess in closing for me, anything short of a complete coaching overhaul on the offensive side of the ball during the offseason will be a disappointment.
November 18th, 2013 at 12:04 PM ^
I wonder if some of the folks "watching for improvement" noted the change between Nebraska and Northwestern in our O-line?