Early PT
Well the mantra the last 2 years has been plenty of playing time available at Mich. Why can't we get x recruit he could start right away. We are so thin at x position we need multiple guys we are in desperate need of so and so. I was listening to Sam Webb this morning talk about the safety possibly likin Mich because of the early pt available well I think we are getting to the point where uh... take a seat freshman will soon be more the norm. I don't see a lot of guys burning a red shirt next year or in 2010.
QB-No Chance
RB-Maybe a Superstud could bump into a Shaw/Smith/Cox/Toussaint roto by doubtful
TE-Redshirt buddy
Ol-Redshirt buddy
Slot- Full up see ya in 2011
WR- Maybe for depth, but Stonum, Hemmingway, Stokes, Roundtree aren't just getting pushed aside.
DT-No chance
DE-A lot of bodies to hop but other than Roh no studs have jumped out..maybe a guy
LB-No chance.. get in line
CB-Warren, Ciss, Turner, Floyd....need to be a stud or injuries
S-We're thin but if healthy they would need to pass, Willimas, Woolfork, Emilien and the Walk On Brigade that seem to have earned their way up.
The special teams will be littered with the Hawthorne, Smith, Jones types so I don't see a lot of the incoming guys burning up too many redshirts.
Possible non redshirts
Marvin
Ricardo
Robinson
Wilkins
September 18th, 2009 at 11:58 AM ^
I remember Brian mentioning something about a likely redshirt for Gardner.
EDIT:
As for next year, and beyond… even that's tough. At this point I assume you dearly want to redshirt Devin Gardner (about whom more in a sec), which would be difficult if Robinson moved to another position. At the same time, you don't want Robinson wiling his time away on the bench; you probably want both Forcier and Robinson on the field.
September 18th, 2009 at 11:54 AM ^
Especially on defense, if we get a stud (or even very good) recruit, they'll probably see some playing time. They hopefully won't start, but could easily see some snaps.
And after the ND UFR, not sure how you can say "LB-No chance.. get in line"
September 18th, 2009 at 12:01 PM ^
I thought about that, but you have Fitzgerald and Demens waiting behind 2 3 year players. Even if they blow that lb would have to be pretty special and I don't see Jeff Luc coming thru that door.
Gardner will most likely redshirt barring disaster..I may have been confusing with the "no chance"
September 18th, 2009 at 12:11 PM ^
We need a lot of help at LB - on the inside, both Ezeh and Mouton are struggling - Ezeh in particular has struggled with basic reads and reaction. They may get better but I think a stud frosh could break in to the LB rotation - I don't see M close to signing that person at the moment, but there is opportunity there (and we have a long way until February). DBs as well given athleticism can more easily make up for lack of college-added strength at either corner or safety.
In either case, I think only an early enrollee that can get enough time in the system would be likely to compete for PT.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
Pure DE - Who's going to replace Brandon Graham? We have no one on the team that step up next year for him. This is going to hurt our pass rush next year. We need a pure DE in this class, and there are very few options left.
SLB - Stevie Brown is gone next year, and all we have to Mike Jones, Ike Bell, and Brandin Hawthorne. All 3 are freshmen, so there will be a drop off there. This position will be open to all next year.
CBs - Warren is legit, Cissoko will be fine, but JT Floyd needs more time, and we haven't seen Turner prove himself. I can see a freshman CB coming in and stepping up to be a nickelback.
MLB - Mouton has been okay this year, but Ezeh has been really bad. Need more competition at this spot to push the current starters.
S - what else needs to be said? We need competition and depth here badly. A freshman could easily seize a spot here; Vlad was on the fast track to do this but I guess he's sidelined with an injury.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:24 PM ^
You nailed our defensive problems, but you are asking a lot of true freshmen to make that leap. Could happen, but no one did it this year when there was more opportunity other than Roh.
DE I mentioned Wilkins but he needs to beat out RVB, Roh, Lalota, Herron.
LB we have the 2 deep coming back very tough position to learn.
CB We have top 4 coming back
S We have top 4 coming back.
Could a superstar come in and earn some time sure but we lose 2 guys off our 2 deep and of our 17 recruits none of them is projected to walk in off the street college ready on the D other than Marvin Robinson.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:12 PM ^
Defensive line-
RVB and Roh are pure defensive ends. Roh is just small because he is a freshman and RVB is out of position because we don't have a better option this year at DT. Next year I expect our d line to be roh, campbell, martin and rvb. That D-line looks sick to me. Backups are Lalota, Sagesse, Banks and Herron.
Linebackers-
Ezeh, Mouton, ? (Brandon Smith, Hawthorne, Jones, Marvin Robinson)
backups-Demens, Fitzgerald, and one of the above in parenthesis)
dbs- (there isn't a nickleback in Gerg's defense because of the spinner)
Warren (please), Cissoko
backups-Turner, Floyd
Safeties-
Woolfolk, Williams
backups-Kovacs, Jones, Emelien,
The only positions of doubt on the d next year will be spinner and maybe safety and there are several candidates for that job that have been here for a while including a four star converted safety who will have been here two years in Brandon Smith. I don't see any freshman we have recruited so far on d making the two deep except Marvin Robinson maybe at spinner. Sharrif Floyd, if we could pull him and he comes in early maybe as well, but Campbell was rated similarly and isn't on the two deep yet and he came in early. I have to agree with the op. Lots of redshirts for the class of 2010, which is a very good thing for U of M.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:17 PM ^
QB: Probably redshirt
RB: Vincent Smith already got some carries with three seniors (Brown, Minor, Grady) and Shaw ahead of him. Why wouldn't a freshman be able to grab some carries from Shaw, Smith, and Guys Who Haven't Played Yet?
TE: Yeah, redshirt. We're not recruiting very many at all, anyway.
SR: Redshirt (unless it's Chris Dunkley or someone awesome like that).
WR: Again...why couldn't a freshman push past Roy Roundtree, who still hasn't caught a pass?
DT: It depends on how they reshuffle the line (for example, does Van Bergen take Graham's position?) and if Banks/Patterson come back for their fifth year.
DE: Our defensive ends next year will be Lalota and...uh...maybe Van Bergen? There's definitely a chance.
LB: Considering Kevin Leach is the backup WILL, I'd say there's definitely a chance for a freshman to play (not start, but play).
CB: Probably redshirt, although stud corners don't usually redshirt. It depends on who it is. Floyd might become a safety if we get CB depth.
S: It's WOOLFOLK. We need bodies and depth. I wouldn't be surprised at all if a freshman steps in and plays some backup minutes next year.
If you think only four freshmen will play in 2010, I think you're probably mistaken.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
I respect your analysis I just think it is a lot harder than you guys make it out to be. I told everyone Will wasn't going to be a factor this year and he was a 5 star.
DE we have a spot open no doubt I said Wilkins or whoever.
CB- I agree a superstud usually doesn't redshirt but he will be behind 3 4.5 star type guys and a 3 yr player in Floyd
S-It's not Woolfolf it is Williams, Emilien, Gordon and Kovacks.
The depth is much worse this year and you have not seen anything from supposed Spring wunderkinds Vlad, Jones, Hawthorne, Will even though we need it. Turner yet to see field. Bell, Lalota all are working out getting better It takes time.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:51 PM ^
Congratulations on telling everyone Will wouldn't be a factor. By "non-factor" did you mean that he would make a TFL in his first game? I'm glad you've reached the conclusion that you were right about Campbell by the end of Week 2.
Floyd got torched in his only appearance and should probably play safety. Nothing you have seen or heard indicates that a decent freshman couldn't come in and take Floyd's place on the two-deep or force him to move to safety.
Is "Woolfolf" some sort of joke? The guy's name is W-O-O-L-F-O-L-K. Not Woolfork. Or Woolfolf.
I'm not saying it's easy to contribute as a freshman, but there's a difference between "not easy to contribute" and "automatic redshirt."
September 18th, 2009 at 1:56 PM ^
Woolfolf made me woolrofl
September 18th, 2009 at 1:59 PM ^
Boy Magnus you need to relax. Get up on the wrong side of the bed today? I made a spelling error while I'm at work give me a break. I tried to make a point that there are not free spots anymore on this team like with Tate and Denard, Odoms last year etc...
I have no idea who will redshirt or won't. Rod has it set up so the best will play. I'm just saying the kids now will have to be exceptional to see the field as true freshmen in the coming years as we have built up most of the depth it is just young and unproven. You keep pointing out guys who I already mentioned at the bottom of my post as potential non-redshirts. We seem to agree about most of the content, I don't know what you're complaining about.
I mentioned Will because I got bashed when I said he wouldn't play this year, because all anyone saw was 5 star. Don't bring up a play from garbage time against Western to prove I'm wrong. If he plays significant time in the Big Ten then I was wrong and that is great because he will be way ahead of schedule and will be a monster next year.
September 18th, 2009 at 10:49 PM ^
I wake up on the right side of the bed every morning. But when you spell a guy's name wrong - and not just wrong, but different both times - it kind of dilutes your point.
I'm not bringing up a garbage time play to prove you wrong. I'm bringing up a garbage time play to show that there is no right or wrong yet. You were patting yourself on the back for being right about Will Campbell, but in his first game, he got a tackle for loss. Yeah, he didn't start and make 2 sacks, but for a true freshman in his first game, I'd say that's pretty good. Then he didn't play in the second game of the season. How does any of that help you reach a conclusion about Will Campbell's impact this year? It doesn't.
We do agree on many points, but we disagree on others. I'm voicing my disagreement. You can either say "Okay, we disagree" or you can argue. You're apparently choosing to argue, which is fine. I'm okay with that. We don't have to agree.
This is all fine and dandy. I don't mind. I'm not upset. Just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm pissed or I think you're stupid. I just think you're wrong.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:19 PM ^
I don't think Ricardo is a possible non-redshirt. The WR corps next year should be pretty god with Stonum, Hemingway and Stokes already out there and Roundtree could jump out there as well. Plus, Ricardo is likely not even the best WR in this recruiting class. I think that's J. Robinson.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:55 PM ^
I believe every WR on the roster has played this year (Mathews, Stonum, Savoy, Hemingway, Rogers, Stokes - not sure about Roundtree). We lose Mathews and Savoy at the end of the year, which leaves us with 5 wide receivers. I don't think it's unfathomable that a freshman WR will play, especially if the remaining WRs are mediocre blockers (I'm not saying they are, but it's possible). If Miller can at least block, he can probably earn some playing time.
Also, Jerald Robinson isn't that good. Miller wasn't the 5-star talent every Michigan fan wanted him to be, but Robinson is overrated as well.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:09 PM ^
Cameron Gordon hasn't played yet and as of the other day he was still at WR.
But you're point is well taken, a freshman WR could get some pt under the right circumstances.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:31 PM ^
In the latest recruiting update on Marvin Robinson, he said he's being recruited to play Steve Brown's position. With Hawthorne, Bell, Jones, and Robinson to play that position, I don't think we need much else. One out of those four guys should be able to step up.
Also, yes, we have the two-deep at ILB coming back, but one of those guys is a former walk-on (Leach). He hasn't done anything to cement his place as a contender for much playing time. He's basically just been a warm body, so a freshman could easily pass him up.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:26 PM ^
aren't the two players backing up Mouton and Ezeh, Demens and Fitzgerald? If not, is that because neither of them can play ILB, or is Leach really just better than them? If Leach is better what makes you think a true freshman is going to beat him out?
September 18th, 2009 at 2:42 PM ^
Fitzgerald is second on the depth chart at MIKE. Leach is second on the depth chart at WILL.
Leach isn't very good. He's just a guy. A talented linebacker could beat him up. Leach is a hustle guy who could contribute on special teams, but he's not a guy you want out there playing full-time. In fact, if Mouton went down with an injury (or a suspension), Fitzgerald would probably be Mouton's replacement, not Leach.
September 18th, 2009 at 2:46 PM ^
"A talented linebacker could beat him up". That is pretty funny Magnus, I bet Blount would whup up on him too.
September 18th, 2009 at 10:50 PM ^
Yeah, that should have said "...beat him out." I was typing that in a hurry.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:43 PM ^
One thing to consider is that the staff has made it very clear that they want to play 20-22 guys on defense. Right now that is simply not happening because we don't have enough playmakers in the two-deep who "deserve" to be on the field for significant lengths of time barring injury.
Was there any rotation in the secondary or LB's against ND other than Kovac coming in for Williams (cramps) and Herron occasionally spelling Roh?
While a freshman probably would not come in and start immediately, I think there is still plenty of opportunity for an impact freshman to get in the two-deep and play 20-25 snaps per game right away.
September 18th, 2009 at 12:59 PM ^
the up-pace no-huddle offense requires rotating personnel on both offense and defense. The matchup is no longer "can our top 22 outplay your top 22" it's "can our top 75 guys outplay your team".
Plenty of PT available in such a system, and guys down the depth chanrt need to be ready to play.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:26 PM ^
Be nice if we could get King to come in. Judging from the article posted yesterday he seems to be a beast on the end.
September 18th, 2009 at 3:21 PM ^
Thing is we can always recruit early playing time since rich rod like petey at USC lets people compete, so if a 3 star comes in and plays better then last years starter they're going to play. It's all about having the best on the field. I enjoy this approach since were not sitting on talent and letting inferior talent play.