Future looks bright
i refuse to even consider this a possibility
Nice read, thanks for posting. I cant wait to see what he does with our defense, how he shifts around some of the hybrid type guys, and how he can develope our young talent.
You are welcome kind Sir.
We have returning starters at just about every position, combined with a few players who would have contributed last year but were injured. The line should be okay with Martin, RVB, Roh, and Black, the LB's have JBFitz, Demens, and CGordon, and obviously the secondary has TWoolf, Floyd, & Kovacs.
There are also a few wildcard type players that hopefully Mattison can do something with: M-Rob, Furman, Mike Jones, and Carvin. I know our defense was dreadful but I feel like DocSat was selling out talent a little short.
The defense was sold short...i mean it was bad on a historic level but theres talent there. I expect Matty will do big things with the rerurning starters. My god if he just teaches them solid tackling we will be much improved right? My prediction was the defense would be better this year anyway but now im even less worried about the matter. Do you think Matty could teach SB how to make a 30 yd field goal?
The article mentioned that the return of most of the starters were at one time considered 4 * recruits. Is this true? I'm guessing Roh, Martin, VanBergen, Campbell (if he returns to this side), but who else? I've never been a huge recruit follower, but understand that rating does usually mean more initial talent. Who else on the "projected" defense were highly rated recruits?
According to Rivals, Ash, Christian, M-Rob, Ken Wilkens, Cam, Roh, Q, Demens, J.B. Fitzgerald, RVB, Mike Williams, and Martin were all 4 stars with Big Will a 5 star. Granted a lot of these players are not at the position they played when being recruited.
That's good to here that there are some nice building blocks. Hopefully the age of the players is perfect for the transition, as many of them are past the first year jump of realizing how much quicker the game is, and used to the college game, but young enough to still be able to adapt to a new scheme. In addition to all these 4*'s I think Woolfolk will be a solid DB (Corner or safety) and that Avery started to look decent towards the end of the season. We should have some great competition in the secondary next year, which I will greatly appriciate. Whatever formation we run, I hope that we play an aggressive front, and play the corners tighter than we have in the past. I always felt that no matter, how good the QB is, if he is rushed, he is not going to be great.
I felt the coaching transition started about as bad as any, but is quickly pulling itslef back together. I give the coaches, both new and old, and especially the players, a lot of credit for weathering the storm and staying together as a group. Despite the record, I'd be hard pressed to pick a Michigan team I liked more than the players we have right now.
Rivals and Scout had him as a middle 3*, but ESPN loved him: 81 rating (don't think they gave stars back then), #11 safety, #94 player in the country. He's at LB now
Cam Gordon (although at reciever), JB, and Demens. Campbell was a five star IIRC.
Demens and Fitzgerald were 4* LBs. Gordon was a 4* WR (not the same but still was a 4*). None of the returning starters in the secondary were 4*, however who knows how that'll shake out for 2011. I believe only Christian was a 4*.
rated by the recruiting guru's was never the issue. Yes Rich seemed to recruit more 3 stars than any other coach in Michigan history, but there is still plenty of 4 and a few 5* on the team. The issue was the development of those players, or in many cases the lack of development..
I take it you have near-complete faith in recruiting rankings?
"... issue was the development of those players, or in many cases the lack of development ..."
Did Kevin Grady just "not develop?"
I think going to a 4-3 could be just what the doctor ordered for us. Roh and Van at the ends, Martin and the corpse of Will Campbell at the tackles...could be a nice mix.
I think the hybrid guys could be helped by being in a more defined position. The problem is some of them need to drop weight and get faster and others need to gain weight and become true linebackers. I think it is possible but gaining weight and learning to play a position fast takes a time...we may see this pay off in two years with the hybrid guys (the problem is in two years we will have 0 D-line players and will be forced to run the first 0-6-5)
you appear to be failing to take into account last year's bumber crop of DL players: Black, Ash, Wilkens,Talbott,and Paskorz as well as one of the highest rated guys in this years class in Brendan Beyer. Needs depth for sure, but the pipeline isn't empty.
I agree but besides Black and maybe Ash our defensive line looks to be pretty weak. I can't know for sure but that has been the feeling since that class came in. Also I was joking in case you missed that.
Demens seems to be a solid MLB. I'm not too worried about the size of the OLB like the Gordons. Cam seems to be an excellent open field tackler, and solid against the run. His size and speed, also means he could be decent in covering slant routes from both TE and slots. I think some of the mid to late 90's defenses, emplyed some smaller LB's like Gold and Jones who worked out well.
While Cam is tall, he's lanky, and I thought he struggeld at the line of scrimmage and taking on blocks. He's going to have to get a lot bigger and play MANBALL lower if wants to stay at OLB. But I do think he's a playmaker and he'll get there.
Contrast him to Mike Jones, who's got a huge bum (no homo) and strong lower body - perfect for taking on blocks or filling holes against the run. I. Bell is similar. I think it's most likely we see Demens, Fitz, and Jones starting at LB next year. Though waaay too early to say.
Cam might be better suited then for third and longs at the OLB. I agree he won't do much with a pulling gaurd, but he seemed to do really well when he was allowed to blitz. I was imagining the 4 downman causing some more double teams, and our OLB's allowed to blitz, stay in short coverage, or fill the whole against a fullback. Although, I'll fully admit, I am not close to an expert, or even a really educated person when it comes to defensive sets and who goes where, so always feel free to prove me otherwise. I'd rather someone tell me I'm wrong with a good explanation than just call me a DB (correct as that may be, Ha).
I'm not nearly an expert myself. Very interested in what Cam's role will be next year - he can make plays, but I'm not sure his body type lends itself to a lot of added weight. Would be a rare odyssey to move from 4* WR to pass rushing OLB, but he's athletic enough. Really like him as a player, very curious to see where he ends up.
will help unless the team learns to f'ing tackle.
I agree with that but running you scheme correctly and being gap sound will cut down on the big plays that killed Michigan all year...not being able to tackle is one thing but there were plenty of times when we just weren't in position to make a play.
I honestly don't remember a lot of missed tackles this year, and actually remember some decent open field tackles by Cam Gordon and Vinopal. I do remember plenty of holes that were wide open when our linebackers slid to far down the line, or wide open wheel routes, or wide open men when we were between man and zone defenses. I think positioning and scheme are going to make the most difference in whether we come back to a decent defense over, you know, the last two years.
specifically with the 2 you mention - Gordon and Vinopal. Cam hit people too high and didn't wrap up, and Vinopal threw too many shoulders w/out wrapping up. Carvin Johnson seemed like a great tackler for a TF, and I think he takes the SS position next year (though there are a lot of candidates, incl. Kovacs)
I do agree with the scheme - gap sound is a must next year, and GM should bring that
Ooo oo and T-wolf comes back. That alone has to account for a huge jump!
However IF (knock on wood) he doesn't improve our D over the course of a few years, with all his success in the college and pro ranks, then finally I think we can all agree that Shafer wasn't quite the evil many at the time thought he was.
Can't wait to see the effects Mattison will have on the field!
Along with the majority of you, I was angry with how our coaching search transpired. I was frustrated with the delay, the seeming indecision by DB, and the ramifications that resulted, including a decrease in the number of available coaches, the obvious impact on recruits, and the general unease felt amongst the fanbase at our seemingly flailing around in search of a coach.
But I have come to realize, especially with the recent hire of Mattison, that what DB did was the only realistic way that he could have gone. Why do I say that?
Now that the coaching change has been made*, I am more pleased with what has transpired. DB was true to his word in the sense that we are spending more, which must be the case to get Mattison from Baltimore, which I am thrilled with, he seems to be a great hire. Our most important recruit will be in Ann Arbor in 2011 (Denard). And we are going to a 4-3. Woo, I say. Our offense may slip a bit, from excellent to great. But if we trade our special teams and defense from bad to above average in the near term, and great in the long-term, I will take it.
*For the record, I was a fan of the RR hiring. I loved the idea of bringing in a dynamic offense to Ann Arbor, and thought that coupled with our traditionally strong D great things would happen. I was also an advocate of giving RR a 4th year, but as our D continued to stagnate and our special teams showed little signs of improvement, I became more impartial to a change. Now that we have made the change, obviously I am becoming more and more okay with the hire, and am even guardedly optimistic.
The 3-4 and the 3-3-5 require very specific personnel that Michigan just didn't have. I thought those were schemes that were awful, awful fits with the players they were trying to jam into those spots. It was as uncomfortable to watch as the first Rich-Rod offense. While Rodriguez found guys that were excellent matches for his offense, he never landed those marquee recruits that could make similar impacts on defense
I think a return to a 4-3 base would be an excellent way to salvage the last bit of those careers.
Were did you get your mastery of defensive schemes and personal? Or did you just write down your opinions in this post?
Michigan had the players to run a 3-4 or 3-3-5. We just didn't have the coaching and instruction to go along with it. Just because you didn't like the results of the team the last few years, doesn't mean you get to make things up.
"In the first case, seven regular starters and 11 of the top 15 tacklers return in the fall,..."
Roh, Martin, VanBergen, Demens, C. Gordon, Floyd, C. Johnson, Vinopal, Kovacs
That's 9...not counting TWoolf.
I think the wealth of returning players...yeah, I said "wealth"...will pay off in 2011. I do think we'll see some changes to the starting lineup, but for next year, we should actually have pretty good personnel.
The defense this year has some major reasons for optimism:
The rest hinges on better coaching and year-to-year improvement, which last year we learned wasn't a sure thing but should be. This should be most evident in the linebacker play. I don't think "toughness" of scheme or personnel was the problem last year at LB so much as positional misalignment and players consistently chasing the play instead of being where they need to be to funnel or fill. In a word: coaching. And Mattison should be on anyone's short list of guys who know how to coach linebackers, right?
We don't know what the scheme will be. But between Jones, Furman, Fitz, T.Gordon and M-Rob there's a good shot of one or two of these guys becoming more effective OLB starters next year than the combination of Mouton/Obi/Fitz/Roh and the freshman rotation at the (probably now defunct) Spur position (though they weren't terrible). If we go 3-4, figure Roh becomes what Woodley used to be, and it's Demens plus two from the above; if we go 4-3, Roh's got his hand down and it's still Demens plus two from the above. So to break it down, we're going from this:
With Roh not in a position he's bad at, and Demens not lined up in a position to fail.
At the safety spots the room for improvement is greater but the potential not so much. Still, given warm body is probably better than Gibson, Kovacs can be trusted to be the same kind of guy Wisconsin and Iowa have gotten away with for years, and I have this vauge feeling like Carvin Johnson can play free safety.
Things that still worry me a lot are depth and talent at safety, and depth behind the defensive line. As to the latter, we probably need two of Ash, Talbott, Q-Wash and Will to emerge as better than Patterson and Sagesse, and one or both both of Paskorz and Wilkins (or perhaps Beyer) to be better than Greg Banks. Fortunately our head coach is the guy who turned in consistently effective defensive lines using 3-star types like Norman Heuer, Grant Bowman, Shawn Lazarus, Pat Kratus, Dave Petruziello, Dan Rumishek, Jake Frysinger, Juaquin Feazell and Eric Wilson. When he had 4-stars at his disposal he turned out Rob Renes, Glen Steele, Larry Stevens, James Hall, and Josh Williams. Few of these guys were very big or demanded double teams.
Having lived through Hoke's tenure as D-Line coach, I was always kind of upset that we were "getting by" with Grant Bowmans. Planetoid objects like Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Alex Ofili and [Name Redacted], and competing for the creme of ILB/DE prospects like Woodley, Eugene Germany, B.Graham, Will Paul and Pat Massey were all in the future. Howevah, Hoke has historically done a great job with undersized guys like Wilkins, Paskorz, Q-Wash, Ash and Talbott.
I think you may be selling some of those old D-linemen a little short. Steele and Renes were All-Americans by the time they were seniors, and Hall is one of our all-time sack/TFL leaders. We did have a stretch at the end of Hoke's tenure where the DL wasn't as strong, but it was generally pretty good. In 2001 I think we led the nation in sacks (or maybe it was just the Big Ten).
Regarding the CB position, I liked what I saw out of Courtney Avery. I think Floyd's going to have his hands full winning that job back. Avery was obviously undersized, and pretty raw technique-wise, but I thought he displayed good instincts and athleticism.
Renes is like the perfect example of what a Hoke defensive lineman can become -- he's like 260, and came with a scant recruiting profile (they thought he was a linebacker if I remember pre-OMIGOD RECRUITING recruiting) of a typical 3-star "eh" guy -- like a Sarantos if you remember what Sarantos'es were like (I just do 'cause my friend's wife used to date one). Or maybe a Brackins. Brackinses.
Steele and Hall were recruited by Hoke's predecessor, who is...oh, our new DC Greg Mattison. So, uh, yeah, I guess you can count those guys?