That is, unless we can stop them from doing so. The standings are misleading. PSU stands at 5-0 and in first place of the Leaders Divisionbut they have a brutal 3 game stretch to finish the season. I suspect they will lose all three games. But even if they just lose 2 of them that would place them in a tie with Ohios State who currenty only has 2 conference losses. Meanwhile Ohios State would have the head to head tie breakers against PSU and Wisconsin. The only thing really standing between OSU and the B!0 championship game is Michigan. Btw, I was very impressed with the OSU defense last night. They really out muscled Wisconsin.
Don't look now but Ohio State appears poised to win the Leaders Division
The test for Hoke is OSU.
If he fails, Da-veed will run him through his personal grape presser (it's monogrammed, natch) and take over the team for the bowl game.
After you have tried detox, why don't you come back and try again?
Bill's response was to the jibberish NYC_wolverines posted
Your mom goes to college
It's hardly fair to say that this is a "test" per se, especially for a first-year coach with last year's personnel and a change in philosophy on both sides of the ball. The OSU game, like most games this year, is a benchmarking exercise. Whatever the result, it will say much about where this team is now and how far it has yet to go. First, however, is Iowa in six days.
Re new coaches, schemes, etc.... When Bo beat Woody, I am pretty sure Bo did not say, in describing The Game "Well boys, we have all these mitigating factors, so let's just treat this as a tune-up for next year..."
If Tressel came up here and beat us his first year, I want Hoke to be able to boast the same. It's Michigan v. OSU, it's The Rivalry.
Sure, Iowa, the "game by game, don't look ahead" is fine, but I am pleased that Hoke put up the countdown clocks for MSU and OSU.
It doesn't exactly apply here.
Brady Hoke walked into this job under vastly different circumstances than Bo Schembechler. I think Hoke may have more to overcome than Schembechler did in some regards really.
One thing that Brady Hoke does not have, for example, is the previous coach being still within the University family. Bump Elliott took another position within Michigan athletics and helped solidify the foundation Bo built by taking no complaints - at all - from his former players regarding Bo's "intensity", let's call it. Brady has himself to establish his own culture for this team.
Hoke and Schembechler took over underperforming teams, but in Hoke's case, the transformation is far more radical, and to achieve what he wants to achieve, the first season has been and will be a week-by-week progress check. That is not to take away from the rivalry - it will be an intense game like it always is, like it was 1969, but you have to keep the three-dimensional view of the team in mind.
While that tends to describe Bum's tenure as Head Coach, his 1968 team was ranked 4th in country heading into the OSU game.
The were also one yard short of being undefeated in 1964, shut out OSU (YTOSU), and won the 1965 Rose Bowl handily over OSU (NTOSU).
wasn't much different. In 2001, OSU came to Ann Arbor with a 6-4 record, a first year coach and coordinators, and a QB making his first career start after Belisari's DUI earlier in the week. Michigan was 8-2 and ranked 11th.
OSU won 26-20.
1969 was significant.
I have to laugh at the absurdity of the poster who hates basically every coach/GM in town talking about the need to "be a fan."
Didn't anticipate personal abuse. If there's anything the last three years taught me, it's pragmatism about Michigan football, and no, I would never apologize for beating OSU. No one should ever apologize for beating that school in any sport, including intramural ones.
not so fast benchmarking is when you go out and see what other people are doing to solve the same problem so you can steal there ideas and lets focus on iowa right now
You are the biggest moron on these boards.
No, he wont. Hoke has already exceeded most fans expectations for this year.
By the time we play them, they will have had 2 or 3 more players suspended so no worries.
Good. Maybe we can beat them twice.
No....by the time WE face them all players will be magically reinstated. Heck - I'm still not 100% sure TP won't somehow be granted just one more game eligibility so he can play.
Were they not supposed to have the ruling on them by now?
The first round of rulings/sanctions are going to come out right before The Game. That could deflate them a bit. Is that timeline right?
expected them to come out on Friday of the bye week. Now, who knows?
Was the second Posey allegation actually in the NOA, or did they have to go back and add it? If they had to go back it seems like they would tack on a week or two to their schedule.
on that one. My understanding is that they were aware of the issue before the hearing, but I could be wrong.
Kinda makes one re-think the outrage most UM fans expressed when it looked like the OSU vs. Michigan game might get moved up in the schedule by the evil Jim Delaney. If UM had gotten the chance to play OSU when MSU got the Buckeyes (no Mike Adams, no Dan Herron, still unsettled on a QB), I am pretty confident UM would have won the game.
Unfortunately, Braxton Miller is starting to remind me of Troy "Wolverine Slayer" Smith. He looks kind of lost out there but just "makes plays" with his feet and, occasionally, his arm.
You don't trade the sanctity of that game for all eternity in return for one win.
I think just about everybody over-estimated Wisconsin after they embarrassed Nebraska. They are a decent football team, but they seem to have peaked early in the season while most everybody else is improving.
This will make our victory over Ohio all the sweeter. Hell, maybe we'll get to beat them twice in one year!
That Wisky played two night road games in tough environments and lost those on two hail mary type passes.
Definitely a tough row to hoe, those games could of went the other way for sure.
they played poorly enough to be on those situations in the first place? I was impressed at the two td's in a minute each, but both deep players allowing a receiver deep of them? Ended up they deserved to lose. Wasn't happy, but they were terrible at times.
They're not a national championship caliber team but they're still probably the "best" team in the conference. in games against the three next best teams in the league (MSU, Neb and the current level of OSU) they lost two of them in away games in the closest possible manner, while destroying the third.
In any neutral field playoff among B1G teams Wisco would justifiably still be the favorite. Maybe OSU at this point, but who knows with that team.
PSU has 3 tough games left. The easiest of which is OSU. If PSU wins that one game, they stand in fron ot OSU. If PSU losses to OSU, then they may take themselves out of it (because they will likely then lose the other two as well).
PSU is as legitimate as UM RIGHT NOW.
SO...unsurprisingly, it is PSU that stands in front of OSU and the B10 championship game.
If tsio loses 1 more then even Wisconsin is ahead of them and ...so actually No they are not "poised" to win their division. They DO NOT control their own destiny.
I was thinking this last night. How sucky is our conference this year, if a team that got pummeled by MIAMI will be in the conference championship? Penn State, for all that is said about them, only lost to Bama...a respectable loss.
I still think Penn State beats OSU, and will clear this up. They will not let them run on them.
is not the same Ohio team that is playing now. The only Big Ten school that got to see that team is MSU which is why they control their own destiny in the Legends.
Every time OSU went out and embarrassed itself earlier this season, I reminded myself that, by the time we play them, Dan Herron will have started six games this season and Braxton Miller will have ten games under his belt. "This is not that team. This is not that team. This is not that team."
Yesterday, if there was any wilting in OSU's confidence, it's no longer there. Miller is beginning to actually look good, good enough that if Tyrelle were still around, I'm not sure I'd not rather see him out there instead of Miller as the starting QB. Of course that defense is a beast; suddenly my concerns for THE GAME have risen several notches.
I think we all know in our hearts that OSU is going to smash Penn State.
PSU's record against tsio is not that bad.
against Penn State since PSU joined the B1G. At home, OSU is 8-1 against Penn State.
I'm curious though how many teams have that many wins against OSU since PSU joined the Big Ten. It's probably not all that many.
We have six, Illinois has four. I'm not about to go deeper because it would require looking up entire OSU seasons and that would make me physically ill.
In all seriousness, Miller looked a LOT faster than I'd seen him vs. MSU.
They still don't trust him throwing the ball, so stopping the run is going to be key. I love that that's our focus on defense, #1 stop the run. Helps us matchup in a big way.
Miller does look a little banged up, I'm not sure he makes it to the Michigan game, either that or he does a great Chris Perry impersonation.
With all that said, Nebraska still scares me more than Ohio State. I just feel Nebraska has more power on offense. Ohio State has Miller.
How awesome would it be for Michigan State to lose on the final day of the year...we beat OSU to get into the B1G Championship Game. Somehow OSU backs its way into the B1G Championship Game...and we beat them again.
They didn't look good early in the year but they have gotten much better since getting Boom Herron and and the O-line guy Adams. JT or no JT, they still have a roster stacked with JT's recruited talent. They are starting a freshman QB so inherently there will be mistakes, but it seems to me that as long as their coaches don't fuck it up they have the talent to win their division.
Howeva, I just don't see them coming in to the Big House and leaving with a win. Brady has stressed this game from day one, and after losing to MSU the players, especially the seniors, will play harder than you can imagine to win this rivalry game. Our team has looked good, and I think that they can beat almost anyone on a given day.
that took over a situation involving a lot of turmoil.
I think they're just starting to get their head out of their ass now and playing more to the level of collective talent on that team.
And as the OP noted, for all intents and purposes, Ohio controls their own destiny.
I hope they keep winning so Fickell stays....I am truly scared of the remote possibility of a power coach like Meyer and what he could accomplish at tOSU (unlikely to occur, but still)
What is urban's record against Michigan? Last I checked.....0-1 as a head coach.......
I said 'like' Meyer, which implies other coaches of his ilk.
But IF he came, the wall would go back up in Ohio
We're still at least a year away from being truly competitive with the best in the conference.
We do not have a shutdown defense against powerful teams, more seasoning is needed in certain areas where we're still playing young and inexperienced guys. Nor do we have a dominating O-line. Nor do we have a consistent passing game. Those are glaring weaknesses, and we've all seen them from time to time in games.
The MSU game proved once again that we can't get the offense going against a strong defense that loads the box and forces us to pass. OSU's talent level on defense is obvious. And Miller looks like a very dangerous QB when he is allowed to have a good day.
Unless we can open things up with a solid passing game, Nebraska and OSU will load the box and beat the living daylights out of our run game. It will take one of those teams having a very bad day, or a miraculously good day a la UTL, to be competitive in either of those games.
The safest bet is that we'll win at Iowa and Illinois, and finish 9-3. Maybe there'll be miracles in one of the other games. All things considered, however, an improvement to 9-3 would have to be considered hugely successful for Michigan this year.
Taylor Martinez scares me zero. I have never seen a more incompetent Big Ten passer. I think we'll do well against them. I'm much more worried about OSU. It's absurd that everyone got down on them after they stumbled early. Someone made a "rest of the season prediction" post essentially chalking OSU up as a gimmee win for us. I guarantee you that game will test us to the limit.
Martinez's passing doesn't worry me, but the Nebraska OL and Burkhead do. They're not afraid to run the option on 3rd and 10 because their blocking is so sound. They rolled up almost 200 rushing yards on Sparty yesterday. Our run defense is going to be severely tested from here on out.
I came away very impressed with the Ohio run defense, especially their linebackers getting to the outside on some of those tosses/sweeps (unlike Purdue yesterday). They do seem to be pretty vulnerable through the air though, Russell Wilson found some very big holes to take the lead late in the game. They still can't pass on offense, so it says something that they were able to run as well as they did against a Wisconsin defense knowing the run was coming. UM ends the streak if Denard is throwing accurately and our D can shut down the run, especially that Pistol option play. But let's beat Iowa, Illinois, and Nebraska first... GO BLUE
I'm not sure I'd say OSU can't throw. I was surprised by Miller's accuracy yesterday. He can, at the least, hit an open receiver, and since he'll be mostly facing zone coverage (the standard coverage against a mobile QB), he should have open guys most of the time. On passing downs, we may need to take chances with man coverage and force him to thread the needle.
Yesterday's Ohio vs Wisconsin game is HUGE.
I made the following website to compute who would finish as the champion of each divison (programmed in all the tie breakers, etc).
Check out this very reasonable scenario, if we don't take care of business against Ohio:
I missed it. How will Nebraska only have two losses if we beat them? Or if they beat us? Nebraska or Michigan must have two losses at the end of the season since we both have a loss now and we'll play each other.
That is assuming we beat Nebraska, which gives them their second loss. Their other one was Wisconsin.
Our second loss would be to Ohio.
Yes you can trust me and my website. Nothing bad there....nothing that could POSSIBLY go wrong if you simply click on this link I made. Just click here and all your questions wil be answered.I mean I've been on the board now for almost four days
Hey....you're not a Nigerian Prince or anything are you? I mean I trusted one of them once and I'm STILL waiting for the 18MM US dollars to get transferred into my account.....
I made something cool and actually joined the board so I could share it. If you don't want to play with it then don't.
It's just a website. It's not like it's asking you to download anything.
My own strategy was to reply, but tell them that I would not reveal any account information. I told them that they could, however, send the money in large bills to a P.O. Box which I would specify (i.e., a random one from the Liberty Street branch of the Post Office), and that I would then deposit the money less my administrative fee (50% was fair, I thought). I asked for their account information so that the money could be properly transferred.
Where is MSU's second loss coming from?
They pretty much have to lose to Iowa, in any scenario. It is important they lose a division game for tiebreaker purposes, so I suppose northwestern could also serve that purpose. Both games are on the road and state doesn't play well when they aren't at home.
Now that the real sparty has showed its ugly head, I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop 2 more games before the season is over. Personally I see them losing to Iowa and NU.
Considering how poorly their offense played for 58 minutes yesterday, I can't possibly see them winning out. Their defense created 4 turnovers that were only converted to 3 points.
Don't be fooled, Ohio has no offense. Braxton is ok at scrambling, bad at throwing and they rely heavily on the run game (aka Dan Herron). If you watched the game last night, every play was a hand off to herron. If you get pressure on Braxton and put up a big front to stop the run they'll break down and have nothing going for them except their defense. At the same time, Wisonsin wasn't playing their best last night. Their offense was struggling and their defense looked tired and sluggish. I think the B1G Championship game will be Michigan vs Penn State or Wisnonsin. (and of course we'll win that game)
I would feel better about all that if we could stop an elite OL and/or a scrambling QB. Ever since D McNabb at Syracuse, that has not been the case...
Did you see the throw from Braxton that won then the game? Much as I hate to say it, Braxton is going to be a very good QB once he gets over his freshmaness and flashes of it keep popping up this year.
Ya but his receiver was wide open and thats not going to happen very much. idk if you watched the game but when throwing the ball into any coverage the ball was normally short and off target. I have no doubt he will be a good qb, but as of now i see nothing that worries me.
if you don't see anything that worries you, then I commend you for your positivity, but you're missing things. Take ownership of your homerism and hate for OSU.
BUT, to the "heart"-like substance of your posts, Wisconsin knew that every play would be a handoff to herron or scramble, and they still gave up 250+ to Miller & Herron.
OSU can block. They can block the shit out of people. That O-Line is taking the team on their backs and challenging opponents right up front. Hat on a Hat. If you saw Miller's gamebreaking 44 yard td behind the 2 tight end behemoth set and didn't think, oh god, how will we defend that, then I don't know what to tell you... watch more football, maybe?
Miller still plays like a freshman, and it's clear he's still on a pretty tight leash, but when they take the thought out of their playcalling and give him simple reads and decisions, allowing him to play fast, they are a dangerous running team. Not to mention, sooner or later, someone is wide open downfield for the occasional - read, 1 per game - pass.
For now, let's focus on Iowa, Illinois and Nebraska. But when we get there, OSU is going to come at us like MSU did, and our players better have a response.
I enjoy seeing Mike Martin get a couple of sacks and a safety, but Mike, it's time to see that production against the elite teams - ala Brandon Graham, OSU '09.
I think the B1G Championship game will be Michigan vs
Even if M wins out (thereby eliminating Nebraska), MSU still has to lose one more conference game. They only have two meaningful games left, @Iowa and @Northwestern. They haven't played well on the road to date, so there's a chance, but I'm not sure if either of those teams has enough of a defense to beat them.
Anyhow, that's a long way of saying that M does have a shot, but only by going 11-1, and even then will need help.
EDIT: Sorry, I hadn't noticed your earlier comment where you say you think Sparty will lose both those games. Certainly if that were to happen, then yes, a 10-2 Michigan team wins the division by beating UNL.
As i stated in another comment now that the real sparty has shown up i see them losing to iowa and nu.
a 10-2 Michigan team? You must mean an 11-1 Michigan team.
in fact a 10-2 M team would win the division in that scenario as long as they beat Nebraska and Iowa loses another game.
It's clear that Penn State, not TSIO, is the favorite. Penn State would have to start losing a lot of games for that to happen.
PSU's remaining schedule is Nebraska, OSU and Wisconsin. It's not far fetched to see them losing all 3.
Penn State is also a giant enormous fraud. I've never seen a worse 8-1 team in my life.
Penn State struggled against Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, and Illinois. They played one good team, and lost.
and WTF is the B!0?
Ohio's State School is what he meant. Just forgot his '
I still can't tell if the B1G is really awful, or just really evenly matched. After yesterday's games, I can imagine so many scenarios unfolding.
I think it's evenly matched but there really aren't any elite teams.
Look at out of conference (ooc) wins: best are Ill over ASU, barely, Neb over Wash, eventually, & UM over ND, in a miracle. Supposedly top teams losses, handled by, very mediocre teams Miami & ND, & probably a pile of even more embarrassing losses across rest of teams. Conference is awful, I think. Shuddering to think of bowls, too, because I'm sick of conference getting swamped on big stage & being laughing stock
brutus will lose another big ten game when we kick their asses in november go blue
Penn State can only drop one game(Nebraska only) if we are not considering "The Game" at the end of the season. They have a tough schedule ahead, but their defense should keep them in games even with that crappy offense.
Perhaps we should beat Iowa and Illinois before planning the Big Ten Championship Victory party.
all posters who put that damn stupid "t" in front of osu.
We can sort out the standings after that.....
2 observations of OSU:
(1) How can a team that really plays tough, sound football suddenly have such gaping holes exploited in the 4th Q (twice, now)? It's bizarre. They can totally shut down the other team, and then on one drive they turn into UM10 Free Touchdown factory...
(2) I'm both concerned by and in awe of their twins right, double tight-end left formation with the pistol. When they lined up like that and absolutely blew wisconsin off the ball, allowing Miller to run right through the left side, I was impressed. That's what you do with a spread n shred QB and a fat-ass pro-style line. No wonder they run the ball 90 percent of the time.
They've been talking about this on local radio since Ohio beat Illinois. Does anyone know if a post season ban is still on the table for this season? I've been wondering if Ohio's resurgence will have the side effect of forcing the NCAA to make a ruling on their violations. I think Emmert was hoping they would slide quietly into the night this season so he could drag out the ruling long enough for everyone to forget about the Tat 5.
OSU still has two conference losses. They have to run the table to win that division, and they need for Penn State to lose one additional game.
As well as being poised to win the division, Big Ten Blog has them poised to the TaxSlayer.com Gator Bowl! That wins for the most horrible name for a bowl game, evar.