I unfortunately have been ill lately and havent been able to follow this story all that well, but wanted to get the feel from some people on if they believe this is going to bring up even more trouble? I would imagine that he will change this whole investigation and the NCAA will now uncover all the "extras" that OSU players have been receiving for years. Anyways I just wanted to see what the general thought was about all of this. Thanks for any feed back Go Blue!
Does Sarniak now totally change the OSU investigation?
Paging all MGoLawyers. Repeat, paging all MGoLawyers.
Haha...Seriously though, it can't be good for Mr. Tressel for this booster to be linked to the case. We all know the horror stories about OSU's overly enthusiastic boosters and what they have allegedly done throughout the Tressel era, and earlier.
But we must always keep a reasonable doubt in our minds at all times when examining the facts of Tatgate. Let us not be forced to eat our words later down the road.
Just how they describe Sarniak in the article make it sound like he was awfully close to Pryor. Especially how they said he has been a major influence in his life, including his recruitment. Just all seems kind of fishy, and then for Tressel to relinquish this information to no one else (as far as we know) just seems down right odd. You would have to think as this investigation continues this web will continue to grow and grow. But who knows, I was just surprised to see someone else up this late.
Tressel is done. It's just a matter of when. If it is a quick investigation, he likely get's a year suspension or worse and the program will get nailed with some sort of sanction that will make keeping him too detrimental.
If it is a long investigation, that is likely worse. That means the NCAA is looking closely at the booster connections we have all heard rumored about, which has been the driving force behind the Tressel victory machine all these years. So when that report comes out, maybe years down the road, it will be even worse.
I seriously think Ohio State is better off with the long drawn out scenerio. It will allow them to act like everything is cool. Their fans can be so lacking in perspective, that they can wrack up a few more good seasons before their shady program gets barbecued to a crisp. Finally.
Message to Michigan fans: Don't feel guilty while this all goes down. Also stop feeling like Michigan can only gain some sort of legitimacy in this rivalry by beating them in full Sweater Vest mode. It is very likely that Ohio State built this juggernaut using shady means in acquiring and making eligible star players that should never have seen the field. How legitimate is that?
It would probably be more analogous to Reggie Bush and USC, unless Ohioi State makes a bonehead move and hires a Ron Prince or something. #RP4OSU
"Message to Michigan fans: Don't feel guilty while this all goes down. Also stop feeling like Michigan can only gain some sort of legitimacy in this rivalry by beating them in full Sweater Vest mode. It is very likely that Ohio State built this juggernaut using shady means in acquiring and making eligible star players that should never have seen the field. How legitimate is that?"
Well stated, Nate. Not that anyone cares what I think, but I couldn't agree more with this take. I don't believe for a second that U-M and OSU have been competing on a level playing field for going on close to ten years.
I think it only changes the investigation significantly, if they can prove that Sarniak was a booster. As far as the article goes, he was only a mentor and family friend to Pryor. I'm not sure, but I think that a family friend of an athlete can give gifts to that athlete, as long as they're not a booster to the program.
I think it will slightly change the investigation because it's further proof that, regardless of Tressel's lame excuses, Tressel did understand there was not any reason for confidentiality.
This won't have the same effect that Ed Martin had on our basketball program. That slide was extended, partially because of the federal probe, but mostly because of bad decisions (read Brian Ellerbe).
The one detail that I've read about lately that intrigues me is the idea that they may receive additional punishment because they're a repeat offender. Because they're almost 5 years from the basketball violations and because they're flippin' Ohio State, it may not matter, but it does add a nice twist.
If they can figure that boosters were gifting sarniak through his business that recently expanded in Columbus and then he was gifting TP, does that do anything for you? I am sure they wil find that if they look.
I had read on here that Sarniak's business "blew up" after Pryor signed w/OSU. Although I can make the assumptions, just like everyone else, I didn't know that it had actually blown up IN Columbus. I thought it was blowing up in western PA. The NCAA could definitely look into that. I'm afraid that they're not that interested in digging too deep. Hopefully, they will, though.
@ Tater: I think (definitely not sure) Ed Martin became an official booster to Michigan basketball when they began leaving game tickets for him. Can anyone clarify that?
Ed Martin was a "family friend" to a lot of inner-city Detroit players. I still don't know how Iowa and Bill Jones escaped scrutiny. By the NCAA's definition of Martin as a "Michigan booster," even though he wasn't anything close, Sarniak has to count as a TSIO booster.
If the NCAA should have been "afraid" of any program, it would be USC, but USC got reaonably fair sanctions. I think TSIO may be hurting big time soon. I just hope they can't convince Urban Meyer to "unretire." I could stand seeing them hire Saint Dantonio, though.
I'd almost like to see Dantonio end up there. It would push my hatred of them to new and exciting heights previously unimagined.
Double whammy. Spatans sadness plus a real face of evil for OSU.
...happens when MSU rehires John L. Smith as Dantonio's replacement.
Or when Izzo resigns as basketball coach to coach football instead. They'll have a decided schematic advantage when Izzo hires Steve Mariucci for his OC.
Following the lead from their hockey team, the AD will hire the Sports Information Director from some obscure D-III conference to be their next head football coach.
It won't be Dantonio. Too many off-field issues. If, and I think this is still a big if at this point, Tressel does get fired before the season, I think Fickell will take over. If it happens after the season, it'll be Fickell, Daryl Hazell, or maybe Bo Pellini.
The next guy will be the scap goat for the probation/sanctions. It won't be a long term guy so I'm thinking your DC, he almost at the end of his road anyway. After the storm then Fickell/Hazell if he goes out and does well at another lower level school/Kent ST. I don't think your going to get Pellini/Meyer/BIG COACH duing a time of sanctions, "What? OSU has recruiting bans, Bowl bans....Sign me up." Not happing my friend.
I don't know, Pelini might be willing to take it. He's from Ohio, played at OSU, and he's said before that he'd like a chance to coach the Buckeyes. Even if there is a bowl ban or scholarship reduction, I think OSU will be OK. USC isn't hurting too badly, and I can't imagine OSU getting the same sort of punishment as the Trojans.
I agree that you probably won't face the scholarship reductions, but I do think Tressel is going to have to leave one way or another.
The other point to mention about USC, though, is they haven't yet accepted those punishments. They've recruited a full class this year and are only going to take the brunt of their scholarship reductions after they're bowl-eligible again, assuming they lose their appeal. They're avoiding a lot of their recruiting problems by doing this.
I'd like to think OSU isn't that bad, but Gee/Smith definitely did not inspire much confidence in OSU at their press conference, IMO.
I don't think I could take Dantonio being the coach there. I would be too angry. It would be like preparing for a drug trip: remove any sharp objects, make sure any valuables are safe, have someone come check on me in a few hours....
Or I could gain some perspective, but let's not kid ourselves... that ship sailed long, long ago.
He had a friend/guardian he lived with before even coming to Michigan. The NCAA still ruled him ineligible. Don't see how this can be any different. In fact, it could actually be worse for OSU since Sweater Vest decided to forward the e-mails to him.
Ken Gordon at the Dispatch has tweeted that this isn't news to the NCAA, and that Sarniak actually is a long time family friend-apparently he's been some sort of a father figure to TP since at least middle school. It would be hard to prove Sarniak is an OSU booster, given Sarniak's lack of OSU connections before Pryor came and the length of their relationship.
Assuming that OSU didn't completely fuck up and fail to inform the NCAA of the emails being forwarded, I don't see this changing anything. The Dispatch is pretty adamant that Smith, Gee and the NCAA have been aware of this since February, so I think it'll have a minor impact, at most.
RE: Ed Martin. Did Michigan self-report, or did the NCAA start investigating on their own after the FBI stuff came out?
To me...this is the difference between Pearl, Tressel, and what had gone down with Martin and Michigan. Ohio State self-reported these things...the Tat5 stuff and Tressel's cover-up. How do you punish beyond all reason a place that self-reports? If they do get huge punishment, what college in their right mind would ever self-report again? With Pearl, he was caught in a lie by the NCAA during their investigation and then 4 days later had another violation, which he inturn lied about. Tenn and Pearl didn't do any self-reporting...
Didn't Pearl also call recruits and ask them to lie if the NCAA interviewed them?
with our situation, the NCAA said something like they expected the schools to cooperate and self-report as the baseline. You're not rewarded for putting on a good investigation, but treated more harshly for not cooperating.
SEC school, in which case you can ignore requests for documents with impunity.
How that doesn't violate federal law is beyond me.
I'm assuming you're talking about Alabama redacting information on FOIA requests. I'd love to see a paper (or an Auburn booster) sue and make them reveal those numbers for the past decade.
I don't know if you can legitmately call it self-reporting when you report a violation after a member of the press has leaked it...
Unfortunately, they were already working with the NCAA on the investigation at the time the Yahoo! story came out. So, as far as the NCAA is concerned, it was self-reported. You and I and the rest of the world may not have known about it until the story broke - but the NCAA did.
I wish it weren't so, but it is.
Of course the *perception* of what went down may have some impact on what the NCAA ultimately does to them. Since I think they may be tiring of being the press' whipping boys. I think the NCAA prolly thought when they came down on SC that everyone would be happy and they could go back in their closet. Then Auburn happened, and Oregon, and OSU... Now they look like pansies again.
NCAA was aware of this in February, according to the report. NCAA investigators interviewed Tressel on 2/8, and the only thing the Yahoo! report did was move up sending the formal self-report letter by a few days.
Well if this isn't news to the NCAA, I don't know how it came from OSU. It was definitely not in their self-reporting letter, so either they found it after sending the letter (i.e. when the papers started making FOIA requests) or they were unaware.
Either way, it's looking like the media is doing this investigation for OSU.
This was not self reported. A media member informed OSU that he's letting a bomb go off and they reacted to it.
Color me skeptical. I'll believe the doom of Columbutt when I see it. I think the NCAA is just as scared of what they'll find out at OSU as the school is itself.
Likely the NCAA would like to see it all just go away with the current penalties in place. I doubt they can just ignore the evicence coming out, however, and it seems the media is unlikely to let the story die. After all it sells papers, or internet clicks, or whatever. Plus, hypocrisy is always a great story.
You sir are incorrect.
|2nd||Ohio State||$117,953,712||Big Ten|
|19th||University of Southern California||$76,409,919||Pac-10|
Granted these are athletic department revenue's for 2008 but I would not imagine a giant leap from these numbers. If anything, I would suggest a fall in USC's numbers due to sanctions and post-Carrol.
College football isn't. Conferences (or team like ND) negotiate football television contracts with the networks themselves, and negotiate merchandizing contracts with the apparel companies. And they don't share the revenue with the suits in Indy (that I know of, anyway).
About 90% of the NCAA's revenue comes from its contract with CBS for March Madness (it varies year to year but it's the primary source of income and will continue to be). The balance of revenue comes from other championship tournaments the NCAA puts on, etc. Here's this year's budget.
I know your point is that the NCAA won't be afraid to come after OSU given the investigation and sanctions with USC. I agree. But fear of financial repurcussions didn't play a part in the USC investigation. Nor will it here.
It's hard to look at his objectively, I'm/we're UM fans and are drinking in the tears of unfathomable sadness has just been a joy. OSU sold their soul when they hired Cheaty McSweater Vest, he was dirty since YSU when he was the AD/HC with a dirty QB(cars/$$$). The school gets busted the year he leaves, followed by MoC(Cars/$$$), Hawk($$$), T.Smith($$$), Pittmans Tweets about his Tats, TP (Cars/$$$/TATS there's more smoke but you get it), a true Snake Oil Salesman, wears a Vest and the call him a "Senator" (No politics but this should have been the first clue...Senator).
What I don't get is this Shitshow has to go deeper, I bet he DID tell the AD and Compliance department and they helped cover it up. What I don't get is why not the AD or the "Rouge" compliance guy fall on the sword? Why Tressel? If I was a Buckeye I'd rather have Smith under fire and not Tressel.
Sorry for the ramblings it would be nice to get an unbiased perspective and not UM's "BURN BABY BURN" or OSU's ....
If they covered it up to start with, why self-report in January/February when their attorney found the emails? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of a coverup?
Also, why do people keep claiming that AJ Hawk was dirty? I keep seeing it on mgoblog, but I've never seen any accusations elsewhere.
What I'm trying to say is why not set a guy up. USC had a assistant coach take a fall about withholding information, Pete Carroll had no idea what was going on at USC (sarcasm), IF OSU is in the business of "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil." Why not spin it and protect Tressel? I know he said it was him but the AD cut him off before he could answer when asked if he forwarded the E-mails. This is where I think Tressel DID forward the E-mails to others not just TP's Sugar Daddy.
forwarded the emails, there are electronic footprints to prove where he sent them. (and from what we read, he sent them to Sarniak.) if he didn't, there won't be any evidence they were forwarded. it might be hard to hang this on an assistant AD or other sacrificial lamb if there was no indication he ever saw the emails--and there is proof Tressel sent them to Sarniak. and just maybe no one was willing to take the ethical hit if he did nothing wrong. or maybe the powers that be figured Tressel can survive this.
I imagine that if it is just the coach, then only the coach will be punished, but if he had sent the stuff to the Compliance dept or the AD...then it becomes a lack of instutional control and the school gets punished.
this is what i believe too - that the admin did get the e-mails and sat on them (or covered them up). this is why tressel has to be the sacrificial lamb - to avoid the big ban hammer for lack of institutional control.
osu has to say that it was all tressel.
Thanks, this make sense. Just trying to look at it from the OSU side...excuse me now I have to shower with a Brillo Pad.
but I think some of the ncaa violations at YSU were because Tressell/YSU failed to properly investigate possible violations - the same thing that Tressell did with the Tat5 incident.
I think this is true.
I remember reading a quote from the YSU QB where he said he went to Tressel after he knew he had been caught and wanted to talk with Tress about the situation, and Tressel said something along the lines of, "Stop. I don't want to know what you know." So it was less of Tressel actively breaking the rules, and more of a "turning a blind eye" situation.
Here is the quote from the article:
<blockquote>Later that year, Isaac called Tressel. At the time, Isaac was under investigation by the FBI for tampering with the lone juror who had refused to convict Monus in his first corporate fraud trial. Facing 17 years in prison unless he squealed on Monus, his sugar daddy, Isaac wanted Tressel's advice.
"This is what I know ... " Isaac told Tressel.
His mentor, as Isaac describes Tressel, cut him off before details flowed.
"I don't want to know what you know," Tressel said. "Just tell them the truth."</blockquote>
Edit: HTML Fail
I have a question. Is there currently an ongoing NCAA investigation at all? I have heard or read nothing indicating the NCAA is doing anything beyond what's already been self reported and self punished. And that the only "investigation" is taking place in the media.
Am I wrong? (Kinda hope so)
NCAA investigators interviewed Tressel in February as soon as OSU made an initial report. I'm not sure whether the investigation is ongoing or whether they're evaluating sanctions at this point.
Way I see it, best-case scenario (as in, OSU gets off lightest) is that the email to Sarniak shows that Tressel undertook a plan to cover everything up as best he could - from last April all the way up to that farce of a press conference and beyond. That's a minimum. The email to Sarniak, if nothing else, is clear proof that Tressel is a serial liar and was still doing so at the press conference when he pulled that lame-ass and obviously false "confidentiality" excuse.
Armageddon scenario is that the NCAA pulls the Sarniak string and the whole sweater vest unravels, but that's really just saying "you never know." Because truthfully, you don't. But whatever happens will probably be a lot closer to the first paragraph than the second.
After getting away with Clarett, I'm still trying to hold back and take a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to Ohio State. Getting away with the whole Clarett thing still boggles my mind to this day, and no one will ever convince me that he wasn't paid off to keep his mouth shut after the story broke.
If the NCAA lets them skate this with barely any punishment above the self imposed sanctions, it will be the biggest in your face OSU is too big to fail and we don't give a shit by the NCAA that I've ever witnessed, which they pretty much already accomplished by letting them play in the Sugar Bowl to begin with. With Cam Newton there was an ignorance plea, deniability and zero paper trail (apparently), there is none of that in this case.
How could they find nothing fishy about a car dealership loaning a Denali to an unemployed kid with no income source for a test drive? Not to mention the test drive being for 48 hours and involving out of state travel. I would need proof of one incident of that happening to a regular OSU students (non athlete) in the same financial siyuation. Otherwise it's an improper benefit to an athlete.
He did make a statement. It sounded a lot like Gee, but it was a statement. I don't have the text with me but the effect was that they will not consider suspending Tressel like the SEC did with Pearl.
It's a little disappointing that the Big Ten is giving up the - for lack of a better phrase - moral high ground on situations like this, especially to the SEC.
I wouldn't expect Delany to say anything different.
If he could sweep this whole mess under the rug for OSU, he would.
I like to think that the Clarett situation was one of the last see-no-evil incidents that the NCAA allowed, and the publicity from that was one of the links in the chain of events that caused them to actually punish USC with something in the vicinity of what they deserved. The NCAA does seem to be looking into things a little more harshly these days, although I certainly can't blame anyone for believing that was a one-time thing and they'll go back to the see-no-evil days with this one. It's why I'm limiting myself to a few chuckles about the situation for now. At the end of the day I really do think the NCAA will come down hard(ish) and that Tressel has coached his last game at OSU. But I'm not counting my chickens either.
he was a friend of pryor's during and prior to his recruitment, which if i recall correctly means he is a family friend, and pryor can accept gifts from him
seems to be in the same vein as jalen knowing ed martin throughout his h.s. days
and we all know how the Jalen/Martin relationship ultimately affected Michigan.
I can't say I want to see the same thing happen to Tressel. I'd much rather try to convince the NCAA to let him stay so we can pound his ass into the ground for a few years.
werewere lkjlkj . ;lkjlWe don't have all of the facts. We don't know exactly what the contents of the communications between Tressel and Sarniak were. We can't even be 100% sure that there were any communications, as the media hasn't seen the alleged emails.
More importantly, I think, we don't know what Tressel's communications with the five players were. The players may have said things to Tressel that reasonably changed his perception of the situation.
Disclaimer: I'm not arguing for the justice or likelihood of any particular outcome here. I'm just saying that we don't know everything.
that occasionally goes to games and I get a letter once a year telling me that I am a booster. In this letter, it details what actions to avoid so that I don't violate NCAA regulations. If I'm a booster, then Sarniak has to be.
The University of Michigan did not self-report any of the violations for basketball. They sat on them for quite a while and denied any wrongdoing for much of the time that it was known that Ed Martin was being investigated by the FBI. This put a dark cloud over AA and other coaches used this to woo recruits away from Michigan. This was another factor in the downfall of Michigan basketball.
Even if they rule that Sarniak was a friend of the family like Jalen with Ed Martin, there are limits on what friends can give to athletes. They can't just do anything they want, because they've been friends for a while.
Or do you get those letters just because you buy the occasional game ticket?
I'm not a season ticket holder. I think I get the letter, because I'm registered at mgoblue.com and occasionally buy tickets through the website. I was shocked the first time I got that letter, but I guess Michigan was just doing everything they could to make sure no one mistakenly violates NCAA rules.
I've bought tickets from mgoblue but I am not a site member. I've never received a letter like that. I wonder if being a site member is the difference.
I get all kinds of emails with information and sweet deals.
This whole story about this advisor to Pryor just reinforces one of RR's biggest blunders as head coach at Michigan. To put all your eggs into getting this kid and having no real back up plan for QB in the first year was a huge mistake. The more that comes out, Pryor was not worth the trouble.
I also find it interesting that RR comes out to say Tressel was NOT one of the guys who negatively recruited against him. Why bother saying that? You just spent 3 years of your life trying to absorb a culture that hates Ohio State, and then you come out and make a weak attempt at defending their crooked coach. It's fine if you just sit there and say nothing at all. You look a little bit like a whiner if you come out and say something to the effect of "See what I was up against while I was at Michigan?!?! How could I beat cheaters?". The thing you don't do is defend this prick you'r esupposed to hate. Clearly RR never intended to adopt any of Michigan culture becuase he forgot it all in an instant. Wrong man for the job.
Your argument doesn't deserve a full rebuttal, since it's not even really an argument, just a dumb comment, but I thought I would share this little tidbit with you:
"I've known Jim Tressel a long time, he's a quality guy."
- Brady Hoke
OMG HE SUPPORTZ TRESSEL HE'S OSU INFULTRATER NOT MICHIGAN MAN.
Please make a reasonable statement next time you comment; coaches always support other coaches. Please give me an example of one time Hoke, RR, Carr, Mo or Bo have said anything other than, "he's a good guy"; "he doesn't negatively recruit, he's a classy guy" or something similar.
Bo and Woody thought of each other as family...Rodriguez was classy and (presumably) honest in what he said.
Definitely; Bo went down to Toledo to try to get Woody to apologize in an effort to save his job. Imagine what people like the one who made the first comment would say about Bo for that.
Bo not a Michigan Man because he attempted to save Woody's job? Imagine the comments if RR tried to save Tressel's job after going 5-4-1 against him.
Bo's record against Woody would have been 6-3-1 had the Mike Lantry field goal been called correctly in 74. But you're right. He did try to help Woody save his job and he defended him the rest of his life. He blamed Woody punching the Clemson player mostly on his blood sugar being out of whack. And he laughed off all the times Woody acted like a maniac throwing sideline markers and punching ABC TV cameras. Bo was absolutely crushed when OSU finally fired him.
We need Ohio State as much as they need us. Bo needed Woody, Woody needed Bo. They were different, but the same.
In this situation though, they just sold their souls to the devil by hiring Tressel. And that payment has come due.