Before today I thought it was a great chance that he would be gone...
Does this performance against Ohio save Borges and Funk?
Borges? No. Hell no. God no. Please no.
I think another performance like this in the bowl game can.
We'll see how well the team plays with a month to prepare. The offensive line played well above what we've seen all season, and in general the offense executed well.
I haven't really been on the fire Borges bandwagon but I've kind of been leaning towards us needing to make a change after the season but I wanted to see the season play out first before making a final judgement. I was still on the fence about RR right before his last bowl game here, and after that game I was ready for a change. I think that's the same stance I'm taking with Borges. I do think the more our line gets settled in and the other backs get more comfortable in the system then games like this will become more of the norm than what we've seen previously this year.
I live on Lansing. Last year, the MSU fans were fed-up with their team. And again this year, when I went to an early season MSU game the fans were down on the team (booing, calling radio shows, etc.). They are obviously happy now!
Last year, MSU averaged 19 pts on offense and gave up an average of 16 pts. on defense. They were 6-6 going into a bowl game. Michigan, by comparison in 2013 is averaging 34 points on offense and giving up 32 points on defense. We have a 7-5 record. We are actually a better offensive team and a worse defensive team than MSU. But all the fuss has been about the offense!
Clearly, consistency in coaching on both sides of the ball can make a difference as MSU has shown by developing lower rated talent.
Our future talent is great, but we We have been an INCONSISTENT TEAM this year. I hope another year of consistent coaching helps us to grow our talent and become a much improved team next year!
I still wonder if it is Hoke forcing the stagnant Offense and not Borges.
You can't tell me they put in all those plays we saw this week. It's like they had them practiced and ready to go all year long, but hoke would not let them run them because it went against his "philosophy".
I thought that during the Minnesota and PSU stretch of games. Something about the Minnesota game was very uncharacteristic of a Borges offense, and because it worked they carried it over to the PSU game and it killed us. We've been digging out of hole ever since.
Honestly I wonder if some of the insistence on regularly running the ball and playing towards some of our weaknesses is part of what helped the offensive line develop into what they were today.
Um, no. Just no.
absolutely NOT...he HAS to go
Consider it done.
No. If anything it is more of an indictment. Because now the talent appears there and he limited what they were capable of.
And this again.
This is the offense we all expected at the beginning of the year: Gardner, Gallon, and Funchess, with Dileo making clutch plays and the running game being okay. The issue isn't that the offense can't deliver, it's that it can't deliver consistently.
This was the best offensive performance in 100 years against OSU...and that was your expectation all the time? You thought this was the best offense in Michigan history? We were going to get 600 yards against good teams, presumably more against bad teams, maybe break the all-time record for yards in a season by an FBS team?
But there was a lot of hype around Devin Gardner, and people were legitimately worried that he would do so well that he would go pro at the end of this year. His 2012 numbers projected over a whole season were lights out. And he was amazing in the Notre Dame game, so we were expecting a high level of production from him and the offense this year even if the OL had some problems.
I mean, this was Brian's recap from the season preview:
So: I believe in Gardner, and Toussaint, and that the overall blocking will be improved not only by the new guys on the line but also the maturation of the new generation of blocky/catchy guys. I think Al Borges will be much better equipped to take advantage of Gardner's skills than Denard's, and I can't really find a spot on the offense that I think will be meaningfully worse than last year
Bingo. Where was this the entire 2nd half of the year. I am ok with 1 or 2 bad games by the offense but we had a series of many and some of them were historically bad. Such as last week and the 130 yards or whatever the entire game against a good - not great - Iowa D.
My mom was watching today and said "Al why couldnt you do this the whole year ya goon?"
didn't say goon.
I think this is comparable to DeBord 2007. At this point, Borges has had a revelation and gets it now. The O-line looked solid (keeping it simple worked!), and the offense was clicking.
Of course, we will have to wait until the bowl game to see; Funk and Borges have one more evaluation to go through.
YES. I was thinking of that Capital One Bowl as this was happening. Pulling out all the stops and moving up and down the field was great, but the season would have been a lot less painful if they didn't wait until they had nothing to lose to do it.
performance today actually underscored how bad the rest of the year was. If the offense could perform this well, why did it not do so the rest of the year against worse teams? This to me shows that Borges only shows up when he knows his job is on the line, which is a bad sign.
Another loss to Ohio..12 of 14yrs ..I guess this has become acceptable
Average Recruting Stars per Rivals
We're paying for 2010 & 2011 right now. You can't blame Hoke for 2001-2010 and Hoke is hampered by the recruiting at the end of the RichRod era.
But the numbers are an even bigger problem than the average quality of the recruits. The official roster at mgoblue.com:
- 16 seniors
- 16 juniors
- 23 sophomores
- 59 freshmen (23 are redshirts)
How does that happen? It's like a neutron bomb went off on the upperclass end of the roster. Or maybe we self-imposed a 15-scholarship penalty on ourselves three years ago.
This is what I never understood. It's not like we had our entire Junior and Senior players get drafted. Where did they go? I don't remember a lot of attrition when Hoke came in. Not at least like I remember hearing when RR came in.
I went back through the recruting lists to refresh my memory. There wasn't the immediate attrition, but a lot of guys left when they were passed on the depth chart by younger players, sometimes even by walkons, and they realized they'd never see the field here and decided to transfer.
There's always a little of that but it's not usually half of a recruiting class.
So I take back what I said--except for the offensive line, it really was quality and not quantity.
Yep. Young teams never grow and get better over the course of a year. With that, Al still needs to go.
We had 158 yards total offense against Iowa just one week ago.
We had 603 yards total offense against Ohio State this week.
My, oh my ... they grew and got better in a damn hurry.
Yes they did.
For some reason when people hear "execution" they lose it, but that was obviously the difference. You can't develop talent in a week, and while I preferred our play-calling this week, it wasn't as different as some people are implying. For whatever reason, our offense executed much better this week than in recent weeks. That's true of Gardner, the O line, the non-OL blocking, and on and on.
To me, what to think about Borges (and Fuck, Jackson, etc.) depends on how you attribute the very uneven offensive execution throughout the season. In general, I think getting guys to execute is a big part of coaches' jobs. I also think that young players play like young players at times, and that's really hard to avoid.
I'm genuinely undecided at this point. With the talent that we have growing up and coming in, I don't have any doubt that our offense will improve markedly if we keep the same coaches. I also think there are better coaches out there than some of the guys we have. I'm interested to see what happens in the bowl game, and I don't think I'll be too upset no matter what happens.
We had trick plays, multiple quick throws, screens, and throwback screens. Execution was better but I thought we did a lot of stuff that we haven't run often. When sparty and nebraska sacked us 8+ times each why didn't we have screens ready?
We actually hit a point in the game where I did not know what we were going to do next. The play calling helped the "execution".
We had trick plays, multiple quick throws, screens, and throwback screens. Execution was better but I thought we did a lot of stuff that we haven't run often. When sparty and nebraska sacked us 8+ times each why didn't we have screens ready?
I just noticed that I accidentally spelled Funk "F-u-c-k." I wonder how often he gets that. My fingers are very used to typing "fuck." Not so much with "funk."
Check the film on the 2pt. conv. 3 recievers on 5 DBs. That is not putting your kids in position to succeed. If they had converted, it would have been in spite of Borges, not because of him. And that is why he needs to go.
this was supposed to be the best defense we played all year (it wasn't, in fact it was one of the worst) and yet we played like we needed to to win. Especially with a bowl win, I wouldn;t be surprised if both are back next year. And, if the team plays like they did today, that would be a good thing (ducks)
This was at best the second-best defense we've faced all year. MSU is a better unit.
Iowa had a MUCH better front 7 than Ohio and while I think the Bucks have a better secondary, I think Iowa is still the better overall unit. Also ND has a better units in every phase of the Defense. Ohio is a good team that knows how to grit out a football game, they are very beatable.
One game does erase the many poor games. Our offense, our QB, and our o-line regressed much of the year. Borges has to answer to that. We are better off without him. Please bring in a new coordinator!
dropping weights on your feet, it is affecting your judgement.
Hoke needs to assess the whole season and total player development. We are still 7-5 with a poor running game and horrendous TFLs.
One game is only a piece of the evaluation and his take on UM's direction.
every week, maybe. Problem is he lays too many rotten eggs against very beatable teams. If Borges is as good an OC as he showed today, Michigan wouldn't be 7-5.
I still think Funk needs to go. And WEllman the S&C coach needs to go also. Michigan isn't strong enough.
The body of work over the last two seasons, more weight on this year, grossly outweighs one game against a rival. If this team is as good as they looked today, how does anyone explain Akron, Uconn, Nebraska, NW and Iowa??? In the ned, I'm tire of the Borges Funk debacle.
The team played well today, but Michigan still lost. Michigan is 7-5! That has to play a role.
It's a bad sign when they can't beat penn state, who has half a team
No, but only because they weren't in danger of losing their jobs in the first place.
Will depend on the bowl game. If Borges can prove he can put up points when the team is healthier and could work on some fundamentals in the bowl practices, he probably gets another year. If not, Brandon makes Hoke get rid of him.
Minor corrections, but you said Butt had 60 yards when he had over 80.
While the phantom Clark call was huge (I still wonder if the cameras missed something or the refs said the wrong number)....I was STUNNED that they upheld the Gardner fumble.
As for coaching changes....I just don't know. Does 41 points in your 5th loss to your big rival really gloss over the rest of the season?
This was one game where I can say that the refs stole it, those two calls were miserable and resulted in points for Ohio.
but I am pretty sure OSU didn't score on that drive.
They did not. I was keeping track with extreme prejudice toward anything that gave OSU points. I do think we were jobbed a couple times, one of which directly resulted in an OSU touchdown. They may have scored that one anyhow though, and in the end we had the ball with the chance to seal the win. It was a tough game, but I'm reasonably ok with this loss, even if we did let em off the hook.
"Easily can assume another loss"?
Stop being such a vagina! You are already conceding next year? That is not the attitude of a Michigan Man. There is a ton of time to let guys develop, make adjustments, plus injuries and other unforeseen stuff...don't give up on these guys so easy.
losing 2 of 3 so far to osu, easily can assume another loss at the shoe in 2014
A bunch of girls around here I swear. We were supposed to "easily lose" today, and in the end we controlled the end of the game and came up short. We should be improved next year, while they lose some very key pieces. So many chicken littles around here these days, and emos, damn emos.
Control what you can, and try to enjoy what you can't. Stop being so miserable all the damn time, it's an ugly look for the fanbase (this part is so much directed at you grovecity, but the board in total). Go Blue.
Bowl game with decide their fates
Normally, I would see this game as a commendable loss-- the players performed well and the game was quite fun.
However, the idea that this could be used as leverage to save Borges job fills me with hopelessness. It's unfortunate. I hope this was Borges swan song-- it would be a good one.
No on Borges, not sure about Funk.
The only possible exception I might make for Borges would be a fantastic bowl game. Otherwise, look at the season on the whole and he needs to pack his bags.
Today's game was great aside from the two point conversion attempt.
Borges is auditioning for another job with today's performance.
Funk is just done.
Mich already has someone in mind that they will go after...for OC. As for Funk, I say we replace him with a Mich legacy linemen or with a previous NFL linemen.
Any clues who Michigan has in mind for OC?
You can't just randomly drop something like that without a little more to substantiate it, otherwise it's just noise, and kind of a tease (in a bad way). Care to expound a bit?
Our offense works so much better when the other team doesn't know exactly what is coming on every play. For once I had no idea what play was coming next, And when OSU over-blitzed, we actually hit them with these amazing things called SCREEN PASSES.
I just want to know where the F*** this stuff was all year. Because I guarantee you the defenses that were embarassing our offense were not better than OSU.
I don't think Borges was ever gone. So I guess my answer is no.
And I don't have any opinion about the position coaches; I'd need to see practice to have one.
I still think Borges has to go. We could have been doing this all year long,
However, it may improve the job Borges gets after Michigan.
It almost certainly does. This was the absolute worst case for Michigan -- a loss that is still a job saver for the blithering incompetents on the offensive side of the ball.
Al lacks leadership quality. We're much better off without him.
This. I disagree with Al's play calls regularly, but I'm paid to be a banker, not an offensive coordinator.
The Clark penalty, while seemingly a terrible call, made no difference as we got them off the field shortly there after and it is doubtful that the extra time would have been used at the end of the half.
lost the team during the skid I don't see the point of firing him. And I frankly don't see why a guy who has produced a couple of record setting games this season be a target when the defense has had no such games and is given a pass.
one good game for the last five? If we had won it I wouldn't have fucking given one shit. But the fact is Borges is incompetent and the fact that he can pull one out of his ass every once in a while doesn't change that.
I put the decision oh Hoke. He has earned the right to make this decision after rebuilding from the RichRod mess.
If he gets rid of either, understandable, probably necessary after an INEXCUSABLE performance on both of their parts this year.
However, if Hoke chooses to keep them, especially Borges, well... I trust Hoke, but if Al keeps stinking up the joint, then I will call for HOKE for having the poor judgement to keep them.
Can Borges be a good OC for this team in the future and the OL and youth/ execution been a lot of the problem this year? Possibly.
Do I think it could also continue to be a clusterfuck with little development and predictable play calling? Possibly.
It's Hokes call. I'll be indifferent either way. Next year goes all on Hoke and I think he's earned the right to do what he thinks gives him the best chance of a successful future.
This is my feeling exactly. I have seen Borges offenses work really well at Auburn. But either way MANBALL is what Brady Hoke wants. The spread is not coming back while he is the coach. I happen to believe that Borges is more imaginitive than most MANBALL OC's. But either way, it's Hoke's decision and he is the one who should be accountable.
Without knowing what exactly the thoughts of Hoke (and perhaps to some extent, David Brandon) are, it would be impossible to say. If I had to guess at anything, I would say that there was perhaps a realizable chance that Al Borges was not in serious danger regardless, but then he still does have to navigate the yearly sit-down with his superiors and we could be shocked still (some by his retention, others by his removal). I guess sometimes I find these threads an odd exercise because we're not the ones who have the power to make the call.
Pretty damn amazing how a screen pass can change our offense. Not sure why the hell we had to save a basic play for the last game of the season. Does that answer your fricking question.
You do know that they ran screens before today, right?
And very few varieties. Really, all they ran was that throwback screen (which did work brilliantly today) and the one where Funchess comes across the field.
They barely ran bubble screens before today. They also had screens go to Gallon, Funchess, Toussaint, and Smith today.
That said, it felt like on many of the reverses, end arounds, etc. disaster was imminent but avoided by nice plays in space by Funchess, Gallon, etc.
Because for as bad as our line has performed this year it should have been about 10 times what the real number was.
Because for as bad as our line has performed this year it should have been about 10 times what the real number was.
It is the body of work that matters for his job security, and his body of work is poor. that is beyond question.
Trajectory does matter. We looked like there was actual improvement. First time all year.
Consistency is key, and Al Borges is the opposite of that. Everybody knew he had a game like this in him, the problem is everybody also knows he has about two handfuls of stinky farts as well.
Remember last year against South Carolina? This year against Notre Dame? Year 1 against OSU?
But for every one of those, he has games like the Penn State game, the Nebraska game, Iowa...
Borges needs to go. I think his fate was sealed going into this game. He's been a bad coordinator this season, but more importantly, I think he's lost his players. As someone above said, today tells me that he couldn't get them to play to their potential the last three months.
Really.?Tell me which of the players was "lost" today? They played their hearts out.
I think he's lost his ability to motivate and prepare his players. Based partly on insidery message board chatter, partly on what I see on the field. I don't think the guys respect Borges. They came to play today because it's The Game, but what about the rest of the season?
Oh how could you possibly have that insight?
Like I said, insidery message board chatter and just a sense from how players comport themselves and little snippets from press conferences. Just my sense of things. Got the same sense about RR and GERG by season three. Doesn't really come out until after the coach has moved on.
What did he do differently this game? I couldn't see too much schematically. I liked the fake bubble, fake draw throw wrinkle, but that was really all that was new. We added a few different looks of the throw back screen I guess. The difference was the players executed. I realize that word has become a running joke but, you know, it does have a pretty big impact on the game. We stayed in front of the sticks all day and it kept the defense from teeing up on us. The couple times we got behind, we got sacked.
Is Borges the answer long term? Is this game enough to save his job? I don't know, but I think this game does show that he's not the only problem and how much the players finally clicking does to improve the offensive output.
I also have to say it seemed to me like the OSU defense was less well-prepared, and a lot less aggressive, than the defenses we saw the previous 3 games. We didn't see a lot of those troublesome A-gap blitzes until the second half, and it seemed the Bucks were more fooled by the cute draws and throwbacks. But no question, the execution was better, the blocking was better, and Gardner looked like he'd been freed once again to be Sandlot Superstar.
The success running the ball and the resulting downs and distances had a lot to do with it. When it was 3rd and long, we still struggled with sacks. They did blitz often most of the second half before prevent mode kicked in. We picked them up pretty well for the most part, which always helps back them off.
They couldn't be very aggressive today, because of the play calling and the sequencing of the plays. It started right from the first series, and we kept them off balance. That's what we've been missing, and I can't see a good reason why.
I've thought quite a bit about this, and I think it comes down to Borges' meta-philosophy about offense. It appears to me that Borges highly values novelty in an offense - he tries to keep defenses guessing primarily through a bewildering variety of plays and formations. He wants defenses to have no idea what's coming next, or ability to recognize it when it gets there.
This is not the meta-philosophy behind most high-powered offenses, whether you're looking at Alabama, or Oregon, or most other offenses along that schematic continuum. These offenses try to establish certain base premises that the defenses must react to, then they counter the defensive reaction. The essence of these schemes is tactical adjustment, between plays, before plays (audibles), and even within plays (e.g. read option or zone blocking).
The problem with Borges' meta-philosophy, it seems to me, is that there are a limited number of plays one can teach a college offense to execute well within the alloted practice time (ask Mike Rosenberg). So Borges is really making a bet with the opposing defensive coordinator that he's got enough variety to keep his opponent guessing most of the time. He's won that bet often enough - the '11 and '13 OSU games, for instance - but he's lost perhaps even more often.
The Tactical Adjustment philosophy, it seems to me, is much more suited to building a body of knowledge over time, and thus reducing the variability in results. After several years of running the same basic scheme, you've seen almost everything a defense can throw at you. You've developed countermeasures for all those things, and have drilled your offense on those measures ever since they arrived on campus. You have a good chance of immediately recognizing and adjusting to anything a defense does. You have much less chance that the defense will easily recognize and stuff a few of your key plays, and leave you without easy countermeasures.
Anyway, that's my shorthand explanation as to why Borges seems totally lost one game, totally dominant the next: he's not humble enough to acknowledge the agency of the opposing defense in his own success or failure.
Comment of the day.
Do you ACTUALLY believe what you wrote is true?
Tell me what he did differently and why it made a difference.
the big difference today seemed to be they had success running the ball. I'm by no means an expert on football but when you have some success running the ball it opens up a lot of other things.
Exactly this. We'd get half a block here and a little more push there and all of a sudden the RBs are falling forward for 3 or 4 instead of 0. That made 2nd and 3rd down calls so much more manageable.
Yeah the problem is we got a lot of -2's instead of 0's in past games.
Seemed like he had a LOT more screens and quick passes built in. Used the pass to set up the run quite a bit. There have been elements of those things the last two weeks, but they were the base plays today.
Basically, today he did all the things that the fan base was clamoring for after the Nebraska debacle.
I thought the gameplay was similar last week. Last week we ran some option, screens and multiple play action passes on first down. Funchess' drops didn't hurt us in this game like it did last week. I don't think there's any question the players executed better this week. The line play was vastly improved.
I really didn't see that much difference as far as game planning goes. We tried the quick hitters and screens a lot the last few games. The biggest difference was we had long drives and favorable downs and distances that let Borges counter punch a lot more.
Falling foward for 3 or 4 yards instead of back for 0 or -1? thank Green and Smith for that. Two people who wouldn't be playing if Toussaint didn't get injured and showed what they could do because Al Borges is a lizard brain that likes to have one main back.
And the throw back screen they added should've been theere ALL DAMN YEAR. You can say "i geuss" that's a difference but why weren't these things apart of the dang system all year? It wasn't apart of the system until after Nebraska/Penn State and every cried about it.
They try this new screen pass system and short passes and it get's iffy results, then sure enough after 3 weeks of practice they get it and put up this performance. The problem is they should've been practicing this system ALL YEAR. It shouldn't have taken until THE GAME for us to be able to execute at this level. They chose to run a lizard brain offense for the majority of the season and that caused the lack of execution until this point.
Yes this gameplan wasn't very different from Iowa and we may have executed better, that's because lizard brain Al took until week 9 to implement a reasonable damn offense. That's indefensible and he needs to be gone. We need a person who can be ahead of the curve and have our guys ready by the start of the B1G conference games.
Toussaint ran pretty well today also, you know?
the game. The second he gets touched he goes down. It's almost instantaneous. He ran well when there was nothing near him. And that's it.
Green looked like shit before Iowa, because everyone looked like shit running behind that mess. How quickly we forget all the rumblings of "bust" prior to that.
That screen absolutely has been a part of the offense for the last three years. In fact, it even has its own tag here:
I certaintly wasn't calling him a bust. Everytime he had the ball I LOVED how he fell forward. So "others' may have said bust I was saying stud ever since I saw him carry. And if you wanna claim the screen and short passing game was in full affect during the shit shows that were penn state and msu go ahead.
Yeah screens were marginally apart of the system. But Mr. Lizard Brain loves reverting back to his bread-n-butter I-Formation down waster. One well called game does not excuse all of the many breakdowns in play calling this past season.
Whether or not you want Al Borges fired pretty much boils down to one thing. Do you or do you not tolerate epic failures -48. never forget.
Yo dude. did you really link to a tag last used in 2012!!! LMAO.
Logic must not be your strong suit. You claimed the throwback screen was new. I linked to a tag from 2012 to show that it's been around for a long time. I would have linked to the 2011 tag if I could find it.
Oh. To clarify I meant new this year. My concern is that it took us so long to run it this year. It boggles my mind he doesn't try to run it as part of the system until NW.
And don't come at my logic, and I won't come at yours. Cause I'm sure we are both really smart.
No. Michigan will never win the B1G losing two winnable games a season b/c of the OC.
arent u tired of seeing no pressure on the qb,sacks,and tfl. this is not michigan defense! i want pelini or muschamp if they get fired
scotty2 hotty.....are you talking about Borges? If not get off this thread.
scotty2 hotty.....are you talking about Borges? If not get off this thread.
The thread purity police have arrived.
Still don't understand how FSU is still far and away ahead of OSU. Both schedules are bad (best games against Clemson and Wisconsin, respectively). Next best team each played are bad (Miami or Iowa, I guess?). I would think that between today's game (beating michigan is much better than beating florida) and if they beat MSU that would give them a much better resume than FSU Can't see beating duke doing that much
That this Michigan team would have "beaten every other team in the B1G". That's an insult to a Michigan State team that pretty soundly dominated Michigan. Their defense may have had more answers
Agreed. I think Sparty and Wisky are the 2 best teams in the conference. Wisky would've beaten OSU at a neutral site.
That wiscy team getting dominated at home as we speak.
no, absolutely not. You need to examine the whole body of work. Because where has this playcalling been all year? sure it's nice when it shows up 1 or 2 times a year but where has it been the other 10 games? Borges still has to go
We played how we should have all year!
Depends whose call it was to go for 2.
If Lewan was serious, it was the seniors' call to go for it. Supposedly Hoke gave them the call.
Yes, that's the question; did this game Save Borges and Funk.....I hope not. It doesn't erase the enormous failure of the season. Michigan deserves better at those coaching spots
Hopefully the people in charge will look at the whole season (as opposed to just the last game). I think we can safely assume that will happen.
Let's look at some other (*bad*) games:
Akron, UConn, Penn State, MSU, Nebraska, Iowa
There were too many embarrassing outings. I don't think it's reasonable to blame everything on "youth" and "Gardner." (I'd give both low percentages, in fact.)
I have no idea and I really don't care anymore. What I will say to everyone wok sold their tickets: Screw You! Way to much red in the stands today. I am one of the biggest pessimists on the board and I have lost total faith in the direction of the program and I still dragged my ass to the game today.
No. Because for every game like this there will be 3 more like Iowa/Nebraska/PSU/UConn/Akron/OSU2012/ND2012, etc...
Going back to what the Ohio blogger wrote...
Do we think Luke Fickell will be back after a 1 point win against us?
Maybe, but probably shouldn't.
I would say this game only hurts him. Most of the second half went back to the same bs they've done all year. The problem with Borges is he doesn't realize this team isn't good enough to not have a gadgety playbook even against bad teams. This could cost us unnecessary losses every year. Once they have outstanding talent with experience under its belt the offense might be something else. Having said that, I hope Borges is fired next week. My heart cannot wait for the experience part to come on.
This confirms the crap production and play calls against the likes of Nebraska, Iowa, UConn, Akron, etc. was in large part a direct result of Al's stubbornness.
Anyone think Saban will make adjustments in the half or just keep doing what they have been?
Hecklinski for OC if Borgesis fired?
Does elevating Hecklinski to OC provide some semblence of consitency for the O system so the players do not have to start from scratch again?
If Hoke elevates him, I would think Hoke would insist on keeping the same system. I don't think it's ever been about Al's system; it's always been about the lousy illogical play calling. .
There are some insidery bitz on this. I don't know how I'd feel about Heck being promoted, but it would probably help maintain a sense of stability with the team.
but not the whole enchilada. None of it exonerates Borges.
The gameplan today was solid. That said. No it shouldn't.
I am glad to hear someone say something logical. The game plan today was fantastic. The offense and the play calling were more than good enough to win this game. I got so tired today every time a play didn't work. OMG, bad call. Borges is fat. Blahblahblah. The offense was terrible this year and holding Borges accountable is fair. But blaming him for the loss today is just being blind. They played their best game and came up just short against a better team. Saying all of that, I do believe that next year will be better, with or without Borges.
but it will probably buy Borges another year. Unfortunately, that probably means another 7-6 season at best, and then what? I just can't see us every beating OSU or MSU every again with Borges running the offense.
At best? What?
This shouldn't "validate" anything about "we should have been playing like this all year."
There were several moments this season where the miscues fell on the players, nullifying a playcaller's ability to get anything going. Borges can't pick up a blitizing linebacker.
There were also several moments this season where the miscues fell on the playcaller, thus not putting the players in the best position for success. Gardner can't audible into anything more than a few plays.
This was one of the few games we've had all year where both things came together.
No coaches are going anywhere. And the young players are going to be stronger and more experienced.
If anyone would know insane, it would be you. After all, it takes a special level of insanity to be an Al Borges apologist.
From everything we can determine as outsiders, Brandon, Hoke, and Borges have all bought into the same narrative: there is nothing wrong with our scheme, game planning, and play calling that better players, more development, and overall better execution won't fix. This game obviously helps reinforce that narrative, and thus has to reduce any (already slim, IMO) chance that Borges will go.
An equally interesting question is who would replace Borges. I'm 100% certain that we haven't seen the last of Mr. Hyde-Borges, and would love to see a dynamic new coordinator given the reins of a modern offense. But who's going to come work for a HC and AD apparently in thrall to antiquated MANBALL mythology?
I love this blog to death first and foremost. I am a avid reader. But there is one problem... some posters in here aren't real michigan fans... they are bandwagon fans... all I hear from all of you in here in this post about Borges in particular all you do from week to week is complain about EVERYTHING. there is a reason i hate being apart of this fan base.. and that is YOU EXPECT TO GO 11-1, 10-2, AND GOD FORBID 9-3 or worse. We had a down year... do you see the players crying about it... no they move forward from day to day... do you think the COACHES LISTEN TO YOU FANS who are a bunch of headhunters to have a coach fired over one bad year... RR was a coach that had to go. 3-9, 2-10 and by god 7-6 and all you panzies called for his head and got it.... Hoke was hired and went 11-2 his first year and the only thing that went through the roof was THE FANS EXPECTATIONS.... Dave Brandon has called you folks out on his blog. You know exactly who you are.... I know who you are and can start calling user names out on it. Are Real Michigan fans like myself are disappointed with the loss today... Yes we are... Are there things in which the team can improve on... Yes and I believe they will... But you bandwagon fans need to go... REAL MICHIGAN FANS STAND WITH THEIR TEAM THROUGH EVERYTHING. WE RIDE MAIZE AND BLUE TIL WE DIE.... If you bandwagon fans have a problem with anything I say please feel free to comment or please call me out... I'll be here don't you worry none.
UConn/Akron/Nebraska/PSU/Iowa. We lost Hand because of just a handful of those losses.
Most ppl you talk about have issue with Borges, who arguably single-handedly cost us the aforementioned games. All winnable. The offensive playcalling has been moronic at times thus year. This has nothing to do with youth or being on a bandwagon. Idiot. 11-2 was with RR's offense with a functional defense. Denard leaving (albeit having his own limitations) masked a lot of the rushing game weaknesses. If we want to compete with Ohio state and Bama we have to be maniacal in our approach to everything.
sorry for the downvote - it's a good thread, my downvote was my vote to your quesion. I guess I shouldn't have downvoted the thread, though.
But no. The answer is no.
One good game (or three) does not make his other shitty games disappear.
I have never seen an OC be so in consistent I don't know what the problem is I know OSU defense ain't that good but there not worse than NW or Nebraska. Honestly I don't know what I would do in this situation
Not even mad about this loss. There is no difference between an 8-4 or 7-5 Michigan, loved the aggressive call at the end of the game.
Still think Borges needs to go. He has screwed up too much. One good game but had an awful play call on the 2 pt conversion attempt. He needs to go. But I would understand if he stayed. At the very least hire a QB coach.
I think Al needs to go. He can't wait until The Game every time to call a decent game.
To be clear it is an interesting question.
I think that no. My fundamental question is where was this play calling the rest of the year? I think the coaches were phenomenal today with Al Borges leading the charge. It is one game where there have been an amazing amount of stinkers. It certainly makes it more of an open question and maybe more of a certainty if we had been 9-3 after today. We are 7-5 largely due to coaching decisions. This is probably a 9-3 team maybe 10-2 that far underperformed. It will be an interesting question and a huge risk since if we have a similar year next year Hoke is on the hot seat in 2015 almost despite any circumstances.
Today was still fantastic but it may be time for at least Borges to leave even though today was amazing despite the disappointing finish. Ultimately it is Hoke's call and could be the defining moment of his Michigan coaching career.
It will be an interesting next couple of days/weeks.
Borges was ever gone, personally. There was too much fumblery on the players all around...like 10 man football so to speak for plays upon plays. The entire team showed up to play today.
It's Hoke's call and unless someone works inside Ft. Schembechler we will never know until it's on a news wire.
Consider this, tho. If you were a HC and were going to ditch your OC don't you think you'd wait until after national signing day?.. After all all your offensive recruiting would/could be flushed.
Toussaint is a solid 3rd down screen option because he has good hands and can make the short open field cuts, but his running style could not succeed behind our line. It makes a big difference in the running game when the backs you play accelerate to the hole, keep their legs moving and drive through tackes versus stopping, dancing and falling backwards when hit. You can't get away with playing running back on your heels unless you are Barry Sanders. This was the pass blocking tactic for several five to seven sack games as well. Fred Jackson should be retire. Green and Smith were clearly better than Toussaint the second half of the season and gave us the best chance to win yet had far fewer carries/plays than Toussaint.
I hope it doesn't solidify his job. Although he called a better game today, where the hell were these types of game plans during the rest of the season? It's really disheartening that it takes all the way to the final game of the season to discover what works. It's time for an offensive change.
i see a lot of people happy about the game and the fact that the team never gave up but am i the only one just a little annoyed that they didnt play like this earlier in the season?
No, I am too. I hope Coach Hoke is mad enough about it to realize with a different OC, the whole season could have been different!! We shouldn't only play well against our rivals!
Where was this game planning all season long???
Look at his total body of work at Michigan. Fire Borges. Sidenote, I would be surprised if any coaches get fired.
The game doesn't save Funk & Borges . . . because they weren't going anywhere. Brandon and Hoke are 100% behind Borges and Funk. And that's all that matters. I don't see attendance dropping at games. I've said it in other posts, but things look bright for the offense.
- Gardner is now experienced, and Morris will have had 2 1/2 years to get things down;
- Receivers are improving. With Funchess and Chesson back, along with Darboh healed up, and Harris and Ways coming in, along with Campbell in 2015, we will have solid receivers;
- The offensive line is gradually getting older and better. The depth makes a difference, and we'll start to see this next year, especially on the interior line;
- Bunting comes in at TE, Butt has exploded, and the other 4 TE's on the team will only get better
- Green and Smith are solid at RB, Hayes and Johnson improve depth, and Damien Harris will be added to the ranks soon.
Coaching continuity is very, very important. The coaches get along so well as a team. Funk and Borges deserve to come back, and I'm so excited they will.
One last comment, and it has to do with how the team played today versus some other games. A young team improves much more over the course of a season. I'm sure the Mathlete could provide graphs, but the rawness and inexperience of Michigan goes a long way to explain why they played so much worse early in the season than they did today. Honestly, if the schedule was different, and Michigan played against Akron, Connecticut, MSU, Nebraska, Penn State or Iowa next week, I firmly believe Michigan would play them much, much tougher than happened in the first game.
We played Iowa a week ago. Can I have what you're sipping on?
Does it make anyone else sad that all of the talent we have an offense will be squandered by Borges and will result in a middling offensive unit ala 1999. That just doesn't feel fair to our recruits. All that talent, one maybe two good games. (One of them against Indiana)
thank God nobody nobody listens to you
I hope people aren't listening to people who see one good game and think "If only the season started here" ... then we'd be straight.
It's asinine to think that one more week was all the experience the line needed to be able to be functional up until this point. More logically it took 3/4 weeks to get this new screen using offense to work. But unluckily for us Borges tried this new offense at week 9 instead of during camp. So say hello to 7-5, and loss 9 in 10 years to Ohio. yaaaaayyy!!! .
pathetic. We've always had the talent... but unfortunately we've always had Borges :/
I agree that it's unlikely that Hoke would have replaced them absent Brandon putting his foot down. This game was redemptive in many ways for the program.
Whether a change will be made or not, there is reason for hope.
if this game gives Borges cred then who are we as a program? I'm not advocating firing Hoke but a change is needed when you don't go for a score with a minute remaining in the half and one time out...when you look at the season...when you look at what Borges did with Denard...when you look at the game last year. The body of work is not good enough nor is this season's trajectory.
Iowa?... was last week... what are you saying? SRK ... I respect you but not this.
If Brandon and Hoke stand by Borges and Funk then so be it. That would not be a good decision in my opinion. Red letter games. I would like Hoke and Brandon to walk the talk. This is Michigan for god's sake.
This reminds me so much of DeBord. Most of the season you are pissed at him for being an R-Tard with play calling. Then the last few games/bowl game happens and all of a sudden you think...."we can make this work next year!". Thus the endless cycle starts.
This blog has covered this over and over.....but I agree that he needs to go. Maybe Mattison can talk someone into making the move from NFL to Ann Arbor. Could Mattison be our best offensive weapon? Mind Blown....
Until the 2 point attempt. How on earth do you run the same formation out there after they call timeout to see what we're going to do? He's just got to go.
I guess I'll break it to everyone. They weren't in trouble in the first place, and the opinion of those here just don't matter. Fortuneately.
don't ... doesn't
Here is my bottom line: this game will be dissected a million times; why did Miller break loose so many times? Why did Furman get toasted deep so many times? Why did Al finally call a great game despite some execution issues (throw back to Devin was a TD for sure if they execute), blah blah blah - Al has to go, one game doesn't save the other games he has shown an utter lack of creativity or ability to adapt. He has to be the fall guy. He has to - even though I feel he called a fantastic game, I haven't forgotten all the other dismal games.
I think that performance cost him his job.
Oh, wait . . . you mean Borges. I thought you were talking about Mattison.
Mattison has definitely had some games where his defense was just flat out non-existent, Indiana and today for instance. That being said, I still think he's the guy for the job. It does seem a bit lopsided that we pile up on Borges for inconsistent offensive performances and give Mattison a pass for the same on defense. Fire everyone? No. The difference is Borges has been having this problem for 3 years now while Mattison has turned our defense into a respectable unit even though he's had very underwhelming and young talent to deal with in years past. If the defense doesn't get better next year, Mattison should and probably will be on the hot seat, but so will everyone if things don't improve considerably.
8 times outta 10 when our D is getting killed, its not that players are outta place its because they are in place an just not making plays. Im still puzzled why Gedeon (who played well), Furman and Avery got so much PT. Furman and Avery were huge liabilities and did no make one play when they had opportunities for plenty. Borges takes his beating for continuously running stupid uncreative plays that everyone sees coming and get stopped repeatedly.
. Gedeon is because James Boss III was hurt.
Furman was because Jarrod Wilson was hurt.
The offense was great today (I think just 2 punts, a failed 4th down conversion, and a 'fumble') and it's going to prove to save everyone's job for this season.
No one's getting fired. Sorry everyone
Linebacker Ryan Shazier said the Buckeyes had prepared for two conversion plays from Michigan and the Wolverines ran one of them.
We were outcoached on the 2 pt conversion attempt.
"Ohio State called timeout. The Buckeyes later said they were told by coaches to expect one of two plays. Cornerbacks coach Kerry Coombs went further, grabbing Powell and telling him: "They're running the 'angle' route."
Given what had happened earlier, all those trick plays and throwbacks and stuff that Michigan had not shown all season, Powell admitted, "The thought did cross my mind," that the Wolverines might go against the grain.
But Coombs was right. Powell was right there, ready to save the season – even if it won't hit home until much later."
Wetzel at Yahoo reporting the same thing: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brady-hoke-michigan-deserve-credit-004040879.html
I think Borges is gone. 7-5 isn't acceptable and neither is this loss. The fan base isn't horrified we lost to OSU at home, which is a terrible sign that mediocrity is setting in. Next year is going to be even tougher then this year.
If Hoke keeps Borges, Hoke could very well be gone after 2014 (or should be, with another failure of a season).
Unless you are satisfied with occasionally meeting expectations.
What did this game tell us? I'll answer that. Nothing we didn't already know.
Yes, Borges is capable of pulling one out of his ass from time to time. We saw that against Nebraska in '11 and the '13 Outback Bowl. Other than that his offense has been putrid, and as a game day play caller, he is an utter joke. Unfortunately, Hoke is putting all the eggs in the Borges basket. But the Borges basket couldn't hold a kitten. Don't be surprised if the bottom falls out next year.
Honestly I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, but Borges's record speaks for itself. A few outlier games doesn't change the trend we've seen.