Does our offense get any benefit from the experience of our defensive coaching staff?

Submitted by iawolve on

I could be really offbase, but I always felt one of the side benefits of having a strong defensive coaching staff is that it would actually make our offense better by making the offense be more innovative. Combined with the fact that our entire staff is apparently very close, I assumed this interaction would happen naturally. 

For example- Borges decides to incorporate unbalanced lines. During practice or in planning meetings Mattison shows how he would attack the particular formation and where he would be weak against certain plays. Alternatively, he talks to one of the many people in the coaching community about defending the formation to give Al additional inputs to consider so we are smart about what we are doing. During the bye week we test the scenarios against certain alignments to see what works and how we will need to adjust playcalling. 

Does this sort of interaction not actually happen? I don't know if it is unrealistic to expect this to occur since Mattison has to manage his own unit and I am intersted in feedback from others on the board.  It just seems like such a simple way of getting the most out of all your assets on the team. 

 

 

The2nd_JEH

October 15th, 2013 at 2:39 PM ^

Obviously not.

And I'm not being  smart ass either, it obviously doesn't help when your OC is atrocious and your HC is too stubborn to change anything about it.

MI Expat NY

October 15th, 2013 at 2:57 PM ^

I think as a practical matter, once you enter the season, defensive and offensive staffs aren't actively looking to help each other out.  They're too concerned with preparing their own side of the ball to solve the other side's problems.  You may have coaches bouncing questions off each other.  Along the lines of: "hey, OPPONENT runs a blitz scheme similar to yours, what's your greatest fear when you run the blitz against this particular formation."  But in terms of actually causing each other to be innovative, I don't see much correlation.  Your OC and DC aren't preparing to go against each other, so their respective schemes really don't matter too much to each other.  

crum

October 15th, 2013 at 3:02 PM ^

Al Borges could walk into a wall 35 times and then go over to the podium for his presser and say that execution is the reason he couldnt get to his cupcake. It will have nothing to do with the fact you cant walk through a wall.

 

so to answer your question, no, having a good defense isnt helping us, because what is happening is Al Borges.

I Have A Gnarly Face

October 15th, 2013 at 3:09 PM ^

So who can M get if Borges is fired? I don't know many offensive coordinators that are up and coming and willing to leave their current job for M.

DonAZ

October 15th, 2013 at 3:23 PM ^

There must be some up-and-coming OC from a mid-level school out there.  But I'm not sure that's a guarantee of success ... Brent Pease went from Boise State to Florida and it's not like he's burning up the SEC. 

The shame of all this is Borges could probably do really well if he'd allow himself the humility to accept where his approaches aren't working.  He's capable of calling a good game (Notre Dame this year), but for reasons unclear he's decided to retrench.

ijohnb

October 15th, 2013 at 3:30 PM ^

like that and it does not really matter.  The phrase "anybody but him" comes to mind.  I really don't think I have seen very many games in which one particular coach performed as badly as Borges did on Saturday.  If he was working the gas station cash register, that was the equivalent of leaving the store with the register open to go have a smoke when there is a shady dude looking at the energy drinks that steals all the money.  I think Michigan has to win the Legends division this year for Borges to keep his job.  He may start to effect recruiting negatively if those kind of things continue to happen.  He simply does not have the resume to fall back on to justify giving him another year if this does not turn around this year.

LSAClassOf2000

October 15th, 2013 at 3:24 PM ^

I am pretty sure that being a cautionary tale when you have Kiffin's history is in itself an occupation, so at least he does have that going for him. 

I could be wrong, but it seems like - as a rule - a lot of staffs don't tend to do this. Position, unit and coordinator meetings, when you hear about them, seem to take place in different rooms as they focus on different aspects of film and strategy. There's probably a lot more collaboration between unit/position coaches on the same side of the ball than between coordinators. Again, it just seems like this is the case and do correct me if the impression is off. 

JAG333

October 15th, 2013 at 3:24 PM ^

I think its safe to say Mattison is dominating Borges in practice because of the offensive line. We have 15!! true freshman, rs freshman and rs sophomores on the o-line, counting walk-ons.

charblue.

October 15th, 2013 at 3:26 PM ^

the coach is the one doing the firing, right? So, if Borges is running what Hoke wants, how do you fire him? I mean if the head coach insists on power as the primary run game, and your OC accommodates your desire for that, and it doesn't work, and the reason it doesn't work is because your Oline can't block it well enough, who's fault is it, really? 

Michigan fans are pissed about Saturday's game not because the kids didn't play better, but because they weren't trusted enough to execute plays that would have assured victory. 

Brian's anger is obviously fueled by a certain offensive scheme bias, but the reality of scheme being pushed over the benefit of opportunity, means you can't claim opportunities were missed when you failed to take advantage of  the offensive opportunites to beat the defensive scheme your presnap alignment telegraphed. 

The players don't have perspective on this, they only do what they're asked on each call or change at the LOS. They may screw up and the play goes nowhere, but Michigan had time and opportunity to win that game, and it didn't because the coaches copped out on the kids. 

akim

October 15th, 2013 at 3:26 PM ^

One thing I would guess on the scenario is that if it did happen, Mattison would not give crazy alignments with obvious weaknesses, unless they're some sort of defensive bait and switch... maybe that explains things!

UMgradMSUdad

October 15th, 2013 at 3:37 PM ^

I've wondered this as well, but I recall a press briefing from last year that in response to a question indicated that there was no strategy input from the DC to OC or vice versa.  I think it would be a good idea, though, because it should provide some insight if Borges were to ask Mattison, for example, with our offense and personnel, what plays would you be most leery about trying to defend.

nickb

October 15th, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^

a good passing team has a good passing defense. A good running team usual has a good defense against the run. This is what they practice and each unit develops their skills mirroring the strength of each other.

In Michigan's case they are neither a good running team or a good passing team. In response, the defense is below average against passing and running. When you practice against mediocrity on both sides you end up with a mediocre team.

My concern is the failure to develop players because of mediocre coaching will seriously impact recruiting in the future. What kid would want to attend a program which has proven to take outstanding talent and make them average?

Change needs to come quick (read new staff) or we are headed to being a low tier program.

MonkeyMan

October 15th, 2013 at 4:16 PM ^

Having a strong defense to go up against does not mean the offense would get better, the offense could be failing in practice and not know why- it may even condition the offense to expect a certain lack of success. Ideally, the two units would be teaching each other their tricks- but this may not be happening in practice. They could be just routinely drilling with little innovation. The most successful coaches seem to be able to transform the teams they take over in about two years max. This transformation is so quick that it obviously points to the importance of coaching over recruiting as the main reason for success. Thus, the most interesting thing to look at IS practice. This is why your question is actually a very good one. Something is failing in the teaching phase at UM football.

jackw8542

October 15th, 2013 at 4:29 PM ^

An obvious solution is for Gardner to go to the line having called two plays that go out of the same formation, one a run and the other a pass.  If there are 8 or more in the box, he stays with (or checks to) the pass and if there are 7 or fewer he goes with the run.  No OL is going to do very well when it is 8 defenders on 5 or 6 blockers, and that is what Borges calls with mind-numbing persistence.  In fact, it is not even fair to judge this line, as he puts them in one impossible situation after another.

Wolfman

October 15th, 2013 at 5:09 PM ^

I think this has been borne out in our past four ball games.

This might seem like total nonsense given this age of football and how offenses have evolved, logically it would seem as a result of sharp OCs. However, thinking back to last year's second half vs. OSU it just stood out that he had a plan that had Devin throwing on first down every series, which he did and it usually resulted in a gain of 7-8 yards(no data to back that up), then try and pound out the remaining two or three with the next two calls.

 

It became inconceivable to me watching the efficiency on first down and the continued ineffectiveness of preconceived and unchangeable calls on all plays following that he would not continue to use Devin's ability to pick up these huge chunks of yardage through the air. If we had scored one td in that second half the game would have been ours'. We held OSU to six points, yet our 1 point half time lead of 21 points never changed. It became blatantly clear what was working and what was not and no matter what you are doing, be it raking a lawn, painting a house, repairing a car, when you find the quickest most effective way to get the job done, you smile and continue to do so unless another obstacle presents itself, then you think your way through that. But you never, ever change what's working. That is perhaps one of the oldest adages, along with "low man wins," attributed to the game of football. Make a team stop your success. By what law of sanity does a football coach change what is working and continue with what is not? Trick question. There is no rational answer.

 

Brady, when speaking of Al says things like, "He watches more film than I do," as if that makes him a great OC. In one game in particular this year, I remember us coming out and throwing the ball, using motion and a jet sweep to Norfleet with a basketball touch pass that set up a reverse using the same alignment and touch pass quickly followed by the same touch pass from Norfleet to the reverse man. We were actually demonstrating a minute amount of imagination and we never found ourselves in a situation demanding continued pounding of the rock into a well built wall. Along with Funchess, we also used Gallon remarkably well. What this demonstrated to me is we are not forced, through youth or lack of personnel to continuously use probably a numbered play such as 44 smash, but what I now refer to as the hand off and pray play. We are very capable of moving the ball against future NFLers with personnel on hand as long as they are used in a manner that the defense is not certain what is coming, and even more importantly is not certain the play is not etched in granite no matter how they align themselves. In any battle, dating back to the Bay of Salamis and the stunning deeat of the Spanish Armada, deception, along with acknowledging and taking advantage of the opponent's weaknesses will neutralize any advantage they might have. This, in fact, has been demonstrated by our opponents since game 2, all weaker than us as to personnel, but all knowing full well our weaknesses and our tendency to not stray from them. If I were setting at a bar with Al instead of in front of my computer, I might be tempted to merely say to him, "Good God Man, give our men a chance." One can reasonably ascertain that the 40 we scored against them should have been done in the first half instead of 60 minutes and four overtimes. These are not acceptable results for UM football led by the same men for three years.

UM Fan in Nashville

October 15th, 2013 at 6:51 PM ^

I had a similar but opposite thought.  The lack of offense and the terrible O-Line might explain why our D-Line isn't getting as much done as expected.  The D-Line is going up against a complete mess of an O-Line and it looks like our D-Line is tearing it up in practices.  But in all actuality, our D-Line is getting nothing accomplished other than a false sense of confidence.

Something has to change on the Offensive side of the ball (O-line + playcalling) and some things need to start progressing on the D-Line or we are in a world of hurt in November.   

 

King Douche Ornery

October 15th, 2013 at 7:47 PM ^

I love the speculation on Borges being fired. It's ridiculous. The team just isn't that good. When I watch a lot of the replays, I see holes being opened up, and a VERRRYYY slow and tentative Fitz Toussaint not getting there, getting nailed.  Also, on the Borges front, the UM offense did put up 27 points, and was in position to win the game numerous other times. I'm thinking the guy more at fault here is Hoke.