Does anybody know when a final determination will be made? What could possibly be taking so long?
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
Does anybody know when a final determination will be made? What could possibly be taking so long?
What'd you expect him to do? Say OMigod they're going to bring the hammer!!! This is what coaches do, they play down sanctions and say things will all be okay. Kiffin pulled the same when recruiting to USC basically saying that they were going to win the appeal.
Something more is going to happen to Ohio, it's just a matter of time and probably won't be what we want to happen, but PR-wise there's no way the NCAA can let them get away with a slap to the wrist. USC, among other schools, would come out breathing fire.
Dunn doesn't seem very intelligent. Hes being lied to of course and he won't fit as well as he's been lead to believe in Meyers offense. I feel sorry for the kid really. Meyer is just trying to secure his top players at all cost.
I find the idea that Urban Meyer is lying to recruits about the sanctions, even though the sanctions will be public before these recruits will sign their LOI, to be ludicrous.
No added sanctions will be forthcoming.
You could probably have made your point without insulting the kid. Remember, we're trying to hold onto his cousin for 2013.
Dunn grew up a Buckeye fan, it probably didn't take much to sway his mind their way.
Think of how hard it would be for any of us to be 18 and in a place where it suddenly made sense in many ways to go to OSU. Dunn handled the situation well. He never trashed Michigan or made up some crap about them calling him "Tom." That's all we can ask.
You're an asshat.
I don't think he would lie about this to his recruits. Especially since all of these most recent signees can easily withdraw after the sanctions do or don't come down.
The amazing thing to me is that Meyer is apparently confident that the NCAA has no problem with him spreading the good news. It seems that this would be a huge image problem for the NCAA and they don't care.
Come on. Srsly?
I'm sure people can find great examples of him stretching the truth, but here's a whopper he told upon his exit from UF:
"But what I didn't want to have happen, and I made this clear to Jeremy [Foley], if I am able to go coach, I want to coach at one place, the University of Florida. It would be a travesty, it would be ridiculous to all of a sudden come back and get the feeling back, get the health back, feel good again and then all of a sudden go throw some other colors on my shirt and go coach. I don't want to do that. I have too much love for this University and these players and for what we've built."
I didn't say that Meyer wouldn't lie. I said he wouldn't lie about this because there was very little to gain and a lot to lose.
If he straight up lies to Dunn and sanctions come down, Dunn doesn't look back. If he tells Dunn he doesn't know, and sanctions come down, he still has credibility with Dunn and can work to overcome the sanctions.
If he straight up lies and no sanctions come down, Dunn stays committed. If he tells Dunn he doesn't know and no sanctions come down, Dunn commits.
Dunn isn't stupid enough to lie to a recruit for no reason. If Dunn were still an early enrollee, I might be inclined to think Meyer is lying and doesn't actually know. But since he is not, Meyer knows and is letting recruits and players know sounds infinitely more plausible.
You admit that Meyer lies. Yet, you think there is some reason that he wouldn't lie to someone about THIS, specifically. He has considerable interest in doing everything possible to get Dunn to reaffirm his committment.
There is no 'lose' in this scenario for Meyer. If sanctions come down, Dunn is out regardless. If Michigan believes that Dunn is off the table, and then Michigan gets another stud RB to fill his spot, then Meyer wins by virtue of not having to face Dunn at Michigan.
If he gets Dunn to commit before sanctions are announced, and then Dunn enrolls early ... well, guess what, Dunn is stuck. Meyer can't allow Dunn to visit UM because he knows that Dunn will probably commit. And yes, per Fox, Meyer is pulling strings to get Dunn enrolled early.
So, I find your assertion that Meyer wouldn't lie to Dunn about sanctions to be demonstrably false.
I agree. Make no mistake, he is a snake with big paycheck and will do anything to win. Including making empty promises to a kid that would be good for UM and bad for the fuckeyes. He is baiting him. Also, if Dunn does decide to stick with OSU, good luck to him. I hope he learns his OSU degree will make him supervisor at a reputable fast food chain.
^^^^^^ This, this, this... ^^^^^^
Why on earth does anyone think OSU didn't just hire another senatorial-seeming snake in the grass like Meyer. He goes into a kid's house and puts up the front of the smooth talking big-timer, all the while filling the kid with half-truths and out-right lies. Shocking.? No.
Probably a good guess, combined with a good sales pitch. He knows there will be something additional, if only an extra year or two of probation. Probably has a pretty good idea there won't be anything serious. Carroll had a ggos idea what was going to happen and jumped ship at USC.
It's all about money. Ohio brings it in and the NCAA wont do anything to really kill that. Add in Gee's former roommate leading the charge...yea I will believe any kind of punishment when I see it.
My guess is Gee said there's going to be no sanction's. Meyer believed it and is now telling recruits. When they get sanctioned he will say Gee lied, please stay and help rebuild.
I thought this exact same thing. Assuming meyer isn’t lying and he knows whats coming, how the hell could the ncaa even pretend to do its job anymore? If this were the case, osu would be so clearly in the ncaa’s pocket that they know ahead of time the consequences they are going to face. That screams collusion. On the other hand, if meyer is just flat out lying to the recruits, and he has no idea what the punishments will be, that just makes him look like an utter dirtbag.
I don’t know. But this whole situation with osu vis a vis the ncaa is very upsetting.
The NCAA is a monoply, in a sense, and doesn't give a sh*t about much of anything because it doesn't have to. I would never get too worked up about what it does or doesn't do.
Wasn't there some smoke about College Presidents or ADs exploring the option of an alternative association?
I can't think of anything that would prevent the major conferences from doing that. It's not as if participation in the NCAA is a congressional mandate.
OSU getting off easy would probably add a lot of fuel to that fire
It certainly would in the PAC 12...and let's be realistic, it's not as if preferential treatment would be easily accepted on the left coast.
Will not be punished for all of the reasons listed above. That does not change the fact that Urban is the second coming of the vest (he'll recruit, he'll win, he'll lie, he'll cheat, etc.). I'll take Hoke, Mattison, Borges all day. Ohio is going to be a pain for a while (as they should be) but they won't be starting any kind of runs soon.
P.S. No hard feelings about Dunn. I do hope he gets what he was promised. Oh and that he is 0-4 v. M.
Pay close attention to what Bri'onte says. Urban just "told" him what was up. He didn't say "Urban told me he spoke to the NCAA and we're looking good." Sounds like he's just taking whatever Meyer is saying and taking it as gospel.
he was saying that Dunn does not have to worry about the penalties, meaning they don't affect him. so under this hypothesis, there could be scholarship reductions but that would most likely affect future or walk on buckeyes or other players. there could be massive fines and coaching reductions, but those would only tangentially involve dunn. the only thing that would involve dunn directly would be a post season ban, which given the big ten lobbying to keep teams in bowl games and seems remote anyhow.
Even if we read more into Meyer's claim, I don't agree scholarship reductions would not affect Dunn. They hurt the team, and its ability to compete (not to mention to bring on more blockers for him to run behind), and therefore him.
If I were an SEC coach not getting in on the dirtiness and defying on NCAA rules, this would be the catalyst to jump on the bandwagon.
Watch the domino effect ripple through Oregon, Texas, OU, more than it already has. Hell if I were Chip Kelly why not get another Lyles or whatever his name is to funnel me recruits.
It will be interesting to see Urban start spinning when he is wrong and Ohio gets hit hard.
What will Dunn do then?
The conversation will go like this:
Dunn: Coach you said we would be ok, what happened?
Meyer: We were told everything would be ok.
Dunn: Looking back on it, I don't know how Ohio could come to this conclusion. Didn't Tressel lie multiple times to the NCAA, didn't a whole bunch of players violate NCAA rules and then didn't some of the same players violate more rules in the summer.
Meyer: You have a point there. Let me check into it.
You give Dunn too much credit in this conversation. Urban portrayed perfectly.
1. Dunn grew up loving OSU just like we love Michigan;
2. OSU just hired a coach who's won two national titles;
3. I don't think, FWIW, that OSU is going to get any harder;
4. Let's not bash the cousins of Michigan commits - or any 18 year old kids for that matter.
Actually, I believe that the proper verbiage for an OSU dirtbag is, "I'll get right on it!"
is there any way that we, as Michigan fans, are overblowing the severity of infractions? This one has dropped off the radar from a national standpoint, given the issues that have since broke in Miami and Penn State.
Was firing the iconic Vest and a few scholarship reductions enough to satisfy the NCAA gods? Is it because the money and benefits received was small compared to USC and Reggie Bush?
I just can get my head wrapped around the idea that they shouldn't get hammered given the scope of improper benefits and apparent LOIC, but it may be because of my myopic viewpoint.
There seems in retrospect to have been a lot more smoke than fire. It's not at all clear to me what happened other than the Tat-5 stuff (I includ Tressel's failure to disclose in that).
I agree other than that their compliance process was exposed as woefully deficient for a program of that caliber. In a sense I think they lucked out because players could have been getting away with far worse things.
From a toothless, subpoena-powerless NCAA perspective, I agree with you. But from a common sense perspective, we all know that there was a big blazing fire behind all that smoke ever since Tressel stepped on campus. From the recruits (like Clarrett, Troy Smith and TP) who knew they had free run of the place to the shady business person/fan hangers-on, I'll never be convinced there wasn't a systemic problem during the Vest's regime that gave OSU a huge advantage over us.
there was the original violation stuff of the players misdeeds and tressel's cover up. following that, there was the car thing, which seems shady but was "resolved" and proved to be legal. there was TP and his mates emptying the supply closet in return for cash, but i don't think there was any real evidence or record of this exchange. various other minor things have come up, the golfing and the envelopes of money from charity events, which was resolved to a degree with suspensions this year.
i think there is a lot of wishful thinking and a lot of smoke, but in the end i think it is just the tat5 stuff, which is still pretty bad, but without JT there anymore...
There isn't anything much left to punish that had any solid evidence behind it. As you say, they already lost Tressel.
OTOH, remember that Posey got caught...again. This is when the NCAA pushed back the ruling and OSU docked itself some scholarships. I believe the NCAA also told Ohio that they faced failure to monitor charges at that point as well.
My understanding, though, is that Posey, et al. weren't overpaid by that much for those jobs. It doesn't seem like enough to cause major sanctions (especially given that those guys were already punished). As you say, though, it did seemingly cause the NCAA to add the extra charge, so who knows? I just know, this late in the day, that I have no reason to think that CRAIG JAMES KILLED FIVE HOOKERS AT SMU AND BURIED THEIR BODIES NEAR A TRAILER PARK IN FORTH WORTH. There is no reason to think that at all.
Posey was given a union job he wasn't qualifed to do (and presumably didn't, since he couldn't) and didn't have a chance in hell of landing on his own.
Or he was overpaid ridiculously, getting a skilled union wage for the job he actually did.
Your choice--either is bad.
On top of that was Posey's mother claiming the university was withholding paperwork that would have implicated them, not the players, in the wrongdoing--she said they'd thrown the players under the bus to save themselves from an FTM (which they're facing anyway as it turns out) or an LOIC.
I found this http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/stories/2011/10/08/ncaa-suspends-posey-for-5-games.html , which says part of what you said. I also saw other reports in which Posey was working alongside union workers. I very much doubt that the NCAA would really look very deeply into this, but who knows?
Will all this at least help us a little bit in recruiting?
I assume that even OSU is not stupid enough to keep doing all the stuff we all knew they were doing . . . cash, cars, fake work programs, no classes, etc.
If they are forced to tighten up that stuff, won't that make them less attractive to some recruits?
I hold two simultaneous thoughts about OSU:
1) Meyer will be a great coach and will tear it up in recruiting,
2) Even so, it won't be enough to offset the unfair advantage they had been getting under Tressel.
No matter how well Meyer does, our lives will never be harder than they were against OSU under Tressel. The playing field is now more even, and we got us some good players.
Two words: Repeat Offender.
Urban Meyer is a weasel
I bet that conversation was very similar to the one Kiffin had with Matt Barkley upon his arrival.
I'm starting to hate that school more and more everyday. I didn't think that was possible. Way to go, Urban.
Their pants are gold so they can hold their golden shit..
So go out and spread THIS on the interwebs.