I am going to say Yes, but that is just because I don't think it can be any worse. B1G officiating does not mesh with Michigans current style.
chance of bowl: 13.6%
I am going to say Yes, but that is just because I don't think it can be any worse. B1G officiating does not mesh with Michigans current style.
/didn't read the topic, sorry. stil pissed
This should be your response to everything that is posted until Tuesday.
/didn't read your post, sorry. stil pissed
We'd have to loose more than this game to do that.
I have thought this for months. I think if we can avoid Big Ten style officiating (though frankly, it's catching on, particularly in the Big East) we're in the Final Four. If we can get a nice streak of ACC refs, we can win the title.
If we want home cooking, it's up to our fans to create a loud enough environment to sway the officials. Even in the OSU game, I felt that the crowd was not that into it for long stretches. It was fairly quiet when OSU opened up that eight-point lead. The crowd did become very noisy down the stretch, and we got the two no-calls on their last two possessions.
It seems like the Maize Rage isn't as well-organized as some other student sections. When the other team has the ball, only some of the students jump up and down and make noise. It's like some of our students are too bashful to be vocal. (Are they afraid of being gif'd on this website?)
I wish they were more organized as well too, but from a seating standpoint. I don't like that the overflow goes all the way up to the corner roof. Spread them out around the court.
That'd be amazing, but I don't think many schools would pass up the lucrative money to be made in selling the rest of those seats to alumni. Most schools devote half the lower bowl space (or less) to students and the rest to the high-rollers.
on neutral court it usually benefits the more talented teams. I still think this UM team had just as much talent as anybody, so it should work to their advantage.
I will say they need to tighten up their defense, rebounding, and shot selection before March if they want to make a Final Four run.
That the NCAA Tournament officiating is a horrific wake-up call to Big Ten teams that thrive on the Big Ten officiating. How many Final Fours has Wisconsin been to under Ryan? How many times have they finished near the top of the standings?
They went to the Sweet 16 last year before losing to the Number 1 seed by one point.
The year before that they lost to Butler in the Sweet 16. MSU routinely does better in the tournament because they manhandle people in the tournament. The Big Ten is tough, we lost because of a halfcourt shot and missed layups, not because of the refs.
they've outperformed their seed 3 times (2003, 2005, 2009)
matched their seed 6 times
underperformed their seed 2 times (2007, 2010)
failed to make the tournament 0 times.
I'd take that. It'd be nice to make a final four now and again but that's not really a record to be ashamed of.
A few reasons:
1. MSU and OSU have reached final four multiple times over the last decade
2. Kansas has been finalist 2x in last 5 years and Self's teams play B1G style
3. Big East has similar style with full muggings and they are fine in March
4. Most importantly, the Sweet 16 and Elite Eight games can get very rough between 2 good, determined teams
We need toughness and the ability to grind out tough wins.
More than anyone. And nobody is more physical than MSU.i don't know where this idea that they call the Tournament tighter came from. If anything, it's an advantage to the Big Ten. It's easier to adjust to a tightly called game; you just play basketball. If you're not used to getting jostled around and they're letting people play, it's tougher. And they're never going to call everything, so it always favors the more aggressive team.
Our team is as tough as others. I just want to see a mesh of ticky tack to shoving in the big ten. They either call call way too many fouls or let people mug each other to the point where they can't get the ball in the rim.
JB does not coach a phyical style and has not recruited that type of player. That is the reason why McGary makes such an impact. This is why losing Morgan who plays that way at times is killing us right now.
We are more built for a tourney run vs a B1G regular conference team.
young and built for finesse. Burke, Stauskas and GRob are lean guys and not able to muscle when the game gets rough, yet.
Our style is more Big 12 or ACC than B1G meat grinder and no one ever describes our play as "rough and ugly", but we better buckle up if we want to win the B1G.
pretty much has NBA type of size already. His issues the last three of so games seem to be more mental than anything.
Where has he ever used that size to affect the game on defense.
physically well built as freshmen. In earlier games the announcers were talking constantly about how he already had an NBA type of body. Now using that size is different story, than simply having it, but that is a mental type of issue not an issue of not being physically built enough to do so.
Novak wasn't physical? Our guys are plenty physical. Regardless of how physical you are it's hard to finish shots when's you're getting shoved.
He was one player as is McGary/Morgan.
How often has JB had McGary/Morgan on the floor at the same time.
Look at Izzo and how he approaches the game.
How many "physical" players does JB recruit and/or play at the same time.
In regards to Novak: He was tough. He was always giving up 30 lbs and 5 inches which means he was beaten up but stuck to it. If he was guarding a 2/3 position player instead of primarily a 4 it would be different.
There is more than one way to coach a basketball team. Izzo will play two posts come hell or high water. Beilein will play four guys with the ability to stretch the defense. They're different philosophies, but both coaches have been very successful using them. We might note as well that Beilein has won three of the last four meetings between the two.
Speaking of Morgan, I think people are seriously underrating his absence. He's our best interior defender (and certainly our best at hedging screens) and also has the best low-post moves on the team. We've been playing the meat of our schedule without our starting center. That's a significant handicap. McGary is coming on, but he can't play 40 minutes a night. Morgan/McGary is a much better center duo than McGary/Horford. With Morgan, we'd have probably won today, and possibly against IU.
Morgan, I think were seeing that is more valuable to this team than some may have thought before his injury. Not only is a glue type of guy as a upperclassmen, but as you said is the most consistent post defender on the team.
For everyone freaking out, Michigan is still the odds on favorite to WIN the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP!!
History tells us those Vegas guys know what they're doing. Remember where the basketball program was 2 years ago, 3 years ago, last year?
This is what Wisconsin does. They were a 2 point underdog today - the Kohl Center is full of whimsical basketball shot making fairies. Relax.
While I do think Michigan is still a national title contender, that link was last updated on February 4th.
Since that date, we've beaten a top 10 team in Crisler and then lost to a tourney-bound team on the road in OT after said team hit a halfcourt prayer. We also played both games without one of our starting players. So no, I don't think our odds will change much.
I was thinking that it would help us during OT, but then I watched the beginning of UNC and The U and I felt the officials let them play through 3 early fouls. HS Bball in Ohio is trending the way of " let them play" as well. I hate it, as it uglies up the game and penalizes aestetichally pleasing bball so that less talented or more poorly coached teams can compete.
There actually aren't any conference officials in basketball. There are just NCAA officials. These same referees work games in other conferences.
I think the issue is more that college basketball officials aren't as good at tuning out the home crowd as NBA officials are, and that our conference happens to have a lot of raucous venues. In the tournament, in front of neutral crowds, the games aren't going to be called as one-sided.
Heh, NBA officials aren't affected by crowds and are competent. Hilarious. They're why I quit the league.
NBA officiating has its own set of issues (namely, the double-standards for superstars) - but pro refs don't get influenced that much by the crowd. LeBron, Kobe et al. get a favorable whistle whenever they play.
B1G has a fairly consistent set of guys who officiate. Kitts, Valentine, Boroski, Eades - they're already at double digit games this year.
These guys do more than just B1G, but they are influenced by the feedback and the games they get assigned. Conferences "encourage" a style of play in various direct and indirect actions.
The NCAA does less to "encourage" a specific style as you describe above.
We just need to be ready if the style turns physical, like a tourney game against Louisville or Kansas.
The one thing I would question is how much our ability to avoid foul trouble is related to the B1G refs. It's conceivable that some of the reason why we pick up so few fouls has to do with the refereeing. I don't think this will be too much of an issue because 1. Our generally less physical style of play means we'll have less of a dropoff than other Big Ten teams and 2. Going down a bit from having the 4th fewest (or whatever the rank is) fouls won't hurt us that much.
So I would agree that the switch will benefit us but, beyond opening up the offense, it might force us into some tactical changes on the defensive end.
There may not be strictly BIG 10 officials, but the officials that ref BIG games don't generally travel out of the region. Terry Wymer did both OSU-UM games and almost every Buckeye game according to their fans. From same area as Aaron Craft and they refer to him as their 6th man.
Michigan's defensive style is to stay in front and not foul. This works against us in Big Ten play because teams are not penalized properly for all the clutching, grabbing and bumping. Since we don't do this as much as other Big Ten teams, we don't benefit at home, and are at a big disadvantage on the road.
In the tourney, one would hope our style will be an advantage. It will do two things for us - one, it will open our offense back up so we can get guys like Stauskas and Glenn Robinson III major involvement again. Two, we won't have to adjust our defenses for the style of officiating we're facing. Foulfest teams like Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State will have to figure out how to play *real* defense, and to get *real* position on rebounds. A much more difficult task than we will face (I think this has been hurting the Big Ten for a while now, actually).
My problem is that we've dropped at least two games where I think style of officiating might have mattered, and are likely to drop another at MSU this coming week. We *probably* win these if we are able to play our game and they are penalized properly for playing theirs. These losses could keep us from getting the number one seed we would easily get if we were in, say, the ACC. That number one seed gives us a much easier path to a final four. Unlike others, I'm not so sure the BIG is going to get more than one top seed.
Will the different set of officials help our bigs make 2 ft shots & layups in the March? If so then yes, they'll help a lot.
You know I bitch as loudly as anybody about the B1G officiating bias - especially at Assembly Hall - but the facts are we left a shit-ton of points out there by repeatidly missing bunnies at point blank range. The handful of calls that admidtidly all went against don't mean squat if our bigs can knock down short range shots and Stauskas gets his stroke back.
Considering we should have been shooting two from the line on a number of those misses, yes.
have been converted, but there was some hacking on those shots that made them a little more difficult. I would expect those type of hacks to be called more consistently in the NCAA tournament.
There are a lot less ticky tack calls in March. Whether that helps or hurts Michigan, i don't know, but it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.
Sidenote: there are no such things as "big ten refs". Hightower, Valentine, etc ref for other conferences too, and you will see them in March as well.
tack calls not being made though, the missed calls on Wisconson were flat out hacks near the rim. Letting ticky tack hand checks and whatnot on the perimeter go is one thing, but hacks near the basket not being called is a different story. That is what was so frustrating about this game, Michigan was attacking the basket for much of the game, and was promptly rewarded with two free throws the entire game. Wisky jacked up three pointers for the most part, but still got to the line 10 times. In the NCAA tournament hacks near the basket seem to be called a little more consistently, regardless of whether the ticky tac fouls are being called.
Anytime you take out the home court advantage element of the officiating, and call a more fair game, that should favor the more talented teams
complaints about the Stauskas hacking won't get answered in the NCAA - they let the guys play a little more away from the rim.
The more pertinent complaints regard the fouls at the rim, which should go in our favor in March.
Still, our rebounding and ball handling have to be ready for the "play on" no calls. We have the talent to win it all if we play smart and tough.
I'd like to think so but remember that #1 seeds are always rooted against by every other fan in attendance so while the game will be played on a neutral court the cheering will be anything be neutral. And I've learned anything watching basketall for the past 45 years or so it's that officials LOVE TO BE CHEERED as much as any of the players on the court. So 50-50 calls always, always, always go to the side that generates the most applause.
So dont be so sure the officiating is going to be any big help come March.
But the high seeds also get favorable game locations. We'll probably be in Auburn Hills and have two very favorable crowds the first two rounds.
...then watched us get abused by Blake Griffin. (And no I am not complaining about the officiating...it just wasn't what I expected.)
I think the issue is not that they let a lot of fouls caused by physical play go uncalled, it's their inconsistent officiating. And it's not just inconsistent during a single game, but from crew to crew. What's called a foul one time, isn't necessarily called the same way if it occurs again. I can only hope this will help Big Ten schools come tourney time, because no team will have had a chance to get set in their ways on how they adjust their play to a certain reffing style. We shall see. Regardless, I hate Big Ten refs.
I wanna see our coach throw a fucking chair out onto the floor. That is all.
All if it. We outplayed them and won by 3. Then they took a shit, and it went in from 40 feet away.
We have lead the big ten the whole season and when we lose we have folks blaming the refs in a game where they consistently did not call much...ala every other big ten season in existence. Grow a pair and hope we dunk instead of try layup a next time. Then go to the opposing teams boards and see them bitch about the refs. Then laugh. Good lord. We are doing just fine and will continue to do so.