Do you really want Borges replaced?
I am bringing this up because the more I think about it, I really don't know what the right answer is. It probably comes down to how well he coaches for the remainder of the season and the potential candidates that are out there in December/January.
I am willing to overlook the Manball Massacre if he calls near perfect games to defeat MSU and OSU. Hell, beat IU this weekend and get those two wins - he could fling his own poo at other staff members in the box for the other three games for all I care.
Bet let's say the remaining games are more Akron/UConn/PSU than ND, and everyone's calling for his head at the end of the season. Would there be any viable replacement?
For former UofM staff, the options are limited. Cam Cameron has Michigan ties, but is in Year 1 at LSU (and is probably happy to be working with MIles) and has a $1M buyout. Debord is a non-starter. No one from the RR era is ever coming back.
Presumably the OCs at the top offensive powerhouses (Baylor, Oregon, TAMU, FSU) have zero chance of coming here.
There aren't many 'lower level' programs with offenses in the top 25 so far this year: Fresno State, Wyoming, Northern Illinois, Troy, Boise St.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:06 PM ^
I was hoping for an answer. Yes, we stunk on the run and the play calling was terrible. But would you be less mad if threw a INT? Gardner is what, 3:2 TDs to INTs? He was due for an INT. I hated the playcalling, but it got us what was a makeable field goal for the win.
October 16th, 2013 at 4:05 PM ^
Yes, I would rather Gardner throw it - why? EVERYTHING WAS WIDE OPEN. If you're completely unwilling to throw the ball because you're afraid of turnovers, then why bother even having the guy at quaterback? We should just kneel on every down.
October 16th, 2013 at 10:19 PM ^
the QB that lions fans still long for. his best year he threw 26 TDs but threw 23 INTs (196:243 for his career). i'm guessing his coaches were still comfortable with him taking charge at the end of games.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:36 PM ^
Ummm...yep! I'd be pissed because - just like running it up the middle into a stacked box 27 times - we have seen that the slant-route play is not working! So, yeah, I'd be pissed.
But what's your point? Are you telling me that the only options for Borges are (1) run up the middle or (2) throw the slant route? Is that the vacuum we are playing in these days? Dear god, how about - dare I say - bubble sreens to some of our legitimate offensive threats: Gallon, Dileo, Norfleet, etc. Or, maybe to keep the defense honest, tell Funchess to go on a fly to the endzone! Take ONE shot in the endzone because - ya know - it's overtime, and we'd like to win (especially after the first OT when you had to know your kicker would be a bit rattled)!
Do your job and play to win the game!
October 16th, 2013 at 1:22 PM ^
"especially after the first OT when you had to know your kicker would be a bit rattled)!"
Gibbons has been a very reliable kicker in pressure situations (See: Virginia Tech and MSU games.) It's easy to say that in hindsight. Very few coaches would have played aggressively with an interception-prone quarterback and porous O-line and with a kicker who is a proven winner under similar high-pressure situations.
My point is to blow a 10 point lead and lose the game in OT is going to cause overreaction regardless of how it happens. Nothing wrong with being extremely disappointed with the playcalling, but to call for his job is wreckless. I'm in no way excusing running the same play over and over and over and over and over again. It was terrible. Continued playcalling will result in Borges losing his job. What I am saying is that I am confident that firing him now would be worse for the program long-term. Unless we have a sure-bet lined up who can mature the O-line overnight then, by all means let's get him in there, but I don't see anybody available that fits that description. We can evaluate Borges' ability to adapt with the rest of the season, and if he can't, we are in a better position to find a replacement. But, believe me, if I see another 27 for 27 performance by Toussaint on Saturday, maybe I'll change my tune. :)
October 16th, 2013 at 3:42 PM ^
Fair point. I agree that it is best to wait before firing Borges. I am not calling for his head right now; just calling for him to respond to the game as it goes on. Also - agree - it's one thing to say "fire him" and another to ask "who will fix it?" I do think some options may exist, although they will be out of the UM family tree.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:52 PM ^
I asked you yesterday if you would be showing your work. Apparently, coming back with a number of punts above the NCAA average and claiming it is evidence of Al being awesome is the kind of quality work we can expect from you. It's already been pointed out that we have more punts than the NCAA average. You seem to believe that Al deserves a raise for this.. Okay, so take away the turnovers. Now how many more punts do we have and how much more money should we throw at Al, then?
Just pulling out a simplistic argument like the number of times we have punted this season rather than actually arguing the merits of Al's playcalling only goes to show that you probably aren't capable of reasonable defending Al's playcalling on it's own merit.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:52 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:25 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^
Not mid-season, not after being a makeable field goal kick away from being 6-0. We're not winless Purdue. The offense put up 27 points in regulation. I didn't like what he said in the presser either, and the playcallng was horrendous during the PSU game, but I'll judge him solely on what plays he calls in the remaining games. What's said in pressers is next to useless. If we don't see changes in the calls, I think I'd be more open to, if not completely for, a change in OC being made after the OSU game.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:28 AM ^
I'd settle for hiring a damn QB coach.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:30 AM ^
I hear Lane Kiffin is looking for work.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:30 AM ^
It's been a hugely frustrating first half, but as in 2011, things can get better from here. I think if we finish the season with 9+ wins he's safe for another year. But if we get <8 and it's clear that the problems are on offense, we might want to consider other options. Here are a few I'd like to consider, in that case:
1. Scott Loeffler (assistant coach, VaTech)
Obvious Michigan connections, highly regarded, great QB tutor, etc. And since he's not actually the OC at VaTech, this would be a promotion.
2. Noel Mazzone (OC, UCLA)
Look how quickly UCLA has improved, how good their running game is and how they play hybrid spread/manball.
3. Mike Bloomgren (OC, Stanford)
Great o-line coach, does what Hoke wants us to do, but might be hard to pry from Stanford.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 12:21 PM ^
It might be easier for Michigan to pry him from Stanford....
October 16th, 2013 at 12:56 PM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 1:29 PM ^
RB Coach for the Bengals. Michigan should go after him
October 16th, 2013 at 11:32 AM ^
I know this was discussed in another thread but how much of this is Hoke insisting on manball much like RR insiting on a 3-3-5?
October 16th, 2013 at 11:36 AM ^
It's similar. RR's idea is dumber. Hoke's results are far worse, though.
Reason being: Hoke brought in his staff on the offensive side of the ball. RR never got to bring over Casteel and kept trying to fit his square peg into the round hole.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:13 PM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:33 AM ^
The same people who wanted to know what was wrong with Tiger pitcher Justin Verlander "he'll never be the same guy, it's over for him". The same people who call for goalie changes with the Red Wings. The quarterback for the Lions, and on and on and on. I don't pay any attention to them at all. How many coaches for the Lions needed to be replaced? It's just endless and what really confuses them is rarely they are right but in most cases NOT.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ^
Outside of the Lions coaches, all those named have demonstrated superstar ability...and those that haven't were deserving of the criticism.
Al Borges, at his best, has demonstrated at Michigan to be slightly above mediocre.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:33 AM ^
He's not involved with recruiting so there will be no broken hearts with recruits. Waiting until the end of the season is probably best, but sometimes a mid season whacking can provide a fresh spark.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:35 AM ^
Depends.....Part of me thinks Borges is handcuffed a little bit by the head coach but I don't know if that is true or I'm speculating. Last week was brutal, but I love what we did against Notre Dame and South Carolina in the bowl game. It is hard to reconcile those offenses with what we got on Saturday with Penn State. I'm starting to think the staff has lost a little faith in Gardner to not make mistakes and that is why we have tightened up. It reminds me of Denard after the Notre Dame game last season when we came out throwing it around. It seems like we tightened up after that performance. I really wish we would spread it out, take our chances and I could live with the result. 30 carries for 28 yards is mind boggling. My health and well being can't take any more of that.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
Yes. With extreme prejudice.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^
I would like to see Borges give it a shot when we have a line that can even remotely block. That would sure be cool. OC isn't gonna really matter until we hit that point. People here straight up lost their damn minds about the coaches because of one game where we lost to a two point underdog on the road.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:50 AM ^
We were a two point favorite, for what it is worth... the minus = favorite.
Also, playing devil's advocate here: I would like to see Borges have a brain that tells him the stove is hot and to NOT touch it. 27 running plays from the RBs up the middle gaining 27 yards is like touching the stove ten times when it's turned on. Your argument is basically, "I'd like to see Al touch the stove when it's turned off"... well no shit that's going to work.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:51 AM ^
Right, and I said we lost to a two point underdog.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^
Yes. We will never be where we want to be with Al Borges as OC. His time has passed. I also don't get this idea that there's nobody else out there. Every year an elite program snipes an up and comer because it can pay more. Why can't we do that? Why does it have to be someone with Michigan ties?
October 16th, 2013 at 11:48 AM ^
He is arrogant, but which major coordinator isn't (some obviously hide this trait better than others). He's a smart football guy and has been successful in the past.
However, his results have been sub-par especially this year. Something needs to change. The ideal scenario is for Borges to adopt and use man ball a lot less this season. I just don't know that we have the time to do this.
The real problem with firing Borges is that next year (and moreso for the year after that), we will be far more capable of playing manball.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:08 PM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 12:16 PM ^
Have you read the presser?
October 16th, 2013 at 11:48 AM ^
All I want is for the offense to use all of the information available to select the best play to succeed against a given defense. Huddling leaves them no opportunity to do this because they have five seconds once they see the defensive formation. The decision to huddle doesn't absolve the playcalling because the OC can still see the defensive personnel on the field. For the play on the front page, Al should have seen that there were four defensive tackles in the game and done anything else.
I'm dreading to see the offensive RPS number from the UFR. Coaching against Borges would be like playing rock paper scissors against someone who throws on "3" and lets you throw on "shoot."
Honest question: Has Al Borges ever heard of game theory?
October 16th, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
Borges is terrible, no way around it, fire him.
October 16th, 2013 at 11:55 AM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 11:56 AM ^
If we lose to MSU and OSU and theoffense is uncreative and/or ineffective, it is time to part ways with the man.
If we win both - stay the course and let the O-Line get older.
I don't like him, but wait until we have all 12 games under our belt and re-post.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:00 PM ^
I live in Alabama, and was talking with a few Auburn fans recently and surprisingly they all had high praise for Borges. They considered it a big mistake for Auburn to fire Borges a few years ago.
I believe he deserves a little grace for the youth on the O-line. The staff has recruited some exceptional talent at QB, TE, RB, Oline and most recently WR. Understandably, WR were shy on coming during the Denard years. We need to chill while the Oline talent gets coached up. He certainly deserves a little credit for the running game they put together at Auburn with the "3 headed monster."
October 16th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ^
October 16th, 2013 at 12:03 PM ^
MSU was a tire fire at the beginning of the season and the offense is hitting stride at the right time...they sucked, adapted, changed, whatever and the offense is putting up yards and points....I don't ever see Crazy Al doing this nor do I see Hoke forcing him to do this...I hate to say it but each week gets worse and it reminds me of the RR downward sprial of death...If the team is not progressing, something has to change..cough cough..coaches.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:09 PM ^
IN DEFENSE OF BORGES
copied my post from presser thread
--------------
one, this may have been the most anticipated weekly presser in mgoblog history. two, I'm struggling to concile the freewheeling, agressive Borges from UTL II (pretty much flawless gameplan) with Saturday night's fuckery.
I might be the only Borges defender left on this site at this point and even my will is waning.
I keep saying, Borges is aggressively old-school. He wants the RB to crack 1K yards and 2 different WRs to hit that mark as well; look at Ryan Lindley, Ronnie Hillman & co from San Diego State. That offense checked pretty much every box except for a high TD/ INT ratio. So what's the difference between him and "Communist Football" pro style DeBord? There are a few.
I like that Borges spends his offseasons going over NFL tape instead of talking to college coaches. The guy obviously isn't interested in the latest innovations; but the most effective ones (that actually make it to the league).
We aren't ready for manball yet. What you're seeing is the journey, the transition and we're getting nearer. Overhauling Michigan for power football was literally the biggest goal Hoke could have set for himself when he came here. RR just did not leave enough beef.
but homie comes off / across as a dinosaur here. Our OL can't block, Devin Gardner has regressed into Terrelle Pryor circa 2009, and we're stuck wit Tresselball for another year.
They need to spend the rest of the season chewing up so much damn clock that they near choke on it. I'll patiently wait for 2 performances: MSU and OSU. Aside from that....Capital One bowl. 2014 is the year, man. No more excuses.
And yall can relax; we aren't losing 8 times to Ohio State in a decade again. Seriously. Mattison and Hoke are building the spread antidote defense. Just wait.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:14 PM ^
Serious question forthcoming, and I realize it only speaks to a small part of your post:
So we should expect marked improvement from Borges next season, because after he finally catches up with what the NFL is doing this year (one RB averaging more than 100 yards per game - McCoy), we'll focus more on the passing game?
October 16th, 2013 at 12:20 PM ^
On the Eagles which is ironically is more of a spread offense?
October 16th, 2013 at 1:33 PM ^
It is THE spread offense. The coach is Chip Kelly, and he hasn't compromised much to conventional wisdom. And it has worked magnificently, not just for McCoy. The passing attack has been much better too, as Desean Jackson has morphed from a one-trick pony deep threat to a guy making plays all over the field (34 receptions through 6 games).
However, even if Hoke doesn't like the spread, there are so many more innovative minds than Al Borges running manball (Stanford, 49ers, etc.)
October 16th, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
I pulled back from calling it an outright spread right now since Vick's injured. What I wish is that Michigan would just do the passing spread of the '08 Captial One Bowl.
October 16th, 2013 at 4:35 PM ^
This is a spread offense. The Eagles ran the zone read (Foles had a 4-yard touchdown) and their entire running game was Chip Kelly's patented spread-out zone attack. In the words of Brady Hoke, it's "basketball on grass."
And yes, you're right. The offense in the Capital One Bowl was the best I've seen Michigan look in recent memory.
October 16th, 2013 at 12:26 PM ^
Borges is not DeBord. Borges would put it up 40x a game if he had to. He never met a 30 yard downfield strike he didn't like. All I'm saying is that when the OL starts clicking, he'll look like a smarter OC.
The guy is stubborn in his players; he wants them to execute. "Iso, pick up 3 yards. Do it. Now." He isn't going to tiptoe around it. Obviously that probably isn't the best approach at this point.
I think he can top out at a B+ OC.
October 16th, 2013 at 1:09 PM ^
Why exactly aren't we going to lose 8 times to OSU again? I realize we are recruiting at a high level, but OSU is out-recruiting our success! Moreover, whether you like him or not, Urban Meyer is fundamentally a helluva coach and knows how to win. He is not building a team to win B1G Championships; he's building a team to compete with the SEC.
Aside from G-Mat, I don't think our coaches can compete with Urban.