Do you really want Borges replaced?

Submitted by Mr. Rager on

I am bringing this up because the more I think about it, I really don't know what the right answer is.  It probably comes down to how well he coaches for the remainder of the season and the potential candidates that are out there in December/January.  

I am willing to overlook the Manball Massacre if he calls near perfect games to defeat MSU and OSU.  Hell, beat IU this weekend and get those two wins - he could fling his own poo at other staff members in the box for the other three games for all I care.

Bet let's say the remaining games are more Akron/UConn/PSU than ND, and everyone's calling for his head at the end of the season.  Would there be any viable replacement?  

For former UofM staff, the options are limited.  Cam Cameron has Michigan ties, but is in Year 1 at LSU (and is probably happy to be working with MIles) and has a $1M buyout.  Debord is a non-starter.  No one from the RR era is ever coming back.  

Presumably the OCs at the top offensive powerhouses (Baylor, Oregon, TAMU, FSU) have zero chance of coming here.  

There aren't many 'lower level' programs with offenses in the top 25 so far this year: Fresno State, Wyoming, Northern Illinois, Troy, Boise St.  

 

Erik_in_Dayton

October 16th, 2013 at 11:19 AM ^

I'm willing to live with him if in the offseason he goes on one of the vision quests that coaches sometimes go on in which they learn new things.  If you look at what Coach Beilein did at WVU and compare it to what he does now, many things are similar, but he's changed too.  That's no more and no less than what I want from Borges...That said, I'm not optimistic - for whatever reason.  Does Stanford have an up-and-coming offensive coach Michigan could poach?  Does Alabama?  Does Georgia?  I don't know. 

I absolutely would not fire him during the season.  Who would replace him?

EDIT:  Just read his presser.  Ugh.

Shop Smart Sho…

October 16th, 2013 at 11:09 AM ^

He is coaching at Va Tech right now.  He has the B1G and SE connections.  I still live in my fantasy world in which he unplugged DeBord's headset and was calling all of the plays in the bowl win over Florida.  So, in that fantasy world, he can do no wrong.

quickaskzoey

October 16th, 2013 at 11:14 AM ^

Yes, he has to go. Beyond his playcalling, you have to worry that he may start affecting recruiting because top offensive recruits won't want to come play in this prehistoric offense.

Obviously this hasn't been a problem so far but at some point it may start having an effect. One thing I've noticed in reading what recruits say about Michigan is that all the defensive guys praise Mattison for his schemes, I just don't see that a whole lot with Al Borges.

He is known as a QB guru (he's coached two guys, Cade McNown and Jason Campbell who were first round picks), so I could see one solution being to move him to a QB coach type roll with no playcalling duties and hiring a new OC.

reshp1

October 16th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ^

Beyond his playcalling, you have to worry that he may start affecting recruiting because top offensive recruits won't want to come play in this prehistoric offense
That is patently not true. Going back to Pro-style has been a huge boon for recruiting, and there have been numerous positive comments from recruits and commits about how excited they are that Michigan is going back to Pro-style. More over, it differentiates us from other programs so we're not competing for the same recruits as, say, Ohio. There's nothing wrong with scheme. It's play calling that's the problem, as far as Al is concerned. I still strongly believe the execution by the OL is what's killing our offense much more so than Al. Al needs to starting thinking hard about creating a cohesive set of plays that work off each other so that whatever the defense is doing, you have something that can take advantage of that. You can certainly do that in a pro-ball system without a lot of flash.

quickaskzoey

October 16th, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^

I shouldn't have said prehistoric offense, I should have said prehistoric playcalling. Obviously you can recruit talented players while running a pro-style offense but if Borges isn't going to get even a little creative with playcalling within his pro style system then I can see that hurting recruitng.

UofM-StL

October 16th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^

But at this point I don't care how he coaches the rest of the way anymore. He's called fantastic games in the past, with brilliant gameplans and playcalls that play off each other beautifully. He's also called absolute stinkers just as often.

At this point, I really believe that Borges comes up with a fresh gameplan every week and simply has no real idea of whether or not it will work until he puts it on the field. This wouldn't be too terrible if it weren't occurring in conjunction with his utter inability to admit when his gameplan is flawed and move on to something else.

I think this past game is the best possible example of this. He came in with a gameplan of how to get the power running game working. Having never really used this gameplan before, the only indication he had of whether or not it would be effective was his own intuition. After it became incredibly obvious to everyone involved that the gameplan was flawed and the power running game was dead in the water, Borges seems to say "Nah, I'm still pretty sure this is going to work."

As for replacements Cam Cameron was not surprisingly my first thought as well, but you're right he's probably not going anywhere. But honestly I don't really care that much who they look to put in there. Changing coordinators is a lot easier than changing head coaches, especially since Borges isn't really involved in recruiting. They just need to dump him and find a new guy to try out. Maybe an up-and-coming NFL position coach, maybe a lower-level college coordinator, really just someone else.

Borges is clearly not the answer at this point, so the longer we spend with him at the helm, the longer we have to wait until we find a guy that is. Maybe we have to run through a couple OCs before we get there, that's fine. As long as we are trying to get there, and not just settling for good enough.

M-Dog

October 16th, 2013 at 11:12 AM ^

Do nothing until the end of the season.  Then make adjustments, quietly.  No drama.

But you can forget about it.  Hoke is not going to fire Borges, they are on the same page.  Not entirely sure about Funk.

What's frustrating is that Borges knows how to call an effective offense and can do it when he wants to/is allowed to.  We've seen it in the Outback bowl, 2011 OSU and Nebraska, even the first half of CMU this year.

But for some reason, he/Hoke decide that those spurts of effective offense are not "who we are", and the handcuffs come back on.  Then we get 2011 Iowa, 2012 OSU, 2013 PSU.

The good news is that if history is a guide, we have one or two more games this season where the effective offense will be allowed out until the coaches feel too dirty to continue it.

 

jackw8542

October 16th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^

Not sure Funk is even part of the problem.  The fact that he cannot teach the 5 OLs how to block against 10 defenders would likely be a problem no OL coach could overcome.  Our OL is numerically outmanned on almost every single "let's run it into the middle of the line and tell them we're doing it" play that Borges calls that it is impossible to fairly assess their skills and Funk's coaching ability.  No matter how good the coach is, he can't teach five guys to block ten guys.

Space Coyote

October 16th, 2013 at 12:06 PM ^

5 OL to block 10 defenders.... yes. That is what happened.

People are claiming Michigan ran into stacked boxes all day. Well an 8 man front is expected when you are in 22 personnel, it's standard for that. 7 for 21 or 12 personnel, 6 for 11 personnel. This is what Michigan saw most of the day.

Never at any one time was there a play that asked 5 OL to block 10 defenders. Never was there a call that only asked the 5 OL to block any more than 5 defenders.

I get the exaggeration to a point to make a point, such as "we are running into 8-9 man boxes". Alright, I can live with that even if it's a little misleading. I can live with a crazy exaggeration like "we're running into 20 men in the box" because that's obvious. But what you just said is in that gray area where it's just ridiculous, because it sounds like you're being serious and comes off as having no clue.

Schembo

October 16th, 2013 at 11:13 AM ^

Lets see what happens after the MSU and OSU games.  His position should be reevaluated after that.  He should get the opportunity to fix the problem just like the MSU staff did.  He had a great gameplan against Notre Dame and the offense looked like it was coming back around in the 2nd half of the UConn game and I think Hoke forced his hand on the power run game strategy. 

Space Coyote

October 16th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^

Right now? Certainly not. End of season? Most likely not.

I don't think he's a great OC. I don't think Michigan is going to get a much better one though, honestly. I still think he's playing with a hand tied behind his back with the OL issues to a real extent. He gets at least one more year.

Mr. Rager

October 16th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ^

I think the OL issues are bullbird.

So, we have interior OL issues.  Call plays that reduce the weakness.  These plays do exist.  Under no circumstances call 27 runs right up the middle, into the black hole of our offense.  

Then, when in a press conference a few days later, don't defend your bullshit strategy.

This is what has the fanbase up-in-arms right now.  I think the anger will dissipate over time if he re-learns how to call a game to our strengths.  

 

GoBlueInNYC

October 16th, 2013 at 11:24 AM ^

I've heard people say things like "Borges is calling run plays because the alternative is to risk Gardner INTs," "it's not Borges out there turning the ball over," and "there's only so much he can do with that OLine." But isn't he at least partially responsible for those problems?

I mean, Gardner's TO issues should fall on the QB coach and offensive play caller's shoulders (i.e., Borges and Borges). The OLine issues might be directly related to Funk, but the chain of responsibility to through Borges (I know Funk is A1 and Hoke is the HS, but this is a Borges-focused thread).

jackw8542

October 16th, 2013 at 11:52 AM ^

Blaming anything on Gardner's tendency to turn over the ball is BS.  In the second half, Gardner was not turning the ball over.  Hoke says only one 1st half INT was Gardner's fault and that the fumble on a blind side hit was not his fault (I did not see the first half), so the turnover machine argument does not wash.  In the second half, Gardner looked great.  After we went up 34-24, Borges stopped letting Gardner play effectively and reverted to the smash your head against the wall approach with predictable results.  As someone pointed out, Funchess was not even targeted after the 13:09 mark of the fourth quarter after having rung up 2 TDs and 112 yards up to that point.

When we consistently run into 8, 9 or 10 defenders that we are trying to block with 5 or 6 guys, it is hard to assess Funk, who is not the person calling the plays that consistently ask the OL to do what no OL can do.

Ben from SF

October 16th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^

If Brandon and Hoke are willing to pay the Top 2 salaries for coordinators in college football, here is the name:

Greg Roman, SF 49ers OC

At Stanford, he ran a combo MANBALL / Spread Pass scheme, and turned Toby Gerhart and Andrew Luck into Heisman contenders.

At 49ers, he adopted his scheme and turned Colin Kaepernick into Randall Cunningham minus the turnovers.

However, he doesn't call plays, and he may be willing to take a lateral move to get out of Harbaugh's large shadow.

If we are going to run the Stanford offense, we should hire the architect.  Borges has no feel for it.

Gustavo Fring

October 16th, 2013 at 1:48 PM ^

Number 1, we'd have to pay him an awful lot of money for him to leave the NFL for the same position in college.

Number 2, the guy is going to be a head caoch soon.  Even if we somehow managed to snaggle him for a year, he would be gone very quickly.  It's a wonder he didn't get a position last year. 

Profwoot

October 16th, 2013 at 11:16 AM ^

A call for Borges to be fired is an assumption that he will continue to do the same things, not learn from his mistakes, and not implement the obvious counters and constraints that make any offense go. If he actually does get his head out of his ass on a permanent basis (he only seems to shove it up there a few times per season), then I'm fine with him staying. I still wonder about Funk though.

smitty1983

October 16th, 2013 at 11:17 AM ^

At least the end if the season. The line isn't his fault but i don't think he trusts devin to throw and he shouldn't he leads in int. I think he is handcuffed right now. I don't like the play calling like everyone but let's see the season play out before calling for someone's head.

reshp1

October 16th, 2013 at 11:19 AM ^

Personally, I think he's a bad OC and I want him gone. I'm not sure it's best for the program at this point though. I brought this up yesterday in another thread, but there are some pretty serious consequences to coaching changes. Less so with coordinators than head coaches obviously, but there are always going to be costs in terms of recruiting and time to install new systems.

We're not going to be world beaters this year with or without him. Give him the rest of the year to see if he can get it. He's shown flashes in the past and with more dependable play from the OL, I think some of his shortcomings as a play caller will be mitigated. He'll probably cost us a game here and there going forward, but I'm not sure you can find an OC where that's not true from time to time. It's not like we'll ever be running spread under Hoke, RR isn't walking through that door guys. Whoever we get to replace Al will still be a manball guy, maybe a little more adept at using counters than he is, but if you think we will stop pounding it in I-formation, you're living a pipe dream.

Blueinsconsin

October 16th, 2013 at 11:19 AM ^

is how Borges does not adapt his system to fit the players, but tries to fit the players to the system.  That does not work in the college game.  Maybe by 2015, we'll have everything in place for Al, but his unwillingness to change is inexcusable.  Now, does that mean he should be fired?  I'm not so sure.  It's not a guarantee that adding a new play caller would fix the stubborness problem, it could throw everything into an even worse spiral and put us even further behind.  I would say now, do not fire Borges, but maybe start with Funk?  It's a stick situation b/c of odd layout of this team with youth and inexperience nearly everywhere on the Offensive side of the ball.

BILG

October 16th, 2013 at 11:21 AM ^

is indeed hands off with the offense and coordinator beside his basic philosophy of Manball, then absolutely.  There are many more creative and flexible ways to run a pro style offense than the idiocy we saw last week.  You can be run heavy and physical without running same power I playe 30 times a game.

LSAClassOf2000

October 16th, 2013 at 11:23 AM ^

Althought there are numerous threads which discuss this in a roundabout way, I shall leave this one here because it simply asks the question and in a relatively subdued manner. For reasons of space management on the board, it shall stand as the only such thread today, I think.

I guess a supplemental question to this would be challenging people to look at the issues three-dimensionally and ask this - is it fair to replace him at this juncture? If so, what are the metrics that you look at and what sorts of comparisons are you making? I would be curious to know the thought process of others. 

As for myself, I will be honest and say that I do not have strong feelings one way or the other, but I believe it is fair to attempt to see if you have utilized existing personnel to their full potential. For a coordinator, I think that means trying to understand what the goals are and attempting to align the strategy accordingly. How's that for management speak? By that, of course, not just the Big Ten Championship, but Borges' goals specifically. 

The problems are evident, but I believe there are simpler avenues that wholesale changes of coordinators that should perhaps be explored first - if for no other reason than the relatively continuity of the program as a whole. For example, if you hammer home mere execution of existing plays, see what improves. The more I think about, the more I tend to think that execution is part of what is preventing certain aspects of the playbook from being rolled out. That's a theory, of course, but I believe it is a potential element of the grand explanation, if you will. Furthermore, it's been discussed by a few people, but how about the notion of a QB coach to leave Borges free to further develop the offense as a whole? Maybe not likely, but something to consider perhaps. There is likely a lengthy list of things to look at, not all of them realistic, but then I stress that we aren't doing much more than speculating here. 

Again, I don't have strong feelings about it. Like many here, I am definitely not entirely satisfied, but I wonder if there are simpler fixes that we're overlooking. Actually, we might never know as there is undoubtedly information to which we do not have access.  

ClearEyesFullHart

October 16th, 2013 at 11:25 AM ^

Michigan has punted the ball 22 times this year. That works out to about three and a half punts per game. Behind that offensive line, we should be discussing his raise. This blog is so removed from reality it's comical.

Mr. Rager

October 16th, 2013 at 11:31 AM ^

This post has my nomination for 'dumbest post of the year - 2013'.  Mods, take note of it.

You want to factor in turnovers there, buddy?  Maybe that is why we haven't punted so much.

Also, just from looking at some stats, 21 punts (the real number, per ESPN) is roughly average.  

 

Mr. Rager

October 16th, 2013 at 2:29 PM ^

Clearly I am not the only one who thinks you are raising a dumb point and clearly neglecting to take turnovers into account.  If you stop and think about it for a second or two, you'll realize how dumb your post was.  

In reply to by ClearEyesFullHart

not TOM BRADY

October 16th, 2013 at 11:43 AM ^

He is Gardners QB coach. And Gardner has not improved with reading coverages or footwork at all. Gardner has played 11 games as a starting QB and has shown no improvement and has regressed. Same goes for Denard.

In reply to by ClearEyesFullHart

cbuswolverine

October 16th, 2013 at 12:44 PM ^

Al Borges' playcalling is putting us in far too many third and long situations.  He may not be throwing those picks, but he is certainly setting us up for them to be thrown.

Monocle Smile

October 16th, 2013 at 11:33 AM ^

If you're going to be a dumbass and ignore the 14 turnovers (not including turnovers on downs or the punt fiasco, I think) then at least have the grace not to also bitch at the rest of the blog for not sharing your dumbassery.

ClearEyesFullHart

October 16th, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^

I don't imagine he is TELLING Devin to give the ball to the other team. There were some tipped balls in there, but a lot of those TO's were just...WTF Devin? Absent an offensive line that can run block(or really pass protect for that matter) I'm not really sure what you want the guy to do?

Monocle Smile

October 16th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^

And he's had going on three years with Gardner.

Yes, the offense has weaknesses. It also has strengths. Some stuff has proven to work. Borges is choosing to hack away with the stuff that clearly doesn't.

Furthermore, this is a distraction from the fact that your argument about punting frequency was comically bad. It doesn't matter who caused the 14 turnovers; they still make your comment laughable.