Do you really want Borges replaced?

Submitted by Mr. Rager on

I am bringing this up because the more I think about it, I really don't know what the right answer is.  It probably comes down to how well he coaches for the remainder of the season and the potential candidates that are out there in December/January.  

I am willing to overlook the Manball Massacre if he calls near perfect games to defeat MSU and OSU.  Hell, beat IU this weekend and get those two wins - he could fling his own poo at other staff members in the box for the other three games for all I care.

Bet let's say the remaining games are more Akron/UConn/PSU than ND, and everyone's calling for his head at the end of the season.  Would there be any viable replacement?  

For former UofM staff, the options are limited.  Cam Cameron has Michigan ties, but is in Year 1 at LSU (and is probably happy to be working with MIles) and has a $1M buyout.  Debord is a non-starter.  No one from the RR era is ever coming back.  

Presumably the OCs at the top offensive powerhouses (Baylor, Oregon, TAMU, FSU) have zero chance of coming here.  

There aren't many 'lower level' programs with offenses in the top 25 so far this year: Fresno State, Wyoming, Northern Illinois, Troy, Boise St.  

 

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 8:35 PM ^

Exactly.

Borges has done nothing but scoff at that question from Heiko, in good times and bad. So what makes anyone think he would give a legitimate response to it in the wake of a loss where numerous people (including Heiko's employer) are calling for his head?

 

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 8:46 PM ^

One of the problems with asking nuanced question is that 99% of the time, coaches wont answer them. 

They're not going discuss in depth football strategy, or the ins and outs of their play calling with a reporter, let alone some young kid who works for "one o' them thar blogs." Especially a blog that has constantly ragged on Borges and called for his head.

People getting angry about it need to just let it go. If Michigan had won 100-0 and Heiko asked the question about bubble screens he would have received the same scorn.

Wasn't it coach Gregg Popovich who once said in response to a sideline reporter asking a question about what they were going to do to fix something at half time, "You seriously think I'd tell you?"

umchicago

October 16th, 2013 at 9:15 PM ^

i agree that people get too worked up over press conferences.  personally, i couldn't care less about them.  what i do care about is the performance on saturdays and efforts to improve.  i will give some credit for the "tackle over".  at least they tried something.  but it takes a D coordinator about 5 minutes to counter that.  so where is borges' counter?  it is non-existent.  football is like chess.  the pieces can be moved in multiple directions if the coaches choose to do so to counter the opponent.  unfortuneately, if appears that borges only knows how to play checkers; his pieces can only go in one direction.  he refuses to take advantage of the world of options out there with the pieces that he has; despite the interior line deficiencies.

GoBlueInNYC

October 16th, 2013 at 11:14 AM ^

I don't think the OP was suggesting immediate firing; he specifically talks about salvaging the offense against MSU and OSU.

Anyways, I've been seeing you defend Borges a lot in other threads, and I'm curious what you've seen that inspires you. The offense is, at best, wildly inconsistent. Borges' offense seems all over the place, conceptually, and he seems to be extremely stubborn in the worst possible way. It's a total crapshoot, game to game, whether the offense will be functional or not. Add to that a seemingly total lack of player development (young or not, the O line should not be this bad, and Borges-as-QB-guru has yielded Denard's regression and whatever Gardner's season is shaping up to be).

I actually missed the PSU game (watching Comedy Bang Bang Live was definitely the right call, as it turns out), so I'm not reeling from some post PSU PTSD or anything. I just don't seem any kind of development, cohesion, or positive long term trajectory on the offensive side of the ball at all.

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 11:21 AM ^

If you've been seeing me defend Borges then you've been seeing wrong.

If you've been seeing me say, ""Hey, the play calling has been bad at times and Al is definitely deserving of criticism, but maybe there are more issues here other than 'ZOMG AL SUCKS, FIRE HIM!' and maybe we can criticize Al without being complete dick bags?" that would be much closer to the truth, because it's what I've been repeating ad nauseam.

GoBlueInNYC

October 16th, 2013 at 11:29 AM ^

I guess "defending" is a relative term.

I just haven't seen anything from him over the past two and a half seasons to really warrant any kind of benefit of the doubt. He needs to go, along with Funk. The cycle of hiring coaches kind of dictates that he gets to ride out the season, but he needs to be fired as soon as that final whistle bowls.

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 11:34 AM ^

I mean, almost every single post I've said the play calling has been bad or qustionable, and/or stated that he deserves criticism, but because I don't believe the dude should be fired immediately or that we should have his head on a pike, and because I don't blame him entirely for all of our shortcomings....that makes a "defender?"

OK...

With defenders like that you wouldn't need detractors.

As for the other stuff, he has called a few good games, and his work with Devin last year can't just be ignored. Also, the 11-2 season. He's had his moments for sure, but I think at the very least we can let the rest of this season play out before giving him an official up or down vote.

If Sparty can fix their absolute train wreck of an offense, then maybe there is some hope for us.

GoBlueInNYC

October 16th, 2013 at 11:45 AM ^

I actually meant that "defender as relative term" thing to mean that you just seemed like you were defending him because of the context, not that you actually were. Basically that I misremembered what you said because of where you said it (i.e., surrounded by much more intense criticism).

As for the idea that he's called good games here or there, part of my issue with the offense is how wildly erratic they are. The fact that they can play ND the way they did, then turn around and play Akron they way they did is not a good thing. It's not just his playcalling, but the way he structures the entire offense (i.e., he doesn't). It's the seemingly total lack of preparation. Players are asked to do such a random assortment of plays and aren't really coached up to execute any of them. Then the players get called out by the coaches because they aren't executing. At some point, it's simply a systemic issue of the coaches not teaching the players how to execute.

Calling a few good games does not negate the total lack of coaching going on on the offensive side of the ball. And I'm not sure how anyone can point to Gardner's play as an endorsement. He played his best ball after training for a season as a WR. An offseason with QB coaching from Borges and he's regressed severely.

Sparty's situation is actually one that frustrates me more. They've had a paper thin patch work OLine for a couple of seasons, and they got that figured out midway through last season. They were a wreck that figured out how to get stuff done. Borges is the opposite. Things looked pretty good at one point and are getting much, much worse over time.

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 12:23 PM ^

I agree that the wildly erratic play on offense has been a problem, and needs to be fixed. I definitely put deal of that on the coaching staff.

I also happen to put a good deal of it on the fact that our last two quarterbacks have been wildly erratic. Offenses tend to go as their QBs do, and in our case that has seemed to be true even more so than typical. 

Devin and Denard, for all of their faults, have basically been our entire offense the past few years. If they have a good game we win, if they have a bad game we lose. 

You can certainly blame the coaching staff for failing over the course of 3 seasons to provide them with a competent running game to mitigate their bad games (save for a few short stretches the past 2 years).

It's also no secret that Denard and Devin are not the ideal QBs for our current coaching staff, and they've done a fairly decent job winning games regardless.

I think a case can be made that our offense improved over the course of each season, and hopefully that trend will continue this year. The problem is that improvement has yet to carry over in-between seasons, which is definitely a problem.

I'm not ready to call this season a wash. Even with the offense struggles they have continued to put enough points on the board, and I believe the defense is good enough to keep them in every game from here on out.

GoBlueInNYC

October 16th, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^

Agree about the season not being a wash, and I agree about the defense's role in that.

I'd just say two things: One, Borges deserves some of the blame for Gardner's erratic play, given that he has been his QB coach the past three seasons (or two and a half, considering his moonlighting at WR). Two, I don't think Gardner is a misfit for Borges' offense; just because he can run doesn't mean that he isn't also a tall, downfield passer with a strong arm.

umfanchris

October 16th, 2013 at 1:09 PM ^

I agree with GoBlueInNYC. How can people say that Gardner is not an ideal fit for Borges offense? He is tall (6'4ish), decent weight (210 lbs), has a great arm and throws a great deep ball. Does't that sound like a lot of the QB's we are recuriting now? The fact that he can run should just be an added bonus here.

And I really agree that Borges deserves a lot of the blame for Gardner's erratic play. You can't give a kid 3rd and 8 all the time because borges is too stuborn to think outside of the run your rb into the defensive line on every single first down and most 2nd downs. Borges is setting the kid up to fail. 

Indiana Blue

October 16th, 2013 at 1:01 PM ^

where do you see Borges actually HELPING this team?   Do you think our QB's have improved under his guidance?  DO you believe that he UNDERSTANDS the strengths and WEAKNESSES of this team's offense?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND IF MICHIGAN MAKES A FIRST DOWN ON THAT LAST DRIVE, THEY WIN THE GAME ....  WITHOUT A FG EVEN BEING ATTEMPTED.

Al called THREE STRAIGHT handoffs to Fitz ... when a FIRST DOWN WINS THE GAME.  CASE CLOSED ... HE IS A PROVEN MORON AND IS A LIABILITY TO THE SUCCESS OF THIS TEAM.

 

ClearEyesFullHart

October 16th, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^

A proven moron eh? You might want to take a step back and re-evaluate your perspective. The guy has reasons for everything he has done, and none of them are "moronic". I'll give you this. I think QB coach and OC may be too much for the man. I'd like to see them hire a QB coach/recruiter. If they have to get rid of a coach, Funk would be the leading candidate. Then Brady and Al could tag team the OL, Brady teaching technique and Al teaching assignment.

TheLastHarbaugh

October 16th, 2013 at 8:31 PM ^

Dear Stan, I meant to write you sooner but I just been busy

You said your girlfriend's pregnant now, how far along is she?

Look, I'm really flattered you would call your daughter that

and here's an autograph for your brother,

I wrote it on the Starter cap

I'm sorry I didn't see you at the show, I musta missed you

Don't think I did that shit intentionally just to diss you

But what's this shit you said about you like to cut your wrists too?

I say that shit just clowning dogg,

c'mon - how fucked up is you?

You got some issues Stan, I think you need some counseling

to help your ass from bouncing off the walls when you get down some

And what's this shit about us meant to be together?

That type of shit'll make me not want us to meet each other

I really think you and your girlfriend need each other

or maybe you just need to treat her better

I hope you get to read this letter, I just hope it reaches you in time

before you hurt yourself, I think that you'll be doing just fine

if you relax a little, I'm glad I inspire you but Stan

why are you so mad? Try to understand, that I do want you as a fan

I just don't want you to do some crazy shit

I seen this one shit on the news a couple weeks ago that made me sick

Some dude was drunk and drove his car over a bridge

and had his girlfriend in the trunk, and she was pregnant with his kid

and in the car they found a tape, but they didn't say who it was to

Come to think about it, his name was.. it was you

Damn!
 

Jeff09

October 16th, 2013 at 11:06 AM ^

I would say, only if he's the real reason we are bashing guys into the stacked boxes play after play. It very well could be Hoke forcing him to do this. Unfortunately we don't know who is really making this (exceedingly stupid) call

joeyb

October 17th, 2013 at 1:11 PM ^

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9814990

Also, his other pick in that game wasn't directly at the defender, but he knew he was going to Gallon that entire play. He should have seen that defender breaking on Gallon before he makes that throw. PSU was working to take away Gardner's security blanket all day long and they got 2 picks out of it.

Maybe, the reason they haven't given Devin the authority to check into a bubble screen is because he can't read defenses well enough yet and they are afraid that he will check into it too often and then end up with a Pick 6. 

readyourguard

October 16th, 2013 at 11:15 AM ^

I was listening to Drew Lane on the new 105.1 Detroit Sports station, and he had nothing but positive things to say about Loeffler.  As a matter of fact, Lane spoke about how VaTech used to run the ball right up the gut on first down, just like we do.  Loeffler seems to fixed that problem, and because of it, the offense and QB Logan Thomas are doing better.

Unfortunately, Drew might want to check out the stats to see how effective the VaTech offense is.  In short:  not very.

 

Shop Smart Sho…

October 16th, 2013 at 11:30 AM ^

Va Tech is one of those schools where I tend to look at their offense differently.  When your defense is generally that much better than everyone you play, I get being a little conservative.  Also when your coach was Emperor Palpatine's mentor, you're going to have to deal with being stubborn.

That being said, Loeffler has ended up in some really bad spots for what seem to be his talents.  

I just brought him up because he has the connections that Brady would seem to like, and there is at least the possibility that he is more innovative on offense, but not so old as to be supremely stubborn.

Bombadil

October 16th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ^

I would love Loeffler back at Michigan given his success molding talented quarterbacks into leaders. VT fans keep saying how much more confident Logan Thomas looks this year and how the passing game is smoother. Recievers are running sensible routes that open at different times. VT's running game is a work in progress but Loeffler is working with a limited O-line and very young runningbacks.

UMgradMSUdad

October 16th, 2013 at 7:56 PM ^

Logan Thomas looked pretty damn good two years ago, too.  Last year he looked like crap most of the time.  The primary difference between those two years?  The graduation of most of the OLine (full of 5th year seniors who ended up being drafted).  Logan Thomas didn't regress; his OLine did, and perhaps his receiver corp as well.

Steve in PA

October 16th, 2013 at 12:31 PM ^

 

Auburn was a tire fire because it's Auburn.  HC wanted to switch from spread style to pro style with the same personnel.  It's essentially what RR did to 2 DC's that weren't familiar with running 3-3-5. 

One was smart enough to move on.  The other said, "I'll cash that check and let you touch the beaver"

Loeffler had a good run as OC/Qb coach at temple and has a proven track record as a Qb coach.

 

 

umchicago

October 16th, 2013 at 8:36 PM ^

“Offensively what we’re going to be is this: we’re going to be a pro-style attack that huddles and has the ability to no-huddle,” he said. “And I think that’s really important in college football and in pro football. The reason that we want to huddle is that we want to trade, shift and manipulate the defense and get our best players matched up against their worst players. And when you’re simply no-huddle, you can’t do that. You can’t create those matchups.”

sounds good to me.  if he has success this year, i would gift wrap the OC job to him.

ryebreadboy

October 16th, 2013 at 11:07 AM ^

Good God, yes. I think it's quite clear that he's just not getting it done. I find it ludicrous that RR was criticized for an immediate shift to the spread and fired after three years but there's a sizable contingent still crying to let Borges "get his players" and suggesting we give him FIVE years? This offense is crap. Other teams get it done with young players. No more excuses. Accountability.

othernel

October 16th, 2013 at 11:07 AM ^

Didn't want him replaced, just wanted him to get his head out of his a** when it came to sticking with what clearly isn't working. 

Though after reading this press conference, I'm might be changing my mind. 

akim

October 16th, 2013 at 11:26 AM ^

This is where i am.  I generally like what I've read about borges as a person and it was my hope that he would be innovative and bring in novel concepts on how to use our somewhat misshapen team to exploit weakness in defense and allow our strengths to shine.

This past game crushed that image I had in my mind and now I'm just filled with sad.  The press conference went as expected and was equally depressing, as it was just confirming that there were no revelations from that experience.

I wanted to see Borges get better and improve as a coach, but I'm not seeing that.  if that's not going to happen, maybe there needs to be an alternate to improving...

Blarvey

October 16th, 2013 at 11:08 AM ^

I just want to see a well-executed hurryup with MANBALL sprinkled in when we catch them subbing wrong. I just want to see Devin make checks at the line and have enough time to do so. I just want to see the offense tailored to fit its personnel. 

What confuses me is I was under the impression that was the direction we were headed. I could have sworn I was reading articles when he was hired where Hoke talked about wanting to run the 2-minute drill as their offense.

denardogasm

October 16th, 2013 at 12:25 PM ^

Devin has started what, 11 games? He was practicing as a WR last year and in his first year under RR the QB wasn't even allowed to make checks. The ability to read defenses and make checks at game speed comes from game experience with very few young genius quarterbacks. Borges isn't telling Devin not to make checks. Devin has just been a limp noodle mentally since the ND game.