Do not denigrate the fanbase
If you want to defend the staff, fine. But please don't trot out the old "It's our fanbase that disappoints me the most" line. That might be applicable at some schools, but it isn't here.
We have a great fanbase. Yes, maybe it's a little quieter than it could be on gameday, but the fact is, we turn out in larger numbers than any other fanbase in the country to see our team play. The last two years, PSU had a larger stadium than us, but we still outdrew them - we continued to sell out, while they couldn't do so even when their team went 11-2 back-to-back years. We filled up the place to watch a 3-9 team and a 5-7 team. And even after those disappointments we're still turning out this season. And by and large, this fanbase has been patient. RR has always drawn more cheers than boos when he's been announced. I can tell you that this would not happen at a lot of other schools, given how he's done. When he says we have great fans, he's not kidding. He saw what it was like at WVU. We've treated him with respect and will always do so, even if he ends up losing his job.
People aren't upset because they "aren't fans." If they weren't fans, they wouldn't care. Watching the winningest program in history go 13-19 over three seasons (4-16 in conference) is incredibly painful. It's like watching a friend battle an addiction. You hope the friend (program) will get it together, but at some point you wonder if it will happen, and if not, what can be done to bring things back to the way they were. That is a reasonable reaction. Above all, we're fans of Michigan. I would love for RR to win big here. But at the end of the day, if it's not in our program's interests for him to stay employed, so be it. Don't tell me I'm not a fan for saying that.
October 31st, 2010 at 3:55 PM ^
That's really clever. You do realize that message boards are for writing, right?
October 31st, 2010 at 4:05 PM ^
However, I do not think the board needs a lecture from JMBlue on denigrating the fan base, especially after how many irrational, whiny posts/diaries were pulled overnight.
See Exhibit A.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/best-we-can-do-coming-bye-week
Our fanbase, like many others, includes a lot delusional, irrational jacktards.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:24 PM ^
His is a well-reasoned argument. You may not agree, but he has good points. Your post, meanwhile, is thoughtless, sophomoric, and unoriginal.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:38 PM ^
Comparing cheering for a losing football team to dealing with addiction is a bit over the top, wouldn't you agree?
October 31st, 2010 at 4:50 PM ^
Obviously someone has never trusted a stranger in a dark alley to put something in his mouth in exchange for a taste of sweet, sweet Wolverine football.
October 31st, 2010 at 6:13 PM ^
I got these cheeeseburgers man!
October 31st, 2010 at 3:49 PM ^
Just because some aren't throwing Coach Rod under the bus and calling for his head, doesn't mean we are content with losing.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:42 PM ^
And fans who want better, I'm with you. But anyone who is booing can go fornicate themselves with a sharp garden instrument.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:41 PM ^
= secant^(-1)
October 31st, 2010 at 6:14 PM ^
Hmmm, quite.
October 31st, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^
When I go to the Big House House week after week and hear people from the stands yelling "Gallon you are terrible!(Iowa)" and "Fire RR" Chants I am gonna call out our fan base who have proven to be spoil brats over the last three years and some have zero clue how football is played or coached.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:54 PM ^
Uh, at Notre Dame they throw snowballs at their players. A fire Rodriguez chant is not the end of the world. Maybe the guy who yelled that Gallon was terrible was a bad apple or maybe he was drunk and guessed Gallon couldn't hear him. It could be worse.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:39 PM ^
But they didn't complete many of those throws... and several of the snowballs aimed at ND players hit visiting players by mistake..
October 31st, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^
You can go to anywhere in the country and someone is going to say "some player sucks", and someone is going to say "fire the coach". I mean there are already Florida fans who want Urban Meyer fired and he's won two NC's in 5 years.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:59 PM ^
Imagine what Texas was like this yesterday.
October 31st, 2010 at 10:00 PM ^
Texas is having a down year, kinda how we used to have down years, before they became the norm.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:01 PM ^
Petulant adults are hard to reach...
October 31st, 2010 at 5:11 PM ^
if i could...i would +1,000 to you.
There are some people on this board that are a flat-out embarrassment.
Being a true fan means living with the down times....not just puffing out your chest when things go well.
These kids bust ass all week at school and practice and then play their hearts out on Saturdays. They wont always win.....hell...they wont even always play very well.
Even if they lose.....get over it and get on with your life.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:45 PM ^
"There are some people on this board that are a flat-out embarrassment".
There sure are.
October 31st, 2010 at 6:16 PM ^
I love that the word embarrassed has the words "bare ass" all up in it.
October 31st, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^
Thanks. I feel pretty strongly about the bad apples in our fan base. We have a ton of band wagoners and cry babies. The same folks who cried during Carr's 8-9 win seasons.
Buck the Fuck up people. Times are tough... This is my new motto.
October 31st, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^
October 31st, 2010 at 3:57 PM ^
The original post is true for 90% of Michigan fans. What other school would go 4-16 in Big 10 play and draw 110K plus every game?
October 31st, 2010 at 3:58 PM ^
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/best-we-can-do-coming-bye-week
Add "deserve better" to "we must have talent, we're Michigan" or "Coach XYZ never would have let this happen" and assorted other nonsensical rants from uninformed "fans" and any measured criticism is being brought upon themselves. Everyone is upset, but a large portion of our fanbase (and any fanbase for that matter) is made up of obnoxious morons.
And I don't think anyone has questioned your fandom and would be surprised to find out who has.
November 1st, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
Saturday night I have to admit I broke down and was thinking the "we are Michigan" "we must have talent" and was cursing Gallons name when he knocked the late kickoff out at the two (regarding comments above). After the game, I slept it off, played some NCAA 2009 football (not to toot my own horn Gerg, but my EMU defense is #1 in the country running the nickel, HA!) and stayed away from any boards till last night. Luckily, when I logged back on, Mispogen greeted me with a very telling Dear Diary post, that cleansed my wounds like a nice dose of Iodine. And now I am still excited to go to next weeks game (despite my expectations greatly reduced, oh well). Anyways, I would just go easy on both sides of spectrum right now. There were a lot of fans standing (hanging?) on the edge before the game, that had to let go. Hell I was 20 ft from the edge and almost fell off. Where is jaja and his yahoo talk posts when you need one.
Atleast my wife got a good laugh out of me on one of the plays. I believe it was a fourth and 1 late in the game where we needed a stop (fo reals?). Royster was hit by two guys (atleast one was a defensive lineman) at the line of scrimmage for a sure loss, only to spin and stretch to convert. My reaction went YES!NO!FUUUUCK! never has such glee turned to scorn so quickly. And yes I know, "cul story bro".
October 31st, 2010 at 4:31 PM ^
We all see the same things and comment on them weekly....and unfortunately the plot to this movie hasn't really changed all year. In summary,
1) RR is an offensive genious....Yep, with all the negative that has taken place during the last 3 weeks, it can't be overlooked that this offense is amazing. The spred works in the Big Ten.
2) RR, by his own admission, does not spend a lot of time with the defense, nor is he that interested in it from a shematic perspective. He chooses to allow a DC to run the show. But when the defense is this bad, the HC is forced to take notice as it may cost him his job.
3) The defense is young. The secondary is decimated. They do not seem to be getting any better. GERG is afraid to run any blitzes and has unsuccessfully run a prevent defense all year. As untalented and young as this defense is, UM coaches have somehow found a way to make them underachieve.
So we are left at a crossroads....
Those that say keep RR, the offense is working, he needs more time, the youth and attrition on defense is not his fault, and changing course now will throw the program back another 5 years.
Then there are those that respond, RR is ultimately responsible for the entire program, he fired Schaefer, hired GERG, and didn't recruit enough defense because he was focused on building his spread the first two years. A defense this bad is simply "unacceptable" at Michigan.
The truth is...if we take out the extremists on both sides (Those that were anti-RR [Michigan Man Cronies] from day 1, and the RR apologists [Blaming Lloyd Carr for losses that take place into perpetuity) both camps are right.
RR has proven his offense can work in the Big Ten, but he has not proven he can be a successful coach in the Big Ten. So Mr. Brandon....Does he deserve more time?
October 31st, 2010 at 4:52 PM ^
And by and large, this fanbase has been patient.
Not anymore. It's ridiculous. The reactionists calling for Rodriguez's head on a platter should just relax and let the rest of the season play out. We'll see how things are after the next four games.
October 31st, 2010 at 7:28 PM ^
This is the kind of stuff that the poster is talking about, I think. People using the terms 'uninformed,' 'reactionary,' etc to describe the fans that are unhappy with RR are the ones that are ridiculous. Three years of embarassment does not qualify as reactionary. Anyone that wanted him fired after his first year would qualify, but not anymore. Secondly, what magical information do you have that tells you that RR is doing such a great job? Let me take a wild guess. "Look how young we are, the attrition, Lloyd Carr stopped recruiting, blah blah blah, right? So by next years these guys that are giving up 40 points a game are suddenly going to be pitching shutouts, right? At best you are hoping that they will approve to 30 points a game and our offense will just win a bunch of shootouts. Not exactly what I am hoping for as a program. If you are a fan of RR, fine, defend him with your facts and opinions, but try to do it without degrading the rest of us.
October 31st, 2010 at 8:23 PM ^
I think calling people who are done with RR "reactionary" is no longer accurate. But you sit there acting like anyone who isn't there yet is simply 1) blaming Lloyd and 2) talking about attrition/youth (which is really only happening on MGoBlog, and that's because it's a rational argument). How is that any different?
Particularly since you've been whining about this for weeks, I implore you: chill UMDad! You're finally in the majority! And a preponderance of the evidence suggests you're right! I think it's time for you to develop a thicker skin about people "degrading" you (which, LOL) by calling those who share your opinions non-offensive names and rejoice that your beliefs about RR have been vindicated. Happy day!
October 31st, 2010 at 9:10 PM ^
I am not whining, but I have been bringing this up for a while now. One of the things that I used to enjoy the most at UofM was the ability to intelligently discuss issues with people of diffent opinions without the conversation degrading into name calling and cliches. Unless, of course, you were talking with a member of BAMN or an equivalent. The fact of the matter is, I have no problem with the people here who disagree with me, but I have a major problem with the people who seem to feel the need to argue their own points by trivializing everyone else. I keep telling myself that it doesn't do any good to bring this up because the people doing it are obviously not listening, but I can't seem to stop. I like this blog and if just becomes a group of like minded people shouting down everyone else then I will be very bummed.
October 31st, 2010 at 9:33 PM ^
So how did white_tiger argue his point by "trivializing everyone else"? He said "The reactionists calling for Rodriguez's head on a platter should just relax and let the rest of the season play out. We'll see how things are after the next four games."
All he saying is RR isn't going anywhere for atleast the next 4 games, so step back from the ledge for a minute and see what happens. It appeared to me that for some reason, you felt like replying to his comment was a good time to talk about a whole lot that was nowhere near relevant to anything he said.
November 1st, 2010 at 9:05 AM ^
I was responding to both the reactionary comment by white tiger, and the uniformed obnoxious moron comment int eh post above him.
November 1st, 2010 at 4:19 PM ^
I'm not saying that all the people who are calling for Rodrioguez's head are reactionists, moreover that many of the fans I watch and discuss Michigan football with went from solid Rodriguez supporters to deadset anti-Rodriguez after two quarters of football. That's reactionary, and there seems to be a lot of that.
November 1st, 2010 at 7:06 PM ^
Regardless of who you were responding to, my point still stands. Explain to me how this isn't supporting your argument by trivializing the opinion of someone else?
Let me take a wild guess. "Look how young we are, the attrition, Lloyd Carr stopped recruiting, blah blah blah, right?
I think it may be time to step off the soap box there dad.
November 1st, 2010 at 12:26 AM ^
It seems like the problem is that up to this point (or relatively recently), the "FIRE RR NOW" crowd was limited to the more mouth-breathing segments of the fanbase. Thus, certain stereotypes (many accurate) sprung up to describe that group. Now that the disaster has continued, things have shifted, but you have to understand that those who want RR to get more time must believe that those who don't are, by definition, reactionary.
My issue is that nothing has changed since UMass - if you were ready to send him packing then, fine. But this defense is the hand he was dealt (and dealt himself to some rather significant degree), and nothing has changed since that game, so being all UNACCEPTABLE now is inconsistent. I'm ready to hear anybody explain to me who we can bring in that will make things better on D next year or at a minimum without a doubt in 2012. If nobody can, I think you probably stick with a top-3 offense run by a 19 year old and give the D time to stop being such freshmen about everything. Oh, and fire GERG and all that.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
doesn't bother me as a whole. Obviously. It's the people who don't even take the time to learn a little bit about what they're spouting off about who bother me.
Compared to most fanbases I think we are much more rational except when it comes to matters of tradition. I can handle honest criticism of the coach. I can't handle people who wrote him off from the beginning because he wasn't a "Michigan Man" or they thought he was some sort of WV hick.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^
To everyone that thinks our fanbase is made up of morons, I ask you this. Do you think that fans who question whether or not the current regime will be successful are morons? And I know that some people do it in a classy way, and some people do it in a dick way, but do you think the critics of RR have a point?
October 31st, 2010 at 5:03 PM ^
Some critics do, some critics don't. There are a lot of morons, and there are a lot of rational people. We have a lot of fans, there will be moronic fans, and rational fans. Some people who support Rodriguez are morons, and some are rational. Some people who are fed up with Rodriguez are morons, and some are rational. It just so happens that the morons are the loudest, and usually the most ignorant. Most of the morons want Rodriguez gone.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:14 PM ^
It has nothing to do with the fact that they're critics and everything to do with what they're criticizing.
-Criticizing his emphasis solely on offense since he's been here in both his effort and his recruiting? Fair.
-Criticizing his bloodlines and coaching background simply because "Michigan is better than that?" Moronic and ripe for a tongue lashing.
October 31st, 2010 at 4:55 PM ^
"But at the end of the day, if it's not in our program's interests for him to stay employed, so be it. Don't tell me I'm not a fan for saying that."
That's fair, jmblue. No argument here ... RichRod has hurt himself plenty.
To the main point: Sure, the fans are filling the stadium. But, it's almost common knowledge that some of them (who wanted Les Miles / Ron English / whomever to be the coach) had their guns pointed at RichRod from the very beginning.
As well, there are the ones (some of them high-point members here) who continue to act as though Rodriguez drove a fully loaded Escalade into a telephone pole when he was given the controls. Remember Brian's recent post about the '07 recruiting class? A couple of those people jumped (unnecessarily) to Lloyd's defense immediately. (I say unnecessarily because Lloyd wasn't directly blamed. Facts were simply presented.) To these people, Greg Banks (an '06 member, actually, in case that would matter here) would have risen to All Big Ten status had it not been for the regime change. It's *all* coaching, see? Nothing to do with talent ... (Sorry, Greg, if you're reading this. Nothing personal ...) Again, though, that's only part of RichRod's problems. He's the one who (for example) hired GERG.
I feel comfortable saying that our fan base is more spoiled and impatient than average.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^
Nooooooo. That post had a subheading labeled "Blamey section". I don't know how you can say it wasn't shifting the blame to Carr. And those posters were saying it was bullshit that Brian left little to no room for the impact of coaching, they weren't saying coaching was all that mattered.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:47 PM ^
Have good defenses year after year. It's because they rarely play underclassmen and when they do it's because of need/injury.
<br>
<br>We have no upperclassmen on the depth chart in the secondary and while part of that is on the defensive staff there is only so much you can do with true freshmen everywhere.
<br>
<br>Some of it is attributable to Carr until all of his classes are gone. When it's RRs first full class it's all on him but the cupboard was bare and youre just as big of an apologist if you can't blame Lloyd for that because the depth chart he left us with Is/was a shame....
October 31st, 2010 at 5:58 PM ^
Did you completely skip the last sentence of that post? I'll reproduce it here for you:
those posters were saying it was bullshit that Brian left little to no room for the impact of coaching, they weren't saying coaching was all that mattered.
Nobody is saying it's all Rodriguez's fault. I'm saying the dismal returns from Carr's last guys can't all be blamedon a guy who coached them for either one year or not at all.
October 31st, 2010 at 7:54 PM ^
MJC, I just read that post again and I see no direct blame assigned. I'd agree that the classes are targeted and that some blame was shifted away from Rodriguez, but that's not the same as blaming Lloyd directly. (I realize I'm splitting hairs here.)
I put all in *s for effect. I know the other people didn't say coaching was everything.
Anyway, are we to ignore the end results of '05, '06, and '07? (Not saying that you're making that suggestion ... just asking.) Does Rodriguez get credit for developing Brandon Graham and Stevie Brown (ditto)?
October 31st, 2010 at 5:17 PM ^
I agree that some fans had their guns pointed at RRod from the start and it hurts me that he keeps giving them bullets.
RRod needs to roll some heads this time.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:15 PM ^
fans yelling fire Rodrigez with prospective recriuts in the stands sends a message to the wrong audience. So I'm not so much down with fans that show their a$$e$ at the big house. While your ire and disatisfaction of our win totals is appreciated
Voicing your displeasure at the coach while these young people who could potentially change the direction of the program are "checking things out" well you see the irony.
The players on the field hear that crap. Even Mr. Grady made a very telling statement I paraphrase take your fandom someplace else and I agree. I cannot tell another person how to express themselves, however please think about the consequenses when these jeers and boos calling for a man to lose his job is heard by his children, prospective recruits, active players, and other fans in general.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:57 PM ^
I remember when Roh's father posted here a while back saying that recruits read these boards and we need to temper our comments accordingly. So, you can't say anything at the game nor on line lest we influence a potential recruit.
I am not sure how you get your position across.
There is too much invested in this program on every imaginable level to accept mediocrity. I have complete faith that Dave Brandon has the ability to evaluate the program and make the requisite changes. It will be interesting to hear if Brandon makes a statement. So far, the only thing I have heard at the start of the season is that Rodriguez is our coach this year. I suspect that if there is no affirmation of that fact, the silence will be deafening.
October 31st, 2010 at 6:40 PM ^
just did. I know the recruits read message boards. I just believe it is different seeing this guy or woman decked out in Michigan gear screaming out Fire Rich Rod has a different dynamic than annoymous message board guy that post here or other sites.
If a person is a fan of a team. Is not the coach as much a part of a team? So in booing the coach, fire the coach in essence a "fan" is really telling a player you are stupid for being coached by this guy, He does not know what he's doing and by extention you don't either. That's my take on it from the father of a coach. These kids they really hate that and lose that connection of support and appreciation from the fan base. All fans can make their choice just remember the consequenses of that choice.
October 31st, 2010 at 5:33 PM ^
spoiled rotten and some of them are acting like it.