Except Minnesota is in the west
this week in unintentionally grim-sounding recruiting headlines
Except Minnesota is in the west
Anybody know if this will impact basketball? If so, the balance of power is more skewed than in football.
IIRC, the division are limited to football only since there are so many less games. For Basketball I'd assume we'd continue to do something as close to a round-robin as possible, or similar to how the schedule games currently.
Imagine Michigan, MSU, Ohio, and Indiana in one division...
Even Rutgers and Maryland can be good at basketball, from time to time. That'd be insane.
Especially compared to Iowa, Nebraska, and Northwestern in the other division...
Iowa was consistently a #3/#4 seed in the tournament not so long ago.
Some people in this thread have very short memories concerning both basketball and football...
Their basketball program has a storied history. Len Bias? Steve Francis? Len Elmore anyone? Indiana should go west. Too much storied tradition in one grouping and not enough in the other is not good over the long haul. On the football side lesser impact although Purdue is clearly the "better" program.
How will the divisions have any effect on basketball?
Hmm....I think you're underselling Maryland and wildly overrating Rutgers.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.
The only benefit I see the conference gaining from divisional format in basketball is reduced travel cost, but the total lack of balance in competitiveness isn't worth it. Last I heard there were rumors that the Big Ten did want to expand to a 20 game conference slate to welcome Rutgers and Maryland.
Purdue will be good again. They were a whole lot better than UM up until two years ago.
but I'm not excited at all about playing Rutgers and Maryland every year except for the fact that they're gimme-wins
On the bright side, it can't hurt Michigan's recruiting on the East Coast and Mid-Atlantic if we're playing out there every other year.
We pulled DG and are now in on Da'Shawn Hand who we all know are both from VA. Being able to tell them (and all of the other D1 recruits that come out of VA every year) that we play in MD, PA and NJ every season will surely make it easier to commit to play in Ann Arbor
Same would apply to other recruits from Maryland and Pennsylvania as well. I'd imagine OSU and Michigan will have a stronger pull on east coast guys from here on
I agree, would much rather play Wisconsin/Iowa/Minnesota/Illinois... well, pretty much anyone besides Maryland or Rutgers, but with Big Ten money coming in their football programs should improve. Not sure if they will ever compete with the best in the conference, but improve nonetheless.
wow the East is absolutely stacked.
Has to be jumping up and down with joy right now. Northwestern has to pretty happy as well. This almost guarantees a 40 some % chance of a big ten title game each year, for the next 5 give or take, before the season even starts.
Go away sparty. Little Brown Jug > Paul Bunyan.
Even though I love both.
There are no divisions in basketball.
Rutgers traditional food is apparently this sandwich, which will look awesome or loathsome depending on your attitude toward injesting 1000% of your RDA of saturated fat.
I believe that is fries, mozzerella sticks, melted cheese, burger and gyro meat on Italian bread. They're sold from aptly named "grease trucks."
CRAB CAKES AND FOOTBALL! THAT'S WHAT MARYLAND DOES!!
By not administering daylight savings time, Indiana was in either time zone for half the year. This debate about which one should be grouped with schools in the other time zone wouldn't be happening if they had just stuck with it. I'll bet the state legislature feels silly now for giving into the man.
It's more difficult, sure. But with ND going off the schedule for some length of time, I like having PSU step in as the future third rivalry to eventually replace them. I don't think they're going to be down for long either, assuming they can get someone quality to replace O'Brien when he leaves. And I think the sanctions are reduced some time in the next year. I also believe Sparty is brought back down quickly (though unfortunately they'll still have a good defense next season), evening out the competition.
One tough game against PSU (when they bounce back) and one very tough game against Ohio isn't that much, again considering ND is off the schedule.
"Champions of the west" are in the East Division. Hmmmm.
No worse than the "Leaders and Best" not being in the Leaders Division.
When we beat the west champsin the title gem no?
Completely basing this on my bias, being that I live in St Louis now I hate Michigan being in the East Division. I travel to a lot of games, but Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Maryland aren't exactly in driving distance. Sadly I hope they add 2 more teams and do it by competitive balance. As of right now I see the East Division being like the Big 12 South division was and running the conference.
Michigan has won one National Championship in my lifetime. I'm all for change if it means that the Wolverines have a better chance of winning another one while I am still alive. Statistically, I should live another 20 years or so. If I am lucky, I will be fully aware of my surroundings most of those years.
So, simply from a selfish standpoint, I like these changes. The game is moving toward a model with super-conferences and a bona fide playoff. The Big Ten's recruiting footprint is about to expand, and could expand even more if they go to GA and/or FL for their next members.
I would prefer a couple more potential tomato cans, but I would be the happiest to see a model where the Big Ten champion has a chance to "tee it up" on a neutral field with a chance to win a true National Championship at the end of the season.
The East is the tougher division, but we are still better off. I had nightmares about Ohio State and Penn State being the glamor programs in the talent-rich and media-centered East, while we languished isolated in the West with Sparty.
Hey Big Ten, thanks for finally listening and doing what us lowly fans have been pleading with you to do for two years! Thanks again. Much appreciated.
Ha! Ha! Just kidding. We know that the fans are the furthest thing from your mind and you are really doing this so that you can get the BTN on NY/NJ and DC/Baltimore basic cable by offering up Michigan and Ohio State on an every-year basis. It's all about the money.
I guess we just got lucky that common sense and B1G $$$ happened to align by chance.
To all the posters lamenting the fact that the East is clearly tougher: who cares?
Winning a B1G championship is approximately equally difficult no matter which division we are in. If the East is tougher, then it's harder for us to make the B1G championship game, but it's easier for us to win it since the team coming out of the West will be weaker. The only way an imbalance in divisional strength hurts is if you care about how many B1G championship games we make, not how many we win.
Considering our real rivalries (sorry, Minnesota) are with two of the better teams in the B1G, there is no way to both play them every year and avoid competing with them for a divisional crown every year. I'd rather have it this way than have us play OSU, have MSU play Indiana, and compare our records at the end of the year.
And then it's even.
This likely is a strange and unscientific way of doing it, but I took the records of all these schools since 2000 and managed to get an average performance for each, and then put each team as well as the average season record into their proposed divisions as if it were a hyopthetical season.
If Purdue is in the East, there is noted imbalance in the overall historic performance - this hypothetical division would have a win percentage of 0.620, compared to Indiana dragging the West down a bit with 0.544 overall.
If you switch the two schools and put Indiana in the East, suddenly the East has only a slight edge - 0.588 to 0.576, to be exact. It seems to lend a little credence to the notion of competitive parity among divisions and division members (for in that scenario, Illinois is the only team in the West averaging a sub-.400 season) as an argument for putting Indiana in the East. Obviously, however, it isn't the only consideration.
In the end, I suspect we'll see Purdue in the west with Indiana in the east for the short-term future while the conference is still at 14 teams.
If the B1G goes to 16 teams (say Virginia and North Carolina) and both programs come from the ACC, then Indiana will probably head west if the conference opts to use a setup with two permanent 8-team divisions.
if the B1G goes to four 4-team pods, then we'd likely see the following:
Pod A - Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Pod B - Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern
Pod C - Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State
Pod D - Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina
Like the WAC from the mid-90s two pods (A & C) would be permanently assigned to two different division while pods B & D rotate between the two divisions. Teams would play the three other programs in their pod each year and the teams in the other pods two times every four years.
If the B1G goes to 18 teams (add Duke and Georgia Tech) with both programs coming from the ACC, then the B1G can have two 9-team divisions:
West - Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan State
East - Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech
If the conference opts to go to ten conference games with this lineup, it means it'll take ten years to cycle through the teams in the west if home-and-home series are scheduled.
With ten conference games and a pod system, the rotation is much quicker---just under six years to make sure each team plays the other twice. We'd have two 5-team pods and two 4-team pods with the two smaller pods rotating between divisions:
Pod A - Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan State
Pod B - Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
Pod C - Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland
Pod D - Georgia Tech, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia
If the Big Ten were to go to 20 teams (add Florida State and Notre Dame), then it's very likely a pod system with four 5-team pods would be in place. It would take six years for every team to play one another home-and-home with divisions rotating every two years with a nine-game conference schedule.
Pod A - Nebraska, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois
Pod B - Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana
Pod C - Purdue, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland
Pod D - Florida State, Georgia Tech, Duke, North Carolina, Virginia
Years 1 & 2 (Pods A/B and Pods C/D)
Division 1 - Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Division 2 - Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Maryland, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Virginia
Years 3 & 4 (Pods A/C and B/D)
Division 1 - Illinois, Iowa, Maryland, Minnesota, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin
Division 2 - Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, North Carolina, Northwestern, Ohio State, Virginia
Years 5 & 6 (Pods A/D and B/C)
Division 1 - Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, North Carolina, Virginia, Wisconsin
Division 2 - Indiana, Maryland, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers
It was only a matter of time before the pod people arrived.
Pod system is more complicated than the Physics 201 class I had.
theyre never getting implemented.
Precisely 0 american sports have pod systems. Its too complicated to sell to the masses.
I see more people proposing them here than anywhere on the internet
Keep in mind once we go to 9 or 10 conference games we will still play 2 or 3 teams from the other division depending on expansion.
Also, has anyone talked to any sparties about this? They're probably all pooping their pants.
*3 or 4 teams from the other division. 7 teams in our division means 6 games.
Feels like IU. Otherwise, the worst team in the East is probably Rutgers or Maryland, two teams that would be in the top half of the other division. Sucks for IU, but Purdue along with everyone else would be insane.
I actually think IU is going to be better than Purdue if they can hold on to Wilson. Right now, they're the only Big 10 team running a variation of the Air Raid. It's a fun system to play and it's shown it can turn middlling recruits into big stat quarterbacks. They played OSU and MSU very close last year. Now, it's doubtful they ever recruit enough D to contend (and this may cost them Wilson if he can get them to mediocre) but their offense is going to be good enough to be a pain to play against.
As for Purdue, people say Hazel is a good coach but the last Tressel -> MAC -> Big 10 offensive coach (Beckman) has been a total flop. I'm in wait and see mode about him.
Since Purdue is further west (barely), put them in the west division. I know, that's too simple, sorry.
I'd like to comment that I am very glad Northwestern is not in our division. They are the team I most like to cheer for besides Michigan, and now that they aren't in our division, it is easier to do. Also, I really believe they are on an upswing and will more often than not be in the divisional championship discussion with who is currently in that division. I see Wiscy moving back down, Nebraska being the top team, and a bunch of very average teams that will produce a good team on occassion.
My divisions have always been, especially once we added two more ugly-ass red teams with Rutgers and Maryland:
Ohio State Penn State
Yes, scarlet, crimson, cardinal, and even maroon are all just types of red (Minnesota is a little bit of a stretch, but close enough).
Too many of the prominent football teams around the nation are red teams, and I'm just sick of it.
Basketball, on the other hand, is often dominated by blue teams more than red ones (UK, KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA, UCONN, etc)
first one being how ironic that after only 2 years in the league, we'd end up in the most "old school" division of the B1G, with 6 of the conference's 7 oldest members, while the East will have 5 of the 6 newest members (if you consider OSU's 1912 entry as "new").
Second, I'll personally miss having Michigan as our main competitive rival within the division. Wisconsin has done quite well lately--better than NU or UM the last 10 years--but it's a lot more fun competing against a program that measures its success over a century. I think most Nebraska fans feel the same. But we're really not attached to any particular B1G team and good for Michigan getting The Game back the way you want it.
Third, give me another red team to play against, this will be our first year we get to play Indiana, would hate to see that taken away after only 1 game. This year's schedule with them and Illinois will definitely help our chances of repeating in the Legends.
As far as overall divisional strength, I side with those that say go with geography and let the power balance ebb and flow over time.
Look forward to competing with you guys this year and I always enjoy the posting and content on mgoblog, there's always something worth reading including lots of non-sports topics.
I want this with protected Minnesota. I love the LBJ.
Tat game wasn't protected then either.