Disputing "Denard Will Never Last The Season"

Submitted by Ziff72 on

Records

  • One of three quarterbacks in Division 1-A history to rush for 3,000 and pass for 4,000 yards in a career
  • 13th player in NCAA to rush and pass for 1,000 in a season (1,115 rushing, 1,510 passing)
  • Nebraska career total offense leader with 7,915 yards
  • Former Nebraska single-season total offense leader with 2,688 yards
  • Former Nebraska single-game total offense record of 360 yards
  • Nebraska career total-offense touchdown leader with 88
  • Owns Nebraska career record for most rushing yards by a quarterback (3,434)
  • NCAA record for most career rushing TDs by a quarterback (59)
  • Most rushing attempts by a Husker quarterback (648)
  • Former Nebraska total TD passes in a game (5 vs. Iowa)
  • Most rushing TDs in a game by a quarterback (4 vs. Kansas)
  • Set a QB record for most rushing TDs in a season (20)
  • Set school records in 2001 for most rushing attempts in a season for a QB (203)
  • Most total offense yards by a sophomore (2,158)
  • Tied an NCAA record by scoring a TD via run, pass, reception in the same game (vs. Cal, 1999)
  • Nebraska school record longest run from scrimmage, 95 yards (vs. Missouri, 2001)

These are the records for  Eric Crouch Heisman Award Winner

His size per the NFL Combine  5'11 195lbs 4.47 40

Next time some idiot spews some crap about Denard take these stats and jam it up their ass.

willywill9

September 15th, 2010 at 11:24 AM ^

He also chimed in talking about the things he did to stay healthy (e.g. Continue working out 3-4 times a week, continue to practice.  He seemed to be adamant about not missing workouts.  Also, massages and such.  I wonder who did the massaging.

UMaD

September 15th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^

because Denard also takes hits as a QB, in the pocket, trying to pass -- more open to big shots.

I realize people are annoyed with hearing about Denard's injury risk, but we don't have to go overboard. 

Ringer weighed more than Robinson (at least where I looked) and was shorter...these two things make him more stout and therefore slightly less likely to get hurt.  Ringer also didn't get sacked or nailed after he delivered a pass off his back foot.

Not saying Denard will get hurt...just saying lets be rational about the risk, even if its being overstated by others.

COB

September 15th, 2010 at 3:43 PM ^

the pure contact with the D.  It is the means in which the contact occurs.  A RB lowering his shoulder and initiating contact is not what you want DR to be doing or he will get hurt.  The hits he will take will be awkward side tackles and hits in the pocket.  I'm not saying he WILL get hurt, but compare him only to QB's, a stacked RB initiating hits is not the same.  Randel El, great example.  I think that was what he was saying.

jmblue

September 15th, 2010 at 3:50 PM ^

But because Denard is so quick and athletic, he takes considerably fewer hits in the pocket than a stationary QB.  How many times did he get hit on a pass attempt the first two games?  I think you can count them on one hand.   And that's the thing.  That's really where QBs get hurt - in the pocket, when they're looking downfield and then a defensive player blindsides them.  When Denard's running downfield, he can see the defenders coming and can brace himself.  He might get nicked up here and there but he's not that likely to get seriously injured on those plays.

You're not going to see that many blitzes thrown our way this season.  It's too risky for the defense.  If he gets by that first wave, the D has taken itself out of position and there will be tons of room for him to run.  And because he's such a running threat, teams basically have to play zone coverage in the secondary.  (If they dare to play man, we'll just send our WRs deep and take their CBs out of the play, opening up the run on the outside.)  So on most pass plays, our receivers just have to find a seam in the zone and Denard can quickly get it to them.  You won't see him hold on to the ball for a long time in the pocket.  That, too, cuts down on the risk of getting hit. 

So you have a guy who is too fast for most defenders to catch AND who gets rid of the ball quickly on most pass plays.  Where is he going to take big hits?

ThWard

September 15th, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^

Last night, I happened to be perusing the stats of certain high volume QBs (by rushing attempt, obviously) - and Crouch (along with Pat White, and Tommie Frazier) was the number one comparison I came up with for Denard.

briangoblue

September 15th, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^

Somehow, someway...he survived.  /s

career stats:

  • Record as starter: 33-3 (91.7%)
  • National Championships: 2
  • Big Eight Conference Championships: 4
  • Career Passing Statistics - includes bowl game stats: 250-of-509 passing (49.1%), 4,003 yards, 47 TD, 18 INT, 76 LP
  • Career Rushing Statistics - includes bowl game stats: 386 carries, 2,263 yards (5.9 ypc), 36 TD, 75 LP
  • Senior Statistics - includes bowl game stats (Heisman Trophy runner-up): Passing Statistics, 98-for-177 passing (55.4%), 1,467 yards, 18 TD, 6 INT, 76 LP; Rushing Statistics, 113 carries, 803 yards (7.1 ypc), 16 TD, 75 LP

cm2010

September 15th, 2010 at 11:58 AM ^

Frazier missed serious time in the 1994 season with blood clots in his leg (which prevented him from being drafted) and needed Brook Berringer (RIP) to help lead the team to an undefeated season. With that said, he didn't miss time because of the hits he took, but because of a freak medical condition.

Blue in sec country

September 15th, 2010 at 11:34 AM ^

Good info. For some reason I haven't been overly concerned with his carries. He's not take too many solid hits. When he does he is ready for it(running) and not sitting in the pocket getting blindsided. I do think it will be reduced once fitz gets into the mix. All the highlights have shown him hitting the hole hard and shaw does more dancing and try to make something out of nothing when he should have dropped his shoulder and got what he could. Besides the speed I think that's the difference between denards level of success vs our rb. It will work out.

marco dane

September 15th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^

EC and NE hung one on OU in their annual meeting this particular season...ol fashion butt whuppin. The type that can only be administered behind a woodshed for maxium effect.

Pai Mei

September 15th, 2010 at 11:41 AM ^

There is an Article on Rivals called "The Hit List" that  goes over the amount of hits Denard has taken. Good article and has me feeling better about Denard running a lot.

He is usually dragged to the ground without a taking a big hit.

Link: http://goo.gl/KpQF

troublet1969

September 15th, 2010 at 11:42 AM ^

I see your revised the title of this post.....

 

Great post...the title did throw me off for a second....but I am glad that I made the choice to look.  I had forgotten about Mr. Frost.  The fact that the kid was such a dominant force in the Big 12 should not be overlooked.  He is definately a little slower than Denard but a real physical player for his position...I hated Nebraska back then....LOL

S FL Wolverine

September 15th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^

We should all just be happy that Denard has been so impressive that there aren't any big criticisms of his game.  The only ammo other fans have is "he's gonna get hurt!".  It's amazing how simplistic memes like this get born and repeated time and time again.  You even hear MSM journalists repeating it, which shows you where they really get their opinions from.  Do they do any research to back it up?  Of course not.  They get paid just to have opinions and to sound decisive when they deliver them, not to have real facts to back them up.  The commentators I respect, like Herbie for example, seem to do their own thinking and research and come armed with facts to counter the easy, gut-feel opinions.

BTW, was watching the Big Ten network the other day before the ND game.  It's a half hour recap show of the previous week in the B10, and the host brings up this meme.  His sidekick (not sure of his name) says, "yeah, that sounds logical but I have a three word rebuttal for you...Antwaan Randle El".  The host had no comment back because the facts did not fit his meme.  He certainly did not have accumulated stats to prove that Randle El was the exception, and that QB's who carry that much tend to get hurt more often than others (which we've seen refuted on this blog by others).  It's really just lazy journalism, and more suprising since these guys have access to research staffs who could, you know, check out the claim to see if it has statistical merit.  Of course, it's better for ratings to keep this kind of an idea alive, with the implication that the Rich Rod they all know and hate doesn't care about the health of his players. Controversy.   Of course, don't remember discussion of this topic when Kelly put Cirst back in the game with a concussion.

notYOURmom

September 15th, 2010 at 11:53 AM ^

Sure, ok, there are ready examples of Denard-sized quarterbacks making it through their careers with all limbs intact and both eyes working properly, but that is not your best ammunition. 

It is 'sampling on the dependent variable' - looking at successful cases only and drawing a conclusion about what drives success. 

We wanna know "is a QB who rushes a lot more likely than a QB who rushes less to get injured" - and "does the relationship between # rushes and injury get stronger with quarterbacks of modest size".  So, we have to have both the teflon and the wounded QBs in the analysis, and both the compact and the Gigantor QBs - not JUST the teflon compact ones (as in the above examples).

The first question has been asked and answered more scientifically on this board already in broad terms: (A: spread quarterbacks do ok after all).  It would be nice if someone could show a more fine-grained analysis - maybe the cumulative likelihood of injury does not rise much after  a certain number of rushes per game or per season.  If someone would tell me where to get the data I would happily work it out - who has their hands on a comprehensive injury dataset?  Anyone?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Wolfman

September 15th, 2010 at 1:45 PM ^

reaction that I tried to outline above. A back - doesn't have to be a qb or rb - that is able to immediately synthesize the information his eyes send to his brain, is less likely to be injured than a back who is not. That is why I drew the comparison with Barry. Both were/are able to do this. It's extremely rare. Science, logic, whatever your barometer, all should lead to the conclusion that the back(s) that has this truly rare combination is far less likely for massive collision than those who cannot process the information at the exact time they're in molion.

It is based much like the theory that the student who is quickest to grasp the immediate problem, synthesize the steps toward resolution of same, is far more likely to come up with the correct answer in far less time than a student who may possess the same abilities,albeit it at a slower pace. In these cases, the slower students often respond with "he/she left me in the dust."  This saying applies literally to the athlete capable of such performance. Even those who may be faster as to sprinting are still more apt to be hit with more force than the outlier that is D. Robinson and Barry Sanders due to their inability to process thought with  and appropriate body reaction simultaneously. 

Those who are better equipped to immediately map out their route by heightened process of the brain and body are naturally going to take the route that provides fewer obstacles. The fewer the obstacles, the fewer the hits, the fewer the chances for injury....................... 

PhillipFulmersPants

September 15th, 2010 at 12:08 PM ^

have carried a load over a season. In addition to Couch, Tommy Frazier, Turner Gill, Scott Frost all at NU. Jamelle Holieway at OU back in their wishbone days.  Darian Hagan at CU. Navy's QBs have done it for years. Air Force used to run a wishbone attack with smallish guys who took a lot of hits. The story will go away once the number Denard's carries come down, which they undoubtedly will.

Wolfman

September 15th, 2010 at 12:55 PM ^

One of my favorite UM qbs of all time, Dennis Franklin took a hit on his wrist in the final game of '73 that was the "supposed" reason we didn't go to the RB. In spite of that, he compiled the best winning % of any of Bo's qbs. He qbed  for three years and if we would have gone to the RB that year, it would have been the only game he missed. Nonetheless, he played 33 games and his record was 30-2-1 and he was 5 pts away from winning all 33. Ricky Leach was in the same mold and so too was Steve Smith whom followed.  

In fact, Jimmy H. who was a very good runner, but also led us in our conversion toward more of a passing team was the first to go down that I can recall during the Bo years. He was also the first since Moorehead and Slade that sat in the pocket for actual drop back passes on more than a routine basis. 

When you consider we ran a purely option attack for ten years prior to that - one qb running it 4 years straight - and to have only  one season changed dramatically by a qb injury, that should disprove almost any worry. All were of the same body types as Denard  I believe Jimmy H. was a bit taller but all possessed the same body types and athletic attributes. And as stated above, the type of qb  he was also caused a change in offensive philopsophy.  

However, even more compelling imo is Barry Sanders who had telephone poles for legs and was shorter and stouter than DR. Their body types were a little different, but their running styles were almost exactly alike, meaning they had the quick twitch muscles coupled with the ability to see and react immediately as to the course on the field which leads most readily to maximum minimization of being hit by a defender. Even on the tackles they absorb, the hit is less forceful because their brain has sent the same message due to the fact they both possess the extremely rare ability to  visualize and synthesize almost immediately the path of least resistance. In their cases, they could take it a step further and actually complete that path.  In breaking it down to its simplest form, it's not through any fear of contact - these types are always destined to be hurt it seems - it's that their natural, automatic running styles almost negates a chance for a straight -on, full impact collision. 

We all know Barry went nine years with nothing much more than an occasional thigh bruise slowing him down, but never causing him to miss a game. It is for the reasons mentioned above, and in fact, Denard's superior speed makes it even less likely for him than it did Barry to absorb the major punishment one normally associates with running backs. 

befuggled

September 15th, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^

Slightly before my time, but I thought he had a separated shoulder.

Barry Sanders did miss about half a dozen games in '93 or '94. I don't remember why. He did have almost 200 yards in his first game back (playoff game against Green Bay in which Erik Kramer threw a long pick six when the Lions were in position to win).

jmblue

September 15th, 2010 at 3:53 PM ^

I think Barry tore his MCL  That was about the only serious injury he suffered in his career.  I don't really think we should compare QBs to RBs, though.  RBs take more punishment.  Not only are they expected to throw their bodies around more, but they also have to pass protect, and that's where a lot of them get hurt.

los barcos

September 15th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^



dr. sat also had a quip on twitter the other day... i dont feel like looking it up but someone asked him what are the odds that denard makes it through the season and he responded to the extent of "about the same as any other running back"

which is true; people get hurt, others never get hurt, it seems to be a fluke one way or the other. i know this though - for all the hooplah about spread qbs and denard will be hurt blah blah blah, our qb didnt miss half the notre dame game with a concussion.

steelymax

September 15th, 2010 at 12:25 PM ^

The Denard backlash is inevitable, but it's also because anything positive about Michigan is going to be attacked and mitigated.

Every success this program has will have a "yeah, but..." reaction from the MSM.

"Michigan has a record breaking quarterback. Yeah, but... he won't last the season."

Other things you may eventually hear:

"Michigan made a bowl this season. Yeah, but... it wasn't the Rose Bowl."

"Michigan won a national championship. Yeah, but... they won't win it again next year."

Get used to it.

NomadicBlue

September 15th, 2010 at 12:46 PM ^

You are suppose to distract them first with a metaphor (most OSU fans will think it is a simile) and then sneak around them for the physical ass-jamming.  Their brains may still be working on the metaphor, so they may not even notice the posterior occurrence. Don't forget a glove!

BornInAA

September 15th, 2010 at 12:30 PM ^

of straws by Michigan opponents and haters.

Every QB at every level touches the ball every snap and runs some distance with it every snap.

A roll out, a drop back to pass, sneaks - whatever.

I think pocket passers are MORE likely to get hurt than scramblers / option QBs.

See: the movie "The Blind Side".

Ask 6' 2" 232lb Matt Stafford or 6' 4" 225lb Tom Brady if their size and pro-style game has helped them avoid injury. 

Blue Blue Blue

September 15th, 2010 at 12:32 PM ^

and holding the ball, taking hits to set up pitches.

Rick Leach was not as big, nor as OMG built as Denard, and he started as a triple option QB for four years.....taking more big hits in one season than Denard will take in his career.

Denard will start sliding and getting out of bounds more as time goes on, so he should be significantly less likely to get hurt than your average workhorse running back.

TheOracle6

September 15th, 2010 at 4:39 PM ^

Denard will last because he's made of dilithium.  Also Denard is so fast and agile that he is very difficult to get a good angle on, which limits any big hits he may take.  A stationary QB is much more likely to suffer an injury.