Discussion of Offensive Schemes

Submitted by Wmonette on

I thought that, for a slight conversational change-up, it might be nice to momentarily stop lusting after the Harbaugh and discuss football as a sport. In particular, offense, since that was the big issue this year.

 

I will preface this by saying that I don't think Michigan should hire or not hire a coach based on that coaches play style. All good coaches can adjust to what they find on a roster; this time, my hope is that we are hiring someone who can do just that.

 

With that said, I wanted to look at a few offenses that have always intrigued me and why. I also wanted to open this up to other MgoReaders and posters, since as a whole, I think we are all pretty interested in football at a schematic level. 

 

Popular offenses now:

 

Pro-Style: This offense is generally mischaracterized as being "under-center" or "I-form" MANBALL. What a Pro-Style offense really is, as many successful NFL teams and College squads have shown, is any football scheme designed to be complex in its blocking and route running. Generally speaking, Pro-Style passing routes use a "Levels" concept, which forces defenders to commit to one particular level, those being shallow, middle and deep on every play. The advantages of this, is that it allows superior, NFL level talent to work. The downside, is that it forces a Quarterback to make complicated, multi-dimensional reads (both sides of the field, and depth) in less than three seconds, while also maintaining route timing (in regards to outs, slants, ins and curls).

 

Air-Raid: Air-Raid offenses are a form of the spread obviously, but when people say "spread" they usually think only of the Rich Rodriguez style read-option spread. Air-Raid then, for the purposes of my post, is the offense that is run by Mike Leach at Texas Tech and now at Washington State. This offense relies on the same match-up advantages seen in all spreads, with the goal being to put players with talent in space against sometimes superior talent in space, and see who wins in a one on one. However, the Air-Raid's major component is an option based system of route trees, which take years to actually ingrain in players, since the Quarterback and Receiver need to know which option the other will take in an instant. The beauty of the Air-Raid, from a coaching standpoint, is that it nullifies talent deficiencies, particularly at the Quartback position, by keeping all of the routes in a given pattern to relatively short patterns and giving "space" to throw to instead of relying on timing. Basically, receivers are taught to "find grass" and sit there against zone, or Mesh together against man, forcing defenders to essentially pick themselves out of the play, leaving to open grass for the QB to throw to.

 

Read-Option: This is an offense that most of us who have lived through the late 2000's remember well. When it works, it is perfect, (see OSU) when it does not, it looks bad (see us vs OSU in 2008-2010). The whole principal of the offense is to present the threat of a running quarterback, which evens the match-up numbers. Basically, in ANY other offense, the defense only has to worry about 10 men on a running play, since the QB serves only to hand the ball off. The read-option forces the numbers to at-least be even, since the QB himself is a legitimate running threat. Where the idea works to its ideal, is when the back-side defender is left unblocked and presented with a split second choice: take the RB and allow the QB to break contain (which usually results in a HUGE play when you have someone like Braxton Miller or Denard Robinson at QB) or you take the QB, which allows a back to break off the run inside--which, if everyone is blocked, should theoretically always allow the RB to get to the second level of the defense. 

These are all "sexy" offenses. Others that aren't:

Flexbone/Wing-T: This offense, to me, is very cool. That might because I don't know that much about it; it might also be because watching Georgia Tech and Navy run it to perfection is beautiful. It literally neutralizes superior talent at the DLine positions, because it relies on schematic cut-blocking, the idea being that they can't penetrate your OLine or disrupt a play if they are on their backs. It then forces receivers to block, as the play could come to their side of the field depending on a pitch or dive. If any one else knows anything about this offense, please post, I love watching it.

My whole point with this, besides generating some non-CC football talk (since I love football but am stressing out massively during this search) and see what people think. I personally don't care what a coach runs, as long as it works. If Harbaugh wants to come in and run a Wing-T or an Air-Raid or whatever, I will let him. If Dan Mullen wants to come here and install his spread, I will want him to. 

I just want to win. Period. 

flashOverride

December 8th, 2014 at 9:08 AM ^

I don't care what a coach runs, so long as it's within the boundaries of the skill sets of Michigan's current personnel. This program blew it up and started over twice in a three-year span. I have no wish to see it go to three times in seven years. I want a coach whose system fits the team as it stands right now, who can make a few adaptations as needed. If anyone who isn't Harbaugh goes trying to install something completely new, we'll be here again in three years. I love the read option, but the ship has sailed on this program's opportunity with that*.

*At least in terms of making it the base of the offense. Individual read option plays can, of course, be worked into other offenses here and there

The_Mad Hatter

December 8th, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^

A coach that is capable of running multiple offensive schemes would also be nice.  Why not mix it up a bit instead of running the same thing week after week?

I'm partial to manball, but totally cool with adding other elements, or even completely switching to something else if the players are capable of doing that.  Keep the opposing teams guessing as to what we're going to run next.

We just went through two one trick ponies in the last 7 years.  Let's not do that again.

 

victors2000

December 8th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^

An offensive scheme that keeps the defense guessing, that lines up in several formations yet runs the same plays from these formations; the result is it keeps the defense on their heels. In a word, VARIETY. I saw the NIU Bowling Green game and Coach Carey runs an offense there that I thought was great. Pro-set, Pistol, Shotgun, the offense looked different but for the most part the team kept to a moderate amount of plays. Based on this foundation the offense would look for mismatches and attack them while looking different all the time. When a defense doesn't have the right answers it tends to make any offense look like a world beater but NIU looked fantastic against BGSU and I wouldn't mind seeing that kind of philosophy here at Michigan.

Yeoman

December 8th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^

...because one of the main criticisms of Borges--the most trenchant one in my opinion--was that he wouldn't commit to anything and kept trotting out new and ever more ingenious schemes that weren't followed up on. "We're going to be multiple." Remember the dreaded Fritz Crisler Single Wing Diamond of Doom?

Successful college programs don't run Air Raid one week and pro-style the next. They learn to run the stuff they run.

turd ferguson

December 8th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

I agree.  A little schematic diversity is okay, but it should come after the offense gets the basics of a single system down - and definitely not in the first couple of seasons with a new coach.  The last thing we need is a coach/OC who brings a schedule like this into his 2015 spring practices with the offense:

Week 1: Air Raid
Week 2: Read-Option
Week 3: Wishbone
Week 4: Pro-Style
Week 5: Pistol
Week 6: Wildcat

The really good offenses today are the ones that do the thing they do incredibly well.  I'm a little agnostic about which offense to run, since I think that how well someone runs his offense (and gets the right personnel for it) generally makes a bigger difference than which offense he runs.

ijohnb

December 8th, 2014 at 10:11 AM ^

was in a trick box of sorts.  He needed to win now(now fergodsakes) and install something with more of "permanent" feel.  He was asked to put in place a formula with a shortage of personel to do it, but also to abandon that formula in order to win individual games.  Borges never declared "POWER!!"  Hoke did (And Brandon also to a certain degree).  Borges was working with spare parts for the most part.  He was trying to build the CO-2 filter from Apollo 13.  At times it worked in spectacular fashion but it predictably faltered against the elite defenses.

Put another way, I don't think Borges was ever really the problem but somebody had to go in order to buy some time.  That is why I think Hoke was so visibly upset about Borges' dismissal.  The bus was running over somebody before the 2014 season began and Borges was the obvious target.

(This is not an all out defense of Borges but I think we can fairly say at this point that Borges was not the primary failure in Hoke's tenure)  

victors2000

December 8th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^

Borges was told what they wanted to see and he attempted to execute the vision. We'll probably never know how hamstrung Al was but that surely aided in the offensive woes the team had during his time here. There was/is an alternate future that Al would probably have been wildly successful had the "vision" been a little more maleable.

In reply to by ijohnb

Yeoman

December 8th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^

I'm not sure why people think this was Hoke's call. Hoke and Borges had already been together for two years before they came to Michigan and their offense wasn't predicated on a power running game.

For that matter, the offense here wasn't really predicated on a power running game. They ran more than they had at SDSU (where they had better personnel for a run game FWIW) but the supposed all-out commitment to the style was more talk than substance, an attempt to recapture the Michigan brand of yesteryear.

Marketing. Branding. Who do you think was the initial impetus for that?

victors2000

December 8th, 2014 at 11:09 AM ^

but obviously something wasn't right. Execution was off, the line couldn't block; Did he use too many plays? One thing we all should remember about his playbooks was the number of plays in it. One of the biggest reason he isn't here anymore is plays were called that used the players strengths; Devin was never going to be a good drop back passer and they should have run more plays to minimize his downfield passing weakness. We could go on an on about this topic; Al got more of the blame than he should have but there was a lot of blame to go around.

victors2000

December 8th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^

he would have been Michigan's version of Vince Young; with the offense he was quarterbacking he struggled to improve. Instead of developing players Brandon and Hoke were bent on developing the Michigan brand. The more I think about it the more I realize just how damaging Brandon and Hoke were for the team. Also, the more my head hurts.

tolmichfan

December 8th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

I think it was more Brandon then hoke. I don't know what you do but if you got hired by someone and they were gonna pay you a million dollars to go dig a ditch, I'm going to go dig a ditch. Hoke's offenses have been different each place he coached. Brandon gave the mandate to restore Michigan to power. The one area I will fault Hoke is that he didn't tell Brandon to stay the hell out of his football program. I'm glad Brandon's gone for sure, I hope Hackett or whoever the next AD will hire a good coach and let them do their job instead of meddling in affairs he isn't trained to do. This last season DG was never going to be Vince Young, his broken foot and sprained ankle wernt going to allow that. Plus that Texas team had about three times the talent gardner ever had to work with.

ijohnb

December 8th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^

problem with Gardner this year was that of all things that were thrown at Gardner, the "pro-style" as set forth above was the thing he was least able to do.  I never thought that this season would turn out as bad as it did, but I have to admit I saw precursers of doom beginning in about the second quarter of the ND game.  I think Garnder could have survived and even prospered this year in any thing from read option to air raid, it just so happenned that he was almost constitutionally incapable of consistently playing well in the kind of offense Nuss tried to play.  His effectiveness almost immediately returned when he became more dual threat late in the season.

bamf16

December 8th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

Borges had too many different blocking schemes sprinkled throughout his plays.  These are college kids with limited time to learn this stuff compared to the full time NFL job, plus a 4-5 year window to learn where many are only expected to contribute for 2, maybe 3, again, as opposed to the NFL where you're the guy sometimes for 7-10 years.  And even in the NFL, they don't consistently mix things up with pros the way Borges did with college kids, many of them in their first years playing.

 

I agree with the guys citing what NIU does, running the same play from multiple formations.  The blocking schemes for those plays are pretty consistent.  You don't have guys running man, inside zone, outside zone, iso, etc.  

 

I think a lot of us are talking about the same thing when we use some of the different terminology.  I like calling it "identity."  We are a ____ team.  When I coached High School ball, we were an inside zone blocking team except for our short yardage and goaline packages.  My 5 linemen and I were on the same page with our blocking schemes, regardless of what the defense threw at us.  I love the scene in "Remember the Titans" where Herman Boone talks about his 8 plays being like novocaine; give it time, always works.  We also ran the same plays from different formations, but the linemen always knew the blocking schemes and we as coaches could help them adjust to whatever the defense was doing and help them with our playcalling.  Those guys could zone block in their sleep because we drilled it into them.

 

With Borges, no identity, no consistency, too many variables.

tolmichfan

December 8th, 2014 at 7:33 PM ^

How many different pass blocking schemes are there, slide right, slide left, cut, no slide just straight up for a pocket. When I played in highschool we used two schemes, straight up no slide and cut block. I always figured out o lines have been bad at pass pro because youth, bad communication from the center, and some guys just were not good.

Space Coyote

December 8th, 2014 at 8:14 PM ^

If we aren't talking roll outs, sprint outs, and PA, there are three: Man (nominally BOB), Zone (Slide), and Combo.

But then you have combinations of 5, 6, 7, 8, up to 9 man protection schemes based on formations. You have various adjustments based on offensive alignment and defensive alignment. While it isn't typically a call, you tend to react differently to different QB drops (3 to 5 to 7 step drops).

At maximum, Borges could employ up to 10 drop back pass protections (between 5-7 man protection schemes from 21 personnel). In 2013 he probably called half that. For reference, that's pretty much the same as OSU had under Tressel, so not out of the ordinary for a nominal team (the issue for Borges game with a team that was so young).

Spread teams will typically have a little fewer because they tend to have at most 7 potential blockers. So they don't need a scheme where the RB goes into a route and the FB and TE stays in and then another where the FB goes out and the RB and TE stay in, etc. It's essentially accounting for one fewer player.

tolmichfan

December 8th, 2014 at 8:52 PM ^

That's pretty much what I figured, and to be honest shouldn't be hard for college coaches to coach. My issue with last years oline was mainly due to the center position. When Miller got benched it created 2 holes in the oline. Yea Glasgow could physically play center but was probably worse at the "calls". Miller just wasn't physically ready to play as a RS sophomore but probably knew the calls. This probably contributed to Kallis's mental struggles.

ikestoys

December 8th, 2014 at 9:51 AM ^

This sounds good at the surface, but the problem is that it's very difficult to do one scheme well, and nearly impossible to do two. Furthermore, a proper scheme has contingencies for adjustments and is capable of keeping a defense off balance.

tolmichfan

December 8th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^

( me saying this to just be a complete Ahole, sorry In advance) but isn't what you want what Borges was trying to do and we ran him out of town? ( now back to the question at hand) I think Pinkles offense would fit our personnel. Morris is kind of similar to Chase Danials, above average arm and just enough mobility to not be henne/Navarre. As our more talented receivers are now getting older I think we will be able to put more of them on the field at once. Freddie and Norfleet running underneath, darbogh as a possession type receiver, and moe ways and Harris being able to handle the deep routes, sounds kind of dangerous to me. Plus we have some bruising running backs and an oline that is finally good.

Wmonette

December 8th, 2014 at 9:12 AM ^

Advocating for one over the other, honestly. 

 

I don't think a ship has ever "sailed" when you are talking about a team that has been around for 135 years and will be around even longer. But when I look at what Urban Meyer has done at OSU, I think to myself, "Why was it so easy for him to that when we couldn't?"

 

I think outside of QB and OLine, you don't have to get wildly variant talent to run a spread-offense. I think what Meyer has done, is go more "Power" with the spread versus "Speed." Picture this, for a second, Shane Morris in the backfield, running pistol veers with D. Green. Now, what happens then is that Morris is moderately mobile, and is a threat to run--or he pulls the ball down and fires to a bubble screen to stretch the defense. 

 

A good coach can install aspects of his system and still play to the talents that are on the team. I am not saying Mullen is my second choice, but I think he would essentially run a pass-happy spread using possession and dives while he builds a network of his ownly recruits. You would have a lot of 8 win years, maybe better, until all his pieces were in place. He wouldn't WHOLESALE install his spread for about five or six years; he would however introduce parts of it, since as a scheme, it is really, really good. 

 

 

flashOverride

December 8th, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^

Oh, I wasn't implying you were advocating one or another. I just used the RR spread as my example. I don't want to move toward anything that involves a retool of the O-line, because we just wrapped up a trip through hell with that.

Woodson2

December 8th, 2014 at 10:24 AM ^

It was a much different situation than the team Rodriguez inherited. If Meyer had Sheridan and Threet and those running backs and recievers it wouldn't have been a fast turnaround either. Talent is a critical factor. The good thing for the new coach at Michigan is that he actually has some pieces to work with on both sides of the ball.

Cromulent

December 8th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^

The Flexbone's direct ancestors are the Wishbone & Run-N-Shoot. Flex the Wishbone's RB's out to the slot and make a small adjustment to the FB depth and you have the Flexbone.

And when it was first run back at Hawaii ~25 years ago the playcalling was vary much a mix of Wishbone vs Shoot. By '94 it had really become the run dominant animal you see now. Though you'll still see some Shoot in the passing game.

BlueinLansing

December 8th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^

from watching college football for 35+ years is offenses come and go,  run and gun, option, spread etc.

What stays is basic principles like blocking and tackling, executing passing routes etc.

 

A good offense is one that uses basic fundamentals and takes the best elements of all of those "fad" offenses and combines them into a functioning offense that keeps defenses guessing and utilizes a teams individual talents.

People will call Alabama a "pro-set" offense, and thats basically true, but they run an awful lot of plays and routes that would be considered "spread".  They take the best of what works and integrate it into their basic sets.  Those kinds of offenses have always been successful long term.

 

The spread offense is easily the most difficult to stop thats come along in the last 30 years.  Run and gun had its day but defenses figured out how to limit its success, but these spread concepts have defensive coaches befuddled and its here to stay for sure.  Until the next thing.

 

 

As an aside, what makes the modern spread so difficult is having to account for the QB as a runner and its really interesting to see old plays from the 30's, 40's and 50's that have what today would be called spread elements.  It just shows what a wonderful evolving thing college football has been in all of its history.

Sauce Castillo

December 8th, 2014 at 9:15 AM ^

There are certain schemes/coaches who know how to exploit a defense and making it noticeable to even the most novice viewer.  I think Oregon’s scheme, Gus Malzahn, Urban, Art Brlies, they all exploit the defense and you can notice this just by watching on TV and not being a coach.  Ironically those are all read option or air raid type schemes, that’s just the way college football has evolved.  I’m not opposed to manball and if there was a guy who does it best it’s probably Harbaugh, that’s why getting him is so critical.  I just think in those other offenses I mentioned previously it’s easier to plug and play guys or win with lesser talent.

MI Expat NY

December 8th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ^

The big difference is that in play-action from under center, the QB generally isn't a running threat.  So to get the numeric advantage required to open the passing game your running game has to be so proficient that it is capable of being succesful against a numeric disadvantage (generally 7 defenders against 6 blockers) which causes defenses to add an extra defender to up the numerical disadvantage.  

With read-option and what have you, the QB as a running threat negates the defensive numerical advantage.  7 in the box (or 6 without a TE), end up going against 5 linemen, a TE/FB, a RB and a QB.  The RB or QB who doesn't have the ball ends up taking away one defender, meaning a defender has to make a play while being blocked to stop the run.  Hard to do.  Defenses end up having to bring an extra guy into the box just to get a defender free.  Thus, play-action tends to be more effective from the spread-option (see Denard's insane passing numbers as a sophomore).

That's not to say that the read-option is always better.  But I do think, in today's college football, if your QB isn't a running threat you bettter be damn good at something else.  A run of the mill college QB who can't run puts your team at a huge disadvantage unless you're absolutely great at running the football from the classic under center look. 

Space Coyote

December 8th, 2014 at 10:29 AM ^

Gun obviously gives a bit higher of a QB run threat, which either leads to a certain numbers advantage (even with a QB that isn't a great run threat). But gun also tends to force the offense to mitigate some of the run threat variety due to the RB alignment, and doesn't provide as clear of a mesh point of angle for the RB to get downhill has hard or fast (this is why QBs tend to extend mesh point in an effort to hold the defense a little more or you see the RBs align extra deep or wide or what have you).

Pistol is a bit of a mix, where you have some of the variety of the under center, and can attack with a lot of the schemes from the same look like under center, but the timing is sometimes a bit awkward, and it's still difficult for the RB to receive the handoff at speed (so you have to tend to do somethings with his footwork to slow him down a little). But it still provides a bit of a QB run threat (though not as much as under center).

Under center hits down hill a bit faster because the QB can reach the point he needs to reach for essentially any run scheme (besides read option or other QB threatening runs besides the boot or standard under center option plays). The mesh is cleaner, the RB is more confident in receiving the handoff and viewing the defense.

In theory, under center forces the defense to make harder, faster decisions because the run threat attacks harder and faster downhill. The shotgun causes more indecision because the defense is left unsure of what is happening (similar to flexbone or such, though that attacks in both ways with the dive play, etc).

In general, I think in today's game, I'd prefer an offense that can do any of them on a consistent basis. Obviously you need gun and to a lesser extent under center, but I think there are certain advantages to being comfortable under center that it is worth practicing it more than say, Arizona, OSU, or Oregon does.

MI Expat NY

December 8th, 2014 at 10:57 AM ^

I agree that it's nice to be able to sprinkle in under-center.  At the very least it changes the looks for the defense.  I also think it can be successful as a base offense (Wisconsin, for instance).  My point is more that if your offense doesn't have a QB capable of being a running threat, you have to be really good at something else to keep up offensively in today's college football.  Points per game are up to about 29 per team from about 23 in the 90's.  Offense is just better now and I think it's largely on the running QB.  If you're going to be an alternate model, you better be damn good at it.  

Space Coyote

December 8th, 2014 at 11:13 AM ^

Though in the 90s, the running QB was certainly not uncommon, it was just in different offenses (FWIW, I prefer a mobile QB to at least some degree, though I think you can alter offense based on how much of a run threat he is, the added dimension I think is enough to go that route, especially in the college game).

I think there are several reasons for it: wider variety in offenses; more focus on explosive plays rather than ball controll (this leads potentially to explosive plays both ways); faster tempo; rules changes to favor the offense; better FG kickers (fewer teams coming up empty); simply more emphasis on offense (fans prefer offense over defense in most instances).

Space Coyote

December 8th, 2014 at 11:29 AM ^

Though my involvment with the CM that just flew was only minor (it's not my main project, I only support the CM aspect of Orion). I was down there for the launch (among other things) though, which was cool (and lots of long hours).

Among several other things, that's one of the reasons I'm not posting much any more though.

tolmichfan

December 8th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^

Well congrats on a successful mission. That launch had to be amazing to see live. I lived in Orlando for a short time and one of my regrets was never going to see the shuttle launch, I had one opportunity to see it when I was down there, but I was poor, working for Disney, and didn't have a car so makeing it out to the coast was difficult.

Chipper1221

December 8th, 2014 at 9:17 AM ^

A good coach would be able to adjust to his players.

 

If Mullen were to come here with his spread schemes he would need to adjust that untill or unless he has a QB that can run the way Dak does. He can still use spread concepts but eliminate the QB running portion.

 

I personally like the spread more, get more DBs on the feild and run from the spread. If the defense wants to keep linebackers on the field then you create mismatches with a LB lined up on a WR. 

CLord

December 8th, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^

If you watch the Ohio State TD run against us on 4th and 1 last week, that summarized all I needed to see about offensive scheme.  Ohio State used deception, by motioning someone in the backfield right, thus causing the entire Michigan linebacking and safety crew to shift that way.  Then Barrett handed it off to the RB going left, and he went untouched.

That play summarized what Ohio State does that clueless Hoke and Nuss never did, which was to force the defense to bite on one option, and then making them pay with the other.  Simple football.  We had that under RR, but his smurf patrol approach has a ceiling.  See Oregon game, Mississippi State game when with us, etc., etc.  I think Ohio State's bigger, bruising option approach is ideal for the college game, unless you can consistently recruit 5 stars like FSU and Alabama, in which case perhaps raw athleticism and unique gifts like those possessed by guys like Jameis Winston can allow you to excel with other schemes.

Ohio blasted a good Wisconsin team with 4 new starting linemen and a 3rd string starting QB.  What does that tell you about the power of a scheme where you can just replace parts and get the same incredible results?  Yet on these boards how many times was our mediocrity excused due to youth/inexperience?  Michigan's offensive failures were not about execution whatsoever.  They were 100% horrible, easily defensible schemes, not to mention going "pro style" with the #1 spread QB recruit in Gardner.

Glad the stink of this season is quickly behind us.

Space Coyote

December 8th, 2014 at 10:17 AM ^

Both LBs read the play correctly. Ryan missed the tackle, and Bolden got picked off by Hill who was crossing with the TE on the split zone seal block on the outside. Only the DBs (Clark and Countess) followed to account for the option (Hill followed the H-back's flow in case he leaked). OSU called a nice play, and Michigan didn't execute their defense well enough. If Hill stays out front of the TE or alters his depth, then Bolden steps right into the hole the RB is hitting.

I dunno, I have a lot of issues with some of the things you said that I don't want to get into because it'll start a big beef and I don't have time for that. But you bring up "Only teams like Alabama and FSU can run because they have 5-star talent" but dismiss the fact that both of those teams are essentially as young as OSU and that OSU recruits as well as any team in the nation. UCLA is extremely young, they run a multiple offense. 

Your comment that Michigan's struggles were not about execution whatsoever may be one of the most clueless things I've read. You can put the blame on scheme if you want, but it's still about executing, which Michigan did not do. The fact that people made the same criticisms of Borges and then the same of Nuss kind of helps support that arguement. Different schemes, different philosophies on how to approach offense. The fact that Michigan struggled to execute their base stuff lead to the overall scheme being more limited (and DG being hurt didn't help Nuss).

I dunno, I don't feel like rehashing this for coaches that aren't here anymore, but I disagree with your post in many ways and I think because the offense wasn't good you're throwing shit and it sticks because "Look! The offense wasn't good!"

I don't know how you can say with a straight face the OC responsible for the #9 FEI offense last year dropped to #82 this year and the problem wasn't execution at all and was completely scheme, when the scheme was very similar. "Oh, but 5-stars! Alabama!" Michigan hasn't recruited shmucks exactly either.

CLord

December 8th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^

I didn't phrase it well.  My point was the #1 problem (not the only problem, but the biggest problem) was scheme, not execution.  This was mainly due to the fact that the scheme inhibited execution.  The scheme we used required NFL level execution especially at the QB level in large part because there is almost no deception/option, thus making it more complex.  Not to mention they didn't leverage our assets (a mobile QB).

Watch that OSU run again and see the entire defensive secondary and linebackers drift with the motion guy, allowing a 4th and 1 become an easy, long TD scamper, the likes of which Michigan couldn't pull off all year unless the team was App State.  Yet against our stout run D, OSU, with 4 new linemen and a back up QB, were able to execute it perfectly.  Why?  Because OSU sprinkles magical execution dust on their first year starters?  No, because the scheme was simple, employed read options and deception, and was obviously (see 59-0 vs #4 Wisconsin D) more effective than the garbage we schemed.

westwardwolverine

December 8th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^

"We had that under RR, but his smurf patrol approach has a ceiling.  See Oregon game, Mississippi State game when with us, etc., etc."

Actually I think the ceiling revolves more around Oregon recruiting as the 3rd best team in the PAC-12 and Arizona recruiting as closer to 9th. 

XM - Mt 1822

December 8th, 2014 at 9:19 AM ^

can run and adapt to most any system with two provisos:  first, they do have to be familiar with some of the more unique offenses such as option and wishbone type set ups. knowing the intricacies helps tremendously with improvising blocking schemes on the OL.  

second, of course at some point you have to play with the cards you are dealt and that means some personnel just won't be well adapted to some of the specific offenses.

i played using a very sophisticated pro-style offense, some might characterize it as a 'west coast' offense.   i think that offense is more of how you set your chess pieces, primarily using an I-formation and of course precluding things like option/veer and the air-raid type of offense. it is nevertheless very flexible in what you can run depending on down, distance and personnel.