The difference between Carr and Hoke

38 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post
September 11th, 2011 at 1:46 AM
#1
jfox
jfox's picture
Joined: 04/01/2009
MGoPoints: 118
The difference between Carr and Hoke

Do you remember the waning seconds of the Orange bowl win against Alabama? Tom Brady threw a pass down in to Alabama territory with :30 or so in the 4th quarter with the game tied. Lloyd's call was to run the ball between the hash marks call a timeout and go for the win. The win came in overtime because of a botched pat. I was so frustrated that they wasted so much clock playing it safe.

With 2 time outs I thought Hoke was going to call a run play to get the ball to the middle of the field or the right hash and call timeout giving Gibbons a chance at the tying field goal. Hoke had them take a shot at the endzone when a fg would have tied it. I understand that Gibbons has not been good and that probably weighed heavily into the "bold" decision. I really appreciate the guts to go for it. Very reminiscent of a bold 4th & 1 decision 20 years ago by coach Moeller.

In the press conference Hoke said "You play to win."

I like it!

Go Blue!

Top
Tags:

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
September 11th, 2011 at 1:51 AM | My dad brought up the (Score:3 Normal)
WolverineHistorian
WolverineHistorian's picture
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 5126

My dad brought up the comparison between Lloyd and Brady. 

Lloyd would have called for a running play tonight up the middle to make for a better angle on a field goal.  He never would have tried for a shot in the end zone. 

Go Blue!  Always!

http://www.youtube.com/user/WolverineHistorian

September 11th, 2011 at 3:14 AM | There can be no comparison between "Lloyd and Brady." (Score:5 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14306

Comparing Lloyd and Brady would rip the space/time continuum.

Lloyd Brady was looking good tonight, btw.  Keeping matter and anti-matter safe for all of mankind and the United Federation of Planets.

 

 

September 11th, 2011 at 1:56 AM | We got a nice result but (Score:-1 Overrated)
September 11th, 2011 at 8:28 AM | That's all feel-goody and (Score:-1 Overrated)
September 11th, 2011 at 8:53 AM | You're aware that the game (Score:3 Normal)
Derek
Derek's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2390

You're aware that the game cannot end on a defensive penalty, right?

LSA, Class of 2009

September 11th, 2011 at 8:58 AM | Yes.  You do realize that (Score:-1 Overrated)
September 11th, 2011 at 1:18 PM | I don't understand what (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

I don't understand what you're suggesting.  If ND had tackled our receivers in the endzone, where everyone in the stadium knew the ball was going, there's no way the refs would have let it go.  All the moreso because they'd made pass interference a point of emphasis all game. 

It's a fine call as long as you have faith that your QB can count down the seconds in his head and know when to get rid of it.  ND's own TD right before only took 6 seconds off the clock, and it was a longer throw.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:14 AM | Actually, they probably did (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 38844

It was pass interference on the play. He caught it anyway.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

September 11th, 2011 at 9:10 AM | Uh, if Roundtree hadn't (Score:3 Normal)
mejunglechop
mejunglechop's picture
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 6419

Uh, if Roundtree hadn't caught it the ball would have been placed on the two, almost ensuring a tie, because there was pass interference on the play.

Galileo was also chastised.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:01 AM | In the after-glow of the (Score:5 Normal)
triangle_M
triangle_M's picture
Joined: 03/09/2011
MGoPoints: 1615

In the after-glow of the game, I don't know if I'd make this distinction.  Carr coached the only NC I've been alive for.  He was a winner as well.   I'm not taking anything away from Coach Hoke, I think he is tremendous.  My 10 year old son was tearfully jumping with joy at the end of the game, and hugging everyone in the room.  I told him he has witnessed one of the greatest moments in Michigan football history and I believe that.  I have officially consumed all the Kool-aid I can keep down.   

We had break-downs just about everywhere you can have breakdowns on a football team tonight.  No one quit.  There was no quit in that team.  Kovacs, Denard, BWC, Woolfolk, Roundtree, everyone stepped up, everyone played as a team.  And while I don't think we'll win the NC this year or next year, we are believing again.  

 

 


And when we play as a team, when the old season is over, you and I know it’s going to be Michigan again. Michigan!

 

September 11th, 2011 at 2:26 AM | Amen (Score:1)
R.I.P. Bo
Joined: 03/23/2011
MGoPoints: 49

I believe.

September 11th, 2011 at 3:02 AM | I think RichRod's failures (Score:5 Normal)
FrankMurphy
FrankMurphy's picture
Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 2499

I think RichRod's failures have rehabilitated Carr's image amongst the fan base somewhat. We gave him way too much crap. As the last three years have demonstrated, the program doesn't run itself, and the wrong coach can and will run it into the ground. 

September 11th, 2011 at 11:05 AM | The comparison is correct (Score:2 Normal)
Elmer
Elmer's picture
Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2111

The comparison is correct, Lloyd was more risk averse than Brady.  Doesn't mean Brady is a better coach.  That's still TBD for many years.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:23 AM | I don't know about the rest of it (Score:5 Normal)
Blazefire
Blazefire's picture
Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15742

But Lloyd Carr was signing autographs in the Nissan "Drive for the Heisman" tent across the way from the stadium, and he had a line at least 100 people long. You've gotta be a helluva coach to command that kind of following four years after retirement.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
September 11th, 2011 at 3:11 AM | I love Lloyd (Score:2 Normal)
Steenie
Steenie's picture
Joined: 09/04/2010
MGoPoints: 247

I love Lloyd. I love lamp.

"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback." -The Dude

September 11th, 2011 at 8:27 AM | I don't think it's too much (Score:1)
Lionsfan
Lionsfan's picture
Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 3908

I don't think it's too much about not liking the guy, I think it's more just frustration at his conservative play calling. I doubt the Carr haters have that much ground

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

September 11th, 2011 at 8:56 AM | Exactly (Score:2)
Derek
Derek's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 2390

I loved Lloyd Carr as the representative of our football team. I hated his decisions on coordinators, play-style, and game-management.

LSA, Class of 2009

September 11th, 2011 at 9:16 AM | Carr's play style, game (Score:3 Normal)
Bluemandew
Joined: 11/18/2010
MGoPoints: 961

Carr's play style, game management and coordinators while not always popular did bring home a national championship and five big ten rings. Pretty sure he did that as the coach and representitive of the football team.

Just do it!

September 11th, 2011 at 11:26 AM | To be fair check out the (Score:3 Normal)
AlwaysBlue
Joined: 11/23/2008
MGoPoints: 538

To be fair check out the budget for the coach and staff during the Carr years.  Dollar for dollar we got a hell of a return.  The didn't bitch and they didn't send out their reps to stir up other job offers to get attention and increases.

 

September 11th, 2011 at 2:25 AM | Kicker (Score:2)
jmscher
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1259

Not sure we know yet what Hoke would really do, clearly, he rightly, has zero trust in our kicking game is coaching accordingly.  In the presser he hinted that he might have taken a second shot at the endzone if that pass was incomplete.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM | TBH, I thought that was Sun (Score:1)
triangle_M
triangle_M's picture
Joined: 03/09/2011
MGoPoints: 1615

TBH, I thought that was Sun Tzu kung fu.  If we don't score on that play he kicks the field goal.  HOWEVA, its good to keep the Luke Fickells of the world not knowing what to expect at the end of a close game.

 


And when we play as a team, when the old season is over, you and I know it’s going to be Michigan again. Michigan!

 

September 11th, 2011 at 10:57 AM | Honestly if we had Rivas on (Score:2)
CRex
CRex's picture
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 8737

Honestly if we had Rivas on the roster, who was pretty much automatic inside the 30, I'd be screaming for us to center the ball and kick.  

Given our level of kicking through, risking a shot into the endzone was worth it.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:28 AM | I really thought (Score:2)
Jim Harbaugh Sc...
Jim Harbaugh Scramble's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 435

that the run up the gut was coming.

Glad I was wrong.  Hail Hoke.

http://twitter.com/#!/JHScramble

September 11th, 2011 at 2:33 AM | Who gives a crap what we (Score:5 Normal)
Bando Calrissian
Bando Calrissian's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7919

Who gives a crap what we think Lloyd would have called in that situation?  We went for the win.  And won.  It worked out.  Lloyd isn't the coach anymore.  He won plenty doing things his way, and it looks like Brady Hoke is on his way to doing the same.

And if Denard put up a duck pass that got picked off, or got sacked, or ran out the clock trying to find a receiver, there'd be a gazillion threads right now second guessing it.

It worked, we won, let's just celebrate it.  Albeit without talking, because my voice doesn't work anymore.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:48 AM | this was a celebratory post (Score:2 Normal)
jfox
jfox's picture
Joined: 04/01/2009
MGoPoints: 118

I like coach Carr, he coached a number of great teams and they were so good because of his leadership and I'm thankful for the years he was coach. He did however lack in one area and that was to be aggressive when there was a chance at playing it safe. There was a fear that Hoke would be that same way. I am thoroughly enjoying the guts of the playcall tonight going for it all.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:50 AM | Can you tell with all (Score:5 Normal)
Bando Calrissian
Bando Calrissian's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7919

Can you tell with all certainty what Lloyd would have done there?  Tell me.  Can you?

Lloyd only has a literal handful of Big 10 championship rings, a National Championship ring, and a boatload of coach of the year trophies and other various accolades.

What more do you people want from him?  Another opportunity to chip away at his legacy with a thread like this?

September 11th, 2011 at 2:42 AM | While I do agree that Hoke (Score:2 Normal)
TurdFerguson91
Joined: 09/05/2011
MGoPoints: 15

While I do agree that Hoke made the right call in taking a shot at the endzone in that situation, I can't say that I approve of the Carr bashing going on in this thread.

September 11th, 2011 at 2:56 AM | One of the reasons why Hoke (Score:3 Normal)
FrankMurphy
FrankMurphy's picture
Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 2499

One of the reasons why Hoke defers so heavily to his assistants is because he could afford to hire two of the best coordinators in football. Carr (and Rodriguez, for that matter) did not have the budget to hire top-notch assistants, so they hired coaches who were (essentially) cronies and yes-men. Brandon gave Hoke a generous budget to hire assistants, so he got two coordinators with long, independent track records of success (though Borges followed him from SDSU). 

Having said that, it's definitely apparent from the last playcall that Hoke's crunch time philosophy is fundamentally different from that of Carr. Hoke cut his teeth under Carr and has tremendous respect for him, but the two men seem very different (which, all due respect to Coach Carr, is a good thing).

September 11th, 2011 at 3:03 AM | There is more to the story (Score:1)
jiāyóulán
jiāyóulán's picture
Joined: 11/29/2010
MGoPoints: 105

I liked the call and thought it was a risk worth taking given how dangerous they had been moving the ball (unless you went into OT assuming they would turn it over again)

What was more interesting was in the post game where Hoke seemed mildly suprised that there were 8 seconds left.

And followed that up by saying that even if they had not completed the play he might have gone for the win again with 2 seconds left.

"Welcome to China..."

September 11th, 2011 at 3:23 AM | I think he was just shooting (Score:1)
FrankMurphy
FrankMurphy's picture
Joined: 08/19/2008
MGoPoints: 2499

I think he was just shooting the breeze when he said that. With a 3-point deficit, it's a gutsy but reasonable call to take a shot at the endzone from 15 yards out with 8 seconds left. But no coach in his right mind would have gone for the win with only 2 seconds left, especially at home. 

September 11th, 2011 at 10:40 AM | With our kickers they would (Score:2)
Farnn
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 2346

With our kickers they would have.

September 11th, 2011 at 3:56 AM | This is a poor comparison (Score:1 Normal)
jeffro0542
jeffro0542's picture
Joined: 12/12/2008
MGoPoints: 386

Maybe it was past Hoke's bedtime, and he just wanted to hit the sheets.

"He has an uncanny ability to get kids to believe in him and believe in themselves. He doesn't do it with smooth words. He's not smooth. He does it by being the same genuine person day after day." ~Jason Whitlock on Brady Hoke

September 11th, 2011 at 4:28 AM | Well Lloyd had Griese going (Score:2 Normal)
NoMoPincherBug
NoMoPincherBug's picture
Joined: 04/08/2011
MGoPoints: 1432

Well Lloyd had Griese going deep to Streets to beat WSU and win the NC.... so he went for it when he had too....

that said, I love Hoke and feel that he is a great coach to lead Michigan in this new era... he has that swagger, twinkle in his eye, is always respectful and delegates to his coordinators rather than meddling with them... good coach... once the talent gets back to Michigan levels on Defense... we will be a top 10 program again

September 11th, 2011 at 8:26 AM | It was a ballsy call, but I'm (Score:1)
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 12591

It was a ballsy call, but I'm not going to say it embodieed/defined a coaching style beyond that Al Broges/Hoke thought it was the right call in the situation.  To compare the coaching proclivities of Moeller, Carr, RR, and Hoke doesn't really point to much beyond the reality that coaching is very difficult and sometimes you have to make tough decisions.

September 11th, 2011 at 8:46 AM | posted from iPhone (Score:4 Funny)
Wenham Wolverine
Joined: 08/10/2010
MGoPoints: 1218

I'm sure you said something valid and brilliant, but my eyes were drawn to "Hoke doesn't really point", and those, sir, are words that cannot be used in that order.

September 11th, 2011 at 9:24 AM | Whoa, it had to be the combination of a late night, (Score:1)
LB
LB's picture
Joined: 09/26/2009
MGoPoints: 5073

alcohol, and pure adrenaline-laced  exhuberation. Otherwise, that is just crazy.

May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift

Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.