Did We Just Watch the Turning Point Game of the Hoke Era?

This may turn out to be true.  But our perspective right now should be that Rome was not built in a day.  The return of Michigan to its prominence will not happen by the fan base freaking out during the pains of the building process and the AD firing the coach so as to start all over again.  The reality is that building back from where Hoke started is a five or six year process.  And the youth of the O Line is not an excuse but a reality.  They will get abused by great defenses until we have sufficient maturity and experience on the line.  I don't like it either.  But we have to stick with the building process, knowing that it takes time.

I understand that hyperbole and dramatic statements follow losses on sports boards but why is there always such a lack of perspective? MSU was one of the games many fans thought would be a loss. It was 16-6 going into the third quarter.

Yes, MSU dominated Michigan yesterday, but in a year where many predicted between 8-10 wins, I don't see how yesterday was any indication of wheels falling off or anything like that. There are four more games this year and none of us know exactly how it will play out.

If this team finishes strong, you may look at this as the turning point in the other direction. We don't know, but I really can't see how this loss changes much, other than it being uglier than we may have hoped.

Certainly most of us didn't expect a perfect season with a lot of young players on the squad. But very few of us imagined a season where a Michigan team took the field and looked incompetent in half of its games.

Akron, UConn, PSU and now MSU were simply horrendous showings. I don't mind a competitive-looking loss, that happens. But there is very little excuse for what we are seeing, a Michigan team floundering and embarrassing itself.

However, just as I felt it was not smart planning to fire Rich Rod after only three seasons, unless a proven, elite replacement could be found, I feel the same way in this case. At this level, you don't simply let a coach go and hope that you find someone better. Only an inexperienced, arrogant rookie like Dave Brandon does that; one has to plan carefully. One hopes that Brandon has learned a little since he came on board (though the skywriting and student seating nonsense tends to lead one to the opposite conclusion).

A world-beater will come along, and that's when a move makes sense. Until then, plan on a steady diet of whoop-ass from OSU and other good teams.

Most people on this board were thinking 9-3, 8-4, maybe 10-2 as a small possibility at the beginning of the year.

Now were certainly closer to 9-3 or 8-4 but the sky isn't falling and we're very likely to achieve our realistic expectations.

I'm not sure what games we would have been ok with the team losing if we didn't anticipate losses to better teams...

Go Blue!!!

Lets keep in mind what Hoke did with the last of the class that Carr recruited. RR was the worst hire we could have made and in my opinion and we are still feeling the effects. RR had no idea how to recruit lineman. The o line play was horrible and has been for 2 years now.

Still too early to give up on team or Hoke. Most impartial observers thought this team would go 8-4 with losses to PSU, MSU, NW and OSU, but build for next year in the process. No one saw this o line debacle coming.

Turning point tweaks for Hoke are change out o line coach and running backs coach. As bad as O line has been this year the RB group has been bad since Hart graduated.

But I'd bet this very same team would be undefeated and ranked in the top 5 if Harbaugh was coach. I really struggle with the notion of the problems being on the players.

Even if the win total ends up better this year than last year, it seems clear that this year's schedule is easier than last year's. I can't help but feel like there's a regression going on, and that may have everything to do with who was around personell-wise in '11 vs '12 vs '13, and that some games which were 50/50 went Michigan's way two years ago. However, I think I speak for a lot of people that excuses can be made, perhaps, for the two losses this year, but the Akron and Uconn game, I still cannot understand. Sure, RR lost to Toledo, couldn't win a big ten game to save his job, but he certainly didn't seem to be struggling against vastly inferior opponents in his third year despite having a woeful defense.

Unfortunately, some hires don't work out, like RR, but he at least improved in the win column each year. Even if he was never going to work in Ann Arbor, there's little doubt given his career at WVU that the guy CAN build a program and compete at the highest level. I'll be very interested to see how he does at Arizona. To be fair to Brady, every coach has to start somewhere in the major 5-6 conferences, but it remains to be seen what kind of coach he really is. If things go sour in the long run, I'd hope Brandon or whoever the AD is goes after someone more in RR's mold, in the sense that they have proven success competing against big time schools and that they're innovative on at least one side of the ball. I just hope by that point, should it come to that point at all, that the Michigan coaching job is a job someone would want to take and move forward, and not just be satisfied with the built-in tradition and fan base.

I don't doubt at all the sincerity of Brady and his staff, nor their work ethic. At the same time, the whole "this is Michigan fergodsakes" just seems more and more like all bark and no bite.

Fanbases are fickle, I don't discount myself from that statement, but I still be like damn watching this team.

be beat so dramatically was a kick in the balls. I don't think anyone but a sparty slappy thought this game was going to be as bad as it was and I mean NOBODY even vegas had the line at or around 5. to perspective

M football is certainly not "back." It's hard to assess to what degree the inconsistencies are coaches vs. players issues. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say Michigan's woes are 40% coaching and 60% player related. 

Even with other coaches and philosophies, our team top to bottom just isn't as talented as we had hoped it would be at this point in time. Man-to-man we're a step slow and several muscle-pounds short. Akron and UConn illustrated that quite poignantly. 

This year, we're a middle-of-the-pack B1G team. Let's hope for better years ahead and hope this year's disappointing results won't be too detrimental to recruiting. 

Looking back, it's hard to remember too many times when I didn't look forward to watching the season finale against Ohio. This year is one of them, unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

I agree with the above posters mentioning how soft the team is.  Firing coordinators won't fix this.  It is a reflexion of the head coach.  I like Hoke, but I don't know if he can turn this area around.   Playing physically has nothing to do with scheme or talent, it is a mindset, an attitude.  The best teams in football are the best teams at the line of scrimmage.  All the skill guys in the world cannot make up for poor line play.  

I don't seek BH firing anyone this year, and next year will be a blowup year one way or another.  

 

I'd argue that the turning point game for Rodriguez was not Penn State in 2010 but Illinois in 2009.  That shitshow was the beginning of the end for RichRod, but most of us just didn't realize it at the time.  With that said, I can't envision a scenario in which Brady Hoke stays on as our coach more than another year or two without, at the very least, firing Darrell Funk.  Funk is every bit as bad as Tony Gibson, and at this point, it looks like we are about where we left off in 2010.  We may end up 7-6, or we may end up 8-5, which wouldn't be an improvement over the season that got RichRod fired, since we actually played a really hard schedule that year.  I actually like Hoke in that I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it's close to impossible at this point.  He is a cheerleader who needs good assistants to succeed, and he doesn't have those right now.  He has at least one catastrophically bad one.  He is a really good recruiter, but that just means that he is as good as Ron Zook.  And remember that Zook's recruiting fell apart in about year 4, once players realized that he sucked as a coach.  Barring some major changes, I'll be surprised if our 2015 class is as good as our 2012-2014 groups.  Hoke's time to win big is running out.   

It's fine to note where most thought this team's record would be: 9-3, 8-4 w losses to x,y &z.

It appears the manner in which 2 of the losses have come, notwithstanding how some of the wins have come, is the cause for concern.

I think arguments highlighting youth and great recruiting would have much more force if both losses showed progress. Likewise, the arguments would be stronger if the victories weren't pulled out of UM's collective arse.

If the next number of losses show signs of progress, there will be cautious optimism. If the s***show continues, all the arguments to have patience won't be enough to stem the flow of angst.

I don't know if it is just the nature of internet board posting football fans or something else but we seem so reactionary. This board was full of 9-3 and 8-4 predictions preseason. Concern ranged from o and d line, lack of depth at WR, secondary questions etc. all of which have come to fruition to some degree (some way more than others). Prior to the State game most perdictions were for State because of a superior defense and the teams tendency to turn the ball over. Again we saw that come to fruition yesterday. So I guess I am surprised to see us lose our shit when things don't go our way. I think the problem with this board is it has become way to popular for its own good. Even the guy who sits next to me and smells like he rolled around in monkey feces before each game is a regular contributor to this board (at least that is what he claims). I don't think he honestly knows the difference between a running and passing play. Personally I think we win the next 3 games and Ohio being Ohio who knows...