Did We Just Watch the Turning Point Game of the Hoke Era?
In retrospect turning points are always easy to see. Looking back through history we can clearly mark the 1969 Ohio State game as the turning point in Bo's career and that victory as the marker that the Michigan program was changing for the better under his leadership. But I don't know that too many people back in 1969 could predict just how good things would go over the next 20 years with Bo.
Rich Rod also had a turning point game and the similarities to yesterday's debacle are striking IMO. Year three of his tenure and on October 30th, 2010, Michigan went to Penn State with two weeks to prepare and got beat soundly on national TV. It was the game that virtually everyone points to as "the beginning of the end" of the RR regime as it became painfully obvious that we had a defense incapable of stopping anyone (even a true Freshman QB like Matt McGloin). As everyone remembers, that season sputtered to a 7-6 finish despite our 5-0 start with the wheels coming completely off the wagon at the end.
Brady Hoke, in year three of his tenure, with two weeks to prepare, took his team to East Lansing yesterday and got drilled just like we did in Happy Valley in 2010 - albeit with a different side of the ball falling apart completely. This team also started 5-0 but can anyone look at the remaining schedule and not say that a 7-6 finish this for this team is possible if not probable? And would a steadily declining W-L record over three years be considered acceptable by the fan base or Dave Brandon?
To be clear I am NOT calling for Hoke to be fired here. But I wonder, again with the benefit of hindsight, what would've happened in 2010 if Rich had fired Tony Gibson immediately after the PSU game and told Brandon the next day he needed to get a new Defensive Coordinator in next year? Because that IS what I believe should happen with this year's team - Funk should be let go immediately and Hoke should tell Brandon today to start the search process for a new OC. But because I don't forsee either of those events occurring I wonder if we'll look back at yesterday's game sometime in the future as the "beginning of the end" of the Hoke era.
November 3rd, 2013 at 11:57 AM ^
being demolished by MSU is to be taken lightly? Being embarrased by Akron and UConn and PSU should be taken lightly? Thoughts?
November 3rd, 2013 at 7:17 PM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:47 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:51 AM ^
The 1st year Tressel was the coach at osu, allowing a crappy osu team, that was a double digit underdog to UM, win at the Big House
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:54 AM ^
You have the game right but the year wrong. It was 2001 and I agree with you. But his was a long, slow decline and 2006 marked such an uptick I couldnt really point to one game other than the one you mentioned.
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:55 AM ^
Tressel's first year was 2001. That might have been the turning point in that series but not for Carr as a coach - we went to the Rose Bowl three more times after that.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:01 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:06 AM ^
Tressel's first year at OSU was 2001. That season, a 6-4 Buckeye team beat 8-2 Michigan, 26-20, in The Big House.
EDIT: That's what I get for replying to posts on the app. It's always about 5-6 minutes behind.
November 3rd, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^
The Horror...
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:48 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 12:31 PM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 7:22 PM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:49 AM ^
This board = bipolar
I am done with psycho internet posters. I have more healthy obsessions like distance running, planning for the week, and working on my own educational research.
see yeah
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:52 AM ^
Well bye dot gif
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:52 AM ^
I am curious as to what in my post qualifies for "phsyco internet poster"? And how exactly is asking the question regarding turning points mark me as Bi-Polar?
I generally respect your opinion (although I seldom agree with it) but don't care for the name-calling much.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 AM ^
it is not yours. I am growing tired of the reactionary nature of this blog and, for the most part, obsessed college football fans. You made good points. However, for others to call for Hoke's head just because of a tough season, which most reasonable people predicted, is being reactionary. I usually have a 48 hour to not visit social media and blogs after losses for my own mental health. I violated my own rule.
I am going to just stick to college hockey, which I more knowledgeable. College hockey poster tend to be more reasonable due to its niche sport nature.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:08 AM ^
PLease tell us more about all your high-brow pursuits? Implicitly tell us more about how smart you are. We will all value you much more if you do. And since you are all into armchair psychological profiling, there's nothing narcissitic about your post at all. Nothing.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:42 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:53 AM ^
Don't let the door hit you in the butt.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:22 AM ^
I'm just curious, do those mgopoints represent a figurative GTFO of this mgoblog?
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:39 AM ^
When someone has that many minus points it's because one of the Mods negged him to bolivia, narrowly missing the ban hammer. I think sometimes those points roll off and sometimes they don't.
But yeah in general it means GTFO. Sometimes it means STFU.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:44 AM ^
This board = bipolar
I am done with psycho internet posters.
Sees who the poster is.
Cognitive dissonance is a mofo, man.
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:53 AM ^
this can go on before Hoke is on the hot seat. Michigan has a bevy of four and five star talent and they all look clueless on the field. The O-line can't find their way out of a wet paper bag. What concerns me the most is that this team is soft - there are maybe only one or two players (Ryan) on this team that have any kind of toughness.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:35 AM ^
Michgan has a bevy of 4 and 5 star freshmen and sophmores. That is massively different than having junior and senior classes full of 4-5 star players.
November 3rd, 2013 at 10:00 AM ^
but that also does not excuse them from being outplayed by teams with lesser talent.
November 3rd, 2013 at 10:29 AM ^
Being young is an excuse and a reason. This isn't basketball. You can't take top recruits and throw them in as starters as freshmen or sophmores and expect to win, especially on the o-line.
November 3rd, 2013 at 10:47 AM ^
Teams throw out freshman ande sophomores all the time and have success. Players are coming into college more football ready than ever. Gardner is also a 4-5 star that is an upperclassman that has not developed.
November 3rd, 2013 at 1:37 PM ^
That (Kb)..exactly. Alabama plays freshmen. Alabama plays four running backs in a single game.
November 3rd, 2013 at 11:51 AM ^
People still think like it's the 80-90ies. High school program have college like weight programs. They work out with college coaches and former nfl coaches, the run college offenses in high school. A redshirt freshman won the Heisman last year and another is poised to do it this year. 2 of the top 3 heisman vote getter are Redshirt sophmores and the third is a redshirt freshman. 3 of Ohio's d linemen are true sophmores with Joey Bosa the true freshman getting a lot of playing time. playing poorly for a few games or spoty play for a few games is cool but we're 9-10 weeks into the season.
November 3rd, 2013 at 2:55 PM ^
We're hardly the only team with an abundance of "youth" at a particular spot (interior o-line in our case), but for us it's an excuse? How many of the top 15 teams have a bunch of youth that seem to be excelling despite their age?
November 3rd, 2013 at 7:27 PM ^
November 4th, 2013 at 6:17 PM ^
did you expect massive struggles to Akron, UConn, and Indiana? I'm guessing no.
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:54 AM ^
No need to wait until end of year IMO
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:02 AM ^
And who is going to then coordinate the offense and coach the OL and QB positions for the rest of the year? Grad assistants?
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:13 AM ^
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:36 AM ^
LOL, what coaching are you talking about. I see our oline regressing and our qb is afraid to even throw the ball and he is actually regressed since the beginning of the season.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:46 AM ^
Let Steve Everitt coach the OL. He's already hanging around and couldn't do any worse.
November 4th, 2013 at 4:59 AM ^
No. Jon Gruden duh
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:55 AM ^
I've been watching College Humor shit on youtube. I don't what footbaw game you cats be talking about
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:56 AM ^
I guess Miles may want to jump at a coaching spot here. I think he is getting sick of the high standards he needs to live up to at LSU.
I don't know who else Brandon cold get?
But I'm willing to give Hoke a couple more years. I really think we will see many of the same OL problems next year when we have to replace both tackles. I don't see anything better than a 9-3 record and runner up in the east division next season.
It may all come together for Hoke in '2015 with both MSU and OSU at home. Our OL will have experience. Our defense should be good. If he goes 8-4 this season then it will be time to show Hoke the door!
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:00 AM ^
when you hear fans saying that they have to get teams at home to have any shot at beating them. It doesn't matter where you play a team, you should be competitive if you are better than they are.
November 3rd, 2013 at 9:27 AM ^
8-4 is still better than RR's BEST year. And it would be Hoke's worst year, as compared to RR's worst year of 3-9. And Hoke's projected worst year is with 1 SR, 2 JR, 3 Soph, and 10 Freshman on the Oline. Ouch! (http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/lets-look-michigans-ol-recruiting-09-11-and…). Most of his losses this year are to Oline's that have almost a full year's age advantage on Michigan: an additional year of S&C, an additional year of coaching technique and theory, and extra year of practice. Oh, and UM's defense has a simlar lack of upperclassmen. The team should have reached bottom, experience-wise this year, and should only get better starting next year.
RR was 0-3 against MSU and Ohio State.
Hoke is 1-2 against MSU and currently 1-1 (1-2 assuming 8-4) against Ohio State.
Hoke's team is bowl eligible his 3 years, RR was only bowl eligible once.
Hoke is 1-1 in bowls, RR was 0-1.
Hoke is recruiting much better, and he's recruiting a complete team.
Oh, and for those that think Les Miles is Michigan's savior; be careful what you wish for. He drives LSU fans crazy with his periodic brain farts when it comes to clock management, and there's always one or two big 'what was he thinking' coaching moments during a season. Since the board seems to find this a firable offence in Hoke, I don't know why you'd want to hire another coach who has this same fatal flaw....
November 3rd, 2013 at 10:08 AM ^
I believe he was talking about 2015 when we play MSU and OSU at home. Then the OL and rest of the team will be all Hoke's recruits and if we go 8-4 it will be a major disappointment
November 3rd, 2013 at 10:43 AM ^
It should be an open question whether that's a good thing.
November 3rd, 2013 at 1:09 PM ^
is less than a saint, even by SEC standards. We expect coaches to have high standards for behavior here and Miles probably has some skeletons in his closet we would not want. LSU fans would be glad if we took him off their hands since they feel he has the same issues as we are blaming Hoke for: "with all these great recruits why are we not winning more, especially against Alabama" ( we have a disproportional number of LSU fans where i work and i hear this all the time ).
November 3rd, 2013 at 11:32 PM ^
for the love of God, RR was a complete disaster here. The fact that Hoke may be doing better should be completely irrelevant. The RR era should in no way, shape or form be the bar for this program.
November 3rd, 2013 at 6:04 PM ^
Too soon to overreact by cleaning house, but I sure don't want to hear in 2015 about us struggling because its Shane's first year starting!
November 3rd, 2013 at 8:59 AM ^
I believe yesterday was the turning point. That was a major step backwards for Brady Hoke and Michigan football. Modern college football is full of brilliant offensive and defensive minds, minds that have made teams like Baylor, Boise State, Michigan State, TCU, and Oregon relevant. Our chief rival in Ohio is light years ahead of us schematically on the offensive side of the ball. Our other rival is ligh years ahead of us schematically on the defensive side of the ball. So where does that leave Michigan??? Mediocre on both sides of the ball and not good enough to beat MSU or Ohio.