What gives you confidence that that unit wouldn't continue to be awful under RR/GERG's leadership?
mesmerism! presidential assassinations! circuses on fire!
What gives you confidence that that unit wouldn't continue to be awful under RR/GERG's leadership?
We never recruited the SIZE required for the smash mouth Big Ten. RichRod was wrong to figure speed conquers all.
Why didn't RR recruit big guys like Will Campbell (6-5, 333), Richard Ash (6-3, 320), Taylor Lewan (6-8, 294) Quinton Washington (6-4, 315) or Patrick Omameh (6-4, 299)?
Oh. That's right. He did.
EDIT to note that Romeyjdogg's post below this isn't actually in response to this post. The Board has been misplacing posts recently.
was veteran last year, peroid. Experienced backs, experienced WRs, experienced OL, need I go on? Our "first year quarterback" wasn't the problem. In fact, he was the best player on the team, so mentioning him in your argument totally dilutes it.
Romey you obviously must have forgotten about the inexperienced quarterback turning the ball over at critical moments in the game. That is what first year starting quartbacks normally do. They make mistakes and those mistakes were critical. Robinson will improve his decision making as he enters his second year as starting quarterback.
Also, I wouldn't say we had a veteran offense when most of the players weren't even seniors. There is much room for improvement even on offense although the improvement on the team will be most apparent from the defense. Starting freshmen and sophomores throughout the defense was the biggest problem.
regarding restocking the roster with talented players: if you look at our recruiting the past three years, OSU has handed us our asses, and we have lost many recruiting battles to little bro. We have more 3* players than ever before. So, while he is stocking the roster after the epic amount of attrition during his 3 years (which is a whole separate topic of discussion), he isn't bringing in top talent. We are at a talent deficit compared to OSU and some of our rivals.
The rankings may not be as high as we like, but I think the eventual production of the guys currently on the roster will be just fine. We'll find out in a few years, but I think guys like Denard, Gardner, Roundtree, Odoms, Omameh, Lewan, Roh, Gordon, Avery, Black, and loads of young guys who haven't had a chance to shine just yet are going to be a part of some very successful Michigan teams over the next few years.
Yeah, I actually agree with you on that. I love the guys on this team, and in particular, I think that the ones that you singled out are probably our best "stars." But, I think that just about every team in the country can make the statement that " guys like [insert list of young players that are lower ranked coming out but fans are excited about", and loads of young guys who haven't had a chance to shine just yet are going to be a part of some very successful teams."
My only point is that yes, he got some guys in here, but that the recruiting was not up to the level that it needs to be to compete with OSU. It is like playing a game of school yard basketball - if one team gets the first 4 picks, they are going to have a much better chance of winning, just by having better, bigger, stronger, higher-ceiling players. Not to say that we can't overcome this, but I think that the original statement that RR restocked with talented players may be more positive than reality dictates. Otherwise, I agree with you.
We ended up ranked 21st in the country after losing 2 5* (Dee and Frost) and a couple of 4* in Fisher and Zettel (who I think would have signed if DB hadn't screwed up so badly). Realistically, RR would have had a top 15 class.
Why are we above this again? Why can we not actually sit around and argue it some more. Some people like to have a civil argument every once in awhile. People always feel the need to but into something they don't like and tell them to stop doing it.
No, I think the offense was great, but the defense was never going to improve. Rich Rod would never have gotten any better. The great offense would never overcome the terrible defense. Also if we gave him another year our team height average would drop to 5'8".
Isn't the fact that there's finally a veteran team in 2011 due to Rodriguez? Doesn't it explain why the obviously non-veteran teams of the past few years have stumbled? When people say that a team like OSU doesn't rebuild it reloads, it is because they replace graduating seniors with juniors or RS sophomores, not freshmen.
We would have had a veteran team in 2011 if the coach was Popeye the Sailor. People, you know, get older?
Which begs the question....where the fuck were the juniors and seniors the last couple years after Henne, Hart, and Long graduated?
The fact that we had to wait 4 years (07--->11) to have a somewhat veteran team is a poor reflection of the previous regime. I'll take it one step farther and say that just cause a freshmen or redshirt freshman played last year does not make the same player a veteran this year.
That was more of a joke than anything. I just thought it was funny that he suggested that RR was the reason why we have a bunch of multiple year starters on this year's roster
Start a new topic but Scott has a new job
Good for him.
Yes this has been discussed at length here but I don't see the harm in bringing in a respected outside voice.
Sweet, double post.
RR may have divided the Michigan fan base but he succeeded in uniting the nation.
I've never seen an ESPN poll where every state agreed. First time for everything.
made my day
people who are ignorant about Michigan Football agree that RR had a fair chance. I wonder how many of them read "The Decimated Defense?"
Most Michigan fans don't even understand the challenges that RR faced. How would fans of a terrible sports personality like Colin Cowherd understand? Not like they pay attention to the amount of underclassmen starting on defense. That poll looks about right to me in regards to how clueless most people who could stomach Cowherd probably are.
runs a prevent defense all game for an entire year does not deserve to be back. I'm sorry RR called it a 3-3-5, my bad.
So did Brady Hoke every year he ran it. I'm sorry, he is now our coach, my bad.
The fact that we brought a coach in to run an entirely different scheme and fired him after 3 years is fucked up on a number of levels. I believe with full conviction that whom ever was brought in to coach this team during RR's tenure was destined to struggle. Injuries and transfers didn't help an already talent deficient Michigan roster. In college football you don't know that a staff is succeeding or failing until a few years later. Carr's final class has already been given the label of being a bust fwiw.
All that being said Hoke will benefit from RR's dirty work but so does Michigan and that is what is all about anyway. I root for the helmet, not the coach.
"The fact that we brought a coach in to run an entirely different scheme"
I wouldn't call that a fact. I'd say that the fact is that RR was hired to win games. How he chose to do it was up to him. Nobody thought it would take so long to achieve acceptable results (not Martin, not Coleman, not RR, not Brandon....) but it did. It's hard to categorize his tenure as anything but a failure based upon on field results. That's why he got fired....because he earned it.
Like everybody else, I was curious to see what Year 4 would bring. The last string of losses by 20, 30 and 38 (plus all six losses were by double digits) pretty much left DB without on option. RR had to go.
It really isn't hard to categorize his tenure as anything but a failure. He improved on the field by winning 2 more games every year he was here. We were bringing back 20 starters. His players were actually going to become Juniors.
But you are right. RichRod was brought in to win games. The problem is, no one would be winning a ton of games losing 10 starters on just the offensive side of the ball. This team was set up to be mediocre until the roster was built back up and RR was the guy who has unfairly taken all the blame. The NFL will find talent no matter the team or the coaching and since RR took over, we have had fewer than 10 picks, only 1 of them being before the 3rd round....and 1 of them was the punter. That is not a full cupboard. Shit, Lloyd did better than that on the offensive side of the ball alone in his last 2 years.
We live in a black and white world. I think that you're really stretching it in the gray areas if you consider improvement from 3-9 to 5-7 to be a "success".
The reality is that Michigan just had the worst defense in 100+ years of football in 2010. That followed the 2nd worst defense in 2009 and the third worst defense in 2008. Basically, RR owned the three statistically worst defenses (points and yards allowed) in the history of Michigan football. It's hard to find success in there.
3-9, 5-7 and 7-6 are three of the worst four team records in 40+ years. Again, I'm not seeing the "success" that you talk about.
Look, I don't want to pile on the guy. He had some things stacked against him. Personally, I think that the "bare cupboard theory" is a bit overblown. Michigan faced a similar situation in 2001 after losing Henson, A-Train, Hutchinson, Terrell....and they still managed to play in a New Year's Day bowl with John Navarre at QB.
The original question was "Did RR Deserve A 4th Year" and to me the answer was pretty clear.
Where did we stand the last few years?
And for 2011, the best question might have been, "Where did West Virginia rate on that matrix?"
Good-middling Player Quality, and truly great Coaching Quality...
BigBlue02 said "He improved on the field by winning 2 more games every year." He didn't label that as "success."
It would be nice if people would address the arguments that are actually made instead of setting up straw men.
sure why people are criticizing shoe for posting this article. if this was a freep hack i would join the mob, but hinton is very respected around these parts, and may be the best college blogger out there (that includes brian, IMO).
Or maybe I do. But no one has a problem with Hinton, as you say, he is very good. It's more a comment on what this thread will turn into.
First - Shake and Bake
Second - I agree with your assesment: the majority of the comments are more in fear of a repeat of the same discussions that have taken place for the past month. However, to accept this to be true creates an interesting dilema. Are those who make this board what it is in fear of what it has become???
I'm not sure it works in anonymous internet blogging environments.
I see where you're coming from.
Hopefully you're successful
if you are going to issue a Fatwa on All Things Rodriguez...
I don't think anyone has to convince Brian that they have the right to their own opinion. Except you.
This is a Michigan Football Blog. Not a Rich Rod Blog (though at times I can understand the confusion).
That explains all your posts! You think you're on a Rich Rod Blog! You've been in the wrong place all this time....ah... Well, I'm sure a google search can help you find the current Rich Rod Blog. I'm sure it's out there...somewhere... Good luck there!
This isn't an MSU basketball thread.
argument. It is fun to engage any argument but I have had enough. I get the the idea that it is fun to comment on this but I don't care anymore.
OK good luck RRod, his future success or lack thereof doesn't effect the merits of the decision at the time. I think he is a good guy and I say good luck. This is not a zero sum game, it is ok if both guys win.
really get by the mods for the 389th time?
Maybe he did maybe he didn't. What I wanted to see was rich rods offense with mattison as dc
I think that would have been great too...I just don't know who has Mattison was going to be...sure wasn't going to be Mattison
.the truth of that statement SysMark. Good call.
If you love somebody....set them free.
Obviously the final straw was the bowl game. If that game was a win, or even close, I think RR is still here, but that wasn't going to happen, as that game was an unmitigated disaster and we were completely unprepared. That falls on the HC.
DB's decision was facilitated by the complete unwillingness of RR to look at the defense and do something dramatic. It ended up looking like, for whatever reason, that RR just didn't recognize the problem, and that translates into a total failure on the part of management, said management in this case being RR.
In hindsight he made the firing decision pretty easy