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Did Crean tell Sheehey to flop?

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:05 AM | I think replay is a great (Score:1)
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2560

I think replay is a great tool.  I just don't think it makes sense to say that inherently unsportsmanlike conduct is acceptable because we can just review the play, which seems to be your suggestion.

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:27 AM | I'm trying real hard to word this carefully... (Score:2 Normal)
jhender85
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Joined: 10/25/2008
MGoPoints: 1389

I'm not trying to advocate flopping, but just like a good defensive player (like Novak did, for example) adds a little acting to the end of a charge to make sure he gets the ref's full attention, I don't have a huge issue with a player really emphasizing that a elbow has contacted his head.  With the elbow rule out in full force, having replay there for the officials to determine whether the contact was incidental or flagrant just personally makes me a little more comfortable with this dramatization (in moderation).  On the other end, flat out flopping and crossing your fingers that the ref buys it or will magically see something on the monitor that makes it swing your way is utterly uncalled for.

 

Edit: To show how biased I am on the subject of flopping, I was a long snapper in my football playing days and would purposely take a little bit longer to lift my head back up after a snap.  If someone dare try to touch me at least quasi head on while I was still in my prone position, I would flamboyantly drop to ground to let the ref know he needs to at least think about throwing his flag.  There is unfortunately an art behind the strategic flop and it serves a purpose (again, in moderation).

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February 27th, 2013 at 2:02 AM | I have no problem with people (Score:2 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
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I have no problem with people exagerrating a true foul to show the ref that it was indeed a foul.  I guess the problem I have is that the refs frequently DO buy this kind of blatant flopping.  It may be a different story with elbows, but I just think too much of the game today is trying to get the whistle.  There is a reason people make fun of professional soccer.  Flopping has done serious damage to the sport, and I don't want basketball to suffer the same fate.

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:06 AM | Nor can I (Score:3 Normal)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15742

Nor can I...

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 27th, 2013 at 1:12 AM | Okay (Score:4 Normal)
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 789

I may or may not come to your place of residence in anger because you reminded me of this. Hopefully the jury blows the call and I get off scot free.  

But really, all of us Tigers fans hate this, but are very proud of the class act Armando employed. He didn't bitch; he didn't yell; he didn't throw a fit; he smiled and said, "Come on man" in his head.

He's gone now, but I'll always be a fan of his for his class and Tigerdome.  

I love Greg Mattison

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:25 AM | Don't understand your point and .gif (Score:4 Normal)
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 789

That's like saying Indiana put 6 guys on the floor, but, EH, I've seen a team get away with 7 on the floor, so . . . ?

I love Greg Mattison

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:48 AM | I tried to play devil's advocate to my own point... (Score:-1 Flamebait)
jhender85
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Joined: 10/25/2008
MGoPoints: 1389

and put myself in your shoes to try to make that comparison make sense.  I can't.  That was just a god awful attempt at an analogy you made.  Contact, albeit very light contact,  from the Gopher player's arm was made to the guy's head, that's indisputable. Sheehey just milked the love tap way too much and refs considered the contact incidental, which it obviously was.  It was not phantom elbow as we saw with Manny Harris' one against Purdue a few years back.

Now, if you don't understand my gif (and seemingly don't understand body language and what someone shrugging their shoulders implies), I can't really help ya out there.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:58 AM | I understand RE: the contact and reaction (Score:4 Normal)
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 789

as well as what the gif means in itself.  But your post led me to believe that you were saying "I've seen worse."  This isn't an excuse for it being a foul/flop or not.  

I love Greg Mattison

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February 27th, 2013 at 2:10 AM | I don't think he was saying (Score:1)
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2560

I don't think he was saying "I've seen worse".  I think he was saying that the worst isn't as bad as it seems due to our ability to review the play.  I too found your simile a little puzzling.

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February 27th, 2013 at 9:23 AM | Sorry (Score:0 Overrated)
inthebluelot
Joined: 01/05/2010
MGoPoints: 89

No contact was made with his head.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:30 AM | Also you didn't (Score:5 Normal)
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 789

close your parentheses, which annoyed me for some reason. 

I love Greg Mattison

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:49 AM | It annoys me too. (Score:-1 Flamebait)
jhender85
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Joined: 10/25/2008
MGoPoints: 1389

I saw that after someone already replied to my post.  By the way, you didn't put a comma after "also," which is pretty grammatically obnoxious as well.  We're all human and thank goodness we're on a message board where grammar is irrelevant.

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:02 AM | I absolutely did not (Score:3 Normal)
Gobgoblue
Joined: 07/07/2012
MGoPoints: 789

but it is in a title so its okay right? (No.)

I know it's a message board and everyone makes mistakes and/or is more careless.  I didn't neg you FWIW.  I wouldn't say grammar is irrelevant.  

Didn't mean to be a dick about it, though I see that it sort of came across that way.  Sorry about that Jhender.  

I love Greg Mattison

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February 27th, 2013 at 6:22 AM | Or maybe be forgot to finish (Score:2 Normal)
dothepose
dothepose's picture
Joined: 12/30/2008
MGoPoints: 4261

Or maybe be forgot to finish his smiley face :)

You know, Dude, I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in 'Nam of course.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:32 AM | Yes (Score:2 Normal)
Hokemaniac24
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Joined: 09/02/2012
MGoPoints: 445

While frankly it was a huge douche move by Crean, I wouldn't put it past a lot of college coaches to do the same thing in that case... Doesn't make it right or acceptable, though.

2013 will be the year.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:36 AM | I have no doubt that (Score:3 Normal)
B-Nut-GoBlue
Joined: 09/30/2011
MGoPoints: 1686

I have no doubt that something out of that timeout-huddle led him to do that FLOP.  I called it and thought it as it happened and the replays they showed afterward gave me all I needed to think it a cheap flop.  Tirico and Dakich in their own way even said as much.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:34 AM | They were in a bad spot so I (Score:1 Normal)
WolverineinSB
Joined: 01/07/2009
MGoPoints: 203

They were in a bad spot so I don't have a problem with it no matter how much it may be frowned on but u need a miracle in that situation. And an elbow did hit his face even tho it wasn't malicious

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February 27th, 2013 at 9:10 AM | More like (Score:1)
Smash Lampjaw
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Joined: 11/10/2011
MGoPoints: 753

he hit the elbow with his face. You can foul with your face, can't you?

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:31 PM | I was just meaning there was (Score:1)
WolverineinSB
Joined: 01/07/2009
MGoPoints: 203

I was just meaning there was contact. I wasn't trying to say that it was a foul on minnesota.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:41 AM | Crean is a weasel and an Izzo prodigy (Score:1)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 826

But the real problem here is the idiotic rule that requires the refs to go to the monitor to review potential elbows.

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February 27th, 2013 at 9:04 AM | disagree about the rule (Score:3 Normal)
Mr Miggle
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Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 1609

I think it's the only thing that keeps the blatant flopping from being effective. Does anyone remember the OSU player faking getting hit with an elbow against us? I think it was in 2011. The replay showed the elbow missed by about a foot. What I find ridiculous is that a player can attempt such a flop without fear of penalty.

Eating is murder.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:45 AM | Yeah, he probably did (Score:2 Normal)
Blazefire
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Joined: 04/17/2009
MGoPoints: 15742

And he probably shouldn't have. I'm not that upset. This kind of thing happens. It's only a slight jump from telling a kid if he gets fouled to make SURE the refs know it. And any coach who wouldn't tell their players to sell a foul (a real foul), isn't doing it right.

"This is the EMU game, not the emo game."
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February 27th, 2013 at 1:09 AM | Exactly too many people here (Score:0 Flamebait)
WolverineinSB
Joined: 01/07/2009
MGoPoints: 203

Exactly too many people here act like everything that an opposing coach does is terrible and will ignore it if michigan does something like that. Crean was trying to win and there is nothing wrong with that. Go Blue!

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:20 AM | "Hello... You play to win the (Score:2 Normal)
WolverineFanatic6
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Joined: 10/29/2012
MGoPoints: 409

"Hello... You play to win the game "- Herm Edwards

There is god, there is family, and then there is MICHIGAN FOOTBALL

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:43 AM | Coaching like this just (Score:2)
Elmer
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2113

Coaching like this just doesn't belong in the game.  I've lost even more respect for Crean.

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February 27th, 2013 at 2:05 AM | Sweep the Leg! (Score:3 Normal)
mvp
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 554

Sweep the Leg!

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February 27th, 2013 at 3:08 AM | You have (Score:0 Offtopic)
DemetriusBrown
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Joined: 01/01/2013
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A problem with that?!?

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February 27th, 2013 at 2:20 AM | Wow, what a bullshit move. It (Score:4 Normal)
Ventilator
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Joined: 01/24/2012
MGoPoints: 179

Wow, what a bullshit move. It looks like Sheehey is leaning his head on the guy's elbow so that he'll move it right into his face. He's not even trying to defend or steal, he's just sitting there specifically to take a shot to the face.

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February 27th, 2013 at 3:44 AM | Sure seems like it. (Score:1)
backtoblu
Joined: 09/04/2012
MGoPoints: 250

Sure seems like it.

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February 27th, 2013 at 4:44 AM | I wonder how much time Crean (Score:3 Normal)
UMgradMSUdad
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Joined: 07/02/2011
MGoPoints: 1963

I wonder how much time Crean devotes in practice to fake fouls.

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February 27th, 2013 at 4:45 AM | I wonder how much time Crean (Score:2 Normal)
UMgradMSUdad
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Joined: 07/02/2011
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I wonder how much time Crean devotes in practice to fake fouls.

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February 27th, 2013 at 4:45 AM | I wonder how much time Crean (Score:2 Normal)
UMgradMSUdad
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Joined: 07/02/2011
MGoPoints: 1963

I wonder how much time Crean devotes in practice to fake fouls.

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February 27th, 2013 at 7:37 AM | As much time as you spend (Score:2 Normal)
Drbogue
Joined: 07/22/2011
MGoPoints: 408

As much time as you spend triple

Posting?

In Hoke we trust...

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February 27th, 2013 at 5:54 AM | "Take the fall, act hurt, get (Score:4 Normal)
Itsahilger
Joined: 03/14/2012
MGoPoints: 53

"Take the fall, act hurt, get indignant." -Gordon Bombay

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February 27th, 2013 at 7:58 AM | The main thing that makes me (Score:4 Normal)
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 4163

The main thing that makes me doubt that Crean instructed his players to flop is that it was Will Sheehy. Guy probably falls down after getting out of bed in the morning and looks around for a call.

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February 27th, 2013 at 8:19 AM | Maybe (Score:2 Normal)
samdrussBLUE
Joined: 01/21/2012
MGoPoints: 668

But the charge that Mbakwe tried to take against Zeller late in the half looked like a flop as well. He started leaning back and falling down before Zeller even made contact with him and he look astonished that a charge wasn't called. Different situations and time in the game, but my thought is a lot of flops happen out there and most of them are probably advised to the player in some way.

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February 27th, 2013 at 8:45 AM | Is flopping in BBall any (Score:2)
thisisme08
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Joined: 12/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1464

Is flopping in BBall any different than a punter flailing around whenever a defender gets within 2 inches of his foot?

When that happens everyone just laughs and shakes there head and says "thats football", who cares if Crean told a kid to flop, if the Refs call BS crap like that then the coaches deserve to go after that advantage. 

Blue is Faster

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February 27th, 2013 at 9:54 AM | When I saw this live I (Score:2)
Simps
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Joined: 08/11/2012
MGoPoints: 105

When I saw this live I thought maybe he did catch an elbow but after seeing the replay a few times it sure seems like a flop. It reminds me of the original Mighty Ducks movie when he coaches them to flop the entire game (when they were still "District 5" and sucked). 

“When your team is winning, be ready to be tough, because winning can make you soft. On the other hand, when your team is losing, stick by them. Keep believing” ― Bo Schembechler

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February 27th, 2013 at 10:47 AM | Yep. Time to start telling players (Score:1)
Gatekeeper
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Joined: 01/24/2010
MGoPoints: 116

to run around headbutting the other team's elbows and then falling down and start thrashing around wildly. Maybe you can even slam your head on the floor as you fall, so that you start to bleed and get blood all over. That will surely get someone thrown out.

.

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February 27th, 2013 at 11:20 AM | No question about it - FLOP (Score:2)
True Blue Grit
True Blue Grit's picture
Joined: 01/21/2011
MGoPoints: 1219

It didn't even look convincing in the least.  And Crean calling the timeout right before to mastermind the whole thing, then yelling at the refs immediately afterward to review it were clinchers.  

The Big Ten refs need to start dealing with this problem, otherwise unscrupulous coaches like Crean will abuse it even more.  All it will take is for them to call a few technicals on floppers and all this crap will stop pretty quickly.  

"You owe it to every man, woman, and child in the State of Michigan to beat the Buckeyes and silence their fans!  Now go out there and make it happen!"

- Bo Schembechler (Result: U-M 22  OSU 0)

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February 27th, 2013 at 11:40 AM | Consequences For Flopping (Score:1)
Meeeeshigan
Meeeeshigan's picture
Joined: 11/01/2010
MGoPoints: 160

Anyone else think there should be consequences for flopping in College Basketball, like there is in the NHL ("diving" penalties) and pro soccer (yellow cards for extreme flopping)? Why not give Sheehey a Technical there?

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:15 PM | Hey Creen....Karma...it's a bitch (Score:2)
kicknback1
kicknback1's picture
Joined: 02/03/2010
MGoPoints: 73

 

IU leaves rival guards off Naismith release

Indiana University might want to forget about him, but Trey Burke is definitely still around

The Hoosiers put out a news release Tuesday bragging that they have two finalists — Cody Zeller and Victor Oladipo — for the Naismith Player of the Year Award. 

Oddly, the list at the bottom of the release has only 28 names, although 30 finalists were chosen.

The first name missing was that of Burke, generally considered Oladipo's biggest rival for the Big Ten Player of the Year award and a strong contender for the Naismith Award. Burke is averaging 18.9 points, 6.9 assists and just 1.8 turnovers per game while leading Michigan to No. 4 in the latest Associated Press poll.

Along with Burke, the Hoosiers also left Rotnei Clarke, a senior from nearby Butler University, off the list.

When contacted by FOXSportsDetroit.com, J.D. Campbell, Indiana's senior assistant athletic director for media relations, said that the missing names were just an oversight.

"We will get it fixed," he said.  (they did btw)

Top-ranked Indiana finishes the regular season at Michigan on March 10, a game that still could decide the Big Ten championship. Their chances of winning would go up exponentially if Burke somehow ceased to exist.

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February 27th, 2013 at 12:18 PM | Great job (Score:1)
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 10384

Great job by Sheehey: if you put your face at a player's elbow level, it's pretty hard not to get hit.  It's like the old boxing joke about "leading with your face" but he really did it.

 

 

 

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:21 PM | I don't think we should be asking if this was a "flop" (Score:5 Normal)
Gitback
Gitback's picture
Joined: 04/12/2011
MGoPoints: 108

Describing this situation with the term "flop," to me, diminishes the nature of what were talking about here.  Its one thing to try and draw a conventional charge call by initiating contact and then exagerating the impact to maximize effect.  It could be debated that this is "part of the game" but is usually labelled "floping."  If this Sheehey play is what it appears to be (from the circumstantial evidence) this isn't a flop; its way beyond that.  Its flat dirty.  

This is not a regular, run-of-the-mill charge/blocking foul situation.  This is about a rule that has been implemented for player safety which, if the implications are correct, was used to bail out a team in a "no hope" situation.  Getting two shots and another possession was just about IU's only hope there, and the only way to accomplish that was to deliberately place a players face at elbow level of the opponent so that contact would be likely, resulting in a review and possible flagrant foul call.  Furthermore, given the apptitude of some of these refs, its not exactly a shot in the dark.    

The funny thing is that while I was watching the game, when this happened, everyone in the room exclaimed AT THE SAME TIME "did that dude just put his face into the guy's elbow on purpose?!?"  It appeared incredibly purposeful, and the replay made it seem even more so.  We were all skeptical but, I'm not going to accuse someone of something like that without more to go on.  

Now you take into account the timing of the TO, the clip of what Crean appears to be doing during the TO, that this occured directly after the TO, Crean's immediate reaction to the incident (screaming for a review without a moment's hesitation) and the implications are pretty strong; not conclusive, but pretty strong.

Calling this a "flop" is a slap in the face to honest flop artists everywhere.  

This is dirty, bushleague, "hurts the integrity of the game" type stuff.  Again, if true...

...I can puncho yo buns...

 

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February 27th, 2013 at 1:56 PM | Can't stand Sheehey but can't exactly remember why (Score:2)
Gordon Berenson
Gordon Berenson's picture
Joined: 04/13/2012
MGoPoints: 1579

There's this (but then they lost). And I think he drew a T when he dunked and then mouthed off against Illinois (also lost).

And I feel like there was something else that he did that was really annoying.

Though, it seems like Indiana tends to lose when he's a moron so maybe I should just embrace it.

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February 27th, 2013 at 2:45 PM | I'm sure he said if you get (Score:1)
Bb011
Joined: 09/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1745

I'm sure he said if you get hit even slightly by an elbow, elaborate it. While a little sketchy, its not really news worthy....

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February 27th, 2013 at 3:47 PM | 1 More Reason (Score:1)
Goblueman
Goblueman's picture
Joined: 11/09/2009
MGoPoints: 252

to hate Crean & IU.An obvious,pre-planned attempt to get a bogus flagrant foul.Fortunately the game was in The Barn or the refs may have bought the charade.

Goblueman-Wayne,Mich

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February 27th, 2013 at 4:15 PM | So what exactly is the replay (Score:2)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4703

So what exactly is the replay policy here?  If the replay had shown that the Minnesota player's elbow had caught Sheehey, is it an automatic foul on him even if accidental?

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