Devin should start at QB

has returned to glory.

 

Devin's not ready yet.  His situational awareness is lacking (running around on that final 4th down, throwing beyond the LOS, not noticing the playclock running down, etc).  His knowledge of the offense seems to be behind Denards (missing wide open Hopkins), and all in all, his passing wasn't that much better than Denards.

 

Devin throws a pretty ball.  He has good size.  Ideally he's a great QB.  But Devin and Denard are still both learning the system and both have a ways to go.  Denard gives you the home run threat on every play.  That is our best chance. 

Later today I'm going to try to suffer through a re-watch of the game but as of now I can't believe how many people are bitching about the play calling, particularly the first half.  No amount of genius playcalling is going to overcome Denard's inability to read a defense, pick up a blitz, poor choices/throws and general lack of command of an offense that requires more than 2 choices.  He can't seem to see the entire field nor does he seem to have the ability to slow the game down when under pressure.  Where were the screens?  How do you call a screen with a QB who has neither the patience or size/touch/composure to throw over oncoming defenders? 

I have no idea if Denard can get better.  What I do think though is that Borges has to continue to develop an offense around his vision, not Denard's limitations.   He has to be able to back a defense off the line with some simple completions and reads, he has to be able to hit a receiver who gets a step on his defender, he has to be able to know when to run when a pass play breaks down, he has to be able to keep his composure and execute.  If DG is the guy who can grow and competently execute that system, then so be it.

 

Fuck anyone who says Denard shouldn't be the QB.

Fuck them straight in the ear.

The grass is always greener.

You're forgetting that.  He made poor decisions, didn't hit his throws well either and doesn't run as well as Denard.  

He's going to be good, but the kid is still really green.

Denard had a horrible day, but like others have said, this is against the best front 7--and arguably best defense--we're currently scheduled to face all year.  

The backup qb is always a fan favorite if a team has some offense struggles.

While I personally don't think it's time for Gardner to be the first-string QB, people here need to be able to discuss things without constantly flying off the handle, making ad hominem attacks and such.

I agree, Denard should have done much better with no running game to support him, a full on blitz which saw him running for his figurative life (maybe literal life given MSU thuggery).  Also, obviously Denard's fault that he didn't properly mind meld Smith into making the right adjustment on the int.

Denard failed to make the quick reads against the blitz and failed to scramble, his best attribute, when the lanes were there. I don't know that DG is the answer, but putting Denard at tailback would certainly solve our other big problem in the backfield. And before you say that Denard couldn't handle the beating, our it's the lines fault the RB's don't gain yards. Denard already, before yesterday, runs the ball 20-25 times a game and he already runs the power play for good yards with the same line.

I love Denard, but it is not the winds fault when you overthrow your receivers by 10 yards...in Evanston.

That puts our best 11 on the field and I think Devin would be very effective running the zone read with Denard...it would open up the playbook. Can you imagine a screen to Denard?

 

Well, it comes down to which QB Hoke thinks has the higher ceiling. If it's Devin, then it's worth some growing-pains to get him there.

First, Michigan had only 67 attempts offensively on Saturday to get something done.

It was pretty balanced too: 36 rushing and 31 passing.

Borges did what he could to keep MSU's defense honest by throwing more. Not a bad idea given the Spartans shitty secondary. 

I don't really care about all this unnecessary roughness stuff.  That just sounds like a bunch of cry-babies who don't get their way. This is football, not golf.  Besides, I'm sure the Big Ten and upcoming opponents of MSU will do their part to make sure this doesn't happen anymore.  MSU can play like that if they want, but they should cry when players have to sit out against Wisconsin next week.

Narduzzi had MSU ready to play and they recruited talented players over the last few years. Time to recognize that fact.

Lastly, Michigan had 250 yards of total offense on Saturday. Denard personally contributed to 165 of those yards gained.  Nobody else stepped up.  Receivers dropped passes and the running backs did nothing special to contribute.

If you think Denard Robinson should be sat down in favor of Devin Gardner, who contributed only 30 positive yards in 13 attempts, then I think you need to be admitted to a mental institution.

Sorry, but there's nothing in the sample of Michigan's measly 67 offensive attempts that supports your argument.

 

 

 

See, that's why he should start.

a) Receivers dropped passes.

b) Receivers ran wrong routes.

c) Borges doesn't call pass plays Denard can complete.

d) Borges didn't adjust to MSU's defense in a way to let Denard succeed.

e) It was windy.

f) Denard just needs more time.

See?  It's never Denard's fault.  He is the Sacred Cow.  He is never at fault for anything.  To try to objectively point out shortcomings of his abilities as a QB is "throwng him under the bus."  Because he's such a likeable guy, that makes him a viable QB.  (Jump aboard the non sequitur train!)

The fourth and one play call was not a bad one i seem to remember us succeding with that call. It was just a very good defensive call by state

I don't know. I do know we aren't going to win a lot of big ten games with Denard playing QB.

My take? Try it out, at least. We have a bye week, why not spend it by letting Devin get used to the first teamers and let Denard try out RB? If it doesn't work against Purdue, we can go back to Denard at QB, and we can still walk away with a win. I, like a lot of others aroud here, had a knee jerk downvote reaction to this post, but give it some thought. Devin is the better passer at this point, and Denard at RB would be DEADLY! Can you imagine Devin & Denard in the backfield at the same time, with 4 WRs? How the hell do you defend that? Edit: Just think of all the stuff you could do with a RB like that! You could run pitch plays with a pass option, and have by far the most deadly wildcat package. The list goes on... Also, I know true dual threat QBs open up the pass, but MSU showed that you can easily beat a Denard led offense by stacking the box and going 1 on 1 with all the WRs, knowing that he cant beat you with his arm. I think having a better passer in at QB would open up the run, which would in turn help the pass, etc etc.

I think it's probably appropriate to consider the whole picture when talking about the game yesterday. There was a hugely significant wind that made it tough to pass as well as some questionable playcalling in terms of pass vs. run given the circumstances. Also, M kept giving a play-action fake that wound up getting Denard immediate pressure because MSU didn't have to respect the fake. Couple that with the lack of a bubble screen, mind boggling at this point, no draws or screens, (Unfortunately I don't think the middle screen is a good option at this point given Denard's accuracy issues, perhaps the play to Koger they showed against NW) it's hard to completely fault Denard. 

Obviously he will never be a great passer. I don't know many passers who are great when faced with constant pressure and high winds. I get as pissed as anyone when he air mails throws, but I'm not ready to give up on him at QB and toss a rs freshman out there. Denard was a 1st team All-American last year. I think they just need to keep working on some easier throws and run the damn ball more, (O-line issues aside, agree with Brian that zone blocking seems to be their forte, remember when Omameh was supposed to be the next great lineman?). All these things aside, they need to find a running back. I like Fitz but he has yet to break  a tackle on the second level. I like V. Smith blocking and catching passes and occasionally mixing in the run. However, you see a lot of teams with backs who can get to the second level and turn 4 into 11 or 14. M lacks that. I'd try Rawls. Mainly because I thought, line problems aside, Fitz and Smith both struggled breaking gains against NW. You have to give someone else a chance, and we all know Shaw's bounce game. Lond post aside, keep Denard,  run more, shorten throws, zone block, Rawls. It's easier to coach from my computer. 

It's Denard's first year learning the new offense. It's also probably the first time anyone ever bothered to coach him on his technique, timing, throwing mechanics and footwork. 

If Gardner had it all in place in terms of these things, then he would be the starter already. Both quarterbacks are still learning to execute this offense.

But it's a major strategic mistake anyway to put the game all on one player. See Tate Forcier in 2009 Michigan team. Michigan needs playmakers all around, especially in the running game. Michigan's running backs have not done enough to help this offense and release the pressure off Denard.

 

 

DG will be a great QB for us down the road, but until we can team him with an effective running game, it won't work out.  At least Denard self-generates something of a running game.

Until we have an effective running game, it won't matter if Tom Brady is the starter.

 

Yeah I think its time honestly. Denard could be just like a Dexter Mcluster type player. He could be way better in my opinion doing so many different things offensively and even defensively... Denard off the edge like a CB on a blitz to hurry the QB, Lol. Anything is possible with a guy like Denard. I think its time to make the change to maximize the teams potential for the year, Denards, and Devins.

I am sure this has been mention in this thread. I honestly haven't read the entire thing, but Devin needs his share of coaching up as well.But as someone who was at the game,he missed a guy streaking down the middle of the field with nobody within 15 yards of him twice. I am not sure Devin is the magic wand that everyone expects him to be quite yet.

Yes, Denard has gotten M to 6-1. So that apparently means he should continue to take virtually all the snaps at QB for the rest of the season. Fine. After Purdue, when M will be 7-1, M faces four teams that at least know how to play some semblance of defense. The DCs of those teams will have studied the MSU game film. They too will cram 8–9 in the box and dare Denard to beat them with his arm which, given his track record thus far, he will not be able to do.

The result will be 2010 all over again --- INTs, a pick 6 or two, defense on the field too long and too often, zero rushing attack, Denard knocked out of games sometime in the early fourth quarter, and an inexperienced Gardner taking his place. M beats either Illinois or Iowa, loses to Nebraska and Ohio, and ends up 8-4 rather than last year’s 7-5 (before the bowl game). Progress of a sort, maybe.

As presently configured, this one-dimensional offense has little chance of putting up enough points to defeat a good D. The time has come to consider seriously a change in the offensive game plan that puts Devin and Denard on the field almost all the time, with Devin doing most of the throwing and Denard doing the receiving and running. The result might not be better than 8-4, but it least such a configuration has the possibility of improving on that record, whereas the current configuration does not.   

 

Our running backs don't do a whole lot.  Pulling Denard essentially means quitting running unless you want both of our non freshman scholarship QB's constantly taking hits.  Also, Devin was not exactly stellar yesterday.

I find this whole foofaraw amusing and ridiculous, but not because it somehow shouldn't be discussed.

Here's what's amusing and ridiculous: doesn't it seem like this is the sort of conversation Hoke and Borges probably had several times in the spring? I mean, have some humility. And what they concluded is that Denard should learn Borges's pro-style offense, which they to some degree tried to implement for Western and ND, and to some degree have scrapped in favor of Borges-Denard fusion.

So think about it: when they thought they were going to implement the mostly pro-style offense, they decided Denard was better at it. Now that they have moved to elements of the spread n' shred attack, they have still decided Denard is better. Why exactly do we think Devin would be better at the hybrid when the coaches have already decided that he isn't even better to run the pro-style?

My view: if Denard > Devin at the pro-style and Denard is having trouble with the pro-style elements of the offense, then the offense should be tailored even more to Denard's strengths. Which would involve the outside zone read and the bubble screen, I think. I mean, Cousins didn't exactly set the world on fire yesterday, but he had a competent running attack to rely on. I think Borges needs to tweak the running game and the passing game to give Denard some easier throws that he has demonstrated he can make.