Devin Gardners best assets(not his size) and why he will (eventually) be a great QB here
In response to all of the Forcier/ Gardner talk here lately, I think we are missing the point. Some people seem to think Devin Gardner is better than forcier and should start immediately because of his size and strength. I could not disagree more, nor do I think that they are his best tools. What makes me excited about that kid is the fact that he does not seem to be reading his own press clippings and annointing himself as a deity (a la Pryor). He has worked hard and humbly over the last couple of years to improve the areas he was the weakest at. I fully expect him to come in and work just as hard over the next couple of years, earning respect from his teamates, improving technique and learning the offense. When he finally gets his chance, whenever that is, I expect him to be a leader and a hell of a QB. Forcier has guts and leadership qualities, as well as good football skills, and I expect him to do well as the starter for the forseable future. Both of these kids play hard, and without knowing them personally, they seem to be quality kids who will work to live up to whatever potential they were given. If your quarterbacks can display that kind of example, maybe the rest of our team will do the same. I don't care how many stiff arms Pryor threw in the Rose Bowl, I think we are in good shape with these kids on our team. Anyone of us who has ever played football, or any sport for that matter, can list off 3-4 guys who had tons of skill, but never lived up to it. That is why we talk about intangibles and watch game film instead of reading someones measurables and annointing them a great football player. That is not to say that Devin Gardner is not helped by being his size, or that Tate wouldn't love to be 6-4 220, but if size and speed were the only things you needed then every QB in college and the NFL would look exactly the same. Instead, you have Peyton Manning, Vince Young, Tim Tebow and Tate Forcier.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:48 PM ^
Long post for a thread, but you want Gardner's best assets:
He can beat a gazelle in a race.
He can throw with Elway's power and Brees' accuracy.
He can run the zone read in his sleep.
He eats his Wheaties.
Am I forgetting anything?
January 4th, 2010 at 1:04 PM ^
Sorry for the long post, I obviously have not figured out the whole diary/ board thing
January 4th, 2010 at 7:58 PM ^
Paragraphs break it up nicely. ;~)
January 4th, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
"He can run the zone read in his sleep."
Enough said.
January 4th, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
Don't wake the beast.
January 4th, 2010 at 10:40 PM ^
Eats his Wheaties
January 4th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
yah you know me.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:54 PM ^
Watching Devin G competing in the UA game all by his Wolverine lonesome self against top recruits who were committing to Florida, FSU and Bama et al got me thinking. Aren't UM players faring pretty well in the Pros? Similarly aren't Big Ten pro guys doing pretty well compared to players from other conferences? Yet conventional wisdom is that Florida, Texas and USC are where you need to go if you want to be a great pro player right? Eh....let's look at the Pro Bowl numbers. Granted, the college game is a much different game than the pro game, but when recruiting, all of you would readily concede, kids respond to what your former players are doing in the NFL. They do. (Mentioning that your players marry Brazilian Supermodels doesn't hurt either.) Working with that approach, the SEC cannot say it dominates the top of the pro ranks when looking at the Pro Bowl rosters.
The best conference represented in the Pro Bowl? Strangely, the ACC with 15 guys. The ACC as you know, is consistently ranked as the worst or second to worst BCS Conference, yet they dominate the Pros.
7 of those 15 ACC guys went to The U. SEVEN. One School. Crazy. No other school had anything close to that.
What school in the State of Indiana has the most players? IU has 1, Purdon't has 1 and nobody from Notre Dame.
The school placing the second most players? The University of Michigan with 4 guys: Woodson--your likely NFL Defensive POY, Steve Hutchinson, Brady and J. Long. (LaMar Woodley--who finished 3rd in the league with sacks, Leon Hall and Dhani Jones arguably should have made the cut too according to a number of reputable commentators.) USC, Florida, Texas, Notre Dame and Ohio State COMBINED have as many players as Michigan (4) in the Pro Bowl! Think about that.
The very interesting breakdown, (excluding kickers and punters):
ACC-15 (Miami with 7)
SEC-11 (Nobody from Florida--how about THAT?!; Bama with 2)
Big Ten-9 (4 from Michigan; 1 from OSU--Nick Mangold; Iowa-1; Indiana-1; Wisky-1; Iowa-1; and NOBODY from MSU or PSU)
Pac Ten-9 (Only 1 from USC--Cushing. Granted, Polomalu would have gotten a nod if healthy.)
Big Twelve-7 (Texas with 2, Okie with 1)
Should I forward this e-mail to RR as he goes head to head with Florida, ND, Ohio State, Texas and USC in the days leading up to National Signing Day?
January 4th, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^
Kent State is three times the NFL factory that is the Buckeyes! (Harrison, Gates, Cribbs)
January 4th, 2010 at 3:03 PM ^
It's well known that the late 90s and early 00s at the U was a factory for future NFL pro bowlers. But it's not entirely fair to put those guys as ACC guys, as almost all those guys were at Miami before '03. Remember, Miami, BC, and VT were in the Big East pre-2003, so I guess you'd have to quantify many of the ACC guys as Big East players.
January 4th, 2010 at 11:36 PM ^
The U is still The U, though. They are still putting out good NFL talent. +1 to you for remembering that, good sir.
January 4th, 2010 at 5:25 PM ^
Your comments would have made for a good topic for a forum. I wonder if the coaches also use those numbers to convince recruits that the sec is not what it's cracked up to be. Maybe that is the secret ingredient in RR's beloved snake oil...lol
January 4th, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^
I have said all along, we never did get the quantity of 5 star recruits the south and west did, we cannot compete with weather and girls in bikinis. We get the 3 and 4 star Football players coach them up, then send them to the next level to make millions. When they get there because they are Football players they do not embarrass themselves and Michigan. Its all good ,thanks to all the Michigan players in the NFL.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:55 PM ^
Wow, some people are sensitive to mythical comparisons.
January 4th, 2010 at 12:57 PM ^
guess i was sleeping through all the holiday(and previous) posts. i missed all the "DG must start and TF and DR are now garbage" posts. the posts that i've seen have been that we really need to redshirt him. his size and talent is great but he really needs a year to get ready for the college game. Tate will be fine this year. although what i really hope is that DG is good enough to move into a back-up role, hoping Tate stays healthy and we can move DR into a percy harvin death machine to opposing defenses.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:06 PM ^
mostly it has been a couple of guys arguing that tate is too small. My point was that I like Gardner's attitude as much as his size, and think that he will be better after sitting a couple of years than other guys in his position because of his desire to improve.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:19 PM ^
He will not beat out Tate so barring injury to Tate, I believe you have to redhirt Devin then we are set at QB for the next five years.
Remember RR has won in his second year at programs however he had the same QB his second year unlike here, I don't count that first year no one and I mean no one could have won with the mighty Steve Threet running the offense, It is going to be an amazing year 10-2 (losses to Penn St and Wisc)
January 4th, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
I'm no TP fan. But the kid's gone 19-4 as a starter his frosh and soph years, including a Rose Bowl win.
I think our fan base's tendency to point out that TP is a diva at any opportunity is directly related to the fact that, odd throwing mechanics and "down Big 10" or not, dude wins ball games like woh.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:48 PM ^
Not likes he's got a team to back him up or anything
How many games has he more or less single-handedly lost? How many games did OSU win despite him?
Incidentally, most Buckeyes with whom I spoke (so this sample is definitely biased toward being reasonable enough to talk with a UM fan) early in the season lamented Pryor's poor decision-making and game awareness, some openly wished that Pryor had Forcier's poise and understanding.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:57 PM ^
I work with tons of buckeye's and 90% want him to switch positions. I haven't talked to any since the Rose Bowl though.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
And that he has a team backing him up (incidentally, doesn't that make the "how many games he more or less single-handedly lost" q sound off-base? I mean, the answer is obviously "none." Same as how many he more or less single-handedly won, right?).
But honestly, OSU fans lamenting Pryor's poor decision making and game awareness means little to me. That's what crazy fans do - unfairly critique underclassmen for having underclassmen traits.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:13 PM ^
Yes. I experienced the same thing. Now, I'm sure they've all changed their minds and have decided he will win the next two Heisman trophies and NC's setting all sorts of QB records. He will then be the #1 pick in the '12 draft and immediately lead his team to the Super Bowl and be crowned the greatest QB of all time. They knew it all along, they were just slightly worried he might not live up to the hype. The USC and Purdue games were only minor setbacks. The Vest is the greatest coach of all time as well.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:03 PM ^
I have been thinking the same thing for a while now. It is easy to take shots at opposing players and coaches on a fan website, but the reality is Pryor is very good. He might not be a great pro qb, but neither will Tebow and I would kill for either of them. I thought it was a little crazy that people were saying Tate was a better qb than Pryor after week two. I love Forcier and think he will have a really good career, maybe better in the end than Pryor, but right now Pryor is better, at least overall. Forcier is clearly more accurate.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:07 PM ^
I can't stand TP. Probably my least favorite CFB player since David Boston.
But I think we're reaching "straw grasping" time when criticizing an underclassman that has put up 19-4, and the following: 1311 passing, 12/4 ratio, 146 rating, and 631/6 (rushing/TDs), followed by 2094 passing, 18/11 ratio, 129 rating, and 779/7 (rushing/TDs).
Obviously OSU has a good team. And they apparently have a good, soon to be upperclassman, QB, no?
January 5th, 2010 at 8:34 AM ^
The problem with Pryor isn't the fact that he went to OSU. Instead the issue with him is that he can't throw the ball with any type of consistency. He throws three passes
a) screen
b) 5-8 yard "out route"
c) occasional deep ball "streak or go route"
That's all he can throw, yes he is 19-4 but the main reason for that is the play calling of Tressel. Tressel keeps the play calling at a minimum for these resasons. He can't step up in the pocket and please let me know what he threw the ball over the middle at any point this season. He can't read any type of defense, no matter what you say he has been less than a stud since he started playing two years ago. If he can learn to read a defense and step up in the pocket then any team playing OSU in the future will have issues.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:08 PM ^
I totally agree that TP is an outstanding athlete.
But, TP is also a human being. And it looks like he's going to end up as a very "interesting" human being as well. Sometimes, those type of people draw way more attention than the all-star athletes. We'll see where he ends up.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:23 PM ^
I think the kid is going to be good, but my heart can't take another true freshman qb year. Lets hope we can get through another year of Tate/D-rob/OLD#8 then switch D-rob to slot and let Tate and DG fight it out with a two year gap between them.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^
Please don't ever mention Tate with those names again. Tate is Tate. He's not Drew Brees or any of the fore mentioned names.
I'll tell you why I feel Devin will be the guy.
1) He's a better fit for the offense. His size and speed are superior and will allow the spread option to be more effective. This will open up other parts of the offensive.
2) Tate is not a leader. Yes, he plays hurt. He also pouts on the sideline. He argues with coaches. Threatens to transfer when he's not getting his way. He uses facebook as his public forum to give out inside informations. Rule number one for any team is that what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker. None of this behavior says "leader" and is a big turn off to players. I don't expect this from Devin. If he does the same then I would be the first to criticize him for it.
3) He's probably smarter than Tate. The kid was accepted to U of D Jesuit HS. It might be the best academic school in the state and was recently featured in Time magazine. The Jesuits don't give a damn about how big of an athletic stud you are and are all about education. It's a college prep Ivy league feeder. If you don't pass the entrance exam you don't get in period. Devin only left because the football team was so terrible they didn't win a game his first two years. U of D is a great school but the athletic program is wanting.
4) Every recruiting service and analyst have Devin rated higher. Stars don't mean much to people on this board but there is a reason PSU and OSU are winning the Big Ten right now. Talent trumps moxie 9 out of 10 times. There is no question that there five stars they don't pan out. 3 and 4 stars fail at a much higher rate.
5) When the competition gets better Devin excels. The Elite 11 and the UA game are proof the kid does not shy away from elite competition. People who have seen this kid at weeks at a time always come away impressed.
6) Stronger arm. Devin has on of the top three arms in his HS class. He can make all the throws. Tate's balls over 15 yards tend to float. DB's break on his ball easily. Tate threw 10 int's but could have had 5-7 more had defenders held onto the ball.
7)RichRod probably likes Devin better. Tate was RichRod's forth choice at QB. Pryor, Newsome, and Beaver were the guy RichRich initial choices. Tate came on board only after they went to better teams. When your coach calls you "Hollywood" and talks about your academic progress in public, it doesn't sound like your in his favor. RichRod gave Denard the chance to take the job but he couldn't step up. Devin was targeted early and has had a Pryor like recruitment. When he gets in camp RichRod is going to get him every chance to win the job.
There you have it. I'm looking forward to a QB competition that we haven't seen since Brady vs Henson. This will be great for the team and make both QB's step their game up. Anointing QB's hasn't been the answer and even burned us during the Henson era. I hope Devin can make it to spring practice so we can get early reports on his progress.
January 4th, 2010 at 1:41 PM ^
Please go away.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:18 PM ^
truth hurts huh???
January 4th, 2010 at 2:27 PM ^
Ok, we get it already... you don't like Tate. He's too short and doesn't weigh 225 pounds. You don't have to bring it up in every thread.
Either change the subject or stop posting.
For now, your Neg-On-Sight status is still active.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:28 PM ^
This is a Michigan board. 99% of the posters here are UM fans.
If you speak the "truth", and DG is the guy, why would that "hurt?"
I wanted to like your comment (being a U of D grad who agrees, generally, with the assessment that the strong academic focus hamstrings the athletic program), but when you take such a childish tone and follow it with the irrationally petulant "truth hurts huh????" I have to go with a thumbs down.
I am excited about DG though. Too bad he didn't stick at U of D - that'd be 2 U of D athletes at UM... making it 2 more than, um, ever, from recent memory.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:22 PM ^
I did my first two years and transferred for many of the same reasons. Great school but the athletic program is not on the same level. The Jesuits are there to educate and not win games. There is nothing wrong with that. I don't regret leaving and I doubt Devin does either. Sorry for being childish but after so many "You Suck", "Go Away", and "He's going to be good because I like him" you stoop to other folks level.
If someone takes a shot at me then I probably going to take a better shot at them. I'd say the same thing to their face because I'm not a big bullshitter. I really don't need internet friends. I'm not big on posting either but I have the flu right now and I am stuck in bed. I not in the best of moods right now so if you take a shot at me expect the worst. LOL. Don't worry guys as soon as I get better you won't be hearing much from me. LOL.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:28 PM ^
Transferring from the "High" for sports reasons is odd unless you are, in fact, Devin Gardner. In which case, good luck next year at UM.
January 4th, 2010 at 5:23 PM ^
Geez, what happened to the Cubs? When I attended we won the Catholic 1A title and lost to Gary Danielson and Divine Child for the league championship! Transferring from UDHS for sports reasons? BTW, UDHS typically sends the highest proportion of its graduating seniors to UM than any high school in Michigan. I am surprised they don't send more athletes. In any case, DG should do well for Michigan even if, as I pray each night, DickFraud leaves in two years.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:30 PM ^
you are compelled to post, that you have brought any useful/insightful comments to the site that we simply ignore out of fear (??!), and that we would actually give a shit if you "took a shot at us" on the internet.
Wrong on all counts.
January 4th, 2010 at 5:30 PM ^
Is obviously in the middle of his/her hormonal cycle today. The need to disagreeably disagree is strong with you!
January 4th, 2010 at 2:50 PM ^
There's 100 things wrong with your post but I'll just address #7. Pryor was in a different recruiting class and thus cannot be measured as a "choice" above Tate. Are you stupid?
Tate came one board when BOTH Newsome and Beaver were solid commitments to Michigan. Idiot.
RichRod gives every player at every position a chance to win the job. Denard being given a chance to compete means nothing.
Where the hell is all this "Hollywood" talk coming from? Assuming it exists, it's not necessarily an attack.
"You're"
Now, please go away (preferably back to MLive) and don't come back.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:09 PM ^
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/oct/02/michigan-stimulus/
Rodriguez has taken to playfully calling Forcier “Hollywood,” and last week against Indiana the 19-year-old produced a movie-like script
It didn't mention why he gave him that nickname but there is some truth behind it.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
"Hollywood" is being used as a playful nickname and nothing more. How the hell you extrapolated from that that RichRod doesn't like Tate is beyond me.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:47 PM ^
Unless my memory is terrible, Newsome decommitted before Forcier committed.
January 4th, 2010 at 3:10 PM ^
You're not just a bad troll, you're an idiot as well.
January 4th, 2010 at 4:25 PM ^
I'm 99% sure I remember posts exactly like this on why Kevin Grady would overtake Mike Hart as the starter after Hart's freshman year. Grady was bigger, stronger , better recruit, blah blah blah.
How about we let Spring happen before we make bold pronouncements about which QB will win the Heisman?
January 4th, 2010 at 1:56 PM ^
Blue horseshoe love Devin Gardner
January 4th, 2010 at 6:24 PM ^
I hope he is made of Anacott Steel
January 4th, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
Whichever QB can run the best ball fakes and option reads, and hit the open receiver, is the one I want starting.
January 4th, 2010 at 2:40 PM ^
I'm gonna grab a beer...
January 4th, 2010 at 3:31 PM ^
Why did you post your Devin Gardner campaign ad in here? I'm pretty confident you have this domain locked up for the election of what ever it is he's running for.
January 4th, 2010 at 8:46 PM ^
Gardner has tremendous upside, but needs to redshirt for sure.
-needs to put on weight and strength
-needs to improve as a passer. hes made great strides and he can only get better
-needs to become a more physical runner, but that will likely come with weight and strength
-needs to do dot drills, or any other exercise possible to improve his quickness/take off. he looks pretty darn fast straight line, but his quickness and take off seem to be lacking
i think Devin is like a combo of Tate and Denard with a frame advantage that neither of them have. Devin will be a very good dual threat QB, and is a physically imposing prospect. that coupled w the experience he'll gain before he takes over as the starter will be very beneficial.
January 4th, 2010 at 8:02 PM ^
"Anyone of us who has ever played football, or any sport for that matter, can list off 3-4 guys who had tons of skill, but never lived up to it."
Ryan Mundy first came to mind, but dammit, I just saw him make a sweet pass break-up in the endzone on Sunday.
Cissoko is the next to come to mind...