That is all.
spoiler alert: i linked this
Shouldn't this be a diary?
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Sharing is a bunch of bull, too. And helping others. And what's all this crap I've been hearing about tolerance?
Considering you are who we know you are, this is more informative than the content contained within. Are you watching InkSTAR?
He ran for two touchdowns and threw for two more in their first round playoff game tonight.
That's why he's good.
I'll put it like this: Good luck redshirting him next year. He threw maybe 6 or 7 passes all night (Edsel Ford's coach decided to go all 1989 Bo vs. ND and kick to the same speedster twice, 2 KR TDs, game got well out of hand), but he was just toying around out there. Ripped off a 60 yard TD that looked like Vince Young's 2nd TD vs. Michigan in the Rose Bowl, he just got the sideline and coasted, even past players that had angles on him. He ran in a pair of two point conversions and a 4th down TD, he looked freaking bored out there, went in standing up each time, probably could've moonwalked if he wanted to.
I don't see any way he redshirts. If he manages to graduate early, he's going to play, period. He's not in a college S&C program yet, and he looks like a seasoned college football player.
sounds great. i hope he can get in early, not only to get experience, but to open up another spot for a possible DB. on one hand i want him to redshirt to space out our qbs. on the other hand it would be great to have him and tate at qb and make denard a percy harvin type.
everyone can see why i've been mad that he's not a 5 star on rivals. dude's a freak
I understand you were upset about his not being a 5 star but I find it hard to believe that it was now that everyone agrees with you that he is a freak and sees what you see. That it took an OP of "Devin gardner is very, very good" to open everyones eyes and side with you.
I know you probably didn't go to the Steubenville game, but i would much rather declare him as "very, very good" after that performance against a highschool that's better than Inkster (4td in the air, 1 on the ground), than one of the worst pairings in this playoff. If you put Tate Forcier or Denard Robinson up against Edsel Ford last year and had that as the only film, you'd probably predict a 12-0 record for Michigan this year.
If the circumstances were different, hes a good redshirt candidate. His flicking motion would probably be frowned upon, but, I don't want him to redshirt purely because he'll come in and finally be the running QUARTERBACK we need. He can pass just as effectively as Forcier (better in my opinion, he just places the ball where ever he wants), and can pose a huge threat as a runner, which is the final peice to Rodriguez's offense (Oh, and some hands for Saturdays when we lose them).
"Pass just as effectively as Forcier"? No way. Nooooooooo way.
Maybe he looks that way against HS competition, but he won't look that against BCS D1 competition his freshman year when he doesn't know the playbook or he's getting chased by 1st round NFL draft picks.
Forcier is really, really accurate for a frosh. If our O-line could pass block worth a damn Forcier would have a really high pass efficiency rating. DG might get there one day, but it won't be next year.
agree somewhat but it's just a difficult comparison to make in general. Forcier actually had a mediocre pass completion % in HS (i believe as a senior).
If Gardner can't pass as effectively as tate then he shouldn't play his freshman year. I shouldn't have to bring up Tates numbers against Big Ten competition to illustrate this.
TOB is on Devin train! Anyone else wanna jump on before it leaves the station?
Cool story, brah.
Okay, I know everyone wants to see Gardner right away. HOWEVA, I think he NEEDS to redshirt. He can spend a year getting Barwisised and learning the office. IIRC, someone mentioned in another thread that Pat White redshirted. He went on to become the only quarterback to win four bowl games. I can't link to the thread because I am web challenged. We have seen two freshman QB's struggle with the offense. Of course Molk being injured doesn't help. Do we really need to see the same thing next year?I would rather see Gardner learn for a year instead of being thrown in the fire right away.
All you have to do is copy the address, and paste it into your comment. It's like three clicks.
Vince Young, one of the best college QB's of all time, redshirted and was still a very mediocre passer (18 TD's, 18 INT's) the first two seasons he played (though his rushing numbers did remain consistently awesome all 3 years). We've all seen the struggles Pryor has had so far in his career. Clausen was terrible as a freshman. True freshmen are virtually never ready to play at quarterback and shouldn't be thrown to the fire unless it is absolutely necessary (SEE your only experienced option is Sheridan). Gardner will very likely be awesome, but tearing up high school kids (like every blue chip recruit can do) doesn't mean he is ready to play as a true freshman next year. Luckily we already have two extremely talented kids who will have gone through the growing pains and should be markedly improved next year. This should mean we'll all only have to see Gardner at his very best when he gets to UM.
were all the Inkster moms who were wearing "Product of Inktown" shirts. I want one.
And yeah, DG is sorta good at football.
Yeah...that sounds pretty accurate.
if for no other reason than it spaces out the QBs. i'd also like to not have to trot out yet ANOTHER true freshman at QB.
Agreed. Especially since we obviously have a VIABLE option with experience at QB.
Agreed. Tate is definately going to be the starter (to start the year), but why not bring in D.G the same way Denard is seeing play this year? And move Denard to the Mr. Everything position on offense (slot/wildcat/tailback/puntkickreturns)? Imagine having Devin and Denard running an option..
Why does everyone assume Denard would be able to run routes, catch passes, and not drop punts when guys who have done it their entire high school and college careers are having so much trouble doing it (though it is probably understandable since they are basically all so young)?
Denard is a quarterback and will stay at quarterback and I happen to think he will be a damn good one. He's already proved he is an elite runner from the position and he has the physical tools to be a competent passer (which is all you need to be a super-productive QB when you have his running ability to draw up the defense). Before Tate blew up in his first few games, everybody went on and on about how Rodriguez needed a Pat White-type to run his system. Well, Denard is that guy (only faster and with a stronger arm). The difference is that White got to sit and learn for a year and then get his feet wet sharing time and playing in the crappy Big East (even then his passing numbers were limited). Let's not give up on a kid with this much ability just because his development resembles that of nearly every single quarterback ever (meaning he isn't able to read BCS conference defenses as a true freshman).
Having Denard and Tate is an embarrassment of riches and it means we don't have to rush Devin and listen to people complain that "he isn't as good as we expected" a year from now.
a very good opinion.
Why not? Chad Henne got gypped out of the heisman as a true freshman, that, therefore, is a 100% empirically proven indubitable fact that all true freshman at M will be flat out awesome.
Can't argue with perfect logic.
You should probably break any habit you have of using the word "gypped"...
Are you a gypsy?
Perhaps. Gypsies are mysterious.
It represents the thinking of those who say "but Chad Henne!" whenever it is suggested that true freshmen typically do not play very well.
same here. Unless he gives us a significantly better chance of winning every game next year, just RS him and space out our QBs.
unless he can't get to campus early. Even then, only maybe. Downright, flatout, stud of the (hate to say it) Pryor variety. Difference is he's more advanced as a football player at the same time. It's going to be very, very hard to keep him off the field.
Physically similar. From what I can tell from the videos/interviews I've seen/heard he appears to be much more humble, intelligent, and teachable than Pryor. Not to mention he's got an arm we can drool over as well.
The way Tate plays over these last several games will have a lot of influence on how DG is handled, I think. If he goes all ND on us and beats OSU, then there's really no way that RR can't make Tate the undisputed starter and majority snap-taker next year. There's a public opinion factor here. I'm sure RR would like to be able to stagger his QBs, and Tate having an excellent close to this season would make redshirting DG more justifiable. However, if Tate continues to struggle then it will be harder to keep DG from getting snaps. That may not be fair to Tate, but DG is who we thought he was.
Tate went all Tate on ND this year, and R2 still played Drob, who isn't half the qb as DG. Drob dropped back and threw a pick that came very close to costing us the game. If he did it there, why wouldn't he do it next year? Not saying DG will start, or even get 1/2 snaps, but I definitely see him playing and getting more snaps than Drob.
Of course, I kinda wish he would redshirt.
But, realistically, there's just no way. He's gonna press for time. R2 is gonna have pressure again next year, warranted or not, and he's really going to want to be sure there's not a hiccup because by his fourth year, there will be very little forgiveness. Only chance to redshirt is if he's behind picking up the system mentally because he doesn't get here early.
Plus, especially with this offense, I think you've got to have two bona fide guys who can play qb. Nick's gone after this year, even if you considered him as bona fide. I don't think Drob can hack it as a passer, and to redshirt DG would mean that you'd have to rely exclusively on Tate. I don't think R2 is ready(nor should he be) to do that.
I think you make a good point about the pressure that will be on RR to win next year. He's definitely not going to be off the hook unless the team does really well the rest of this season (and even then, there are Rosenbergs). In that respect, I could see him not thinking of the future but rather wanting to win as many games as possible immediately. Still, he's kept Turner out this year when we obviously could use help now at DB. I think if Tate blows up the last four games there's a better chance DG will get the shirt.
I am sure that Gardner is very, very good.
However, I am always dubious about reports on a HS player's skill. I remember how "awesome" Grady 1 & 2 were in HS. Can't miss prospects. Now, they're good players, but they haven't lit the world on fire. I don't know the stats, but how many 5 star players are there out there? 30? What is the ratio of these to the total pool of hs football players? 1 to 100,000? The point is not that Gardner isn't great. He is. The point is that he is so good compared to the current competition, it is hard to evaluate him accurately. More, I fully agree with every poster who has suggested how hard it is for a Freshman QB to come in and succeed. When Freshman QB's do well, isn't it almost always when they have a very experienced supporting cast?
If Gardner comes in early, and he clearly outshines Forcier, he would need to get a chance. But it is very doubtful to me that this will happen. If he is not EE, there is no way he passes Forcier. And even with EE, it is very, very unlikely he comes close.
If Gardner comes in early, does very well, but still is clearly a couple steps behind Forcier, I would want a redshirt for spacing, as also mentioned above.
Hey, he is such a good athlete...why don't we try him out at receiver? He would be so good there. With his athleticism he would see the field right away.
Or maybe we could have a three quarterback system with Tate, Denard, and Gardner all in the....sorry, I can't keep it up. This is too much even for sarcasm.
Gardener can come in and play right away. I'm watching BJ Daniels right now, and he is a stud. He can do things that Forcier will never be able to do with his size and speed. Gardener can potentially do these things. If he lives up to the hype, then I think we may see him play next year, and start by the end of the year. Everyone says give Tate time because he is a freshman, but we are seeing other freshman like Daniels who seem to have figured out the game despite their lack of experience. Forcier may not have the athleticism to hold off Gardener long term, and in this offense, I think this athleticism is key. Time will tell. Forcier certainly will have an opportunity to rebound, but his play this last month has been pretty disappointing considering how he started.
BJ Daniels = RED SHIRT freshmen.
BJ Daniels is a redshirt freshman. He's had a year to learn the offense and get bigger, faster and stronger. DG will not look anything like Daniels does this year if he plays next year.
Daniels is a redshirt freshman. He didn't see the field at all last year, whereas Tate is starting as a true freshman in a much tougher conference so the comparison is off base.
Daniels obviously benefited from redshirting, just like Devin will.
My bad. I didn't realize he was a redshirt. It was an impressive performance, and I was really impressed since I thought he was a true freshman. I still wonder whether Forcier has the athleticism to really do what Richrod wants to do with his QB, but we'll see what he does next year.
He's also been between meh and lol for much of the year. Also lolstud.
How can a talent like Gardner redshirt? There is no way in the world a player with his ability is going to come in and sit for 3 years until he plays. If he redshirts, Tate will have had 2 years under his belt going into his 3rd when Devin is able to play. Tate will be the guy for the last 2 years because he will just be too far ahead for Gardner to catch up, especially with limited playing time as a back up under a veteran QB. I really don't think Michigan can keep him if he thinks we will redshirt him. There are a ton of top programs that he can go to and step in right away and play, and for many years at that. So everyone hoping that RR redshirts him, better rethink that idea.
There are a ton of top programs that he can go to and step in right away and play, and for many years at that.
Assuming DG comes in EE, I fully believe that RR gives him the opportunity to prove himself, with the understanding that if he is truly competitive, he will see the field in some way in his Freshman year.
However, what I see possibly happening is that DG comes in, gets reps in Spring practice, but realizes himself that he is significantly behind Tate. He then has to decide: do I redshirt, since it looks like I'm not going to start anyway, or burn the redshirt, and play as much as I can? This is a question I wouldn't know the answer to.
handed catch in the endzone at about the 1:30 mark. On another catch he must have been 3 ft in the air easily. His passing looks pretty accurate to me, granted its only 4v4 and no rush. Heres the link anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BAdmLPyVIo&feature=fvw
id really like tate to be good enough so that DG could redshirt. BUt if DG is truly the better QB then id rather have him play. I guess we'll have to trust rich rod's judgement. yes, the same RR judgement that started Sam McGuffie over Branon Minor last season.
Both Minor and Brown were injured during McGuffie's M glory days. Once healthy Minor was the man.
redshirted. Would give Devin time to be "Taterized" or coached up. Sounds like Devin's got a great future at Michigan, I hope Tate's health and play affords Devin the redshirt.
Just because he's a freak doesn't mean he won't redshirt. If he's good enough to play as a Frosh, it just means we get to use Denard in new and exciting ways.
This is what will probably happen:
Tate will remain the starter in 2010.
Denard will remain the backup in 2010 but will play some in the slot or at running back.
Gardner will redshirt in 2010.
Tate will continue to start in 2011.
Denard will switch positions to full-time receiver or running back for 2011.
Gardner will be a redshirt freshman backup quarterback in 2011.
I don't think that there is any question that he redshirts next year. There is always the possibility that his redshirt could be pulled if needed because of injury, or if he is just flat out more impressive in practice than Tate. He may even be more impressive than Tate athletically from day 1, but he won't have the mental part of the game down right away. This may come in 2010, or may not be there until 2011. Either way, his presence on the team should keep Tate hungry to keep his starting job all of next season. Having several options at QB cannot be a bad thing...