well that's just, like, your opinion, man
Devin Gardner to redshirt?
to Devin. Do you have a link?
That would be utterly fantastic if true. No-brainer.
Think about it: Trading the rest of this season of DG standing with a clipboard with a 2014 season of DG as a second year starter, 5th year senior quarterback.
Time pull the old Al Cervik move: "Ohhhhh! My arm! I think its broken!"
i think that kangaroo stole my ball
Oh, that is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. What, when you buy a hat like that I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh? It looks good on you though.
Keep in mind that medical redshirts are not guaranteed, and are subject to the discretion of the NCAA. So even if he doesn't take another snap this year, it does not necessarily mean we get him back in 2014.
That said, I believe Gardner has only played in 3 games this year, which should qualify him for a redshirt unless my understanding of the rules and/or mathematics is terrible (player must have played in 30% or less of the team's games and suffer from a medical hardship that would justify granting another year of eligibility).
that the NCAA changed the rule to one play = burned redshirt, not the 30% rule. I could be wrong, but that's what I think is correct.
30% applies to medical redshirts. One play = burned redshirt applies to normal ones.
thank you. I wasn't completely sure if I was right, but thanks for the clarification!
The general rule is one play = burned redshirt. There is an exception to the rule available to players who suffer an injury mid-season, in which case they are at the mercy of the NCAA for a medical redshirt.
If the medical redshirt rule were the same as the regular redshirt rule, there would be no medical redshirt.
EDIT: Beaten by pretty much everyone with a computer.
But some of this confusion may come from basketball which I believe allows some (I don't know the amount) playing time without losing the opportunity for a redshirt.
No, it's the same thing. If you play once, you've burned your redshirt unless you suffer a documented injury that kept you out of every game after the 30% mark.
It's 30% or less in games played and in the first half of the season.
So Devin can redshirt 2011
No I was thinking he could redshirt next year and still be a 5th year Senior with no medical redshirt involved
and I don't think of Tate leaving as anything other than a result of RichRod success.
Tate is starting QB material, and if he follows his self-interest, he'll transfer so he can play. I have no problem with players making football decisions in their best interest. (Pouting at the end of the first game--that did no one any good. I'm glad Tate got over it and likely matured some by going through it.)
Heck, even Jim Tressell tries to get his players that are early NFL draft entry prospects the best information available. Not because I believe he's such a great guy, but I think he is just recognizing the reality that the one's with a clear self-interest are going to leave anyway, but by developing credibility in that regard, he might keep a few Donovan Warrens around for another year.
We've got Denard, and we've got Devin. Plus RichRod will likely snag another stud QB next year or the year after. I'll cheer for Tate as long as he doesn't go to a team I dislike.
I'm wondering about somewhere like SDSU or similar. I do agree though that he gracefully transfers at the end of the season and it is an amicable parting.
this god damned Tate transfering thing is getting old. He won't be going anywhere due to the sheer likelihood that any qb in this system is going to take a huge pounding (see Forcier 2009; Robinson, 2010)...he'll get plenty of opportunities to play in the coming years.
would you rather have a third year Tate or a second year Gardner? Honestly, I would take a second year Gardner. His potential is greater, size and durability (hopefully) is better.
That being the case you have next year three year Denard, second year Devin, and moderate stud in the making freshman. Where does Tate come into this equation?
I know some of you may point to the Iowa game and Tate's comeback, and the few games he outright won for us as a freshman, and say Tate's the man. Tate is definately the man, but not in this system at this level over time. In my opinion...
The dude was what? 26 when he won the Heisman?
Pretty sure he played minor league baseball before going to FSU which is why he was older.
ya because he redshirted four times
This comment is awesome. Jabronis all around!
unfortunately the NCAA has changed the rules to prevent that. Your elgibility starts expiring at age 21 unless you redshirt. I think that the only exception is the guys that take leaves of absence from the university (like Mormon missions and military service). Playing minor league baseball doesn't count anymore.
In Division I only, if a student-athlete has participated as an individual or as a team representative in organized sports competition, that kind of participation during each 12-month period after his/her 21st birthday and prior to initial full-time collegiate enrollment will count as one year of varsity competition in that sport. Any participation in organized competition during time spent in the U.S. armed services will be excepted.
(In other words, Wienke needed to decide before he was 21 that he wasn't good enough at baseball before quitting and going to FSU. The oldest that a NCAA D1 player can be now is 25.)
That only applies if the prospect is playing organized sports. Though highly unlikely, a prospect could not enroll until he was 23 and still have four years as long as they were not playing another sport. Billy Sims comes to mind as IIRC he won the Heisman at 25 because he didn't enroll after HS as he was working to help support his family.
How new is this 25 year old rule because the oldest player in college football history was Tim Frisby. He was 39 when he played receiver for University of South Carolina.
I'm not so sure that quote applies to the Wienke-type situation because of this part of the quote:
that kind of participation during each 12-month period after his/her 21st birthday and prior to initial full-time collegiate enrollment will count as one year of varsity competition in that sport.
Bolded part is the key, at least as I read it. I could be reading that wrong, though...
I doubt they grant it. He played in 3 games where 4 is the threshold and on top of that they were nonconsecutive so the inference will be that he was available for more than 30% of the season. If the NCAA can't see through this they are pretty thick. It's worth a shot though.
It has nothing to do with being available; if you don't play, you don't play. The rule is 30% and you can't play in the second half of the season. It doesn't matter which games so long as they are in the first half of the season. Devin could play in the 1st, 2nd, and 6th games and still get a medical redshirt so long as the injury is in the first half of the season and he doesn't play another down. It would be pretty easy for UM to come up with an injury to Devin. Sprained ankle, pulled hammy/quad; any number of injuries that linger would affect a guys ability to play on Saturdays.
The real question is if UMs wants to try to "make up" an injury given the recent investigations.
You're right about the logistics, but it does require that the injury results in "incapacity to compete for the remainder of the playing season". A sprained ankle or pulled hammy isn't going to reach that threshold. Remember it's not the NCAA that will review Devin's medical hardship applications, it's the Big Ten.
That's interesting. I had no idea it was governed by individual conferences, which is what it sounds like you're saying. In that case, who does ND answer to for a medical redshirt?
ND players are reviewed by the Committee on Student-Athlete Reinstatement, which I'm pretty sure is NCAA run.
But if he continually reaggrivates that ankle at practice and that keeps him out of games, then yes, he'll get a medical for a sprained ankle.
It would still be up to the conference.
Yes, but it is unlikely they deny his claim. Whether he has a sprained ankle or a torn ACL, it has kept him from playing when Denard has come out of games. There's no denying that.
There is. If he has a sprained ankle, the Big Ten might infer that it was actually Tate that kept Devin off the field,.
I'm sure they'll petition for a medical redshirt, but I'm not sure the NCAA would grant one given the circumstances (him playing in various games, looking healthy out there, convenient timing, etc.). Personally, I thought it was a weird decision to play him early in the season just to prove a point to Tate or to give him a couple of minutes of game experience, since I much rather have a 4th year of a seasoned Gardner than the freshman vesion. Ah well.
IIRC, Herron had a very similar situation his freshman year. He played special teams for a few games, then did not play the last 6-7 games of the year. Everyone expected him to be a Soph. the next year, but the roster came out at RFr. He was granted a medical redshirt for whatever "injury" he had that kept him off the field the second half of the season
Also, I think B. Hawthorne had an "injury" the second half of last year too. He is a RFr. and played about 3-4 games on special teams last year.
You are right. I guess it just comes down to how the NCAA views the "injury" and if there is enough evidence provided to support the claim. Personally, if Devin has some legit injury (and you never know what happens in practice), then by all means given him the RS.
Hey "turf toe" is a bitch.
Say what you want about this coaching staff but playing him early to give him some time on the field was a great move. FWIW I'd be willing to bet a penny that this happens on a regular basis.
So his injury is turf toe? I haven't seen anything about this, so I'm just curious what this mystery injury is that everyone else seems to know about.
Plus, my confusion hasn't been helped by the fact that quotation marks seem to permeate the "thread."
Sorry I should have stated I don't know what his injury is. They showed him on Inside Michigan Football throwing.
for not finishing the marathon?
Outstanding reference to "The League." Well played, Mr. Geaux Blue. Well played indeed.
Before we speculate, can we possibly substantiate the injury?? Where is this coming from?
It's coming from the "get Inside the Fort" on Rivals. The writer talks about it and states he expects the NCAA to grant it because of his limited playing time. www.thewolverine.com
Does anyone know if the NCAA requires proof of injury, such as a physical from a doctor appointed by them, or do they just take the word of the training staff?
has been documented, since his last time on the field, so I am thinking that is all the NCAA needs.
As stated at the bottom, by a fellow blogger. I got my news from rivals "Inside the Fort". I used quotations because I thought that it was very convenient for him to have an "injury" (there see what I did there).
That Gardner was still tossing passes on the sideline after halftime last week...though I also noticed when Denard got hurt Tate was the only one throwing. Devin was several rows deep on the sideline with his helmet off at that time at least.
It's not like he has to be in a wheelchair. He just can't play after week 4 and has to have some kind of documented injury.
can't play after week 6 and in less than 4 games.
now that you're over 10,000 points
well played, sir.
I guess maybe Rich knows more then we do.
This would be a dream come true. Please Please PLEASE REDSHIRT!!
... Can I sacrifice a newborn to the NCAA to make this happen?
you need a virgin. Should have no problem finding one of them on a college campus, no?
Just stop by Martha Cook
... loopholes when they work for us.
In 2014 when Devin has 2 National Titles, a Heisman and his degree it will be hard to justify coming back.
My thoughts are with Devin as he tries to bounce back from this setback. Perhaps going through this trying ordeal may yet pay dividends down the road.
I hope he recovers from the "debilitating" tendinitis he got from tweaking his throwing motion. I hope the NCAA is loose with its definition of "debilitiating," though.
requirements are on p 139-140
does Magnus think it was ok to play him in the first couple games now?
If you believe that he actually suffered an injury worthy of keeping him out for the remainder of the season, then I have a lovely piece of real estate that you might be interested in....
Ooh! Real estate you say!? I've been looking for some land in Florida!
If only you had the Golden Gate Bridge up for sale...
Maybe it is shaped like a horse shoe and is filled with maniacal truck drivers.
I don't believe that at all, but that's not the point. Whether he has a legitimate injury or not, as long as he gets his redshirt that's all that really matters. Plus, he even has a little bit of actual game experience now, which is obviously an added bonus.
Rich is in on top of things. Just like Drew Sharp and Lynn Henning keep telling us.
and the medical redshirt was refused.
differs from mine.
May need some work.
That would be funny? I must be losing my sense of humor.
So let me get this right, if he's granted a medical redshirt, as a 5th Year Senior our backfield would be Devin and TacoPants. Truly epic!
If the NCAA needs witnesses to attest to the severity of his injury I will happily volunteer. I saw him, just last Saturday as a matter of fact, and he looked like he was in a lot of pain.
Granted the view from Section 5 was a bit far away but I'm pretty sure I saw him wince a time or two.
When do they need me?
but I am not sure we should be aspiring to be a program that lies - there are enough Saban-type coaches in the world and the programs that celebrate them. We are not that. We are better - or at least we should aspire to be. If Devin actually has an injury - then fine - but if it is being made-up to extend his playing time then - well - we might win a few more in Devin's rSr season - but at the cost of losing a bit of integrity at the core of the program.
I hope there actually is a minor injury that allows a medical redshirt but heals in the offseason. I am disappointed that we are actually celebrating the *wink* Devin has an "injury" *wink* idea.
I can see it being a loss of integrity issue, however I'm willing to bet that any guy that gets injured early in the season, no matter the severity, has a medical redshirt application filled out. The worst that could happen is the NCAA turns it down.
It's not like there is some giant advantage being gained by doing this.
You mean there's no giant advantage beyond the giant advantage of potentially having a highly rated, 6'4", presumably 220 lb. QB gaining a fifth year of eligiblity?
Yeah, I totally agree. No advantage whatsoever...
I am not sure we should be aspiring to be a program that lies - there are enough Saban-type coaches in the world and the programs that celebrate them. We are not that. We are better - or at least we should aspire to be.
Dude, everyone does this. Lloyd got guys to "redshirt" on a broken finger and sprained ankle.
The weight of the splint slows down your follow through, costing you a good 10-15 yards on a kick. And don't get me started on trying to catch a pass with a bunion.
then I don't have a problem with a medical redshirt. But if UM is trying to squeeze through a loophole, then I don't feel so good about this. If OSU or MSU or Saban were trying to pull something, we would be all over them....
But saban DOES pull this stuff. Not that its right.
Would be awesome if that happened because I dont see him getting alot of playing time w/ 2 QB's ahead of him. I didnt like how he was even playing this year because hes stuck behind two sophomores, and was hoping that he wasnt thinking about transferring.
But hey, if it's in the rules, it's in the rules. And everyone can stop whining about the snaps the first couple of games.
A couple quotes from Rivals about Gardner's "injury"
The freshman QB did see some early action, but he's since developed a back ailment that could impact his ability to get any more playing time.
U-M head coach Rich Rodriguez said Gardner's back problems kind of come and go.
A "back ailment" that "kind of comes and goes."
Why don't you just continue crying because RR likely outsmarted what you were taking up as your personal crusade? If, in your words, the snaps were "meaningless" then why does this bother you, since clearly ANY QB could have played those meaningless snaps and thus who cares about the redshirt?
Oh wait, RR just destroyed your fantasy that you're smarter than the coaches. Proceed as you were.
a) This proves my point. My point was that it would be stupid to lose Devin's freshman year redshirt to meaningless snaps. Even the coaches realize that he should be redshirting this year.
b) The injury is probably complete and total BS. If the medical redshirt actually gets approved by the NCAA, then they should consider themselves lucky for getting away with it.
A) Yet, if the rumors that Tate was suspended the first game are true, then props to the coaches for sticking to their guns on that.
B) Definitely. It will get approved.
First of all, I can't believe some of you are actually concerned and think that he really was so badly injured that he'll have to miss the rest of the year.
This is SOP in college football... you try out a guy that you think may contribute his freshman year, and if he's not quite "there" or there's another backup that can do his job, the freshman in question conveniently gets "injured" for the rest of the season.
And it's granted almost everytime because all the NCAA requires is a doctor to sign a document saying that the player is injured... no one is going to come and physically check Gardner to see if he's injured, and no one will care that he was taking practice snaps two weeks ago. Hell, Devin will probably still be practicing at 100% for the rest of the year.
For another example of this, see Nick Hill at MSU... he too played early but after the emergence of Le'Veon Bell, Hill got "injured" and will redshirt.