Devin Gardner for QB?
Offense isnt doing anything anyway. Might as well put him in
Unless we can learn to have a decent running game (by RB's vs. QB's), we can't expect a decent passing game. It's too simple for defenses to be freed up to cheat for maximum pass coverage, while still being able to quickly come in for run support since we also primarily use delayed runs.
We need to run more "north and south" and should be punding away with Thomas Rawls instead of Toussaint & Smith who are now both dancing while looking for seams instead of running in anticipation of the whole that is supposed to be being opened for them. I believe Rawls runs hard and would help wear down the defense even when he doesn't get big yardage.
Is he dinged up or something? What a waste to not have used him to help take pressure off the kid (Bellomy).
Gardner at WR has made no difference and Bellomy isn't ready as a substitute for Denard. Does anyone think a properly prepared Gardner would not have given us a better chance to win?
Wow this is horrible. We have a running QB, why is our back-up not ready to play?
I'm sure he has not practiced as much as one would want, but at this point he can't possibly be worse. At least he is a strong runner.
Bellomy has been practicing just as much as denard this season...
Practicing what? You'd be hard pressed to convince a lot of people that he's even picked up a football since high school.
He may have been practicing the same number of weeks, but I seriously doubt he has had anywhere near the same number of repititions. And certainly not the game experience, nor the total experience (as he is a RS Fr)
On the other hand, there is little doubt that all practice aside, Bellomy has nowhere near the gifts that Denard does.
He's talking about Gardner, not Bellomy.
Michigan hasn't made signifigant strides coaching up a QB since Brady.
Hoke needs to take a long hard look at his coaching staff this year. Yea there are some talent issues still but the offense is a coaching problem.
Somebody did a pretty good job coaching up Denard going into 2010.
Yeah...they gave him really simple plays that didn't work against good defenses.
Michigan hasn't made signifigant strides coaching up a QB since Brady.
Does the name John Navarre ring a bell?
You're right, Michigan has not made signifigant strides coaching up a QB since John Navarre. You're still talking about 10 years and 5 starting QB's
are you a sparty?
What about Mallett? He transferred to Ark and lit it up? You are saying that he was coached up from Ark in 2 months? You are a mess. Why do you even bother to post here. Go home to the RCMB.
He looked like he had slep through a few practices. Hope he gets better, but there is no question Gardner should have been put in.
This one is going to stick with Brady for a long time
No politics on MGoBlog!!!!!1
Is dead. He can't run.
But he can still pass better than Bellomy.
As difficult as it is to comprehend, it seems that Kennedy is way behind RB. I, for one, would have liked to at least seen him in the last series. Perpertuating bad experiences for RB did nothing to help develop him.
Let's look on the bright side: Shane Morris won't de-commit for lack of playing opportunity.
He would at least provide the running threat.
I just... I just don't know anymore, man.
we're dead in the water unless they can get denard back in to run veers with him going left.
Are they going to call better plays with Devin in than they have with Denard or Russ?
At least Gardner has the athleticism to improvise...
Silly me, I didn't realize that some improv will totally fix what's wrong with this offense.
I don't see the logic in having Devin on the field if there's no one to get him the ball.
So you put him on the field at QB, and have him give/throw the ball to who? Damned if you do, and damned if you don't I guess.
Maybe the Devin could draw the plays up on the ground in the huddle. "You do a button hook in front of the red car, and you run a stop-and-go right at the street light."
The rest of the season is a different story if DRob has more than a one-game boo boo.
This is yet another reason why I wanted Michigan to take a QB in 2012. Denard's hurt, Gardner's at WR, and Bellomy is apparently our only option right now... Not that a true freshman QB would necessarily be more ready than Bellomy, but this is exactly why you take a QB in every class.
Was there any plausible (i.e., not a total reach of an offer) guy out there for us to get last class? If we're talking about total sleeper recruits, I'm not sure they would have been any better.
The killer for us was Stonum screwing up once again. If he were still here, he'd be our go-to receiver and Gardner would have remained at QB.
Tyler O'Connor, for one...
O'Connor hasn't seen the field for MSU this season, despite their own set of QB issues. I can't imagine he'd have been the answer on a night game in Lincoln his true freshman season.
It's not the 2012 QB recruiting class (or lack of one) that is hurting us now, it's the 2008-11 classes. Excluding Gardner, we have a grand total of two players currently at QB from those classes. Tate Forcier flunking out of school really hurt.
the OL & non-Burbridge WRs are not doing Maxwell any favors. Not to say he is the best QB inthe B1G, but I have a feeling any QB would look bad in that offense.
People keep saying this about MSU's WRs, but I've watched their last two games and they looked pretty good to me. Did they have any drops against us?
Against us, of course not.
I caught about 10 minutes of their game yesterday and saw 3 drops.
Word from MSU practices is that if Maxwell gets hurt O'Connor is nowhere near ready to replace Maxwell, let alone step into Michigan's hybrid WCO-Spread.
Having him on the roster would be a nice security blanket for 2015, but wouldn't do much to improve the current situation.
Until something shows me I'm dead wrong, I'm sticking by the assertion that the coaches knew Gardner as a WR was a big gamble on Denard not getting hurt early in an important game leaving significant Bellomy time, and to move Gardner back to QB the following week if the injury is extended.
Given Gardner has not been the receiving threat we hoped (too many drops, not picking up the routes, indifferent blocker) despite the talent, I think we're late enough in the season now to audible out of that, go back to preparing Devin to take over for Denard, and hope Darboh has come far enough along to replace that production.
I really don't get why Jeremy Jackson is getting so much PT. I haven't yet seen him make a play that pretty much any WR should make. It's scaring the sh-- out of me that he's involved in so many plays and the target of so many 3rd downs because of what it says about Darboh. I don't see what Jackson can provide on any given play that you can't get by splitting Funchess out wide.
MN's true freshman qb Phil Nelson looked pretty good today. Think we probably could have had him. I agree that not taking a qb in 2012 was a colossal failure and showed some pretty horrible judgement of talent in terms of Bellamy. I hope to god someone can throw this in my face down the road but I don't think more experience is going to fix an incredibly weak arm. Maybe that is why hoke was talking about the weight he had put on or whatever. Next year has the potential to be a total offensive disaster, see msu 2012.
He can't be worse. I don't get it.
Actually, he very easily can. If he has not been practicing at QB, when was the last time he had to read a defense? Was he in for meetings about the Nebraska blitz keys etc?
Athleticism without preparation does not get you very far at this level. Making him the backup for next week and on is a different debate. Tonight- we are stuck with what we are stuck with.
3/16 passing, 38 yards, 3 interceptions, 0 yards rushing
How could he honestly be worse? Seriously? Give the ball to the other team faster...?
Well, just doing some rough math, he could have thrown 3 fewer completions, 13 more interceptions, and for 38 less yards....
Seriously, there is no coach that is going to put a player in to play a position they have not practiced at. They simply are not going to do it.
This is the cost of moving Gardner to WR. Personally, I am willing to pay that cost, because even if DG is better than Bellomy at QB, I don't think we were going to win this game with anyone but Denard at QB, and there are games that we will win with DG at WR.
But, I can understand those who are pissed at the coaches moving DG from QB. I just disagree.
They could have run the ball more. We looked like an airraid offense.
so does your point total.
Prime example of Trolling and you get up voted for it.... Mod or not that's ridiculous
of letting him know that this comment was the reason he lost points, and to warm others that similar comments will not be tolerated.
Besides, no one dares tag me for trolling. I have grown far too powerful to be questioned.
You must be sparty because, we at Michigan, have a sense of humor. We are a family and occasionally we tease each other.
I dont understand why non-Michigan fans want to come on our board and start trouble.
Bellomy was terrible, but those stats belong to the receivers as much as him. Just terrible how our veteran receivers did nothing to help the RS freshman out.
That's kind of true but Bellamy has to learn to put some touch on the ball. He was throwing innacurate 3 yard passes with as much arm as you put on a 20 yard strike. Some of the catches should have been made either way. If you are playing WR at a major college and the ball hits you in the hands you should make the catch no matter how hard it was thrown.... to a certain pont anyways.
This this this. What convinced people last year he was a great QB? Added in that he hasn't been taking snaps at QB all year....it wouldn't do anything
We clearly weren't going to move the ball with Bellomy. That's a fact. If you aren't going to move the ball with Bellomy, you have nothing to lose no matter who you try at QB.
Yeah great idea. Let's play a kid who's been practicing another position all fucking year a shot at QB. Why haven't they replaced Borges with you yet?
Borges is calling crap plays I agree.. But Gardner is more athletic.. Putting gallon in right now as a running QB is better than Bellomy.. It's just cruel to keep an inexperienced QB who obviously cannot handle the pressure in the game right now.. It's WRONG.. Desperate situtuations require desperate measures..
I wasn't criticizing Borges I was being sarcastic. Also you're wrong. When have you ever seen Gardner look anything but mediocre? Why do you think some athleticism (which Bellomy also has some in case you didn't know) is going to all of a sudden make Gardner some all world QB? And worse, who the hell do you run out at WR in that case? We're short enough on talent there too
You're right that Gardner has looked medicore. But if Bellomy were looking "mediocre" we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.
I didn't believe it, but Shane Morris will start from day 1.
Most likely. But the fact that we don't have anyone to work with Morris on mechanics and various other things a QB needs to improve on, or an OC that seemingly can't call plays his players can execute scares the crap out of me.
What plays can Bellomy execute? I keep asking this question, and nobody can answer me. You just say vague things like this, as if there's a plethora of awesome Russell Bellomy plays that Borges is just ignoring for the hell of it.
If Bellomy can't do anything -- not even anything simple -- then why is he the backup QB? Every single player on this offense has gotten worse since the coaching change. That's on somebody, and it ain't the players.
You were more sensible when you just talked about burgers all the time.
There were some bad calls, like the option in the redzone, but there were plenty of passing plays called, some of which were properly blocked, and Bellomy didn't execute. That's not to rag on the kid, but sometimes play-calls are not a pancea. Sometimes players are just not very good, and that's what we had at QB.
Al Borges is also the QB coach, where Bellomy is under the system for over a year.
He can float a pass for a 12 yard gain...
He's pretty good at running the option with VSmith on third and ten.
It's so hard for a true freshman to start, but after watching Bellomy tonight Shane has a great shot.
Unless Gardner has regressed to an epic degree I do not understand it. Putting Bellomy out there for additional series in this game, at this point, is an act of cruelty.
Dont put all your eggs in one basket.
Gardner hasn't practiced, but more importantly he hasn't really looked good when he has played. He's just not that sharp of a passer. A bit more athletic, maybe, but we all know that's not going to cut it.
This is like the Drew Henson injury. Just not much you can do about it now.
This. Gardner hasn't ever looked better than Bellomy, and now he hasn't been taking many practice reps either. Sometimes there's just not a good answer, guys.
Bionic hand replacement at halftime.
ever looked better then 3-16 39 yard 0 tds and 3 ints then you should stop commenting on football
He has looked better than that, but when he did, he was practing/playing QB full-time. Asking a guy who hasn't played the position for at least a couple of months to come in in the middle of a game and run the offense is pretty dicey.
I do think we should start giving him some practice reps at QB from here on out, though.
I would love to see Rawls and some smash mouth football.
Gardner can run the spread way more effectively than whatever we are calling this current offense. Al time to adapt on the fly, swallow your pride and make the switch.
so i think my other computer crashed.... any suggestions
you should recruit a computer every year.
Lets try Northfleet at RB. The kids gives you the feeling that he can take it to the house everytime he touches the ball.
Why the hell not?
This kid is not ready for Prime Time.
Does anybody know the story of Hopkins? I don't recall seeing Hopkins lately.
Straight, warm bourbon for the rest of the night
Does anybody know the story of Hopkins? I don't recall seeing Hopkins lately.
He was the recipient of that personal foul.
Terrible throws but even worse play calling by Borges. Giving us zero chance to be successful. Might as well just take three knees and punt. Fuck.
Has to be better than this...
What play can Bellomy run effectively? Huh?
You're the offensive coordinator. If you can't find a handful of simple plays for your players to excute, you've got no business being an OC. And if Bellomy can't excute a single simple play, then why is he even dressing for the games?
He did call some simple plays. They didn't work. Or did you miss those passes that Bellomy airmailed and/or threw into the ground? And he's dressing because he's apparently the #2 or #3 quarterback on the roster, but the lack of QBs on the roster isn't Borges's fault.
If Bellomy is good enough to be the #2 QB so we can move Gardner to WR, and Bellomy has had two years under the tutalage of Borges, then it is Al' fault that he hasn't developed to the point that he can't do anything. Where's the accountability? You can't just keep saying "we didn't execute." Its your job as coaches to make sure they are in positions to execute.
You're right. It's totally Al Borges's fault that a redshirt freshman QB can't perform against the #10 pass defense in the country.
Not trying to be snarky but if you're the OC and you know you're putting in a completely green QB against the #10 pass defense in the country, don't you call plays that take that into account (and I say this knowing that our running game has been mostly Denard)?
What plays would those be?
So what you're saying is we have an offensive coordinator and an offense with no hope.
and the O-line isn't dominating the line of scrimmage, and the running backs aren't 1st round picks, there aren't very many plays that work well.
This is just ridiculous. Since his second year with the program, Denard has been the center-piece of the offense. Everytime he has been hurt since then, the offense has stunk, whether it was RR or Borges calling the plays.
well thats true after tate left anyways
Well he's also the QB coach, and " The expectation is for the position".
Bellomy is in the system for over a year.
And i guess it's pretty clear from 2010 that you always need a backup plan in case Denard goes out.
so no, it's not totally his fault. But I do believe the performance tonight is worrying in terms of QB development by Borges.
Just curious what everyone here thinks: will it be better if Borges can hire a QB coach so he can focus on OC duties?
Who's fault is it then? Who failed to take a qb in the last recruiting cycle, and moved the only other viable option to wr?
Mr. Brady Hoke.
When everyone and their mom know they are coming in with a blitz maybe a long developing play isn't the best idea.
I guess he should have called a slant or throwback screen, since those have worked so well...
Throwback screens didn't work in the first qtr with denard why think they'd work now. Sniffed out like a jittery drug mule. It says a lot when our most successful throwback screen was the one gallon dropped
You can criticize his playcalling in the first half, but what could he have called in the second half that might have worked? We couldn't run or pass.
and all that. I get it. But he is the primary backup and he's playing like ass with no improvement in sight. Totally unprepared. Inexcusable. Play Gardner.
The fact that our QB have all shown zero improvement under Hoke/Borges makes me concerned about the future of Shane Morris. Hoke needs to find his Mattison on offense.
I have been pissed at Hoke. Gardner can at least run the ball, and he certainly couldn't pass worse than Bellamy. I never thought I would say this about a Hoke coached team but they gave up (not the players but the coaches).
I am really fucking pissed, this brings me back to the old Lloyd ball play to lose shit.
then yes the coaches are chalking this one up. Borges needs to go down to the sideline and start coaching this kid up!
You don't just go in and start throwing the ball around, you have to know the playbook- and I am not at all sure that Gardner can run the offense (even a stripped down offense) if he has not been practicing at QB for most or all of the season.
It has nothing to do with athleticism and all to do with preparation- you need at least some minimal prep to play QB. Having him play this week was simply not a realistic option.
Now, if you want to be pissed at Hoke for moving him to WR this year, that is a legit position, but I had not heard many complaints from folks thus far- most felt it was best to get him on the field as much as possible.
He's worse than Roundtree and Gallon. Why keep him as a WR?
Well, at the beginning of the season, I was in favor of Gardner going to WR. I thought the depth there was really lacking. He is certainly not a polished receiver, but other than Funchess, he is really the only tall receiver that we have.
That being said, there is no doubt that Bellomy's performance tonight was really disturbing.
With the failure of Bellomy and the development of the WR corps, it may be time for the coaches to re-evaluate the positioning of Gardner.
But, any decision like that can only reasonably be made seeing him in practice. Fortunately, we have a coaching staff that I trust to make the correct decision-- and that is what it really comes down to-- do we trust the coaches? Because no one here really knows what is going on in practice, so we really can not know what is best for the team.
Yep, yep, and yep. And may I add, I pray that Denard is back next week.
Because in two years you'll have a gifted receiver with two years experience playing the position, instead of a qb buried on the depth chart?
It's not really surprising Gardner's struggled at a position he had never played before spring practice. And it's pretty obvious he's got some talent, as yet undeveloped.
I might be wrong, but let's revisit this in 2014.
He is a senior next year. And I see no reasonble chance he gets a medical redshirt. If he was going to get it, he'd have been notified (like many others in the conference have in a timely manner).
Because Gardner didn't play QB for 4 years in high school and under RR and Brady Hoke, like ever...at all. I'm sure he forgot everything....
I am pretty sure his HS playbook bears as much resemblance to the Michigan playbook as 10th grade algebra does to college level calculus. And yes, you do forget things, or at least your reactions are slowed and so the timing of the play fails. And I am sure the game planning changes week to week as the plan changes based on the team they are playing.
So yes, I stand by my original statement.
Well I've seen Gardner at QB the last few years and atleast Bellamy can say he's a RS freshman. The only thing Gardners athletic ability has done for his QBing skills is a few very funny Yackaty sacks videos.
Some of this has to be on Bellamy. When it's your time in the spot light you have to be ready. practice like you're going play every week.
But hasn't Hoke stated in pressers that Gardner is still getting the same amount of reps as Bellomy in practice?
I was (and am) not aware of that. That would certainly change my responses. But I had not heard that. Do you have a source?
and where is the North/South Man-Ball with Rawls? How do you not at least bitch at the refs, demand a review, and use time-outs before the half in attempts to coach and calm down your young QB?
Why DG wasn't put in earlier. We were only down 16-9
I dunno man. I dunno.
If it's just a nerve issue, Denard should be fine and be back next week, but they should have given Bellomy more minutes early on especially in the UMass game. If I remember correctly, Michigan was up by like 50 points before Bellomy came in and they didn't even let him throw the ball. doh!
I will go apeshit on anyone dogging Denard. I think it's pretty obvious how good he is, huh?
Agreed. Those people are idiots.
Better play calling but yes we should have given him more mop up time early this year.
of mop up time against Illinois. It wasn't good.
is it makes me really depressed about UM's offense next year. I knew there'd be a drop off without Denard but it's looking pretty bleak right now.
Ready or not, it's the Shane Morris show next year.
I seriously don't get it. They were only down 16-9. You basically said to your defense that you give up and you're just trying to give bellomy experience by about the 5th time you brought him back in. For fucking what?
Is there a conspiracy going on with DG or something? Are the coaches afraid he'll end up being better than Denard and face pressure to start DG over Denard? No, I know this is not the case but I just with we knew.
Same conspiracy that keeps Rawls on the bench
Let's focus on what is important: That Denard plays next week. They were favored. Yes, Michigan would have won with Denard. But if he is ok, all is not lost. If he cannot go...Basketball season starts in a few days.
Maybe he's finally settling down and starting to thrown with confidence.
Edit: Nope still sucks!
Take it what is a ill prepared backup qb that was way to excited and had no ability or helop getting his cofidence up
failed miserably this game and set up Bellomy for failure. Devin Gardner is not a good receiver and had all the talent at QB to potentially be one of the great ones. This loss was devastating and the lack of coaching to put us in a position to even compete is concerning.
He has an off season to win the job.
He's about as good as Roundtree. No NFL.
I realize Gardner is in his first year at wr but he hasn't shown me anything that makes me thing he's going to be anything special.
So you think there was no reaosn to move Gardner? I mean he was pretty awsome when he came in when Denard waas hurt last year wasn't he? Of course he was and I never saw calls for Bellomey to put in then either. I have no idea how this ended up here
"I mean he was pretty awsome when he came in when Denard waas hurt last year wasn't he?"
Your son had really great recruiting rankings. But that talent has not shone on the football field.
We MUST be talking about different Devin Gardners. You're right he's not a good receiver, he runs lazy routes and doesn't go for the ball. As for the QBing part I remember him playing QB the last 2 years with the exception of 1 long pass in the spring and a few hilariously bad backwards running videos it was forgetable.
Not taking a QB last year looks alot worse tho. I can't see Shane Morris starting next year, maybe we can get one to transfer from the ACC like Wisconsin
I think I'd feel better if we gave Gibbons a chance at QB! Bellomy looks like he's never seen a football.
The problem is that he should still be buried on the bench...
With Shane no2 and Gardner the presumable no3. This is why I'm scared
I am shocked Bellamy was the 35th ranked QB. Really? If so there must be a tremendous drop off btw 25 and 35.
Navarre is happy noe?
My brother (who is at the game right now) is one of the leading "Denard is NOT a QB" idiots. I hope he enjoyed seeing what our offense looked like without him.
Seriously, no TDs against MSU or UNL. What do you want!? Borges Appologists?
Bellomy is playing like a Purdue commit should play!!! Makes no sense 18.8 comp pct 38 yds and 3 picks but yet we have a 5* quarterback playing wideout!!
Could not agree with you more
Does Phil Coke have any eligibility left?
take Bauserman with Bollman calling plays at this point.
You guys act like this team wasnt horrid for 3 years before coming outta nowhere last year, it does take time to go from the cellar to the attic. Bellomy will be better prepared next week.
Think he'll have that next week too?
honestly, I am a million percent confident Gardner could do just as bad. At least, Devin can run with the ball and it's not like he was doing shit as a receiver anyway.
Jack Kennedy should've had a shot. JDK and Rey, FTW!
Borges and company quit and left the defense is a bind. Everybody on this site wanted to see Bellomy as the back up and Devin Gardner suck as a QB based on a few plays he ran. He never really had a chance to show anybody what he really can do. IJS.
Borges and company quit and left the defense is a bind. Everybody on this site wanted to see Bellomy as the back up and Devin Gardner suck as a QB based on a few plays he ran. He never really had a chance to show anybody what he really can do. IJS.
Gardner didn't suck. He had good moments and bad moments in very limited duty.
Gardner should have been put in. Borges should have run zone read with Gardner as our backup plan. WE can NOT run a pro style with or without Denard at this point in the Hoke era.. This one is on Borges.
Hoke is the HC and has the final say on everything that takes place with this team.
Knows 1 side of game and trusts coordinator on other side.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
"Trusts defensive coordinator" is not one of my prominent memories of those years, especially the first one.
Knows 1 side of game and trusts coordinator on other side.
If RR had actually followed this dictum, he'd still be our coach.
UM went two straight games without scoring a TD??
Last time Michigan went without a touchdown at all before this year was 2007 against OSU, and then against OSU again in 2002.
As for two in a row, you'd have to go back to 1962, when we got shut out three games in a row.
Nearly this whole place was following the fearless leader in thinking that moving DG to WR was a great idea, "swing for the fences!" Now everybody is pissed that the guy who should be a 3rd string QB is really bad and had to play because the 2nd string guy is at WR. And there are some people who seem to think that the 3rd string QB is totally good but was getting bad play calls, because for a fan it is always, always, the coaches and not the players who are fault.
Amen brother. I was giggling to self at all the "next Calvin Johnson" types for Devin due to his size. Again if all it took was being 6'4 and 215 lbs to be a WR - every WR would be that size.
Devin is ok at WR and probably gives him a better chance at the next level than QB. He has shown little at QB and the coaches would not be flipping him out to that position if they thought he was the answer for 2013.
Frankly I am surprised at his role this year - I thought he'd be a hybrid WR/QB not a full time WR. I would have liked to see him in more of the sets last year when both he and DRob were on field at same time - you can do a lot of trick plays in that formation and more importantly keep the defense thinking. The pure WR thing tells me the coaches really have zero plans for him at QB this year or next.
This game showed some serious incompetence on our coaching staff for the 1st time IMO
They obviosly lied about having Garder still take some reps at qb in practice. Bellomy doesn't even have the armstrength to make basic throws...very disappointing
Perhaps now Hoke will not put Dennard on the kick return team Since he has seen what happens when he gets a "boo-boo". Denard basically banged his ulnar nerve, so he should be good for next week. Kevin Chung will see to it
Michigan doesn't have any WR or a RB. No matter who you put in it won't matter if you can't throw or run.
You know you guys are right where is the good burnin' couch? These coaches don't know what they are doing we should never had fired RR he beat USC tonight.
if brady hadn't have been forced to boot stonum, devin would have remained the backup qb. my question for the board is- has his contribution at wide receiver been sufficient to justify not having a suitable backup for a running qb?
I had no issue with moving Devin to WR as he had shown very little in his mop up opportunities the past few years. I did not feel he would be a great WR as some did on the blog as they salivated over his measurables. If just being 6'4" and 215 lbs made you a great WR every tall thin dude would be a prime WR. Just as every 6'8 guy in the country would play basketball.
So I think we are sort of screwed - Devin has not practiced much at QB, and when he was practicing the past few years I believe he showed little outside of athleticism. Bellomy has no arm strength as shown by the last INT. WRs dropped a few passes but still he seemed overwhelmed. We just have to pray Robinson came come back next week.
...that Gardner has been taken out of the QB rotation. You'd have to be an idiot to not go to a better option if we had one. Borges is not an idiot...the man must know thousands of variations on offense, and yet...
I just don't know...not ripping Russ, but he's clearly not ready yet. And the last 2 games have had such uninspired and predictable playcalling.
I hope everything is OK for Al in his personal life.
Get off Borges dick.3 of 8 games without a TD with Denard running the offense.Borges is with his what,8th school.He's not a genius,he's a journeyman. May soon be looking for another gig.If he can't score td's with denard, good luck with Bellomy.
It was obvious Bellomy was out of his league. Gardner without snaps in practice is better than what we just witnessed. Absolutely ridiculous.
Is it Bellomy? Is it Borges? Is it the lack of Denard?
BTW Arizona beat USC; Rich Rodriguez is happy.
This offense sucks and will continue to suck next year too with the plays Borges run.
The REAL question is, "are YOU going to continue to suck?"
That's all part of switching systems. We were extremely fortunate that RR didn't pull an LC on the way out, and extremely fortunate that Denard wanted a degree from the University of Michigan more than he wanted a Heisman. Unfortunately, we were not fortunate enough to watch Denard get a full season of good health.
I'll say the same thing I said when RR struggled: shit happens, and don't judge the coaching staff until they have their own fifth-year seniors. Besides, does anyone really think that Hoke and Borges aren't going to stay up all night trying to figure out their options here?
See you go sparty in a thread and the trolls come calling. Go to sleep and lets reconviene tomorrow when we are much more retospective and coherent.
Yeah its a dialect called drunkard, do you disagree with the sentament of the post, or just taking potshots on the only thing you can? Your response also proves my point, thank you.
Way to go Irish.
What I love is how people in here think that the decisions are so simple, so obvious, and that the men that spend their lives making these decisions are IDIOTS when they don't do what THEY believe is the best thing to do in any given situation.
The answer is obvious. If Hoke and Borges thought that Gardner gave Michigan a better chance of winning the game, we would have seen Gardner at QB. They didn't feel that way, so we didn't see Gardner. Simple. Why is that so hard to understand?
I disagree. I think they just didn't give Gardner enough reps as a QB. He wasn't prepared to take over because they'd been running him at wr. Gardner was so-so last year, but worlds more talented than Bellamy.
That they were wrong in thinking Bellomy could manage the game. I've been hearing that Gardner didn't play because he hasn't seen QB snaps in some time. If true, how does a logical find not have a problem with that decision from the coaching staff? Many of us wanted to see Devin move to WR, myself included. I don't think any of us expected that move to mean Devin would not even be an option at QB if things turned ugly.
Everyone ripping on Bellomy, this would happen to almost every school in the country! Do you not remember what happened 2 weeks ago against Illinois?! Nebraska's defense totally changed when Denard went out. The kid was understandably overwhelmed! Wouldn't it have been the same if Martinez went out?! Imagine you're a 19 year old not expecting to play and all of sudden you get thrown to the wolves on the road in a night game with the Division title on the line. Cut the kid some slack!
Michigan has failed to score a touchdown in a game 6 times. 3 games from 2000-2011, and 3 times this season. We've turned a once-in-a-graduating-class event into a once-every-few-games event.
That's a crazy stat.
Conference record takes precedence over head to head right? Means we have to root for sparty next week.
I would assume in a two way tie, head to head matchup is the first tie-breaker.
So bad he's gone six quarters without scoring a touchdown with Denard Robinson. That's hard to do.
DG at QB is not just a theory. He came in a couple of times last year and looked OK, not great, but OK. He did not look intimidated or overwhelmed. And you could not just blitz him every play.
Again, do you REALLY think that if Hoke and Borges thought that DG gave Michigan a better chance to win that they WOULDN'T have put him in? If you believe that, there is no talking to you, because you're delusional.
Agreed and well said.
We all forget that we are working with imperfect information. We don't see practice, we don't talk with the players, we don't know anything other than the games we see on TV.
We debate the strategies of the coaches because it is amusing and they are human, so their decisions can be questioned.
What really can not be questioned is their motives- they clearly are in this to get a victory for Michigan. So I think it is pretty clear that they felt that at the present time, Gardner was not the better option at QB (perhaps because he has not practiced there or whatever...)
Of course, fair points have been raised about whether DG should have been in a position to have been the backup, or whether more effort should have been made to recruit scholarship QBs...
I think they thought RB looked better in practice, but an actual game situation under duress is a different animal. DG has been able to handle actual game situations.
They have their eyes on the future, so they don't want to kill RB's confidence and they stuck with him.
I'm trying to remember when Gardner was in a similar situation to Bellomy today--not mopping up or coming in for one play, but trying to run the full offense with the starters on the field and the game in doubt.
And what I'm coming up with is the MSU series after Marcus Rush put Denard out. Successful long pass, then a pass thrown from beyond the LOS, then two sacks including not getting rid of the ball on 4th and 21.
And then the third quarter series against Iowa that ended in a sack and an intentional grounding penalty.
It wasn't pretty, not that there was any reason to expect it to be. More than half of the passing plays resulted in sacks. It really wasn't much better than today, it just never lasted as long.
Gardner's most successful stint at QB was in the 2011 Illinois game, when he came off the bench and directed the offense on our last few drives. He threw a TD pass on 3rd and long that pretty much clinched the game.
I can understand why he didn't play tonight - I assume he hasn't practiced at QB for weeks. But going forward, I think it's clear from Bellomy's performance that we need to try Gardner there. From here on out, Gardner should - at the least - be splitting his practice reps between QB and WR, if not going back to QB full-time. This will also help him get ready for next season, when he may well be our best option at QB.
He showed little in his mop up time last year other than the ability to scramble. His passing was erratic and nothing to write home about. He wasnt a frosh last year so that is not an excuse. He had practice time last year. Obviously the coaches who see him day in and day out, saw the same things I am saying. Not that I am an expert. You dont move the most precious commodity in sports out of the position if he is going to be elite or at least ABOVE average at the position.
The pining for Gardner now is a lot like the pining for Bellomy each time DRob f**** up - it is always greener on the other side.
only require an ability to threaten the run with the zone read and complete simple short passes. I don't think anyone would argue that Gardner wouldn't be a more threatening presence running the zone read than Bellomy.
I'm seriously interested in hearing how Hoke still went with Bellomy after the kid was 0-11 with 2 INTs and 3 sacks for -16 yards? There's being loyal and there's being stupid.
The coaches gambled and lost. Gardner is almost certainly better able to play QB right now. But thanks to the lack of talent at receiver, they cut gardner's reps and prayed Denard wouldn't get hurt. As it turned out, though, Gardner hasn't shown much at receiver and we got stuck without an even remotely viable back-up QB. This is the first time I feel like Hoke really blew it. You can't go into a big game without a servicable back-up QB. They should have had Gardner prepared. You can walk and chew gum at the same time.
That's probably the most disappointing thing about the move. I wasn't expecting him to be all big-ten but I was hoping by this time we'd see the light coming on, and him being a decent contributor at wr. He catches a couple balls a game but when he's had catches to make a big play it seems he's failed to convert most of the time.
You missed another Russ, Russ Rein in 1984 against Iowa . . . Michigan's last shutout.
I thought I saw the worst of what a UM offense could be in 2008 with Sheridan and Threet...
I was wrong...
I'm pretty buzzed so the QB's name is escaping me (Demetrius Brown??) but he threw 5-6 int's in a game that UM lost by 7 pts.
Given Bellomy's performance tonight trying to pass the football, it's no wonder Denard is starting quarterback, even if he was not a phenomenal running QB.
What makes things worse, Borges runs very simple passing plays, which allows the offense to be a sitting duck for the opponent's defense. There is a lack of creativity and screams predictability. At least with Devin Gardner's running ability, you allow 3 options instead of 2: hand off to a running back or attempt to pass.
In addition the OL is porous, the current RB corps is either very ineffective or very green. As for the WR, should we begin to consider giving the starting WR's rubber cement for their hands.
Finally, can someone tell Borges about a hurry-up offense or no huddle offense. Let's not give the oppoenent's defense to complete homework for next week's class on the field!
... Borges passing plays are *not* simple. The West Coast offense has, as Seth alluded to in an early thread, a symphony of route-trees that nearly always spring someone open. We have had a ton of dropped passes, non-crisp routes (particularly Devin Gardner), and inaccurate passes.
For example, in the last two games, third-and-goal, Borges dialed up pass plays that got a receiver open at the goal line crossing left to right - an easy throw for a right-handed QB to make if he gets the time. Both times the line blocked, the receivers ran good routes ... and the pass missed. That's not on Borges.
Finally, to get back to the point of the thread ... no, we shouldn't move DG to QB. Any scenario where Denard is out for an extended period means we're done - he's the entire engine for our offense. In a sense, it doesn't matter who the backup is, so we shouldn't strip one position to get no improvement at another.
I feel for Bellomy - he's, what, 20? - he had to know that this was an important game, and every time a pass got dropped or he misread the D that monkey just got worse. I sincerely hope the coaches are basically reminding him that he can't change what happened, he can only go forward and learn from this. He's got nowhere to go but up, after all.
I also fear that Devin Gardner was moved to WR for two reasons: A, desperation - we had no one else who could get separation, and if he can pick up the WR routes well enough ... B, he was going to end up the 3rd-string QB behind Bellomy if he didn't move, because he's not accurate enough to be a good QB either - basically a bigger-but-slower-and-less-practiced Denard.
Neither one augurs well for him, and if they're both true ... well, maybe a full offseason at WR will help him tighten up his routes and his ball-in-flight-radar.
I refuse to blame Russell Bellomy. He is a RS Freshman with little experience and the receivers didn't help him AT ALL. Yet again.
I was starting to think that the team hated him or something - - I think it was about 15 passes into his career before I saw a receiver not drop one of his passes.
Even Brian pointed out in an MGoPodcast that he thinks that the receivers are trying to make everyone who doesn't want Denard to play QB feel bad with the receivers refusing to catch balls and Roundtree swatting them out of the air.
is the guy who caught the first pass was the fullback who almost never gets the ball thrown his way.
Denard kept his helmet on the whole second half. What a champ.
It's time for Rawls. Or anyone else. Fitz has had his chance. Maybe he needs the motivation of working to get his spot back.
Bellomy only highlighted the continued problem with our offense which is the absence of a true running game from our RBs. And speaking of RBs, why in the hell didn't Rawls get any touches? Toussaint was meh. And while I love him, Vincent Smith isn't exactly a "change of pace" back. He's a smaller slower version of Toussaint. Rawls at least would have been a different look, someone to lower the boom especially when we went to I-form. Is he in the doghouse or is there an injury I missed?
Wow, I thought the game made me feel bad. The reactions of fans is shameful. Better years are coming and those that can't see that or don't understand why tonight went all wrong should probably put down the keyboards.
Yeah better years are coming! As soon as we get rid of the guy who's scored over 75 touchdowns and single handedly kept us from becoming Washington!
We may not again have an individual player like Denard, who strikes fear into every opposing DC. But the way we're recruiting, our entire team should be more talented across the board in the future.
This one falls on Hoke. Hear me out. Bellomy was the right choice at first to go with. Once we realized D Rob was out for good, we should have made the switch. Bellomy started what 0/10? I am not suggesting we win with Gardner. I remember what he looked like at times last year. All I am saying is once its proven in this big of a game that RB is not the right choice give DG a chances to see what happens. It's not a knock on RB. That was a unfair situation for his first time meaningful pt to come on the road against Nebraska at night with that much on the line. At least DG had been here 3 years and been on the field a lot. Once again not suggesting we win if we make the move but after 0/10 why not
according to reports
Cuz last time I check receivers get jacked pretty often. I can't see how it'd be more dangerous to put him at QB.
The issue isn't where he'd be more likely to aggravate the injury, it's whether he can perform at QB with an injured throwing shoulder.
Has not happened since 1962.
We can debate WHAT is wrong, but we cannot debate That SOMETHING is wrong.
A conservative gameplan against an agressive MSU D and a few dropped passes account for the lack of TDs leading up to Denard's injury.
Losing does that.
Don's made that post after every loss Hoke has had. We've always gone on to win the following week, so maybe it's his personal reverse-jinx.
I also think people need to calm down just a litle bit. Notre Dame is the only game we really had no business losing. Alabama is Alabama. Crap officiating plus Denard going down with no QB depth, what did you expect tonight? Denard going down spelled just the doom I (and most everyone else) thought it would. Auburn we are not.
Gardner's been practicing as a WR. Regardless of how painful that was--and it was Sheridan-level painful make no mistake--it seems the plan has always been if Denard gets hurt, Bellomy plays the rest of that game. If the plan is to get Gardner ready for long-term as expected, it won't happen in-game.
I know while watching that there's something in side you screaming 'WHAT ABOUT OUR 5-STAR JUNIOR QUARTERBACK WHO HAS BEEN IN BIG GAMES BEFORE?' and even if the part of your brain that remembers Gardner in as something other than a distraction for Fitz/Denard Jet is asleep at that moment, you can't put a quarterback in who hasn't been readied for the situation. "Gardner and stuff" would look just as awful.
I didn't think Bellomy would be that hopelessly bad. He has neither accuracy nor any kind of arm. If Denard can't go next week and Michigan doesn't prep Gardner, that right there is enough to declare Gardner really isn't any good. These coaches are not crazy. They're going to do what they think is best to win. They're not liable to just throw shit at the wall like Rodriguez was on defense, and that's why you see them sticking to the plan and not just trying Gardner and stuff. If Bellomy really is a better option, well, you have seen extended Bellomy now and no, that isn't going to spring into a Big Ten-level quarterback anytime in 2012. Either Denard will be able to play, Gardner will be in, or give up on Gardner this year because the coaches think he'll do worse than whatever that just was.
That is a defeatest attitude, and it's NOT something I ever want to see out of a coaching staff EVER. Clearly Bellomy is fucking awful but the point is it couldn't have been any worse. FFS put in Jack Kennedy - the result woulda been the same.
What you are suggesting is the offensive equivalent of "hey let's try Vinopal at FS." Yes, it can get worse when you throw shit at the wall. Yes, it is technically possible that you'll sell it as a painting, but you have to weigh that likelihood versus the 100% chance being the guy who flung shit all over his wall.
I have no trouble believing Bellomy > Kennedy.
If Bellomy ever starts a game at michigan, Hoke bet ready himself for coaching DL in the MAC. I don't care if DG hasn't taken a snap in practice or not, you can't go worse than 3/16 and 3 picks.At least DG in the game opens up the playbook a bit.And they can't blitz the shit out of us.
I am gonna get the ole cleats out of storage and give Brady a call and let him know I'm ready to play. I will not only throw accurately, but I will sprint downfield and CATCH the ball. Hear me now, and believe me later!!
Has anyone thought about the fact that Gardner might be hurt? Remember him hitting the riser near the end of the ND game? It messed up his shoulder, and it might very well have been part of the issue. Think about it, he's not looked the same since that game, maybe he's able to play WR, but not QB.
Yes, his seperated shoulder has been addressed but people want to complain illogically. Put in the QB with the separated throwing shoulder rabble rabble. It's the OC who has been successful for decades ,who can't run his own system because we don't have the players for it, he forgot how to coach rabble rabble.
People need to be real, last year was a bit of a mirage that owes a great deal of credit to the schedule. We still aren't very talented. We'll get there. Until then rabble rabble.
Number 8 at QB for Michigan = DEATH
(except vs Minny, thank you Nick).
One handed catch. Take that Minnesota!
Yes, Gardner hurt his shoulder at Notre Dame, sliding into that structure when he slid out of the side of the end zone. He left the game with his shoulder in a sling and there were rumors that he had a separated shoulder. It is very possible that he was injured enough that he can't throw but that he can still play receiver. Hoke doesn't tell the press anything about injuries so no one would know for sure.
With how ridiciculously bad Bellomy was playing, I can't believe DG wouldn't have gotten into the game at QB if he had been taking any snaps there in practice. Bellomy was just brutally bad. He couldn't complete even the most basic throws.
Wtf t the coaches thinking. Ud think at 15 plays and -12 yards theyd figure out Russel ain't working at qb
There is always more to the story. Maybe Russ has been the man in practice... just froze up during the game? Maybe the package in place this week was something he couldn't run or didn't get enough reps running. Trying to be positive here and consider the whole picture, but it is tough.
There's not a whole lot of wiggle room when it comes to arm strength. A guy doesn't have to be Favre to make the throws, but he has to be able to make the throws, and whateve else Bellomy is he doesn't have that. It took him almost a full second to load up and chuck the one that went 10 yards short. That's simply not a Big Ten arm.
We should find more game opportunities to 'grow' our back-up QBs. You get out of it what you put into it and I'm not sure it's ever been a strength of ours.
From what I saw it was the WRs that seem to have a problem. We'd have a Bellomy for 2013 post if those guys would just catch a ball once in a blue moon!!!
The receivers dropped what, maybe 4 passes? Some of them were doomed passes, anyway. So instead of being 3/16, Bellomy might have been 7/16. That's still terrible.
I saw absolutely nothing in Bellomy that makes me believe that after a week running the offense in practice he'll be ready to start.
Devon, on the other hand, was a former 5 star QB who was flipped to WR so he could get playing time - not cause Bellomy was a better option at QB. Give Devon ALL the reps this week in practice and put him in coach.
He has a separated shoulder from the nd game
The Notre Dame game was now a full month ago now. I'm uncertain of how long seperated shoulders take to heal up enough to get back to throwing, so I will make no claims on that.
But IF Devin is good to go I hope he'll get plenty of snaps at QB this week. The emergence of Funchess and Dileo make me feel okay about our team's overall recieving ability without Devin at wideout and I think we might need him at QB even if Denard is okay for next week. Bellomy simply doesn't look ready for prime-time and our offensive weaknesses are usually covered for by the thread of Denard's legs, which Bellomy can't approximate but Devin certainly can. We're not going to win a lot of games without Denard, but if we can get merely competent QB play I suspect we can still will 2.5/4 remaining games on our schedule. I don't see Minnesota or Iowa putting more than 10-15 points on the board against this D, Northwestern would be a toss-up without Denard, but I still think we can grind that one out at home.
I don't see us keeping up with ohio without Denard though, so I hope he's either 100% soon or else is able to rest up for a next few weeks to get healthy before THE GAME.