Devin Gardner Appreciation Thread
It is funny how winning solves all (most). Having a great 2015 defense and an improved OL in pass protect makes every QB look better.
To that end I saw a comment in the last thread about how QB is not a tire fire as it was last year. Oh?
(if the last column is not shown on your mobile device it is INTs = 6 each)
Comp | Att | % | Yds | YPA | TD | INT | |
Gardner | 72 | 114 | 63.2% | 872 | 7.6 | 5 | 6 |
Rudock | 89 | 148 | 60.1% | 956 | 6.5 | 5 | 6 |
Above are Rudock's first 5 games vs Gardner's 5 starts of 14 (I excluded Minn for obvious reasons). Quality of opponents is similar (2014 ND = 2015 Utah, 2014 Utah = 2015 BYU, baby seals, bad Big 10 teams etc) Devin had a much worse offensive coaching staff top to bottom. And no QB guru. And Devin had nowhere near the time Jake enjoys on almost every play. You can say he had a better primary WR I guess... who he rarely had time to find. (who was hurt post ND)
Takeaway: Even PTSD Devin with this OL protection would have been interesting. (non PTSD Devin? Damn...) Statsistically Devn was better or a wash last year at this point in every line item other than total yards... with a lot worse pass protect . Here is hoping Rudock pulls away in the 2nd half of the year.
Game logs
Comp | Att | % | Yds | YPA | TD | INT | |
App St | 13 | 14 | 92.9% | 173 | 12.4 | 3 | 0 |
ND | 19 | 32 | 59.4% | 189 | 5.9 | 0 | 3 |
Miami OH | 13 | 20 | 65.0% | 184 | 9.2 | 2 | 2 |
Utah | 14 | 26 | 53.8% | 148 | 5.7 | 0 | 0 |
Rutgers | 13 | 22 | 59.1% | 178 | 8.1 | 0 | 1 |
Gardner | 72 | 114 | 63.2% | 872 | 7.6 | 5 | 6 |
Comp | Att | % | Yds | YPA | TD | INT | |
Utah | 27 | 43 | 62.8% | 279 | 6.5 | 2 | 3 |
OSU | 18 | 26 | 69.2% | 180 | 6.9 | 0 | 1 |
UNLV | 14 | 22 | 63.6% | 123 | 5.6 | 1 | 1 |
BYU | 14 | 25 | 56.0% | 194 | 7.8 | 1 | 0 |
Maryland | 16 | 32 | 50.0% | 180 | 5.6 | 1 | 1 |
Rudock | 89 | 148 | 60.1% | 956 | 6.5 | 5 | 6 |
October 6th, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
darth vader is like hitler in this gif
/fight over
October 6th, 2015 at 3:13 PM ^
Gardner was really pretty good. One of the great tragedies* of Michigan Football history is the fact that he never got to work with a competent coach or behind a competent line.
*not actually a tragedy.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:16 PM ^
Yup. That is exactly his problem. He had a defensive-minded head coach for most of his playing time and also went through three offensive coordinators. I think he has the mind and ability to be great, but unfortunately did not get sufficient coaching when he was the starter.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:06 PM ^
And 2 position changes. (to WR then back to QB)
October 6th, 2015 at 5:01 PM ^
on the sidelines.
October 6th, 2015 at 5:37 PM ^
line we had last year...except we did not have Miller returning under center? So I would strongly agree with the competent coaching part...but would put a * next to the competent offensive line comment. *lack of competent offensive line due to lack of competent coaching of said line.
October 7th, 2015 at 12:10 AM ^
When is Rudock running for his life and coughing up blood?
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October 7th, 2015 at 11:35 AM ^
you think essentially-same-offensive-linemen = same offensive line?
For a Gardner-appreciation thread, there sure is a lot of non-appreciation here. I think the only point of the stats was to show that Gardner wasn't as bad as some people may remember. So many of his problems were almost entirely due to inept coaching, square-peg/round-hole offensive scheme, and an O-line that turned him into a human pinata. Every 30 seconds, he was in the equivalent of a car accident. Even with all that, the stats aren't drastically different.
And still, he left his guts out on the field every time while armchair QBs sat on their padded seats eating nachos and endlessly bitching. Dude took as much punishment, on and off the field, as any player I can think of. And some people still can't resist piling on.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:14 PM ^
Well, winning is all that matters in the end, so yes, it really does solve a lot of things.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:20 PM ^
This is an excellent post. I thought no one would ever surpass John Navarre in terms of underappreciated QB, but Devin blew that to shreds. Guy should have been a superstar.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:49 PM ^
Navarre is one of my favorite Michigan quarterbacks. I believe he is in my top-five. I have only been watching since the early 90s, though.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:30 PM ^
Eh, I half agree with you. Navarre was a good (maybe great) quarterback that actually won a lot of games and was the last guy to give us an outright B1G Championship. Devin was a guy who played for a couple lame duck coaches and had his talent completely wasted. Very different scenarios. I guess they're both underappreciated but in different ways.
October 6th, 2015 at 5:31 PM ^
Poor Navarre. I remember hearing groans from the crowd even when he was running on the field to lead the offense AT THE SPRING GAME.
That was a bizarre situation that I never understood. He was a great QB. And there was never an interview I saw with him where he didn't come across as a really nice person. He constantly worked his ass off despite the constant criticism.
October 7th, 2015 at 1:48 AM ^
Unfortunately, i thing navarre was killed with comparisons to henson, who should have been there when navarre started as a rs fr. Then you have brady, griese, driesbach, collins, grbac all in the nfl at the same time.
He had gutierrez who was highly recruited and early spread/mobile qb fans wanting to see jason forcier, bass, and the kid from seaholm, jermaine gonzales?
Then he was followed by henne.
That was a lot of potential to live upto
October 7th, 2015 at 2:20 AM ^
of calling Navarre "great", but he was definitely better than what a lot of Michigan fans give him credit for, then and now.
His misfortune was that he followed Tom Brady and Drew Henson, especially that he was thrown in there too early when Henson left early for George Steinbrenner and the OSU Yankees. A year of seasoning if Henson would have stayed would have allowed Navarre to come in better prepared.
October 6th, 2015 at 5:32 PM ^
I feel terrible for DG, and what's left of his ribcage. It's a damn travesty what Hoke and Borges did to him. It's so much worse than someone like Antonio Bass, who just lost his shot because of a freak injury. What they did to Gardner was criminal.
October 6th, 2015 at 5:51 PM ^
player DG would have been under a coach like Harbaugh....especially when you see a player like Colin Kaepernick...and the difference a coach can make.
October 6th, 2015 at 8:23 PM ^
I concur.
October 6th, 2015 at 9:40 PM ^
Don't let Nussmeier off the hook. Gardner had his moments under Borges (ND '13, OSU '13), but never came close to replicating those performances under Nussmeier.
October 7th, 2015 at 5:29 PM ^
This is true.
October 6th, 2015 at 5:39 PM ^
...QB's?
October 6th, 2015 at 5:51 PM ^
The current backup, whoever he may be.
October 6th, 2015 at 7:31 PM ^
I would say Drew Henson was over-appreciated when he was splitting games with Brady. Carr invested a lot in keeping him away from baseball only to have him leave to play baseball--at the expense of playing time for a senior Tom Brady.
Henson was good when he played a full season as a starter but, to paraphrase Things to Do in Denver When Your Dead, his reputation far exceeded his skills (mammy-rammer).
October 6th, 2015 at 9:45 PM ^
Tom Brady? He had a good-but-not-great career at Michigan, but we've retconned the fact that he wasn't a superstar in college in light of the success he's had in the pros.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:20 PM ^
Devin and Denard for all of their contributions to Michigan football and for the classy way they conducted themselves while on campus. And this was during a very difficult period for the program, where there was constant negativity swirling around and a lot of losses on the field. Lesser men would have lashed out at some point or transferred.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:10 PM ^
Here's looking at you Ryan Mallett!
October 6th, 2015 at 4:25 PM ^
Justin Boren
October 6th, 2015 at 3:21 PM ^
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Harbaugh would have done wonders with Gardner, and it's a damn shame Gardner never got the coaching he needed.
As far as your analysis though, you left out turnovers, which would be a major factor to compare as well. The YPA is also interesting, Gardner's was 7.65 to Rudock's 6.46.
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:27 PM ^
I did not leave out turnovers. It is the far right column which is hid on some platforms by the advertising or the diaries.
They both have 5 TD v 6 INT thru their first 5 stars. Identical stats. In fact they both had 3 in one game.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:56 PM ^
We'll see how the year pans out - but if Rudock manages Gardner's 2014 TD-INT ratio for the last 7 games this year there will be much bitching. (If you don't feel like looking it up he had 5 TDs to 9 INTs)
October 6th, 2015 at 11:27 PM ^
what about fumbles? I couldn't find how many Gardner had last year but I know he lost 11 fumbles in '13 and I know he had more than Rudock has now. I also don't think having comparable stats with Rudock is something to crow about, most people here see Rudock is not good..he is just better than anyone else we have available.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:29 PM ^
Apologies, was looking at it on the app and all the columns didn't show up at first. Knowing the TD/Int ratios are the exact same, all I have to say is wow. It's amazing how everyone else elevating their game can mask mediocre QB play.
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:41 PM ^
That's the point of the post. :)
I think what Durkin and staff has done is the more remarkable thing. You lose your best DE, you lose your best LB, you lose your 2nd best CB to transfer and you add Peppers and your defense goes from S&P+/FEI rank 35-40 to uber bad ass #3 and dominating.
That has allowed Rudock to be Gardner. Yet everyone things Gardner was horrible and Rudock has been a good upgrade. In fact they are a wash at best. Your 2015 offense is essentially identical to your 2014 offense statistically.
The rush games are also identical - I just checked. 1002 yards last year in those 5 Gardner stars. 1007 yards this year.
So running game identical. Gardner with slight edge at QB. Yet sadness and desolation last year, and playoff threads this year.
#Harbaugh
Can't wait for a difference maker like a "young Gardner" to be our QB.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:53 PM ^
Some great points. I've been amazed by the improvement on defense as well, but that's what great coaching will do. The secondary looks so much better it's absurd. It's been beaten to death but I think Manning coaching DBs with no previous experience doing it was a horrible decision.
And I'd argue with regards to the run game that they're not exactly identical, we racked up huge numbers against App St and Miami(OH) last year and that probably makes those stats misleading.
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October 6th, 2015 at 4:07 PM ^
Right but someone else later in the thread was saying a far superior run game this year. That's another perception thing due to the winning. It's about the same run game - maybe mildly better.
Just like with the QB play the winning makes everything else "feel" better "our running game is way better this year".
We don't feel helter skelter this year on offense because we almost never have to come from behind outside of game 1. So no pressure to force things that the 2014 offense was forced into doing as the defense gave up way more pts last year. Last 2 games the other team didnt score and OSU we were behind for a few minutes and UNLV not at all. So the offense - even when nearly stagnant - doesnt feel worrisome. Not the case in 2014 when opposing offenses took advantage of the defense more.
Of course this needs to change as the opponents get better.
October 6th, 2015 at 6:05 PM ^
But wasn't Devin a bigger part of last year's run game than Rudock this year?
Without looking up the numbers, my perception is that the RB position is more effective this year.
October 6th, 2015 at 7:49 PM ^
No not last year. In 2013 yes. He slowed down a lot in 2014.
Now this is net of sacks but he only had 258 yds in 2014. About 100 of those came in the first 5 starts.
He had 483 yds net of sacks the prior year, so lost just under 50% of his production year over year. Think injuries built up on his body as he was not as dynamic of a runner in 2014 as 2013.
Jake has run for 73 yds thru 5 games so basically the difference between Devin and Jake is 25 yds in 5 games or 5 yds a game.
October 6th, 2015 at 4:38 PM ^
Countess would be the fourth best CB on this team. His coverage skills eroded as his career progressed.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:24 PM ^
Yeah but
I agree on passing they are about the same. But Gardner got sacked a lot more and our running game was non-existent. I think the big sacks are the tire fire people are talking about. Gardner always scrambled thinking he could Denard or Cam his way out of pressure. I like how Rudock gets rid of the ball under pressure.
That said, the OL and Hoke ball had a lot to do with it, so it's not apples to apples like your charts show.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:34 PM ^
5 returning starters on OL this year + Drevno. Sure helps. Rudock has the superior line. How many times does he truly have pressure on him a game. Vs Devin who often had a guy in his face by "3 apple"...
I wouldnt say the run games were that different however. I'd have to go look but I bet the yards gained running were not off by more than 10% per carry year over year.
EDIT - just checked
- 2014 - Michigan had 1002 yds rushing in those 5 starts
- 2015 - Michigan has 1007 yards rushing
So the run games are currently identical...
October 6th, 2015 at 3:24 PM ^
I still wear my Gardner jersey. As a Class of 2016 who first became a fan my freshman year, he is my favorite Michigan player.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:25 PM ^
Only problem I have with this is that gardners stats were mostly due to app state. Take that away and u can't compare the 2 qbs. Ruddock also knows what to do when under pressure. Gardner always looked like a deer in headlights
October 6th, 2015 at 5:38 PM ^
Rudddcock
October 6th, 2015 at 8:08 PM ^
chasing you, you'd have looked like a deer in the headlights too.
October 6th, 2015 at 3:27 PM ^
Classy kid. Loves the university. Would love to see what Harbaugh could have done with him...
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:31 PM ^
Ditto. And I love seeing him on the sidelines this season. Some guys in his position would be bitter, but he still supports the team and the University.
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October 6th, 2015 at 3:29 PM ^
I was thinking about this earlier today. Such a shame. As far as I know(nothing) DG was a stand up team player who unfortunately was wasted due to the previous staff's incompetance.