I'm still waiting for an explanation on the DA that went missing. Something really seems weird there.
this may be of some local interest
I'm still waiting for an explanation on the DA that went missing. Something really seems weird there.
The general understanding is that it was related to organized crime. There is no evidence to prove it, hence organized.
He was set to prosecute one of Saul Goodman's clients...
...that PSU could be a tip of a bigger iceberg but anytime I've mentioned it here I've been supressed.
Aside from the missing DA, the other creepy thing is that there have been speculations of massive scandal in Wash DC involving prominent members of government (both parties) stretching to the White House before. Use a search engine and try "franklin coverup" or "white house pedophilia."
I will not speculate or get into specific organizations, but the backwaters of the internet are full of people claiming to have been abused as children. Mostly in ritualistic fashion by people in very powerful positions in various institutions both public and private.
The website I read that linked to the information concerning this topic dispeared over night and the youtube users accounts were shut down. Creepy.
Tip of the iceberg indeed.
you won't have that problem.
I remain convinced that this went beyond the university.
DAs investigate in some pretty tough environments without going missing. I've never believed in coincidence, and I'm not about to change now.
No way in hell I'm Googling "pedophilia". HOWEVAH, a friend of mine is dating an assistant DA in Pennsylvania and she said she has been investigating on a child abuse ring at Penn State since last November.
He was either paid to go away, or knew something was coming and took off.
The details of his disappearance don't show any kind of foul play. His car was found in the middle of nowhere and his computer was thrown in the water, the hard drive was taken out and swipped with a magnet. They also found stuff on his home computer about destroying hard drives.
It's my guess that they cut him a deal to drop the charges, and when he realized what he got himself into he left town. If you have become the biggest liability in the case, run away before they come to get you. That's what I would do.
heard that also. he got involved with the wrong woman and her other half didn't like it.
That's always been the operating theory. I got that from State Police from the same barracks that investigated. The car/computer were found about 10 miles from my house. My wife and I had our post-wedding pictures taken in that park.
I haven't talked to him in a while, but I'd love to now if they are rethinking that theory.
darn tablet doesn't like mgoblog
What the heck is going on with this world?
MADRE DE DIOS!
Ruega por nosotros.
El hombre gordo esta enojado porque el pajaro esta sobre su cabeza.
Mis pantalones no me quedan bien, son demasiado grandes.
I recall these rumors being thrown around right after the Sandusky news broke. If this is indeed true we are looking at more than just a college football coach covering up, this would be politicians and people with much more power.
I remember that too. But those rumors involved Sandusky pimping boys through Second Mile. This link says it was with men connected to Penn State.
Maybe that's basically the same thing?
This is a nightmare the good folks at penn state just can't wake up from. Looks like NCAA may have indeed acted too soon after all.
This doesn't surprise me at all. I am very skeptical of the idea that someone like Sandusky could just start preying on boys randomly out of the blue--child pornography was almost certainly involved, whether he produced it or not. He needed to feed his evil desires. I was more surprised that no talk of this came up during the investigation and trial, but I guess it was coming.
So then I read the article, and what it describes is much worse than what is summarized by the OP. Yuck.
This whole rumor was mentioned at one point, but the guy who brought it up was Pittsburgh sports shock-jock Mark Madden.
Madden is noted for being really terrible, so no one really picked up on the story since he was the only one discussing it.
Dan Bernstein a radio host/writer on WSCR in Chicago has been all over this case and talking about this and more for months. He's been right on everything so far and if all he has said ends up being right then lookout. There is all kinds of stuff that has yet to come out but seems like it all will soon with the Feds.
Eh... Not exactly accurate about Mark Madden. He is indeed a shock jock, and a lot of people absolutely hate him, but he actually does get far more right than most people give him credit for
Time to give Penn State the death penalty. Put them out of their mercy, Mark Emmert.
Also, I bet Jim Delany is frantically calling South Bend right now.
Or maybe he should be making a call to Pitt. I was never a proponent of Pitt to the Big Ten, but if PSU absolutely implodes, Pitt might end up taking a major bump up, plus we'd keep PA in the footprint. With PSU (and a strong PSU) Pitt bring little. But if PSU basically dies and is no longer a part of the conference, then Pitt has a lot more value, and almost becomes a natural choice for the conference.
Call me a home team loyalist but I'd take Temple and the Philly/NJ market over Pittsburgh.
Yes, because the residents of Philly/NJ just can't wait till Saturday so they can glue themselves to the TV to watch some Temple football. Pitt's not crazy, but it beats the shit out of Temple. You are a homer - the statistics aren't on your side.
I said so.
The facts are its a far bigger market in Pennsylvania with greater television impact.
The B1G could look at Rutgers but if they want to stay in the state the other very large public university is TU.
Temple, essentially booted out of the conference in 2004 after failing to bring in enough revenue, might now seem like one of the least-worst options now. It only has about 200,000 football fans but at least brings the Philadelphia media market and good basketball.
Philly is a great sports town. Fans show up and support a good product (or a half assed product) like the Phils if the competition is good. Philly is a football town and I reasonably expect the numbers (non scientific as they are above) to only increase as TU plays in the Big East.
Philly fan, NE NJ fan likes a good product and will support it. I, for one, will be in Happy Valley for the September 22 game against Penn State...provided they still have a team.
the sports hotspot statistics map is awesome, thanks.
Rumors of some kind of child sex ring involving Sandusky, other Penn St. officials, and outside high profile figures trading kids for sex and whatnot? Looks like they might be more than rumors.
You don't believe me? You think that those commies at the NCAA weren't out to get Penn State because they were all jealous of Joe Pa's record of purity and success?
Here's a t-shirt. That oughta prove it.
at least a couple of people are cancelling their orders for those bad boys right about now. . . or pushing them toward the back of their t-shirt drawers.
If you changed the year to "1996", the words on the back would describe Sandusky.
Won't somebody think of the graduates?!
the more layers you go through, the more it stinks. I want PSU to burn... cancel the football program and close down the school - whatever it takes to clean the shit out of that house of ill-repute.
And the United States Postal Inspectors are running the child-porn investigation?!? Didn't the USPS just default on a $5.5 BILLION loan!?! But somehow they are going to oversee getting to the bottom of the PSU cesspool? Wonderful...
The USPS , if this report is even true, aren't investigating the NCAA aspects of this. They are (apparently) looking at a child porn ring. That seems like a pretty reasonable excercise to me.
I think his point is that we need the USPS to, like, deliver mail and such. He's not suggesting that there be no federal-level investigation, just that it seems strange (on the facts we have) that the USPS got the nod here.
and they have nothing whatsoever to do with the USPS going backrupt. They are law enforcement officials and are involved in numerous criminal investigations like any other law enforcement agency.
Appreciate the clarification - thanks
US Laws: 18 USC 1470, 2251, 2252, 2253, 2254, 2422, 2425 - task the Postal Inspection Service as the leading federal law enforcement agency in the effort to combat the production and distribution of child pornography and other crimes exploiting children through the mail and, when it involves the mail, over the internet.
It would more likely be the OIG (Office of Inspector General) that is actually doing the investigation with the assistance of the postal inspectors. Postal inspectors fall under the OIG authority. Also, it wasn't a loan that the USPS defaulted on, it would have been a payment for retire health benefits and pension. In laymans terms, the post office has to PREFUND retire pensions for future workers that even arn't born yet. They are the only employer in the US that is required to do so and it is a law. If the USPS didn't have to PREFUND the pension pool, it would be inte black and opperate at profit. Another thing is contrary to popular belief, the USPS isn't funded by taxpayer money. They survive from the revenue it generates from selling stamps and other services with no federal funding assistance. The reason I know this is because I worked for the PO for 13 years and recently took a buyout a couple of years ago.
Is there no end to the insanity? Where is this thing going to go?
Would anyone think that if this story turns out to have legs that the NCAA would increase its sanctions?
I would think increasing penalties anymore would be nothing but the death penalty. The question would be for how many seasons.
All I can imagine (if this is true) is more information that JoePa probably kept secret and then the Paterno family and PSU nation saying, "Stop attacking JoePa!!!" and then his family launching another investigation of this investigation's investigation.
Then the rest of the world pulls their hair out.
gee, you think the family, alums, and couple of rogue trustees that want the ncaa to re-eval the decision after a more thorough investigation is done, will stop appealing?
naw, don't think so either.
I don't think there would be further penalties unless it's shown that PSU had more chances to know what was happening than those that have already been brought to light. PSU was punished for its inaction, not Sandusky's actions.
Make it stop.
The NCAA isn't just going to kill them, they are going to salt the ground like Rome did at Carthage.
I hear a rumor that there will be a shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation"; "That Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors."; Madden claims it’s being investigated by "two prominent columnists."
If this turns out to be true, permanently remove their eligibility for federal financial aid, put their accreditation on 100 year probation, and open a DoE audit & investigation branch office on the campus.
they have to complete the d.o.e. investigation before they lose federal funding, as that is the agency that would be responsible for it.
Consent Decree. Does it work in the same manner for the guilty party? What I am getting at is that since PSU cannot appeal the punishment, can the NCAA similarly not increase the punishment if new evidence is unearthed? I am not leaning one way or the other on the penalties, but I am curious if the suggestions of "kick 'em out" and "death penalty" are even possible now that the consent decree exists.
these are new crimes under investigation, so if it warrants, new penalties can be assessed. but probably won’t be the ncaa that will be doing it, more like d.o.e., and d.o.j. others could get involved, but those two could be the most severe.
from the beginning. The thing I kept coming back to is if JOPA and the AD simply were interested in winning football games and Sando helped you do that then maybe you could understand the twisted logic necessary for them to cover him. the thing is he wasn't helping anybody win football games since 1998 or whenever. Yet everybody gave the guy access and nobody asked questions. The DA disappears. His laptop disappears. Spanier or whoever gets a job in "national security" after the scandal. The school hires Freeh, head of FBI/insider to do the investigation. The thing stinks horribly. If they ever find the truth there will be politicians involved. I can think of one former PA senator who was involved with 2nd mile. What I want to know is how many kids associated with 2nd mile are now missing?
I'm still on the fence over whether the fate of Ray Gricar is tied to Sandusky or other related criminals he actually put away in his past.
This is pretty long from Dateline but interesting nonetheless over what happened to him...
He declined to press charges in 1998, and I'm not sure how involved he was in further investigating him after that. It pretty much became Corbett's case in 2005 or so.
Sadly, this isn't that shocking. I think we're also going to find out that 1) the number of children involved was a lot more than the 10 we know about and 2) that the number of PSU officials aware of all this was also a lot more than the six we know.
The mention of someone "connected with Penn State" narrows the list of suspects to a million of so people. But the modifier "very rich and prominent" brings us to a handful of people. I can only wonder if the authorities have been holding back on something even worse, but are now ready to fire the ICBMs in light of the appeal from the Paterno family and the defiance from some of the trustees. If you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind.
There was talk of Sandusky basically "pimping out" boys at PSU facilities to "rich donors" from a reporter, from Pittsburgh, IIRC.
There is the odd disappearance of the DA who was going to bring the orginial charges.
Here's my take on the whole thing, for what it's worth.
In 1998 when the allegations first became widely public, unless there was ALREADY a cover-up going on, what possible motivation would PSU and the people involved have to cover it up? Why not turn the sick bastard in, fire him, publicly acknowledge that scandal, donate money to victims for PR, etc. Yes, PSU's reputation would take a hit, but it would be momuntary, not devestating. Unless, that is, if they felt that there was MORE to hide.
Sandusky had played at PSU, he was a GA, and assistant, i.e., he had been on campus for decades upon decades. Perhaps PSU was afraid that if the authorities started digging into the situation in 1998, they'd find out that the university had knowledge of it for a lot longer than they were letting on. Further, I believe this goes a lot higher than we're being told.
As I mentioned before, these sick bastards exist in packs. They surround themselves with other sick fucks so their dirty deeds seem more normal, and so they're easier to carry out. All one has to do is read about the Texas Youth Commission and the Belgian Cabinet scandals (just to name a few) to see that these things quite often involve multiple high ranking people. The notion of Chester the Molester lurking in the trench coat isn't all that accurate, for the most part. I have an aquaintence whose son brought into a satanic/pedo ring by her ex-husband. I helped her out with a few legal writings and she showed me WAY MORE than I ever wanted to know about this monsters.
Mark Madden was the reporter.
it will take for the name of "the rich and powerful man" to come out.
politics go deep in PA...who else knew
left untied. This was just one of the problems with the NCAA's and Emmert's hurry to self-righteously slam PSU (and ignore plenty of ugliness elsewhere, including UCF and NC).
Wonder how many more players leave now. They just might not be able to find or FIELD a team.
Players can't leave until the end of the season now that camp has started. God only knows what they'll uncover between now and then.
They can transfer without sitting out up until they've seen game action. O'Brien may want to empty the bench in week one.
Penn State will be so thin, that any kid worth keeping will be seeing the field anyway. If there is a kid on that team not good enough to see the field, he's probably not going to hurt the team much by leaving. But I agree with what you're saying.
interesting thought- you think las vegas has an over/under for number of players in psu's first game?
I was 100% certain that as all of the facts surrounding the PSU case came to light we'd just keeping going further and further down the rabbit hole of awfulness.
That's why all of the Penn State fans clamboring for the administration to wait, rather than just take the punishments the NCAA handed down are idiots.
I have a feeling when everything comes out, the NCAA would be totally justified in making certain PSU never plays another down of football again.
Any words I could possibly formulate, wouldn't do justice to the severity of these atrocities. For the first time in my life as a parent, I had to turn the radio off with my two young children in the car when this story broke. I couldn't explain this to them in a thousand years.
What is wrong with people? Bring back the death penalty. I'm not talking about the NCAA version either. This is too disgusting to think about.
Woooow. I think Mark Madden reported this months ago to. But haven't heard anything else until now.
This isn't new, this was brought up months ago and then died away for some reason
It hasn't exactly died away. It's gone from a rumor to federal investigations.
In terms of media attention
From now on if I ever hear someone say Penn St and Happy Valley in the same sentence they are in danger of having yesterday's lunch all over their pants and shoes.
I always thought "Happy Valley" was a weird nickname, like the place was an insane asylum. That was more accurate than I ever imagined.
Would you like to have a hamburger?
Unfortunately, I figured there was more to this whole story and the initial cover up. I don't know how many of you guys were around in the 80's and remembered the Franklin Savings and Loan scandal in Neb, and the pedo ring that involved a lot of high ranking peole. John DeCamp's book, the Franklin cover up, is a scary and very chilling account of what happened to a number of children.
...finally somebody else mentions the Franklin coverup. I was beginning to think I was nuts since nobody else seems to have heard of it.
It's sickening, but ultimately I really do think it is worth it for everybody to hear the truth. Unfortunately there are some really sick people in the world. But what is also disappointing is how many of us were willing to overlook such news until it creeped so deeply into the sports world that we cherish.
I hear you man. I thought I was nuts too being the only one to mention this. That book is maybe the most frightening book I have ever read. The fact that Decamp names names, and has gotten sued for lible and won every time he has been sued shows that what is in his book is probably true, is the scariest thing. These things are very hard to believe, but they do happen all over the world. Europe and the middle east and the US are haven's for these types of sex trafficing, so the fact that this Penn State scandal may involve the same types of trafficing does not surprise me a bit. I remember hearing an interview with Decamp years ago when he was discussing these things and brought up Penn State and the allegations that have now been proven true. Sad stuff all the way around, and what a sick world we live in.
Its the same thing. There is a youtube video of Tom Brookaw reporting this story in the 80's - it shows a graphic of a Washington Post cover with the headline "Child Sex Ring Tied to White House" or something like that. then of course nothing is heard about it again in "respectable" MSM channels. instead of one tyrant king we have a thousand mini Caligulas. fuck them all.
Alright, at this point it's time to just burn the place down and start over.
How reliable of a source is RadarOnline? I haven't heard of them before, and the other rumors that were recommended looked somewhat suspicious. With the fact that the TV channel is repeating their info, I'm assuming they're fairly legit, but wondered if anyone has experience with how often their reports pan out.
...but I haven't looked at their online efforts since the magazine folded some years back so I'm not willing to vouch for it.
FWIW, the Chicago Trib online is carrying the story.
I originally heard about this from The Valenti and Foster show as soon as the first story broke out back in the winter. Since then I have not heard a second thing about it... pretty god damn disgusting. I'm not sure how that gets brought up and swept under the rug and not looked into as well and resurfaces months later.
Holy crap... This makes me sick. What is wrong with the world...
These rumors have been around a while. I'm left wondering if the reason Sandusky was allowed to hang around is because he had the 'goods' on some people so to speak.
I also remember a quote by Bobby Bowden that has been stuck in my head since this story first broke. Something along the lines of , 'we all knew something wasn't right up there,' etc. I will try to find the video but Bobby's demeanor has been peculiar on this issue.
Then get absolutely crushed. Suspend everything, fire everyone in athletics, shut it down. The fucking nerve and shear level of ignorance here is borderline psychosis. What a joke.. Yet again!
Sorry, but there's nothing in the OP that changes the fact that this is none of the NCAA's business and they're still overstepping their bounds and punishing innocent people.
Imagine if one of the people running this fine blog were found to be guilty of the crimes that Sandusky was convicted of, and other people running it were covering it up. Now, imagine Red Berenson deciding that, as punishment, all members of this blog lose access to the internet forever. That's essentially what happened here. Not only is the Sandusky scandal not in the viscinity of the NCAA's jurisdiction(for many reasons), but the punishment doesn't come close to fitting the crime...because they're not punishing ANYBODY who actually committed a crime! If it was found that the people in charge of the blog were actually running a pedophile ring, would that make it acceptable for Red to ban all members of the blog forever? Of course not. Obviously, legally and morally, the latest developments at Penn State make things far worse and far more difficult to stomach. But as far as the NCAA's involvement, this changes nothing, because it still has nothing to do with them.
If it turns out the pedophile ring included recruits who were drawn to Penn State because of the access they'd have to little boys, or if it included coaches or players on other teams who were throwing games because they were given access to little boys...then we can talk. Because at that point, unlike right now, NCAA rules would have been broken. Unlike right now, they'd have grounds to punish Penn State, and hopefully they would permanently shut down the football program.
I know this will be an unpopular statement, but that's often the case for cold, hard facts.
The accusation is that rich old pervs were donating to the football program in exchange for a romp at the neverland ranch, aka second mile. (With the possibility of the ath dept knowing)
That's sure as shit NCAA turf and warrants PSU getting negged into obilivion.
Then why did they cover it up?
If Sandusky went around raping boys outside the university, with NOBODY at the university knowing, then you may have a point. Your logic skills are so, so poor though. I'd want them to punish a school that allowed a football coach to go around dorms raping and murdering people, yes. You miss the whole problem we have with PSU in this instance. I bet standardized logic tests in high school were not your forte.
How does the whole 'giant conspiracy to cover up a terrible thing' just pass through your head without sinking in at all? Please stop. Your ignorance is actually travelling through the internet and pissing me off.
double angar - grrrr
Covering up a horrible scandal that would severely tarnish the reputation of your school and football program and keeping up the fiction that your program is on the up and up = gain.
I get that you're READY FOR SOME FOOTBAWL, but your life will go on without PSU being a football power for awhile.
"PSU didn't gain anything as a football program by raping boys in the showers. "
They sure as shit did, ignorant motherfucker. They avoided the embrassment of having one of their own dragged through the mud publicly as a rapist, a child molester (well, they successfully delayed that by 14-15 years).
This point is the whole gist of the outrage over this scandal. The original Sandusky offenses, as horrible as they are, are absolutley trumped by the DELIBERATE inaction of Paterno and company.
I cannot see why this point is so fucking lost on some people. It was a conspiracy, you incredibly dimwitted idiot.
AGAIN you miss the point. By engaging in this conspiracy, they successfully dodged all of the football-related downsides associated with the embarrasment to the program. Avoiding the public knowledge that they harbored a childboybuttrapist = gain.
That is the gain. They did not want to set their precious little milquetoast blue and white football program back with the public acknowledgement that they employed a fucking child rapist. Hence, the GAIN. Hence, the direct relation to the football program.
Perhaps I could best put this in song:
That last sentence was a promise.
Want a "decent" opinion? One question, and one question only, purely asked from not a criminal standpoint, but the NCAA's:
Would Matt Millen/Levar Arrington/John Cappelletti/Curtis Enis/Todd Blackledge/Ki-Jana Carter/Kerry Collins/DJ Dozier/Roosevelt Grier (or who the fuckever) have chosen Penn State as the place to matriculate and play college football, knowing their head coach had harbored a child rapist for years and years, with the tacit blessing of the university?
Don't see a gain/advantage there troll?
1. I hope you treat others as you wish to be treated. Anger and negativity breed anger and negativity.
2. I guess I don't quite understand this can of worms the NCAA has opened. We aren't talking about laws or the legal process of the everyday citizen. We are talking about a game. A game that is making billions of dollars in tax exempt money for the universities, but a game none the less. College football is entertainment to us. Nothing more, nothing less. The comings and goings of PSU, or OSU, or UM, or any other school has no real impact on my life (or most others) other than a diversion to the everyday grind. The NCAA has no authority over me anymore other than the team I root for. That being said, I will play your game.
The NCAA Board of Directors is voted on by the member institution. If the majority of the member institutions don't like how the NCAA BoT handles these situations, they can vote them out. Remember, the NCAA looks out for it's member institutions so when one, like PSU, allows and even helps (allowing Sandusky to bring the boys on campus) about as bad of a crime as one could, they need to take action, at least in their eyes. How bad would it look to the nation if PSU was constantly in bowl games, playing for national championships, ect. It would look like the schools can get away with pretty much anything. That's not the image that the university presidents want to project, and I can see why.
You say it's only a legal matter, but it's so much more. Does the actions of PSU affect the other member institutions? You bet it does. One of the shining beacons of college athletics, "The Grand Experiment" was nothing more than lip service. With more and more schools cheating, paying players, allowing extra benefits, the image of the NCAA is taking a nose dive. That nose dive leads to lower revenue. They had to act. In the case of PSU, they had to act early. If these allegations are true, and Sandusky was using TSM as a way to "pimp" kids, he was using PSU to help in that endeavor. By agreeing to the sanctions now, they won't be forced to shut down the program entirely. That would be a mess. I'm sure PSU and the NCAA knew what was coming down the pipe in regards to this "new" investigation. They are trying to keep PSU out of the spotlight as much as possible.
BTW - If I were Miami (YTM) or UNC, I would be shaking in my boots. I think Emmert and the NCAA are trying to "clean up." As both UNC and Miami (YTM) are repeat offenders, I think they will get hammered.
that the NCAA did have to act to punish PSU over and above whatever the legal system ends up doing, I understand where you're coming from with your arguments. You immediately lose my support, though, by disintegrating into low-brow tossing of insults, especially in the above post, when you go off on "wigeon" 's family members. "Bowl of dick"? Sorry, but I'm really tiring of seeing that phrase being used, and I bet I'm not the only one. But suggesting that his family members partake of said bowl? Grow up, regardless of how much personal success you claim to have had in life!
rant and rave like a lunatic. If you think everyone who disagrees with you is a stupid fucking asshole then you are going to lead a very frustrating and angry life.
I agree with you 100%.
The NCAA can do what ever it's members give it authority to do. The NCAA is an organization that is run by the universities that it represents. The NCAA is like the NFL or the MBL that act in the best interest of the all the schools it represents. The Board of Directors, which gave Emmert his power to sanction PSU, is made up of College Presidents (PSU peers). If the NCAA goes too far and sets precedents if sanctioning schools too strongly before the facts come out, the universities themselves are to blame. Again, who gives the power to the NCAA? PSU could have fought the NCAA on the issues, but they didn't. They choose to take the plea bargain. It was their choice to have these sanctions and fines. They didn't make up the rules as the went. They have a bylaw that covers this (see below).
If you look at who the NCAA has sanctioned, it is teams that have been investigated by someone else. UM basketball was brought up by the FBI, OSU was brought up by the FBI, USC was investigated because of a civil case. Even stretchgate was "Investigated" by a "newspaper." They can interview, but they can't supeona (which I think is a good thing). The NCAA took the Grand Jury testimony and the Freeh Report as their investigation.
Lastly, here is the NCAA bylaw 2.4: The Principle of Sportsmanship and Ethical Conduct
For intercollege athletics to promote the charecter development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to promote civility in society, student-athletes, coaches, and all others associated with these athetics programs and events should adhere to such fundamental values as respect, civility, honesty and responsibility. These values should be manifest not only in athletics participation, but also in the broad spectrum affecting the athletics program.
Now, we can debate all day and all night whether what happened at PSU falls under Bylaw 2.4. It's vague for a reason. The NCAA gives itself leeway to rule on issues that don't fall under the specific bylaws, with good reason. The PSU scandal is a black eye not only for PSU and the NCAA, but to the university presidents, especially those that work closely with PSU. Again, PSU chose to accept the sanctions to keep the univeristy out of the spotlight in this regard. They waived the right to their "due process."
have you lost your mind? Not NCAA's business? Rape of little boys in the football shower within ear-shot of JoePa is certainly in the NCAAs interest. By not coming forward in 1998 gave PSU an unfair recruiting advantage. Burn the school down..
the '98 incident to the campus police, who then did report it to the child services and special police unit locally. The DA, who subsequently disappeared, dropped the case.
What confounds we, is what happened next: you would think Penn State would totally cut Sandusky off, but instead Joe Pa negotiated him a better retirement package, and the school went through the unusual step of giving him emritus status.
I have felt all along that Sandusy or one of Sandusky's friends had enough on the football program, Joe Pa, and the administration, that he was able to force these concessions. Maybe complicit big donors just threatened to cut them off. But there is a hidden reason. This is not so simple as protecting the PR image of the program and an old buddy.
The head coach of PSU allowed his DC to rape young boys three doors down from his office for years. He allowed that DC access to the facilities in order to run yearly football camps. He allowed that DC to travel to bowl games, hang out in the press box with young boys all while he knew what the guy had done and/or what was doing.
The NCAA has the right to rule on the integrity of its members. This was done.
Yup. As I've said before, Paterno basically bought Sandusky an ice cream truck that kept running for at least 14 years
I don't really see why this is even being debated anymore.
University athletics departments used to facilitate child rape. University officials decided it was better (for the football team) to keep this hush hush than stop it. Child rape continues. Everyone caught. Football team and university punished.
I really can't see a credible counter argument, unless it's to say PSU got off too lightly.
The fake non-profit status of the NCAA is the only thing stopping your argument from being completely absurd. A private company can do whatever the hell it wants, within the bounds of the law. Even with the quasi-public status that comes with dealing with state universities, you are just plain wrong.
Every recruit or player to jump ship is a CLEAR testament that keeping this quiet was a competitive advantage... unless you would send your son to play for a culture that harbored and fucking empowered a serial pedophile. The myopic nature of your stance is just hard for me to fathom.
To address the 'please don't punish those poor kids' angle, tough shit. Michigan basketball suffered for less, a handful of other programs are suffering for less. Apply your logic to OSU. THE NCAA HAS NO BUSINESS HANDING OUT PUNISHMENT TO OSU! TRESSEL AND PRYOR ARE GONE! THEY SHOULD MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS! BOWL GAME OR BUST!
The PSU sounds like it is much more systemic and an infinite number of times more egregious than the OSU deal. Please defend OSU, USC, Miami, etc if you choose to work this angle.
Is it overstepping my bounds to tell you that your take on this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard? Go back to BWI.
bylaws on Ethics and the way they expect Universities to conduct themselves in the matter of criminal activities. The NCAA determined PSU violated these guidelines.
It was very much in the NCAA's purview to punish Penn State. End of Story.
There is a relevance to ethics still at PSU I hope...
They punished innocent kids when a player took money too. Why in the fuck am I still feeling the pain from the fab 5? They didn't even share kids to bang in the ass. It is a deterrent to keep other asshats with irrational thinking from doing the same. What don't you understand Private Pyle? Choke yourself numbnuts!.... Movie quote.
I can't remember when sanctions were brought against a school that didn't punish innocent players or coaches. Name of the game. The school gets it and if you are there - you get it to. But what kills me are these recruits who keep signing with the North Carolina's, Miami's, USC's, etc. what are these kids thinking when they know the schools will get disciplined yet they still sign on.
Let me understand your point...
Penn State is an NCAA institution that makes countless millions off its football program. That same *NCAA institution* enabled a child molester to continue molesting kids for god knows how long after information about his behavior while on the premises of an *NCAA institution* was first uncovered.
How is that not an NCAA matter?
As for your blog analogy, I can't even comprehend the logic behind that one. Let's say there was an organization that policed the internet. Call it the Department of Justice for that Golden Age of Comics feeling. And the DOJ gets wind an MGoBlog user, Blue in South Bend, is streaming Michigan games for free on its site. Regular users aren't aware of this activity, but Brian and Ace and Seth and even TomVH actively covered this fact up for the past five years. Finally, Blue's activity is uncovered and he's arrested. Brian, and the other higher-ups are also disgraced and forced to leave their positions. Meanwhile, MGoBlog isn't shut down but is restricted from posting certain content (post-game discussion) for four years and any user can sign up for any other Michigan blog without penalty or can stay with their full point totals, but simply will not be able to partake in post-game discussion. New administrators and moderators are hired and any money made from the blog goes into paying back those who were wronged.
How is that not completely fair?
(Sorry oh MGoBlog lords for taking thy name in vain, but somebody had to shoot down this argument)
I really don't know what to say. The cold, hard facts are that the University, athletic department, and football staff covered up a pedophile and allowed said pedophile to keep using the university as breeding ground for his victims.
The rest of your statement is opinion. It is your opinion that the NCAA overstepped it's bounds. It is your opiniuon that the football team didn't keep an advantage by covering up the pedophile. It is also your opinion that it s none of the NCAA's business. There are no "cold, hard, facts" there.
Let's first look at your "example." It is my opinion that it really isn't a representation of the situation. How is a Michigan coach banning every member of the blog from the internet like the NCAA punishing a University and allowing the players to transfer? My guess is that banning people from the internet is like punishing the players. The players aren't banned from playing football for life. In fact, they can still play for PSU if they choose to. They can even continue their education for free and not play football. They can play this year, say this sucks, and transfer. The fans can still pay for a ticket to go into Beaver Stadium to watch PSU play football. They can still watch football on TV. They can still go to a high school game. They aren't banned from football.
BTW - the punishment of innocent people happens all the time. My family lost, at one point, over $60,000 of equity in my house because of the actions of a few greedy individuals. We have a family of five stuck in a 1270 square foot house. We can't sell it because we are now over $20,000 underwater. Yet, I have a roof over my head and my family is much closer than we would be if we had a larger house. I guarentee that the workers of Enron didn't receive such choices for them when their employer was convicted of what they did. They were forced to look for a new job and their families may have been uprooted. Life is not fair. The NCAA has given the PSU players multiple ways out if they choose to.
Here is a better example of what went down. Let's say you are a CEO of a major company (the NCAA). One of your contract companies (PSU), one that was very good at what they did and made you a lot of money, was covering up one of their high level directors (Sandusky) pedophilia. That director wasn't even in the same division as the the one that worked for you. Would you keep the company working for you? I wouldn't.
Lastly, what is the purpose of a university? To educate and train individuals to make a better society. To give the population the skills to succeed as adults. It's not to provide football for the masses. It's not to provide football players a means to get to the NFL. These athletes are given a free education to PLAY A GAME! They can still play the game and get a free education out of it.
The dumbest analogy in the history of the Internet, and quite possibly, the world.
He's trying to be the George Lucas of Mgoblog. He lost me when he brought Red Berenson into an Mgoblog conspiracy. I didn't even read anything after that.
So when do they get kicked out of our conference? They will likely bring nothing to the table for the foreseeable future. Or beyond that.
I'm sure there are discussions going on as we speak. Statements might have been said that they will remain in the B1G by the Delaney' and some conference presidents recently but I've always figured that plans were being made. This should cement the move of them out of the conference.
Before this whole scandal, they were arguably the third strongest member of the conference, and brought up the average in nearly every category. After all of this, they're probably an average member at best, and they're only there because of the sheer quantity of fans. If that starts to drop off, they would bring no more to the table than Indiana or Purdue, but with a bad stigma. I don't like it.
I am ashamed and embarrassed that we are in the Big Ten. They are doing zero by allowing Pedo U to stay in our conference. I get it would mess up schedules, TV deals, and the Legends or whatever the f they called that stupid division. Let go and move on NOW!
Pedo U is a bit over the top and unnecessary.
but is it?
Is it just me, or does anyone else wonder if this unamed powerful individual played a role in helping Spanier get what seems like a plum Fed job dealing with security when he was under such a cloud of suspicion?
Exactly. I've been curious about that myself.
If that's even remotely true, Penn State won't have to worry about NCAA sanctions because the school is going to be absolutely obliterated by the federal government. Heck, they still might now even if nothing else does get found out
"The new investigation is also looking at if boys from the Second Mile charity were shared by Sandusky with other men."
After reading this sentence, among others, I realized that it in fact can and will get worse.
Even though this aspect of the nightmare in State College will be a criminal investigation, it somehow underscores exactly why it was totally appropriate for the NCAA to act within its own locus of control.
Going back to several posts above where someone decried the NCAA's action in this matter, it isn't just that a child rapist was allowed to do vile things with impunity on university property for over a decade, but that this person represented a university and its football program with his emeritus status in the department and at the school and had access to the facilities.
The NCAA had every right to effectively castrate this program through sanctions as it failed - perhaps most - importantly to uphold a bylaw which entrusts these representatives of the school to be teachers of young people in the midst of a total lack of institutional control. The school and the program failed to mirror the ethos expected in the bylaws.
Similarly, if Jerry Sandusky - on top of what he has already been convicted of doing - used this organization of his, designed to give troubled youths a "second chance" to further the abuse he was inflicting, then it is in a way like using university facilities, hiding behind the supposed integrity of a program or organization and using / abusing your own stature in the community to do terrible things. The NCAA can rightly deal with what happened on school property and among representatives of that program. The law will take care of the rest and already has in part.
A lot of people in the CiC have been speculating about this, namely the related to Penn State. I've heard people from the other football crazy schools in the B1G talk about how even if Sandusky was buddy-buddy with the legendary head coach, someone in risk management should have had alarm bells go off, gone around Paterno, and gotten the BoT to act. I was hoping this was just more bored breakroom talk but it makes sense. Sandusky did get way too much protection for being just an above average defensive coordinator. I wonder who else gets implicated in this. There have to be skeletons in the closet though, otherwise they would have jettisoned Sandusky in the wake of 1998 or 2002. The main reason you don't go to the authorities is a fear of what other skeletons they find in the closet when they come by to collect Sandusky.
Fear not, the Paterno's are determined to find the truth!
Be prepared this will only get worse. It's time to bring in their replacement.
(I mean what we know will get worse, obviously an end to the atrocities is better)
This is interesting...
I feel viscerally offended that people at PSU feel wronged over the Paterno issues and NCAA sanctions.
If this is true nuke them to Bolivian.
Fuck this institution. They have to get out of the B1G. Now. This is something Delaney can't pussyfoot around with. The longer they are here, the worse off it is for the rest of the conference. At this point, I don't care about collateral damage. This is beyond academics and athletics. That place needs to be reduced to rubble.
every other day something new comes out. Death penalty, and at this point a lot of people may get thrown into jail for quite a while.
(Please tell me they'll have the decency to retire that meme.)
If this is true it goes way beyond being fucked up. I can't in a million years comprehend how sick some bastards are.
As of right now this deals with a football coach & a few up and ups protecting him (as of this moment). Kicking PSU out of the BiG would punish dozens of other sports & research departments who did nothing wrong.
If they want to kick PSU football out, go right ahead, but don't punish those in the other sports/parts of the university who are already facing a tough road for crimes they didn't committ.
That being said: Nuke their football program
If the football program goes then everything else does as well
Punish the football program to death! What, too harsh?
I'm not sure you could come up with a punishment that should be considered "too harsh" at this point.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
You can be like President or Commissar or whatever, and I can be Vice Overlord. Always wanted that title.
Sounds like a plan to me.
We can have a Michigan Football Centric government. I now need to find a Secretary of Defense, Secretary of Offense and a Secretary of Special Teams.
earlier, and even tried looking into "most ridiculous dictator titles", but I now realize my true calling, thanks to you. I want to be in charge of the group of campus hostesses; I could definitely be happy with that job description for many, many years.
You shall be Justin, Planetary Lord of Campus Hostesses and Various Sorority Girls. You should be proud, it's a big position, with a lot of people working under you.
On a similar note, what will megangoblue do when she finds out? Is she going to MGoKick my MGoAss as well?
I offered her a position of campus hostess/various sorority girl, but for some reason she didn't go for it.
Craziness. I can't believe someone wouldn't want to be an important part of the perfect society we all will make.
...Then again I think my girlfriend would probably say no as well.
tag this as "greatful"?
But once we over the universe, we will make that a moderation option.
please don't call Jay Hopson for any reason.
That's starting to sound a bit too close to what we're trying to get away from that started this thread in the first place.
...show him the door.
(Now if it's a HER....)
Take a walk, play more chess.
I wonder if this will affect the PSU BoT meeting re: appealing/accepting the NCAA sanctions. The meeting is on Sunday
the BOT wanted sanctions to come swiftly and wanted to move forward quickly.
I heard something like this mentioned exactly one time right when the original accusations were flying, but then never heard another thing. I hoped it was an embellishment and totally not true. I still hope that.
Yeah, thanks dumbass. RedGreene posted that article a long time ago.
if Penn St doesnt like the way the NCAA does things, they can leave the NCAA. If the NCAA is an organization, if an organization as a whole doesn't like the one one of its members is acting, usually they reprimand that member. Its really quite simple.
edit: damn, i hit log in instead of reply and then forgot to hit reply after i logged in so where my comment ended up doesnt make any sense
When are they going to kick these guys out of the Big Ten? Now wouldn't be soon enough.
When this PSU thing first broke I gave JoePa the benefit of the doubt. I always had an image of him as someone who did things the right way, graduated players, didn't pay the players and coached at PSU because he loved his team and his school. When I went to a game at PSU the white out was awesome. Much more intimidating that playing at the Big House (at least before we fixed the acoustics). The fans at PSU were awesome too. Everyone we talked to there knew all about football and offered us beer (we were late-30's at the time) and wished us good luck on the game. Those fans thought that JoePa was a good guy too. They had no way of knowing what was going on.
How does Michigan avoid becoming a PSU, OSU or even an SMU? I think Hoke, Mattison and Borges are men of integrity, but you never know when a Chris Weber is going to take money, or some assistant coach is going to do something wrong. I don't ever want to have to say that I love Michigan, except for that whole pedophillia ring, or the kids who's scholarships we pulled, or the players we were paying, etc. What can you do beyond big brotheresque surveillance?
That's all PSU needed to do to avoid becoming PSU.