Desmond: Borges third highest paid coordinator (assume refer to OC)
he was taking less money so that he could compensate his staff better. Which seemed revolutionary. I knew Mattison was being paid well, but when you put Borges compensation in that perspective, he is clearly being overpaid.
Just landed in Miami and heard Michigan won. All I want to know is did they outcoach the opposition?
— Desmond Howard (@DesmondHoward) November 17, 2013
No, Desmond, he didn't. But on the bright side, the team can execute personnel change on the fly for game tying FGs!
I'm convinced of it.
Ever since Brian change the banner to read "I have never read MGOBLOG - Chris Perry", the team has gone down the pooper. He needs to find something different to change our Mojo.
The picture of Devin debuting #98 at night vs. ND is sick. Not sure why we won't use that.
This team has been bad. So maybe it's me
he should change the offensive coordinator.
I am Desmond Howard.
I doubt it.
I really wish I didn't know this. His offense is more glaring than RR's defenses. If Hoke doesn't fire him at season's end, he'll be on the hot seat all of next season.
Offense is nowhere near as anemic as RR's defenses or special teams and if you truly believe what you said you haven't watched then or now.
Offensive FEI rankings under Borges/Hoke:
- 2011: 9
- 2012: 25
- 2013; 57
Defensive FEI rankings under Rodriguez:
- 2008: 44
- 2009: 60
- 2010: 109
That's 109th out of 120, adjusted for tempo and strength of schedule etc. Right between #108 1-10 Akron and #110 and winless San Jose State.
we know numbers can lie. this team is averaging like 40 points a game and we know they are not that good of an offense
When you can't make a first down on third and whatever until OT, against a sub-par defense, it tells you all you need to know about average point per game.
I'd say 57 out of 120 isn't really that good of an offense; it's slightly worse than RR's best defense. Those numbers seem about right to me.
As a slight counter, those defensive squads never had the talent that Borges inherited from RR. I mean, Denard Robinson was basically coming off an All-American season as a sophomore, and only now are we seeing the recruiting issues on offense that plagued RR when he showed up. I will say that the offense is holistically better than those defenses, but to say that we shouldn't see a change because the offense is not the worst in the history of UM football (like those defenses were) is foolish.
We definitely should not be content with an offense that has scored one TD in regulation in three games, but still . . . nothing compares to the debacle that was the 2010 defense. That was largely the same group of players that ranked in the top 20 nationally a season later, and yet it was an absolute sieve. It's painful to think that we pretty much wasted the first three seasons of one of our best defensive tackles in school history (Mike Martin). It's mind-boggling in retrospect that a front seven that included Martin, Van Bergen, Mouton and Demens, among others, was totally run over all season.
The offensive ranking is sure to keep dropping over the next 3 games.
We could go without a first down the rest of the season and the ranking wouldn't drop to 109.
I'm not sure how it handles overtime (it says it "filters" certain drives, like clock kills), but my strong guess is we're now in the 60s. Hopefully we do better against Iowa.
And while all that is interesting, it almost doesn't matter, as things can change greatly with in one season. UM's offense was awesome against CMU, ND and Indiana -- but after watching UM's "offense" these past three games, it seems like those earlier games existed in a bizzaro-land universe, even though they were this season.
...are treated like any other drive. They just start with very good field position so the expected result is better than most drives.
Wrong. I said "more glaring." Where did I say better or worse? Quit putting words in people's mouths and then jumping to assumptions about how much Michigan football different posters watch.
It doesn't really matter anyway. The fact that they're comparable means we have a shitty offense.
never had anywhere near the third-best paid DC in D-1 football, either. If you factor for compensation, you get Borgerg.
Come on, man. Complaining about a bad offense is one thing. Saying something stupid like that is ridiculous.
Which element of my post was "stupid" exactly?
I really wish I didn't know this.
If you want him out (it sounds like you do), you should be encouraged by this. It shows that we're willing to pay top dollar for our coordinators. The flip side of that is increased accountability. If we were paying him chump change, he'd probably be safer.
You're right. It is actually a blessing in disguise.
Going to go into work on monday with "You're paid to figure this out" as my new battle cry. Thanks, Des!
Seems like to me we did a little better job yesterday of getting rid of the ball more quickly. The oline play looked spotty for the most part but did seem to have flashes of improved play. However, we got lucky that northwesterns db's dropped 4 or 5 gimme int's.
I am not sure if you can fault al borgess for all of out offensive woe's. Some of the linemans weeknesses have to be blamed on coaching but I'm guessing it's more on funk. Either way, borgess is here to stay for at least another year. It'll be interesting to see how the development of our oline next year affects play calling and the following year how speight or Morris under changes things again.
I feel like we are at the bottom of our development and our ceiling can be really high. The question is, how do we knock a team like Ohio off the top of the mountain. Hopefully Mattison has the answer.
Yeah, I thought the gameplan was solid - better than the Nebraska one. Actually, most of the time I think Borges's gameplans have been decent. Where he's struggled has been more in the area of in-game adjustments. We'll show some promise early on but then when the opposing D adjusts, he struggles to counterpunch.
That, and short-yardage playcalling. Ugh. It's time to try some PA passing on 3rd and short.
I agree. He's been a bit stubborn on trying to run the ball when it's not even remotely close to working.
Really surprised as bad as the line is playing that Desmond is being so outspoken about the coaching. Or maybe it's because he knows from inside sources that the coaching is the problem. Hard to say without having some sort of inside knowledge. Most experts say it's EXTREMELY difficult to come in and play oline as a true or redshirt freshem. So...who do we blame this on? Coaching? Maybe youth? Probably both.
It's definitely curious that Desmond is so outspoken. That's not normal behavior from him or really any ex-Michigan guy (especially now that the head coach is again from "the family"). There may be something at play here.
Desmond has been encouraged to take the Dan Dakich career path? Controversy is good for ratings and they like it when their guys stir the pot on line.
He called Coach Rod Cherry Coke. Desmond speaks his mind. Notice, he didn't call for him to be fired, but he wants to see a better offense. Not unreasonable at all.
I feel like people do not understand that there is more than 1 level of bad. There's the level of bad where you only get 139 yards against a decent run defense (Not against a crappy team like Northwestern though). That level of bad can maybe be explained by youth and inexperience.
Then there's the level of bad where you get -21 yards against one of the worst run defenses in the country... and -48 yards against ANYONE. That level of bad can not be explained by youth. We do not have the youngest line yet teams with younger lines manage to not take that big a dump on the field. The level of ineptitude we have seen is not explainable just by the line, at all.
It is an indictment on Borges inability to function as an OC who doesn't tip the defense to the play call.
-21 yards and -48 yards. -21 yards and -48 yards. And only 139 yards against a 0-6 (B1G) Northwestern team. Youth does not exonerate that paltry perfomance. There is a bigger issue here. Not to mention having your main back go 27 for 27 against Penn State who isn't exactly a powerhouse right now.
There's hundreds of people here that could do the job better for free and I'm sure they'd have no trouble convincing Hoke and Brandon of that fact if they could ever get an interview.
Except it's not public money technically.
It's not public money. Just because Michigan is a public school does not mean that Hoke & Co. are paid by tax payer dollars. The Athletic Department has it's own budget that it builds via ticket sales and donations.
0% of my paycheck is going into the coaches' pockets.
This board is sarcasm-proof.
I can get the team to run for negative yards for half of what they are paying Borges.
Borges needs to go but Hoke and mattison better figure out a way to coach the position they claim to know so much about.. our dline is horrific.. do people think it is a severe lack of talent or is it all coaching? Clark is our best lineman but he was just a 3 star.. will they get better with upgraded talent?
Our d line was stellar this past game and the young guys have been showing improvement week to week. What are you talking about?
Our starters have not really shown much improvement this year. We still struggle to get pressure on the QB consistently.
I dunno, players who look better to me now than in game one: Washington, Black, Clark, Wormley, and Henry. I can't think of one I think looks worse
I get ur point but we still cannon get sacks.. it is becoming pathetic.. especially against dogshit teams.. qbs have field days against us.. simien had two incompletions going into the 4th that is pathetic..mattison continues to have dbs playing 15 yards off wr.. raymon should of had 2 pick sixes if they played press coverage yesterday.. they need to play better.. we are just lucky nw sucks ass
They held Northwestern to 9 points before OT. I thought they played rather well.
At least by average yards allowed, that defensive line is at the front of a Top 20 defense and a Top 10 rushing defense, so I am not exactly sure what you mean. Actually, by the numbers, it has gotten better over the past few weeks. The pass defense has lopped 8 yards off of its average in the last week alone, so it is getting better two (even if #64 in Division I isn't all that great).
Yeah, our D-line is pretty good, but not great.
The dline I thought played decent. Not dominant by any means...but decent.
Highest in the Big Ten, but significantly behind the 2 ahead of him. Morris makes like, 1.3 million a year, and a name I'm sure everyone is familiar with, or will be if Borges does get canned. Cam Cameron makes 1.1 million. They are the top 2 paid assistants in College FB, with maybe 2 more that make over a million a year, I think Chavis and Smart.
Sunseri was paid $800K by Tennessee and I think they are still paying him as DC. Georgia's DC gets $850 a year and I will have to check Auburn but last year Van Gorder got $850 to match Kirby Smart at the time.
I guess OC do not get paid as much because so many HC are offense guys but I don't know.
Mediocrity is pathetic
So are fair weather fans.
add more cheese.
it doesn't matter what the question is.
Mediocrity may be pathetic but its sure isn't cheap.
Yup. People forget. Rich Rod was horrible working with "someone else's players".
I think the criticism is justified on Borges and Funk but when you look at the players they are currently working with, the harshness might be a little undeserved.
Usually I think using the word 'unacceptable' in conjunction with describing the performance of a college football team is ridiculous, but there is one thing I actually find unacceptable: players or units getting worse over the course of a season. Look at the offensive line. I think it has gotten worse and more confused basically every week. Fitz gets no better at blocking. Devin has regressed massively. Now contrast this with Mattison's D. I feel like I see more out of those guys every week at most positions. That's how it needs to be, no questions asked. College players are basically all at a stage of development where they should all be improving markedly week to week, and Borges can't get that done.
Have you considered that Fitz and Devin are just really playing poorly? I like them both, but the facts are that Devin has made terrible decisions in almost every game he has started at QB and last night he stared down a single receiver on every throw. NW should have had about 4 picks last night. Fitz is slower than the 2 freshmen at hitting the hole, goes down on first contact, and cannot pass block at all. You can try to blame the coaches for not "coaching 'em up" but at some point the players have to just MAKE PLAYS.
I saw him clearly look off his primary and throw to his secondary receiver one time yesterday.
I liked the focus on shorter passes throughout the game and the use of more roll-outs for Gardner, and I hope this continues for the rest of the games this year and it was not just due to such poor weather.
There were a few drops that are not typical from Gallon especially that should go away, but Gardner still needs to be coached to not lock on to a receiver (although given 14 sacks in two games...hard to blame him for trying to get rid of the ball quickly) as an equal number could have easily been pick sixes.
There was also still an inordinate focus on play-action passing, and head-scratching calls like the 4th down run by Gardner with no option to pitch/throw/etc. I just think Borges will revert to his comfort zone of relying on 15yd plus PA double-move primary option passes, so it will be interesting to see what happens vs. Iowa.
Come on now, you don't think they have mentioned he shouldn't lock into a one receiver? People forget, DG is still young in terms of starting QB experience and even younger in terms of spending his Ann Arbor time developing under one system.
According to this article he makes a base salary of $650k plus 100k for every year he remains the OC at Michigan. Basically he's making the same as Mattison...yeahhh we're grossly overpaying for his services. In other news, he must have a sick agent....
For that kind of money, we can upgrade for sure.
Then he might be the most overpaid coach in the entire country.
Every coach ahead of Brady Hoke has won national championships or multiples leagues titles. I have no problem paying at that level but I really think you have to earn it.
"... something that turns your head like 11-1 at bowling green"
"I'm not sure what Brady did at SDSU and Ball State..."
Ball State (that Ball State) was 12-0 in Brady Hoke's last season heading into their conference championship game, and he was the first coach to guide them to consecutive bowl appearances. That doesn't make him a top-seven coach, but he fulfills the exact criteria that you're claiming he doesn't. And, last I checked, he made "only" $3 million last year, less than Kirk Ferentz.
He was clearly referring to Urban Meyer. Meyer took a 2-9 Bowling Green team, and immediately turned it around, going 8-3 in year one and 9-3 in year two.
Both of his years at Utah, he won the conference title and the bowl game, going undefeated in year two (and taking Utah to a top 5 ranking).
Hoke has never won a conference title, even in the MAC or WMC. He inherited a Ball State team that went 6-6 under Bill Lynch, and spend the next four years below .500. His fifth year they went 7-6. Lightning struck in year six, but even then, Hoke's ranked Ball State team was soundly beaten by Turner Gill's team in the MAC championship.
We hired a .500 coach with no conference titles to his name (and he still does not). He is a good recruiter, helped reunited the fanbase, and will always be incredibly dependent on having excellent coordinators underneath him if his teams are going to succeed. We do not have an excellent offensive coaching staff, including OC.
That is what I don't get. Hoke has been promoted above his ability and people act like he is a great hire. Sometimes you get lucky with players or the schedule or whatever. That is why you have to be careful about a 1 season boost and then a fall back to earth.
Take Gene Chizik for instance.
... and I don't want to be pedantic, but "Hoke doesn't fulfill the criteria: He was clearly referring to Urban Meyer" is too vague to capture either what I was arguing or what the OP said. He wasn't arguing that Hoke's body of work prior to being hired failed to equal Meyer's prior to his tenure at Florida. [No one disputes that they weren't equal, nor does anyone dispute that an evidentlyly awesome coach was unavailable for hire at the end of 2010.] The OP said that Hoke hadn't done anything of note or head-turning and then offered an 11-1 season at BGSU as an example of a season that would be remarkable ("or a 12-0 season at Utah"). I was simply noting that Hoke's last season at Ball State was equivalent to the hypothetical Bowling Green season the OP constructed. And, of course, Meyer never went 11-1 at BGSU. Then he tried to imply that Hoke was vastly overpaid, and claimed that he was given a contract of $4.1 million a year for his previous mediocrity; maybe he makes that much this year, but he made $2 million his first year. I could be wrong about this--and if so, I apologize--but I thought the OP was deliberately skewing the facts to stir the pot.
EDIT: Sorry, meant to be referring to newtopos, and the original post that started this has been removed.
Per USA Today, Brady Hoke salary is 4.1 M, with some stupid automatic raise of 550 k for staying around. Really, Bonus for BCS games, Big Ten Championship, etc is great. Good base salary and bonus for production makes sense but a raise because you stay being the coach at Michigan is ridiculous while my tickets go up and the home games on every other season are just lousy.
If Borges is under contract and gets fired, I would guess that would make him the highest paid unemployed OC in the country.
I hope they are paying him in peanuts if he is third highest paid.
I may not like things Borges does sometimes, but he has been the OC that won us a BCS game, and this year with what looks to be one of the worst offensive lines ever assembled...really our line would be better with lesbian lax players, atleast they know how to stop penetration, and Borges has still got us to 7 wins with this line.
He is directly responsible for the performance of the o line. His job isn't to just draw circles and lines on a chalk board.
yes all of it - line, pass blocking of RBs, calling plays that require RBs to pass block, QB play
Desmond was pissed. After he went off on Borges saying he should be able to scheme better when he is getting paid that much, the rest of the Gameday panel was speechless. It was great.
Duplicate thread, but who's counting?
Borges has been bad, but Gardner is worse. People need to realize we are going nowhere with him as our quarterback. The only thing i can think of is that he looks a lot better in practice but once the games start he panicks and makes terrible decisions.
Is that acceptable when Garnder has so much talent? He is big, strong, fast, very good arm and has shown he can play quarterback.
The problem I have with your comment is I can almost picture him playing at alabama, ohio state, lsu, and a host of other schools and being a very very good quarterback.
Good decision making comes from experience. Let's see here ... Based on games played at QB he is a RS Fr, he played WR for a lot of last year, an he has a young o-line right now making it hard to stay / step up in the pocket. I can only see him improving this year and next since he has the smarts, ability, speed, etc to be a playmaker right now.
But, you're right, let's write him off along with the o-line, Borges, Hoke, Brandon, etc. We just aren't Michigan any more.