landing spot. will be interesting to see how he does.
Derrick Green reportedly down to two
I hope it's not true his mother is pushing UT because of distance - moms can have a lot of influence over these things.
that committed to Cal(?) without them offering him, this was my favorite recruiting WTF.
Who faked a news conference in 2008 and took a couple years off and signed with a Division II school......in 2012, at 22 years old.
He still has two years left of eligibility.
You gon' learn today!!!!
Or the kicked who committed to us only because he thought Harbaugh was coming...
Didn't Derrick's mom absolutely love Hoke?
Hoke makes mothers melt. This is fact.
I wonder what the "Hoke can't close the deal" crowd will say when/if we land Green?
It happens..they'll just remind us of all the ones he didn't get.
all the skill players we've wanted to. But shouldn't we cut Hoke & co. some slack and see how York, Dukes, Jones, Darboh, Chesson, Deveon Smith do at the collegiate level before saying we can't land elite skill players? These coaches don't look at Rivals to see whom they should recruit. Mike Hart was a 3*. But does that mean he was doomed to a career of mediocrity from the outset? absolutely not.
Jake Long was a 4* and Henne a 5*. All three were all-time greats. Agreed that stars do not translate always (or even usually) into collegiate performance.
Let's be real here - the recruits with higher rankings usually have those rankings because they have a higher probablity of being a star (pun) as opposed to the lower ranked recruits.
I find it funny to look at every years draft and see how many 2 and 3 stars were drafted as high as the 1st round, but then I look at the 5 stars and see that it's typical most (95%) 5 star recruit that made it through college ball will get drafted somewhere.
As opposed to 4 and 5 star players, 2 and 3 star players make up just as much or slightly more of the nfl draft. However there are so many more of them it's what we'd expect.
But when you're applying that rule to individuals, and those individuals need to fit a system, its just one measure. So, while its a great tool, its not the end all.
The coaches are not going to get everyone they want, but its a puzzle, and they're looking for the pieces that fit THEIR plan..not ours. If a kid doesn't want to come here, and its someone the coaches have targeted, then its not a good fit for both parties. So, I really hope Green feels Michigan is the right fit for him, but if he doesn't, he shouldn't come here. That part is not rocket science.
NO WAY!!!! I guess that does it then, we should just recruit 3 stars.
They do not always translate in any specific case, but if you look what teams are annually near to the top of the recruiting rankings, these are also the teams that are ranked high in the polls as well. That's not a coincidence. I'm sure if some of the MGoStatisticians around here were to start digging, you'd find strong correlation between the star rating of a team's recruiting classes and their rating in the polls.
If we don't?
That Green fell right into our lap. With Miami's sanctions, the train wreck that is Auburn, coaching change at Tennessee, etc...... Mark Dantonio could have recruited this kid to Michigan. I'll be ecstatic when we land him but it doesn't say much about Hoke's recruiting ability, either way, if we do.
If the point of recruiting is to get good players, and Michigan gets good players, then Hoke deserves credit for recruiting those players.
Micihigan's Rivals ranking under Hoke
2011 - 21 (salvaged over the span of 3 weeks) - 3rd best in B1G
2012 - 7 - 2nd best in B1G
2013 - 5 (currently) - Best class in B1G
Yeah, you're right, Hoke sucks at recruiting.
Everyone is applying their own standard to the "evaluation" of recruiting:
Is the #5 class the standard? #4 with key playmakers? #7 with a dominant line? Finish higher ranked than OSU and ND?
I would offer the following: As long as UM has talent to win 10+ games and the recruiting class is ranked top 10, then our recruiting is an A. Win 10+ and top 3 class, then A+. (Yep, grading staffs on recruitingtia a combination of 2-3 years).
I think it would be a great thread to debate the grading scale ...
If we lose him to Butch Jones's offense I'll burn this mother down.
If this is true, saying it out loud tastes almost as good as my Jameson.
This isn't the first time someone has reported Green's mother preferring he stay south. I hope the coaches can over come her reservation, if it does exist.
Nice, very nice.
Seems to me that while we've been offering wide receivers, linebackers, dbs, etc., we haven't been offering running backs. Could that be a tipoff?
I swear I remember early in the HS football season, Green saying that he was going to announce in like November. Maybe the coaching changes at some of his top schools delayed things. Has anyone heard and rumors of if he may announce at the All-American game or if there is no time schedule on the table.
I haven't heard a time table, but signing day is in 6 weeks with Christmas and NYD in between, so the window isn't very big anyway.
Their OL recruiting the last couple years has been the exact opposite of ours. They brought in zero (0) OL recruits in 2012, and currently have 3 in 2013, one 4 star and two 3 stars, one of which is Dan Skipper. Maybe Hoke wants Skipper so that Green will see he won't have anyone to run behind at UT.
Yeah, not sure how much stock into this. The guy who reported it only has 200ish followers.
He's legit. Local UT football reporter that is pretty well respected.
Local UT reporter wanting more attention and followers.
Thank you he who must not be named.
Those damn mothers... Gotta love em
As an employee of the Vol network owned by UT, Hubbs would seem bound by the same recruiting silence as any other AD employee. I don't care that he did, but the NCAA has some Draconian rules.
Just consider the source - he is a paid cheerleader for UT. We probably should rely on Farrell ...
There's a reason you don't here guys like Doug Karsch talk about specific recruits, just recruiting at large, even if they have other jobs.
i ask because i honestly don't know any better but i looked at dead period and quiet period rules and i didn't see anything regarding statements from the university or anything like that as being a rules violation, only against contact beyond "hello" to recruits. what am i missing as far as any rules being broken?
NCAA rules prohibit coaches, university players and school officials from any public comments about a recruit or their recruiting situation (ie, can't praise a HS coach in a press conf).
Thus the silence on almost anything related to recruiting by coaches until NSD when they'll give a blurb about individual kids.
Have to rely on recruits, their circle of influence and recruiting pundits for news until NSD.
from what Dawson's whispering...that's some really sweet, sweet nothings...
you really went there. I feel dirty.
I also have no idea what that means, but I'm 100% sure it means Green is coming to Michigan.
COME AT ME, LSAT LOGIC GAMES. They're pretty much the same thing, right?
Was not part of your LSAT prep. Unless of course you were also being sarcastic, in which case, never mind.
It all depends on what "means" means.
It makes sense if you don't think about it.
it means "real recongize real"
Hey pal come to Michigan with me so we can have a fun and exciting time, while we further our education and win championships for the maize and blue faithful.
Dang it. I thought he was saying that he was in a lot of pain and he wanted to know if anyone could help him. I guess I don't speak jive.
Sounds like Laquon's coming here after all and Dawson already knows what classes he's going to take next year
At least that's what I think he's saying
My first thought when reading this was when did Utah get in the picture. Tennessee makes a lot more sense. Honestly on second thought I would rather go to Utah.
Shut up hova
Whateva... It's tha Rock
If Dawson or every lineman is in his ear or whether UT has zero lineman, this choice is going to lean on where his mother wants him to be, this is the reason why he hasn't committed. Hoke has had the full court press on him since July. Hoke doesn't have to convince Derrick, he's gotta make his family feel comfortable...this of course is all through the grapevine.
It means, come on down Mr. Green.
Yea. I'm sure everyone else is wrong and you're right.
Well to be fair he DID watch Green's film........
1) You're new here
2) Armchair talent scouting
3) Poor grammar
If you don't like how the board works, feel free to leave.
EDIT: 4) bitching about being negged
Mods? Please don't let this fly.
Give the guy a break. Just because he's new doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion. Lots of us say what we think about recruits, and none of us are pro scouts. He said it was his opinion, and he's entitled to that.
I've watched both of their films, and I like Smith better, too. He's just as big, less fast, but runs better. I know I don't agree with Rivals. Sue me.
The reason Green is rated higher is because he's faster. You see flashes of it in his tape. But, I really enjoy watching smith run and saying "get off me" over and over again.
You just nailed it. Smith is an exceptional, blue chip back. Top 10 running back. Many, including me, like his film better.
BUT there are 2 main things why Green is ranked higher -
1) ceiling. He may be a slight step down as a power runner compared to Smith, but Green can take it to the house. Tough to teach speed.
2) Green plays against better competition, so adjusting the film to the competition, is Greens film then as impressive? More impressive? I don't know.
No need for the whole rubbing his dick thing was my point. Have an opinion, by all means, but there's no need for that. Can't we all discuss our opinions without acting like we're five? Or using terms I'd expect to find on espn or mlive, but not here.
You guys sure are being super sensitive that this guy doesn't think Green is the #1 back in the country.
edit - Not sure why it shows in response to WolvinLA
This isn't where I parked my car...
Rivals and scout rank Green as a 5 star. Espn has him as a top 50 player and the newer 24/7 has him as a top 150 player. All 4 of these sites offer at least some pros and cons for Green as a running back justifying their ranking of him.
You, as a new poster on this blog, think he is a high 3 star and offer no insightful thoughts on why you think so other than just stating it as your opinion. People are labeling you as a troll not because you aren't sucking Greens dick, but because we think your evaluation of talent sucks...well...you know.
1. You don't need a Harvard education to use high school grammar. Which would be forgivable, if
2. You didn't use phrases like "rub this kid's dick." No one wants to know why you're thinking about rubbing teenage boys dicks.
3. It's not a public blog. Your tax dollars didn't go to it. It's Brian's blog. He set up a system where some (minor) standards can be upheld. If he wanted complete freedom he'd allow anything, not have any voting, and no mods. Some would like that. They can start their own blogs.
4. Complaining about it, particularly as a new guy, is never going to endear people to you or your opinion.
I beleave you fergot a opostrofee after the s in boy to show posetion.
Heaven forbid someone uses poor grammar on a blog.
You forgot, fergodsakes# or #fergodsakes (I guess it goes without saying I'm a twitter noob)
I love how people try to compare these two solely based on film. Did it occur to you that they may be playing different levels of competition?
About your prognosis of Green, I do think Smith will be better than most people think. If fitz cannot return right away next season, smith could be the starter.
Hi Matt Millen.
Free for anyone to use, when computer scouts come out.
He is a great running back with great power and you can think what you want but at the end of the day he has 30 offers all from highly regarded NCAA schools like Alabama and USC! If he were as bad as your calling him he would not hold these offers!
Tulsa? I sure hope what everyone is saying about Green's mom is loving Hoke is true.
Shavodrick Beaver going to Tulsa resulted in Denard Robinson coming to Michigan. That didn't work out so badly for us.
Come to Michigan
All you guys. Would be an absolute
If he picked anywhere else.
Shocker reference! This type of quality interweb entertainment can only be found on MGoBlog.
I'm saying hes all yours, and all I get is flamebait? Come on guys, have some kind of sense of humour.
If we lose out to that tire fire of a program I'm gonna be really bummed.
We can either buy his mother a house close by or pay for her trips to the games. I am sure the NCAA wouldn't mind....problem solved
Or, you can have what's in the box!
It's Gwyneth Paltrow's head.
O-M-G way to ruin it for all of us who haven't seen Se7en yet!
SPOLIER #2: Kevin Spacey is Keyser Söze
oMg way to ruin it for those of us who didn't know that was a se7en reference!
No way. It's Marcellus' Wallace's soul.
Wait... that's in the briefcase. Never mind. Carry on.
Tremendous is saying Derrick Green says these reports aren't true.
Farrell literally just spent 4 days with Green on tour, so I'm sure his source (Derrick Green) is better than the sources of this UT hack
According to Tremendous, Green said that him being down to two is not true. Whether Green is telling the truth or keeping things close as his style, I am going to wait until Green announces to assume anything.
I won't claim in the slightest that I can evaluate film...but there must be something there that leads the recruiting agencies to agree he is a top 5 rb. I realize they can be wrong often but this would be a pretty big miss on their part.
ESPN: 5th RB
Scout: 2nd RB
Rivals: 1st RB
in 2012, (according to rivals)
#1: J. Gray 683 yards
#2: Yeldon 1000 yards
#3 T. Williams 335 yards
#4 m. pender missed season due to injury
#5 T. Gurley 1260 yards
#6 R. Shell 562 yards
At least for that year none of the rivals backs seemed like busts and all contributed positively to their teams, provided they were healthy.
Provided they were healthy AND contributed as true freshmen.
I watched Deveon live for 2 yrs..and i will say that the 1-2 punch of Smith and Green would be enough to wear down a good defense..I love Green and the burst he has..and Smith has balance that leaves tacklers shaking their heads.
Out of respect for Tremendous and his blog, don't post word for word what he says. I didn't reply to you with this in hope that you'll edit it and maybe put a link up.
edit - Thanks. He deserves the views for all of his hard work too.
Took down the wording, but would always link any site quoted, especially his.
It's all good. I'm just assuming he gets paid more for advertisements with the more views he gets ,and he does a TREMENDOUS job, so he deserves it.
Green is Blue.
would be "Green is the new Blue"
Hmmm, a smashmouth, pro-style offense which emphasizes running the ball, at a school which is bringing in some of the best offensive linemen in the country, versus a no-huddle spread attack which will emphasize the pass. At a school which hasn't tasted relevance since Peyton Manning was there.
Nothing's over until its over, and the sway parents have counts for something, but I like Michigan's odds.
they won a title right after us, and were on course to smash Ohio State in the ship in 2002 I think?
I don't think they've been to a bcs game since they won the title in 1998
That was in 2001. They were #2 in the country going into the SEC championship game against #21 LSU, and lost. The team they smashed was Michigan in the Citrus Bowl on 1-1-2002.
Tennessee had a 8-5 record in 2002.
I really want him
That is all.
The only reason I even tried getting a hold of Derrick is because the report seemed weird to begin with; he's said multiple times that his mother is going to move to whatever city he plays football in, so I don't see distance or location as a factor at all.
I know nobody likes Farrell, but he's definitely in tune to what's going on with Green and I'd listen to what he reports before I'd listen to what looks like a Tennessee fan reporting something like that.
That's not saying Tennessee isn't a possibility or that he's favoring Michigan instead; he's been quiet for a while and the fact he hasn't chosen is peculiar, but he's maintained that he was going to take his time and not rush a decision, so there's that too.
"He's said multiple times that his mother is going to move to whatever city he plays football in, so I don't see distance or location as a factor at all."
No offense, but I don't see the connection between the premise and your conclusion. If his mother is going to move with him, then it seems like she might have an even stronger opinion on where he goes to school. After all, if the economy is poor, she doesn't like the weather, etc., then she may suggest a location that is more amenable to her situation. I'm not saying that Ann Arbor wouldn't fit her profile, but if there are better professional opportunities in Knoxville, if family's closer at Auburn, if it's just too darn cold in Ann Arbor, that could very well have an effect on their decision.
The plan has been for him to choose the school he likes and that his mother would follow him to wherever he goes. I think it's more of a "you choose where EDIT: you want to go and I'll come live in that town so I can watch you on Saturdays" type thing. He's alluded a few times to education and that being the major factor his mother has pushed in regards to where he should go, not distance.
I believe (I may be wrong) that she's self employed and that's part of the reason why it can even work out for her to move where he goes.
I can understand where it didn't make a ton of sense, but I wrote it in a rush on my way out the door this morning.
Is it just me or does that sound weird that his mother is going to follow him to college?
What does she do for a living that she can just move anywhere she wants and find a job...?
where one of the best running backs currently in the NFL had to suffer through losing record after losing record just to go undrafted.
This line of thinking is always hilarious to me, as if Tennessee couldn't say something equally detrimental to Michigan.
Who exactly has Michigan produced in recent years? *crickets*
You must be thinking of the immortal Carlos Brown, Brandon Minor, Mike Hart... Chris Perry was a first round pick and then did zilch in the NFL. You have to go back more than a decade to find a Michigan running back with even a little bit of NFL success, in the form of Anthony Thomas.
Since the time of Anthony Thomas, Tennessee has produced Travis Henry (who had a decent NFL career and lots of kids), Jamal Lewis (a former 2,000 yards rusher), and Arian Foster.
If I'm basing my school choice purely on running backs sent to the NFL recently, my choice is Tennessee. No questions asked, it's Tennessee.
You can't exclude Perry. He was a Doak Walker winner, first round draft pick, and then had injury issues in the NFL. When the convo is about schools producing NFL talent, Chris Perry needs to be included.
Also, it's not really Michigan's fault they had Mike Hart for four years who just isn't an NFL style back, but he still got drafted and played for the Colts for a few years.
I am excluding Perry and can, because I'm talking about players who had success in the NFL. He did not...unless you count 177 career carries for 606 yards and 2 touchdowns as NFL success.
I'm not blaming Michigan for having Hart. You're kind of missing the point.
The point is that if you're selling recent NFL success to Green (or any other high school back), then Tennessee wins. You're arguing it for no apparent reason. This is not my opinion. This is fact.
OK, but if you're selling NFL success, you're selling the wrong thing, because no college can make a player do well once they're in the NFL. What you can sell is getting them there, which Michigan can clearly do. Hell, Foster was a good player at UT and didn't get drafted, needed to do it all on his own to make it in the NFL, so he may as well have gone to Ferris St.
Tennessee had big talent in Arian Foster, but couldn't get him drafted. That should not be a selling point for UT.
Even if you remove Foster, Tennessee still has #5 overall pick Jamal Lewis, #58 overall pick Travis Henry, #59 overall pick Montario Hardesty, #119 overall pick Travis Stephens, and #182 overall pick Cedric Houston.
Michigan has #26 overall pick Chris Perry and #202 overall pick Mike Hart, neither of whom did anything in the NFL.
There's no version of comparing running backs that comes out in favor of Michigan.
As for Arian Foster, the reality is that he's not that great of a running back. He is putting up decent yardage totals, but his YPC isn't impressive. His best season was 2010, when he ran for 1,616 yards but averaged just 4.9 yards per carry. He got all those yards because they fed the ball to him 327 times. On a YPC basis, Michael Vick, Jamaal Charles, Brandon Jacobs, Chris Ivory, LeSean McCoy, Darren McFadden, and LeGarrette Blount were all superior to him. This year he is #27 in yards per carry. This is, of course, tangential to the original point, but Arian Foster is not an otherworldly talent who was overlooked or ruined by Tennessee. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry at Tennessee, which is actually better than his career average in the NFL (4.5), and he didn't do himself any favors in the run-up to the NFL Draft.
But hey, I guess we can keep grasping at straws to try to convince ourselves that Michigan is unquestionably superior to every other school in every way possible...
Can we include #38 pick Anthony Thomas in 2001? How about #8 pick Tshimanga Biakabutuka or #17 Tyrone Wheatley? Where is the imaginary cut off line? #153 Chris Howard? I'd be using him as a recruiting tool example...
Sure Tennessee has had some more high end guys and talent. But going to numbers over quality is silly, because the numbers aren't as bad as you make them, and it doesn't take into account situations like having guys who started for 3 or 4 years.
(Why is the site timing out so much today?)
1. I had already mentioned Anthony Thomas above, which is why I didn't mention him again.
2. The reason I'm using players from about the last decade or so is that Derrick Green and other class of 2013 running backs probably don't care about the early 1990s, because they weren't even born then. Green was born after Wheatley was already in the NFL and around the same time that Biakabutuka left school. So the "imaginary" cutoff line is, like, around the time when today's recruits might have perhaps become aware of football.
I'm not saying Michigan is unquestionably superior to every other school, just that this isn't an area where Tennessee is noticeably better than Michigan. When you take out the RR years (since that has no real impact on what Michigan is/was after/before him) every starting RB Michigan has had for the last 20 years has been drafted by the NFL.
You're making it seem like Tennessee is this great RB school and MIchigan has never had a great running back. They have Arian Foster recently, but outside of him it's basically a wash. You're pitching this as a selling point for UT, and all I'm saying is that it's really not.
"this isn't an area where Tennessee is noticeably better than Michigan."
Yes, it is. And it's obvious. You're just choosing not to see it.
1. You mentioned Travis Henry and Jamal Lewis in the previous post, but saw fit to list them again to make your point, but not the Michigan guys, so bullshit.
2. You are listing guys drafted in 2000 and 2001 when Green was maybe 6. I doubt he has fond memories his 1st grade football idols. And Thomas hung around in the League (2007) as long as Henry. So basically your whole argument is "they had Jamal Lewis." Which wasn't the point you were making by listing them in the post I was responding to so you're just covering your ass now.
1. I'm sorry my posts on MGoBlog aren't always as consistent and thorough as a research paper. Sue me.
2. I remember guys who were drafted and played when I was five or six years old. I really have no idea when Green started paying attention to football, but logic suggests that he's more likely to remember guys who were drafted/played around that time than, say, Tyrone Wheatley and Tim Biakabutuka. Maybe I'm wrong and he's really into a bunch of players who played college football before he was born.
This argument is getting dumber and dumber. Since I've stated numerous times that it's not really an argument worth having since the conclusion is so obvious, I'm done with it.
Wait...so, he's not coming?