Our game against Ohio in November may very well feature both the highly regarded RB recruit we landed this year and the highly regarded RB recruit we nearly landed last year.
I'm curious: for those who saw both play in HS (or saw video), how do they compare in terms of skillsets, running styles, positives/negatives, etc.?
Aside from the obvious FACT that Green is better because he chose Michigan, of course...
Am curious who Magnus
FYI
It's Deveon Smith.
/puts on Steve Martin mask...
/puts on Steve Martin mask... "welllllll Exccuuuuuuuussssssse.... MEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"
I like Green best out of the
I like Green best out of the three. #1 Green, #2 Dunn, #3 Smith.
Isn't Brionte Dunn a little
Isn't Brionte Dunn a little tall for his position?
Full-on Decatur Clan. Whatever happens, GO BLUE!
He's listed at 6'0" on Ohio
He's listed at 6'0" on Ohio State's roster, so no. He was listed at 6'2" or so as a high schooler, but those heights/weights are almost always overshot by an inch or two and 10 pounds or more.
He's like Brionte Dunn, but
He's like Brionte Dunn, but better.
But FASTER.
Come on, MAN!!
The Team, The Team, The Team
lulz
Green is like Bri'onte Dunn, except Green is coached by Fred Jackson.
And without the COPS-esque
And without the COPS-esque backseat police video of his girlfriend trying to get him to tell the truth about his marijuana possesion.
Great Article on Michigan Coach Jeff Meyer
Scout's Chris Balas has a great article (free) on Michigan Assistant Coach Jeff Meyer over at the Wolverine. LINK: http://michigan.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1481920
I've gotten away from posting too many links, but given the accusations made by Indiana Coach Tom Crean, this is particularly relevant. Balas takes the high road in his article, as does Meyer in his actions. However, reading between the lines, this reflects poorly on Sampson, Indiana, and Crean, and not on Meyer.
"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi
you mean rivals right?
That being said I read the article and it was pretty good and outlines Meyer's path to Michigan.
Meant to post on the board
Multiple fail . . . posted in thread instead of on board, put Scout instead of Rivals. Still a good article, but c'est la vie for posting it here.
"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi
Im no expert, but in my
Im no expert, but in my opinion Green does a better job finding/hitting wholes and can break tackles better than Dunn. You'll see Dunn cut to the outside more often than not, where as Green can do it all.... both players I think are even when it comes to receiving.
With the type of running game we want and Oline we've recruited, Green fits in better than Dunn.
so...
You're saying that Dunn is better at finding/hitting halves?
For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
Not necessarily halves. Just
Not necessarily halves. Just fractions in general. You should see the guy hit a 7/16ths. It'll blow just over half of your mind.
What's the old saying?
What's the old saying? "Any port 5 Star running back in a storm?"
Observations from an untrained eye
My personal observations are that they are both very different backs within the same mold. That is to say that they are both power backs, but ones that go about their business in contrasting styles.
Derrick Green- His style is to do everything while going forward and at as close to full pace as possible. He doesn't waste much time in the back field, finds his hole fast and explodes through it. Once on the second level he's going to do a little shimmy or stutterstep that he can do without slowing down and plow through whatever is left in his way. By the time he's at the second level he's usualy at like 75-90% of his speed (which is pretty fast). As a result, lots of tacklers are only gonna put partial hits on him and most opponents tried to hit him low and have his momentum work against him. With his style you see lots of 10-15 yarders with a couple longer ones mixed in as well as a few times when he gets stuffed at the line when he picks the wrong hole or doesn't get the cance to get up to speed.
Brionte Dunn- Dunn is a little more patient and not nearly as explosive. He seems to bide his time in the back field a bit more, and more often than Green he will decide to try to go around the edge or take the play somewhere else than it was intended. His vision might be a bit better than Green's. He doesn't gash into the second level like Green, but he seems to wiggle out of more LB tackle attempts. He is taller and less compact than Green, which makes him kind of look like he's clumsily, hobbling down the field, but he does have some speed. It seems like as opposed to Green it takes him forever to get up to his open field pace, so it only shows up on his highlight reel when he's already past all the defenders. His length allows him to keep tacklers away with a very solid stiff arm.
My personal opinion is that I would take Green, Dunn racks up some big runs and breaks some tackles, but it's kind of like Thomas Rawls. Is he going to be able break real tackle attempts from college players? Is he gonna be able to turn those 5 yarders into 10 when people are actually playing with good form? Personally I think if Dunn has a good line he could make some decent yardage, but I don't think he will ever be a back that will do it on his own without a ton of help. On the other hand, I think Green's runs of 10-15 on most plays will dial back to 3-8 in college, but his style seems like it will always at least be decently effective. I think his burst is elite level and that he does enough in terms of little moves that he will have success in the B1G.
What about Ty Issac?
He was the back that M was recruiting the same time they were recruiting Green; and, I thought Issac was the Number 1 back at the time over Green, or at least was rated higher than Green. Did that change when Issac committed to USC?
Isaac is hard to judge
I think trying to evaluate him is a bit like trying to know whether Drake Johnson will work out. The offense he (Isaac) ran in high school got him the ball a lot in ways that exploited his strengths. He also was just a man among boys. I think he definitely has a lot more finesse and big play potential, but he is less "college-ready." In his highlight reel you'll notice that he runs very tall and takes lots of long strides. He's very nimble, but any time you seem face a reel tackle attempt he gets taken down very easily for a guy that is 6'3'' 210. He's gonna be good I think, but maybe in a different way than either Green or Dunn.
Well, this is awkward
twice in one thread
Pros and cons to both
Nothing wrong or "less" about being more methodical about getting to the line. So your comment about Dunn isn't stating a negative. Many backs are "slow to the hole and fast through it". Additionally, I don't know how you can judge one as more explosive - if they are getting yards consistantly then they are probably "explosive". You comments about Dunn potentially not being able to do break tackles, excell against college players, etc all can be said just as equally about Green. You certainly can't compare talent in H.S. game film when you have no basis for quality of opponents either.
Both were wanted by Michigan's current staff so both meet that foundation. Too soon to know who will be best of these two and even that will be contingent upon scads of variables. Nothing guarantees Green will be a stud or a bust at Michigan at this stage. Maybe the first time he is walloped by Ross or somebody else in the fall he gets gun shy... We just don't know.
Agreed on several points
I agree that we can't really project that much about what kind of players they will be, but I was offering my opinion and what my eye sees. Both players play against some of the best HS competition and perhaps Green's is better by a small margin. I think I can say that Green is more explosive, Dunn kind of lopes up to speed and all of his highlights that show him breaking away are sped up and still only look moderately fast. When I watch Green's highlights I see a guy getting shot out of a cannon into the second level and if someone doesn't slow him down when he gets there his momentum alone give him another 5 yards after being ankle tackled. If Dunn can't make the first guy miss he gets gang tackled fairly easily for a "power back." I just see more from Green that will translate to the next level. I think Dunn will be a fine back, but I am far more excited about Green.
overly long double post sorry
double post
the major difference
Dunn won't have the offensive line Green will have.. . .
I prefer the one that chose Michigan...
...over the one that chose Ohio, but that is just me.
(No subject)
The Team, The Team, The Team
Just sayin
The Game won't feature these two guys. Hall will be OSU's featured back...just saying. And, there's no gurantee Green will be ours. By the end of the year I'd expect to see Fitz being our primary ball carrier. I guess it's an interesting comparision because we recruited both guys and they are similar sized guys, but I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves here.
Strength equipment is expensive and guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free and can give you everything you want.
i could
See green as our featured back, if he hits the line like he did in high school. Last year fitz seemed to dance a lot in the backfield. Then again, every defense was loading the box on us to counter Denard. Even if fitz is the #1, Green looks to be the best option for #2 IMO
For those about to block! We recruit you!
I just want to thank the OP
for starting a thread about football. I can't take rehashing yesterday's basketball any more, and thinking about the Wisconsin and Penn State games (which I must after yesterday) makes me sick. This is much better.
wolverine 73
Agreed.
Although count your blessings. It wasn't always like this.
Last night, I was as upset as anyone. I wasn't throwing shit mad, I was internal, just want to erase everything from my memories, I need a long walk and perspective mad.
I went for a tough run for 30 minutes, I took a long shower and literally used up all the hot water, I sat outside in the nice weather with a glass of wine.
Nothing worked.
But then I started to realize...you know what, this is better than the alternative. It feels just as good to CARE than it felt bad to lose that game.
We're blessed to have 2 programs we CARE about again.
After that Ohio game and the bowl game I was upset...the same kind of upset. A run, a long shower and wine didn't help on those days either...what did? Thinking about Michigan Basketball. We were back, we had a good team, we were fun to watch. Instantly it was basketball season and just like that, the sting from those football losses faded away.
This isn't quite the same because our season isn't over in basketball...but thinking about football is certainly helping me get through the week.
Unless we get our revenge on PSU, Wisconsin and Indiana (I don't want any upsets...I want IU!)...I don't think I'll get over yesterday for awhile. But at least I have football to help mask it. At least I can think of a 2-deep, or rising stars, or potential commits.
Football matters and it's the best elixir for a heartaching loss.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
That was eloquently stated
That was eloquently stated and exceptionally insightful. My friends that don't follow sports always ask me why I get so upset when my team loses. "It's all about perspective," I tell them. If it doesn't hurt when you lose, how can you enjoy a win? It's what makes sports great amd we're really lucky to have teams worth caring about, made up of upstanding individuals worth cheering for.
Parents are U of M grads. Earned my BS at Purdue. Both the fight songs I know by heart start with Hail.
Green is a pure downhill
Green is a pure downhill runner. He has the speed to get outside occasionally, but mostly he's going to run between the tackles, run through an arm tackle, and then run over a safety.
Dunn is more of a slasher. He's not extremely fast, but he's large with pretty good speed who will accelerate through creases with some power. He's kind of like an Eddie George-type player, but I don't think he'll be as successful at Ohio State as if he were playing somewhere else (such as Michigan). His game just doesn't fit what Meyer tried to do at Florida, which is what I'm basing my projection on.
Smith is a bit of a combination of the two. He will slash and he will run downhill, but he's not particularly fast and he's not particularly big. His best attribute is his running attitude. If the OL can keep him clean to the second or third level, then smaller guys might have a hard time tackling him head-on. But big plays are only going to happen if he runs straight through a safety, not by outrunning people.
HOw about Green v Isaac
Who do you like better - Green or Isaac? I see someone else already posted their opinion - How about yours Coach?
I will fucking cunt punt the next person I hear about doing something like that, and I don't give a fuck if you SOR me, I WILL FUCKING ASSAULT YOU.
I'm honestly 50/50 on this
I'm honestly 50/50 on this question. If you asked me before the 2012 season, I would have said Isaac. But Green improved significantly as a senior.
As far as Michigan goes, I think Smith/Green are similar runners, so it's a little redundant to have both of them. I would have preferred to see a combo of Green and Isaac (a pipe dream, I know), because you would have the power of Green combined with the slashing of Isaac.
You see Wisconsin opponents suffering from a little bit of shock when they see five plays of Montee Ball being run at them, and then they see a smaller, faster guy like James White running past them on the next play. I like being able to do different things with the different personnel rather than just continually running your bread-and-butter plays, but they may not have much of a choice within the 2013 class, because both Smith and Green are between-the-tackles runners.
Smith not that big?
I agree with your general assessment of skills, but I guess I'm surprised you don't think Smith is "particularly big" when comparing the three. ESPN has Green listed at 6'0" 215 and Smith as 5'11" 215. We all sort of think of Green as a tank, but at an inch shorter and just as heavy that would make Smith the bigger player in terms of size/mass. I guess I'm curious why you see Smith as smaller...or did you just mean shorter? I know he often tends to use lateral quickness and stiff arms to avoid tacklers versus runniing over them, is that why you associate him as smaller due to his style versus his acutal size? I realize Dunn is a little taller and heavier than both.
Strength equipment is expensive and guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free and can give you everything you want.
I don't think DeVeon Smith is
I don't think DeVeon Smith is 215 lbs. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on the fall roster at 200-205. I've stood next to Derrick Green, and he's a barrel-chested man. Smith isn't small by any means, but he's probably an inch or two shorter than Green and 10-15 lbs. lighter.
Smith will surprise...
I don't know why people aren't more excited about Smith. I personally would like to see him win the job. If you watch their respective tapes, it is clear that Smith is the most natural runner with the best vision. Smith seems much more fluid that Green, he also seems to make better cuts and run through contact just as well if not better. It will be interesting to see, obviously I'm not hating on Green, I hope they both become studs, I just like Smith's style better. Hopefully their ranking/hype will not come into play when they are competing for carries, I think Smith will be a good one, lets just hope we didn't land a couple of David Underwoods...
"Once you've wrestled, everything else in life is easy"
Smith does have better
Smith does have better vision, but he's also smaller and noticeably slower. I'm not saying recruiting sites haven't been wrong before, but all four recruiting sites have Green ranked significantly higher than Smith. This isn't a matter of Scout and ESPN liking one guy, while Rivals and 247 like the other; literally everyone except a few Michigan fans thinks Green is the superior back.
I think you may be
I think you may be discounting the level of competition a bit too much. Smith is a very good player who could be successful at Michigan, but Green is an elite prospect who put up huge numbers against very, very good defenses. Green is faster and stronger.
I agree with Magnus that Smith's best asset is his mentality; I also believe this is the most important quality for a football player. But Green also has a great mentality.
As far as vision goes, HS and D1 are very, very different games, and we'll have to wait and see who is better at finding the hole. I'm not sure Smith is better in that department.
Thank you, Coach Hoke, for bringing Michigan back.
Dude
we ARE excited about (Deveon) Smith! Did you not hear Brian's podcast?!?
Full-on Decatur Clan. Whatever happens, GO BLUE!
I don't recall Dunn being
I don't recall Dunn being ranked the No. 1 running back in the country. So that should settle it right there.
Besides, I can't really see Dunn doing much in Meyer's offense when he just brought in Zeke Elliott, who bares a striking facial resemblence to Terrelle Pryor... hmm...
Full-on Decatur Clan. Whatever happens, GO BLUE!
Am curious who Magnus prefers, of the three... Dunn, Green, LeVeon Smith....