Depth and Talent wrt the 2012 recruiting class and what Michigan needs...
We have four spots left not counting any chickens before they have announced or anyone heading for greener pastures. Looking at the team I think we need 6 more guys (3OL/2DL/1QB). To QB or not to QB – whatever – I think we need one. This is pretty much a minimum. It would be nice to take 12 more (5OL/4DL (2-1 tech-2-3 tech)/1WR/1RB/1QB). That said we are in on more great talent at DE (Strobel and Washington) and at DB (Morgan and others). We also have offers out to can't turn down talent like Marshall and Agholor.
The sky is not falling but … this class is out of balance wrt what I think this team needs. I’m confident Hoke and co. know what we need – but I’m curious what they are thinking – and if you all see balance/depth as an issue.
Some possibilities are; -I know there are more than this- they see transitions coming (on the roster and with the current verbal commits); they see talent in the non-scholarship roster (I don’t think this is real – though I support our walk-ons). We have plenty of players at every position– but D-1 depth vs. position is an issue on the roster.
I also think Hoke sees the big picture and recruiting as a network of long term relationships. Offering and following through with 2012 commits builds potential for 2013 and beyond where our needs and talent might be better matched.
Anyway…we’ve talked about who we want going forward – much of which seems to me to be unrealistic (we aren’t going to take 25 recruits w/o cold shouldering or being cold shouldered to some extent.) We don’t have the luxury of re-balancing like Nebraska and Minnesota do by taking JuCos…we need to do that by recruiting to our needs…but it looks like we did get lucky with Marell Evans coming back at LB. It is a team sport…balance is important –especially on defense…what do you think the staff is thinking here?…what do you think about balance and depth as an issue with this class?
no shit.. every time ive gone on this site this wk there is another post spewing the same fucking bullshit about our recruiting, or the same crap about tressel...
There are already 500 other posts about the same shit, find one and post on that god damn
Football season to start. Everyone is Mgobored here. (See what i did there?!) Awful joke aside, this needs to stop.
Spring=Recruiting. I will put recruiting in the title next time so you don't have to click on it (wait I did that already).
Seriously - something unusual is going on with our recruiting. Taking 2 DBs and potentially another is an interesting choice. Is balance an issue to Hoke?
it isn't so much that you don't have a point, I think you do. I think the issue is that this is being discussed in numerous other threads from the two front page posts (wed recruiting and Standifer hello post) to the great class so far, who else do you want post in the side bar.
I think most just feel that this could have been discussed in any or all of those other threads. Generally a new thread is for something new that isn't currently being discussed in numerous other places.
I don't mean to be rude here, because I agree that no one forces anyone to click certain threads, I am just trying to explain why people are going to get frustrated by this post.
Balance and depth are a meta theme to those other posts but they seem to be more interested in who's next.
We will discuss these things until the season starts. It has always been like that. If you are wanting to discuss Michigan football June - July, what else is out there to talk about besides recruiting?
I don't mean to be a jerk and wouldn't ordinarily say something like this, but couldn't this just have gone in one of the 50 million other recruiting threads already on the board. Just sayin'
The "great class so far.who else do you want" one seems like a good fit.
seems to be more the issue than who we take next. I hear you though. I will go mow the lawn and take a break from my obsession.
it really isn't. I share the same obsession. As I said above, i was just trying to be more constructive in my post than the "are you fucking serious" crowd. I think you have a valid point in regard to balance and some posters would likely enjoy discussing with you. No harm done (at least as far as I am concerned).
Get on your lawn!!! :)
I respectfully disagree with your assertion that we will "not take 25 players".
I believe that Coach Hoke is planning to take 25 or more* players in this class. As a new coach, transforming the roster to fit your needs is a priority. It looks like, no matter how many players we sign, we will be turning away a few elite players. So I suspect the staff will do all they can to maximize this opportunity.
*The reason I suggest it could be more than 25 is that we could count up to 2 early enrollers in last year's class.
spots. I haven't heard of any of the current verbals talk about EE. If we got Washington I think he would play right away. Good point.
"this class is out of balance wrt what I think this team needs"
I don't think thats quite the right way of looking at it. I'd say the biggest needs have yet to be met (OL, DT, QB), but given that the class is incomplete, you can't judge how needs are being met.
I don't know why you think Hoke and Co. don't know that. They can't control when recruits commit, only when they are offered. The number of offers out to OL and DL far exceeds other positions. Seems to reflect that Hoke and Co. know what they need.
22-25 recruits is realistic based on expected attrition. Not sure why people keep worrying about this before it's a problem.While I haven't done research into the exact number, I'd guess if you looked at attrition at Michigan over say the last 20 years you'd average something like 5-7 per year, and that's not counting recruiting decommitments, non-qualifiers, etc who never enroll.
To answer your question - the staff is thinking: Let's offer players we want to add to the team and let's accept their commitments until we are full at a given position (e.g., LB). Pretty simple to me.
right here on this site. Magnus does a good take as well on TTB. That isn't even counting Morales who IIRC was given a scholarship. Reality is - we don't see who is on scholarship and who isn't.
I wasn't arguing with what the needs are, just that it's premature to judge the class before it's finished.
For real...I mean im just as nervous as everyone else is about this but repetitive posts aren't going to help here. Due to the commits at a rapid pace of this years recruiting class we don't give anything time anymore.
We enter a dead period pretty soon and in time, this issue will either become a more serious issue, or some current players, incoming freshman, current commits will realize some depth chart issues (which is bad to say but is also true). Until then, there really isn't much more to talk about.
Let it rest and as always; In Hoke we trust.
Seriously?? Most have said that the staff plans on recruiting 25 kids. Now if that makes you feel dirty inside, too bad for you. Every we get these same useless posts about "out of balance" and "depth". These coaches know what they are doing. We are having quite possibly the bet class in YEARS and people just can't be happy with that. They have to find something to gripe about. Enjoy the recruiting success and trust the coaches to handle depth issues. That's what they get paid to do.This is a great year in the midwest when it comes to Defensive talent and the coaches know that. You load up on as many of these elite D prospects as you can. It will all work itself out in the long run.
Last 2 years have been down, but besides that, nothing as of yet indicates this will be a better-than-typical recruiting class for Michigan. The only real change is that players are committing earlier.
Furthermore, the biggest needs from the outset were DT and OL, and as the OP points out, those still haven't been addressed.
This good be a great class, but you could say that any year (especially in June).
Not sure I would agree with that. Last year was mostly 3 stars with a couple of 4 stars. This year seems to be mostly 4 stars (or players who are likely to end up with 4 as the ranking expand) with a few 3 stars sprinkled in. And I think the offer lists are slightly better this year (even at this early point). Assuming that some of the expected names join the class (Wormley, quality OL, etc.) then I think this class will clearly out-average last year's class (and yes, I was a RR supporter).
Of couse, there could be defections but that seems unlikely at this point.
If you compare to the lowest rated recruiting class Michigan's ever had (easily), things are looking way up. By this criteria you can call the 2009 and 2010 football seasons major success as well.
However, if you look beyond the last 2 seasons, the class is par for the course...so far.
I'm pretty sure we're not going to feel any better about this or get any closure until January. Just putting that out there.The 5 star kids aren't going to pull as fast as kids with fewer top offers. They've only just started taking their national visits. And kids who'll leave our team will do so when they feel it's best, not sooner. Deal with it.
A pretty regular defender of most posters on this site, with the general theory that "if you don't want to read it, don't click on it". That being said however, enough with the fucking recruiting needs posts. We were 7 and fucking 6 last year, and worse than that the previous two years! We get it, we have god damn needs pretty much everywhere, not to mention a coaching change.
What's going to happen is that we are all going to be taught a great lesson in recruiting by someone who is clearly a master: Coach Hoke.
We will see how he handles the numbers. I would never venture to second guess his tactics, and I will be very interested in seeing how all this plays out by signing day.
You know that movie the golden child with eddy murphy, at the end when he's trying to escape the demon and he's freaking out and the little bald kid touches his hand and Ed suddenly becomes calm and says everythings gonna be ok....well that is what I wish I could do for you right now....but unfortunately I cannot.
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<br>All I can tell you is that we will sign 25-28 kids in Feb, they will all be very good and it will be a top 5 class, and our team will be more talented in 2012 because of it. Just take solace in that and try and enjoy some football Saturday's this year...go blue!
Apologies for going OT here, but I have a thought and if anyone has anything helpful to flesh this out, please chime in. IIRC, Nebraska has historically brought in recruits that would not have been allowable in the Big Ten, mostly due to academics. The Big 12 has different academic standards than the Big Ten. This is not to point a finger at Nebraska, who played by the rules of the conference that they were in.
What this makes me wonder is, while a lot of people have been quick to point out that Nebraska is going to have better recruiting due to Big Ten exposure, is it possible that this will be at the cost of some of the recruits that they have traditionally signed? I agree that they are an outstanding program, but to instantly anoint them as the dominant program in the Big Ten might be premature given the possibility of some growing pains as they adapt to their new home.
about how many we'll end up taking in this class accounting for attrition?
We have 18 spots open right now. We could take up to 28. Best guess at this point is anywhere inbetween. I'm not trying to be glib, it's just that no one on here could give you an exact answer.
I don't know why this thread got so roundly dissed. It seems to start to scratch the surface of some much more interesting dialogue then the same old I hope we get all the 4 and 5 stars who are interested in us threads. That's in sightful. Here the poster seemed to be trying to get us to a more interesting topic of roater management. What is the ideal Hoke roster and how do we get there? I'd love to hear what some of the more knowledgable posters here think.
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<br>On offense:
<br>QB - 4 - Generally have a 3 deep and a freshman redshirting?
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<br>OL - 15 - Not really a 3 deep because something like 4 are probably fresman redshirting?
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<br>RB - 8 At least 1 true FB and a couple more big backs who could play FB? While a lot more than a 3 deep, an oft injured position
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<br>TE - 6 - 2 deep for two TE sets and at least one redshirting?
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<br>WR 8 - Need enough for the occassional 4 wide, redshirt not as important
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<br>41 total offense
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<br>Special teams
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<br>Kicker 1
<br>Punter 1
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<br>Defense
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<br>DT - 9 - genereally takes a while to be ready to play, 3 or 4 redshirts and underclassmen not ready to play barely gives a 3 deep
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<br>DE - 8 - similar developmental issues to DT
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<br>LB - 10 if running 4-3
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<br>CB - 8 - 3 deep + need nickelback
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<br>S - 7
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<br>42 total defense
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<br>85 total
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<br>Is this anywhere near right? If so, as many have noted, we are way off on LBs. Why? Is it a hedge in case we have to run a 3-4? Seems like our depth at DT is the weakest part of the team and unfortunately the one where player development takes longest. If most of our current non- senior DTs pan out we will still need a true frosh on the two deep to run a 4-3. That is a lot of ifs. I like the idea of hedging that big risk even if it means another part of the roster (wr?) suffers a little.
numbers are reflective of Hoke's change of style on both sides of the ball. That said we took 4 good LBs last year and 4 every bit as good LBs this year - then he took Gant who might grow into more of a SLB if he puts on much weight. He's young and I think still growing.
It's interesting - looking at your numbers and the roster as is. It's worthy of a separate post - diss or no diss. There are few quality posts wrt FB this time of year. I'm looking at this and thinking about the roster and the 2012 verbals to date. I can't say I know what Hoke is going after as yet.
I think Williams is going to be moved to tackle - esp if we take another TE. He looks like a beast and using your numbers or just looking at the roster -we're hurting- we need quality play here. Word to Wellman - Omameh that guy pls. Miller will have to step up at TE. Regardless the need for big and talented tackles is huge. But we need big TEs too...I don't know.
Pipkins like guys are rare - which is why we didn't take a 1 tech last year. I think Hoke would gladly take 2 if he can...and maybe that is what he is doing in general - taking what the market gives.
Early enrollment/graduation will allow some flexibility...I wasn't thinking about that. Hopefully we can take a large class. Hoke certainly is entitled to form his own team with his own players. Though there are a lot of walk-ons filling out the ranks - I'm hopeful we will see the 2013 captains draw straws and pick a full sided spring game...it still doesn't look like we have enough lineman to square off two full sides next year...it's been too long since we have.
EDIT: Great - Karma = 0 :-| - I think it's time to go the way of MichiganDan.
I think people are getting too caught up in the numbers. We have the ability to use the full 85 scholarships for scholarship-caliber players. AFAIK, Kovacs is the only former walk-on who has earned a scholarship that will be on the roster in 2012. People keep talking about a "numbers crunch" and such, but we're in the same boat as just about every other school in the country (unless they have fewer scholarships due to sanctions, which means they're in WORSE shape).
You take your biggest needs right now (OL and DT, in my opinion), and then you fill in other positions (QB, RB) if needed.
A bunch of you people were cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs when we pulled in those 8 linebackers over the 2011-12 classes (which gives us 13 for 2012, which is overkill), and now you're freaking out that we don't have enough spots for other positions. Personally, I would rather have saved Kaleb Ringer's spot for a QB or a DT, so be careful what you wish for...
and we aren't like every other school in general- we rarely take JuCos - we don't renew scholarships year to year (Morales isn't counted for some reason in your numbers or MGoBlog's?) - we don't give a lot of greyshirts or medical exemptions - though we have done all of the above. Scholarships are a private thing between the school, the student and the NCAA - but the NCAA gets an accounting every quarter - and we certainly get a presentation every signing day.
Our pressing needs really can't be met without taking more than we currently have spots for. Something is going to give.
I'm assuming Hoke knows what is going on because he doing business like no other B1G school at the moment.
Taking Gant, Standifer and what I assumed to be Morgan makes me wonder about the plan when OL and DT are #1.
I like Ringer BTW to surprise - even with the increased competition.
It would've been nice if we'd pocketed some spots last year rather than take a bunch of guys with marginal profiles.