Denard's throwing(NOT AN INJURY THREAD)

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September 24th, 2011 at 3:56 PM
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Jinxed
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Denard's throwing(NOT AN INJURY THREAD)

What do you guys think is going on with Denard's arm/throwing technique/decision making process? At times out there he's looking as bad as he did back in 2009. So far we've been able to exploit either gimpy DLs/LBs from the other team or very bad CBs(Notre Dame). I can't help but wonder what's going to happen once we play a team that's decent all around. (MSU maybe?) They'll just stack the box and provoke an int-fest..

 

To be honest, if I was Denard I'd be begging to be played as a Slot/RB like Percy Harvin back in Fl. He's obviously not going to be a QB in the NFL and that position switch might earn him millions in the long run. As of right now he's sort of like a faster/smaller version of Jacory Harris. 

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September 24th, 2011 at 3:58 PM | First (Score:3 Normal)
kb
Joined: 10/31/2009
MGoPoints: 1428

change your title....it makes it sound as if Denard's arm is hurt or something.  About playing the slot/RB............ummmmm NO.

September 24th, 2011 at 3:59 PM | Denard will be the QB until (Score:5 Normal)
JBE
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Joined: 08/18/2008
MGoPoints: 8341

Denard will be the QB until he graduates, and he should be.

Sent From My Commodore 64

September 24th, 2011 at 4:02 PM | Are you still going to stick (Score:1 Normal)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 267

Are you still going to stick to that once the B1G season rolls around and we can't seem to move the ball vs anyone? Do you honestly think we'll be able to keep that YPC vs MSU, Iowa, Nebraska, and OSU?

September 24th, 2011 at 4:06 PM | Yes.  They'll move the ball (Score:1 Overrated)
JBE
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Joined: 08/18/2008
MGoPoints: 8341

Yes, I'll be sticking to that.  They'll move the ball just fine, including versus the teams you mentioned. 

Sent From My Commodore 64

September 24th, 2011 at 4:16 PM | I agree. We currently only (Score:1 Overrated)
Rhino77
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Joined: 05/27/2011
MGoPoints: 171

I agree. We currently only have TWO ranked opponents left on the Big Ten schedule. The last few years the BIG was stacked. This year not so much. We just beat a decent team by 3 TD's while not playing our best football. We don't have to be perfect this year in the conference to win. We will improve.

“I am going to treat you all the same.  Like Dogs.”

September 24th, 2011 at 4:21 PM | Hmm (Score:3 Normal)
G0B1U3
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Joined: 07/07/2011
MGoPoints: 241

The problem is, we haven't played our "best football" all year as of yet. We will see.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:46 PM | umm.. we won't be moving the (Score:2 Underrated)
switch26
Joined: 02/04/2010
MGoPoints: 2637

umm.. we won't be moving the ball in the BIG like we have against most of the teams we have played.. gauranteed..  Not to mention Denard will not hold up carrying it for more than 20 yards a game.. period

September 24th, 2011 at 5:01 PM | umm...you dont have to predict the future. (Score:2 Normal)
no joke its hoke
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Joined: 01/13/2011
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how did DR hold up last year doing this??? excatly

Vice.com

September 24th, 2011 at 5:13 PM | excatly (Score:1 Normal)
no joke its hoke
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excatly

Vice.com

September 24th, 2011 at 7:06 PM | Yes, excatly. (Score:1)
HermosaBlue
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Joined: 08/05/2008
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Yes, excatly.

September 24th, 2011 at 7:35 PM | ..... (Score:1)
rockediny
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.....exactly?

"There will be blood on the field and it won't be mine." -KK

September 25th, 2011 at 10:06 AM | Exactly, it's excatly. (Score:1)
HermosaBlue
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Exactly, it's excatly.

September 24th, 2011 at 8:22 PM | If he can't carry it for more than 20 yards a game (Score:2 Normal)
M-Wolverine
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We really are in trouble.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

September 24th, 2011 at 4:14 PM | Because putting in his backup (Score:3 Insightful)
TG7782
Joined: 11/12/2009
MGoPoints: 834

Because putting in his backup who has played not at all is clearly the better option.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:11 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:3 Insightful)
turd ferguson
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Joined: 12/09/2009
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I want Denard at QB right now, too, but if the coaches believe that we'd be better with Gardner (or another QB) either this year or next year, then he should be the QB. The "you'd better play Denard at QB" pressure from part of the fanbase is unhelpful and comes from a place of very limited knowledge about the QB situation since we've seen so little of Gardner.

September 24th, 2011 at 3:59 PM | Denard's arm (Score:3 Normal)
Blue Durham
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MGoPoints: 983

< Denard's legs.

 

That's all I've got.

 

[Edit - this was to be posted in the thread "denard's arm."  Mods must have combined these two threads, hence my joke comes across even more lame.]

September 24th, 2011 at 4:09 PM | I changed the title.. didn't (Score:1)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 267

I changed the title.. didn't want to give anyone a heartattack... 

September 24th, 2011 at 3:59 PM | Because he's not going to be a QB at the next level, (Score:5 Normal)
Phil.engin2011
Joined: 06/29/2011
MGoPoints: 191

he should be asking to switch positions?  He wasn't recruited to UM in order to get drafted, he was recruited to UM to win games for UM.  

September 24th, 2011 at 4:27 PM | I am not certain that he wont (Score:2)
Blue Durham
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be playing at the next level.  Denard has the will and ability to improve tremendously.  sophomore Denard >> fresham Denard.  I suspect that Jr. Denard > soph. Denard, but it isn't as apparent due to the coaching change.  I does appear that he is stronger and a little more durable.

Anyway, I'm a Philadelphia Eagles fan, and with what they are doing with their offense with Vick and Vince Young, yeah, I would very much like to see Denard an Eagle.  Considering Vick's age, it might be a very good fit.

September 24th, 2011 at 6:22 PM | He will be playing at the (Score:1)
cbuswolverine
Joined: 08/14/2008
MGoPoints: 1762

He will be playing at the next level...as a RB/slot receiver/return man.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:00 PM | Too high! (Score:2 Normal)
coldnjl
Joined: 12/31/2009
MGoPoints: 2427

Too high!

September 24th, 2011 at 4:09 PM | (No subject) (Score:5 Normal)
IncognitoWolverino
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"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."

September 24th, 2011 at 4:01 PM | The emphasis on trying to add (Score:3 Interesting)
Run 2 Daylight
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Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2270

The emphasis on trying to add "scramble" as a read in his progression appears to be making him a lot more jittery than he was last year. Last year he would consistently plant his feet into the ground and cycle back and fourth through the receivers (which did cause some issues, but not detrimental ones like interceptions), but this year he looks to be shuffling quite a bit more. That's what I think, because he never thought about scrambling last year and has shown that he is this year. I'd sacrifice that one or two scrambles for some passing consistency if this really is the case. 

Go Blue!

September 24th, 2011 at 4:07 PM | Interesting (Score:1)
ForeverVoyaging
Joined: 09/24/2011
MGoPoints: 262

Never really thought of that way, but you may have a point about the scrambling. However, it never seems to matter how long Denard is in the pocket (last year or this year). The result is usually the same: Denard looks, looks, looks, and either chucks it to Tacopants or into double coverage.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:12 PM | I didn't think he was that (Score:1)
Run 2 Daylight
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I didn't think he was that bad last year as a passer. He still had overthrows and misplaced balls of course, but not at the rate we see this year. Granted Rich Rod only employs about 10 passing packages, so it was probably easier on him last year to get rhythm in practice and then subsequently in games. Not to say that he was great last year, but there was more production through the air, and a lot more of the blame for miscues could be placed on receivers dropping the ball.

Go Blue!

September 24th, 2011 at 6:25 PM | I'd sacrifice thinking about (Score:1)
cbuswolverine
Joined: 08/14/2008
MGoPoints: 1762

I'd sacrifice thinking about scrambling for actually scrambling, say, 90% of the time if this really is the case.

September 24th, 2011 at 7:59 PM | Disagree 100% (Score:1)
Maize and Blue ...
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MGoPoints: 3516

Denard hardly ever went through progressions last year.  He had never been a high percentage passer until last year (45% in HS).  Last year he had open WRs all over the place partially because teams were scared to death of him running.  Throw Roundtree back in the slot where he constantly beat safeties instead of outside where he hasn't been as successful against CBs and maybe things will change.

Last year's passing scheme was simple where as a west coast system is extremely difficult because WR and QB have to read the same thing.  Bill Walsh, the creator of the WC, said it takes three to four years to perfect.  Not a good thing when a college career is between 3 and 5 years.   

September 24th, 2011 at 4:02 PM | posted from iPhone (Score:3 Normal)
Michael Scarn
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1. Yes he has looked bad. Over excited, uncomfortable with bad reads and poor throws.



2. He should not beg to play any other position. He's a quarterback for now. He will get drafted to play another position regardless, and what's best for the team is for him to be our QB.



3. Comparing him to Jacory Harris is beyond ridiculous. Both interception prone, sure, but come on let's be serious. Jacory has run possibly 3 times for positive yards in his career.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:06 PM | You're right on the Jacory (Score:1)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 267

You're right on the Jacory Harris comparison... I was mostly thinking about the ints

September 24th, 2011 at 4:02 PM | Way too many throws to (Score:1 Normal)
WilliSC48
Joined: 10/20/2009
MGoPoints: 2092

Way too many throws to Tacopants and Burritoshorts. 

September 24th, 2011 at 4:03 PM | Long Ball (Score:4 Normal)
MCalibur
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Joined: 07/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2180

I think Borges keeps asking him to do things he's clearly not good at.  He can make mid range throws (10 - 15 yards) just fine. That and the WR/TEs drop too many easy catches.

Not saying Denard's passing skills don't need improvement, but I think Broges could put him in a better position to succeed in terms of the throws he's being asked to make.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:29 PM | I disagree (Score:2 Normal)
ClearEyesFullHart
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Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 799

I dont think the passes Denard has missed have been all that difficult.  I dont think you can pin this all on Borges.  Denard just needs to calm down and execute.  I know he has got it in him.

Omnes i facere est vincere 
September 24th, 2011 at 4:34 PM | I disagree on this as Denard (Score:1)
MileHighWolverine
Joined: 09/02/2008
MGoPoints: 1258

I disagree on this as Denard was forcing throws way downfield into double coverage when he had open outlet throws that would have picked up 3-5 yards.  That is 100% on DRob.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:03 PM | He should be, but he really (Score:1)
DentalMonsterUM
Joined: 09/17/2011
MGoPoints: 48

He should be, but he really needs to hit a reciever in stride instead of throwing it 7 feet above the reciever's head.  He cannot make a solid pass under pressure right now and has been bailed out thanks to the recievers going up for the ball.  He is a great spontaneous QB, but he can't throw when he has to right now... let's hope it changes for conference play when we will need it...

Live every week like it's against OSU.....

September 24th, 2011 at 7:51 PM | Did you miss the 15 yard (Score:1)
tenerson
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 1676

Did you miss the 15 yard bullet he put ona  reciever with a defender holding onto both his legs against ND? I didn''t.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:04 PM | He's not switching positions. (Score:1)
Nosce Te Ipsum
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He's not switching positions. Please stop.

Omnia mutantur nos et mutamur in illis.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:05 PM | You are not Denard and he is (Score:2 Normal)
gordie bell
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You are not Denard and he is living his dream becoming the best running QB in college football history. I love watching him play QB. He just turned 21, how bout a little patience

September 24th, 2011 at 4:11 PM | Patience? He is in his junior season. (Score:3 Normal)
SalvatoreQuattro
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At this point he should be able to throw the ball with accuracy. If Michigan is going to beat MSU and OSU he has to be much better then what he has been up to this point in his career.



"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"

September 24th, 2011 at 4:16 PM | Yes, patience Denard is in a (Score:4 Normal)
gordie bell
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Yes, patience Denard is in a brand new system, with a brand new coaching staff, and is still putting up astounding numbers, you just need to appreciate it.

You may find this hard to believe, but there have been many a successful football teams without having effective passing QB's. He is the best running QB EVER, try to enjoy his abilities, he will be gone before you know it.:(

September 24th, 2011 at 4:26 PM | Sure, there have been teams (Score:0 Flamebait)
September 24th, 2011 at 4:33 PM | I tend to agree with you, but (Score:2 Normal)
gordie bell
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I tend to agree with you, but at the same time I don't have expectations that this team is winning the B-10 this season. We are a flawed team with a new staff, but we seem to be improving, right now, I am satisfied with this. I am not having any thoughts like, OMG if this keeps up we won't go undefeated, because I know we aren't going undefeated. I am just here to enjoy one of the most exciting players to ever don a M uniform, in that, I am a bit of a simpleton.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:35 PM | Those teams also had dominant defenses (Score:1)
SalvatoreQuattro
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Joined: 11/30/2010
MGoPoints: 2787

and for the most part, ran option offenses. I have called for option offense several times on this board because I do recognize his extraordinary gifts as a runner. Denard is a runner, not a passer. The offense should reflect that if he is to be your QB.



Denard's problems have little to do with a different coach or offense, it is accuracy and decision making. In every offense you are taught not to throw the ball in double coverage. In every offense inaccuracy is a drive killer.



Denard Robinson is a great kid and runner. But his passing skills leave a lot to be desired. If UM wants to be a Big Ten title contender they need to find a way to maximize his ability as a passer. How they do that is the question Boras is trying to answer.

"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"

September 24th, 2011 at 4:36 PM | Denard's improvement since he (Score:3 Normal)
Blue Durham
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MGoPoints: 983

came to UM a little over 2 years ago has been dramatic.  Under RR's system, Denard's reads and decision making were prior to the play, not while it is unfolding around him.  I think this is totally new for him, as it is with most young QBs.

I have enjoyed watching him play more than any other Michigan player, ever.  I do think that he will vastly improve in the passing game, both during this season as well as prior to next year.  

But Jesus, it's not enough for some people that the guy has Barry Sander's legs; he has to have Tom Brady's arm, too.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:41 PM | Barry Sanders did not play QB (Score:2 Normal)
Jinxed
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 267

Barry Sanders did not play QB

September 24th, 2011 at 4:43 PM | Exaggerate much? (Score:1)
SalvatoreQuattro
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No one expects Tom Brady, but a Shaun Hill. You have to have a passing game that is at least decent to beat a MSU or Nebraska.

"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"

September 24th, 2011 at 6:06 PM | My, have expectations been elevated or what? (Score:2 Normal)
Blue Durham
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MGoPoints: 983

Prior to the season nobody was anticipating a win against Nebraska.  Good see loftier expectations.

Regarding Nebraska, recall Scott Frost, 1997.  Or Notre Dame's Tony Rice, 1988.  Both national champions.  I am sure there are many other such examples, but these two come to my mind now.  Rice makes Denard look like Joe Nameth (throwing the ball, that is); Frost might have been a slightly better passer but not near as good a runner.  In college, there are many ways to be a top team.  

September 24th, 2011 at 8:03 PM | Interesting that you bring up Nebraska (Score:1)
Maize and Blue ...
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MGoPoints: 3516

because Taylor Martinez can't throw the ball a lick.

September 24th, 2011 at 4:46 PM | What up BD! always good of (Score:3 Normal)
gordie bell
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MGoPoints: 7961

What up BD! always good of you to grace us with your presence. It is the nature of this blog to accentuate the negative. Many a poster on hear are just trying to beat Brian in pointing out areas in which we fail, and they do it on a play by play basis. By the time they get done nit  picking our performance they will find 3 billion bad things about the game and gloom and doom will set in about our chances for a NC this season. Shit, I still don't think Ricky Leach ever made a bad decision, just had some bad breaks that's all.

September 24th, 2011 at 5:00 PM | POSITIVITY!!! (Score:1)
NorthSideBlueFan
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MGoPoints: 2196

Now we're talkin!

"... never forget that Ohio is still a four-letter word."
-Bob Ufer

September 24th, 2011 at 5:05 PM | Thanks Gordie! (Score:3 Normal)
Blue Durham
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MGoPoints: 983

Got a question for you:  What do you think the odds were, prior to the start of the season, that Michigan would be 4-0 right now?  I'm thrilled and impressed with the staff.  The concern of Borges MANBALL not adapting to Denard's talent was the overriding concern.  Now, not so much.

Regarding Denard's shortcomings in the passing department.  Remember his freshman year?  How much he improved in the offseason.  I think Denard is better (and seems to be more durable) this year than last year, it just isn't as obvious given the changes in the offense. 

The expectations on Denard around here are just incredible.  Maybe some posters really do believe he is made out of dilithium.

Ricky Leach went something like 38-8-2 as QB for Michigan, but he had a great supporting cast and a top-ranked defense.  An all-time Michigan great; another QB I always loved was Steve Smith.  Smith was strong and incredibly fast, and Bo loved to run him, just like with Ricky Leach. 

But there was something I noticed when Smith was playing.  He was a fairly accurate passer early in the game, or late in the game if he didn't have to run too much.  But if he had a game where he had to run a lot, his accuracy was not too good late in the game, doming Michigan.  Ever notice this with Leach (who I don't think was as polished a passer)?

I wonder how much the continuing punishment Denard sustains during the game affects his passing late in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

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