Peppers at 10, which seems low.
This one was spot on.
Denard is number 16 in your program and number 1 in our hearts. Thanks for the stats.
Devin is number 7!
I'm good at this numbers game!
He had a boo-boo. He'll be great on Saturday.
Especially because you didn't end your question well either.
It's not just folks on this board - Rittenberg's been saying it too. I don't understand why, but it is something people are talking about. Why doesn't it merit it's own thread?
FWIW, he's #1 on the depth chart too. As he should be.
The issue is that the OP is beating a dead horse. It's been discussed endlessly already.
Where the hell is 'here'?
There is no "there," there, but there is definitely a "here" here. Hear?
nice one gramps
I am not going to waste time by pointing out that this has been discussed . . . at length and on numerous occasions . . . in this board, and the resounding answer post-MSU was that this is a non-issue.
I will also not point out that since that time, both Hoke and Borges publicly shot down any notion of Denard being benched as the starter. Also since that time, Denard was great against Purdue and actually, despite numbers brought down by receiver dropsies, played great against OSU.
That all aside, not a single person who has watched Devin could rationally say that he should start over Denard. He has every one of the same downsides as Denard, but lacks the speed and experience. Also, Denard is actually more decisive and less afraid to actually throw.
Devin is NOT starting this year unless Denard gets hurt.
Denard's speed, but Devin is not slow at all.
is no way that you have seen enough of Devin Gardner to say that he has every one of the same down sides as Denard. Maybe the coaches have seen enough to say that, but they certainly have not said it. In fact, all that has really been said publicly about Gardner, by Hoke, mind you, was that he is the more accurate passer.
Look, it is unlikely that Devin Gardner will actually start a game this year in that Denard will in all likelihood be on the field for the first play from scrimmage for the sake of continuity if nothing else. But I think it is ridiculous at this point to not acknowledge that Denard is struggling mightily, to a greater extent than any of us foresaw in a lot of very important areas at quarterback. Denard made some plays in the first half, but he also made enough bad plays in the second half to lose that game for M against a better team that Illinois.
If the contention is that Denard will finish the season as M's starting QB, that is very likely. If the contention is that he will continue to be M's staring QB at the beginning of next season, I don't think that is very likely at all.
His play is a problem. He does enough things very well to make it difficult to take him off the field. But he does enough things very poorly, at times often catastrophically (or nearly) that I think the coaches have to be discussing their alternatives at this point. (Alright, not publicly I get it, but Hoke also "publicly" said that Michigan State did not play a dirty football game).
Denard will start. No matter what. But It won't surprise me if Hoke puts Devin in at some point if Denard keeps turning the ball over.
At some point, the turnovers have to stop. It almost seems like heresy to talk about replacing him with Devin because Denard is loved, and Devin doesn't seem ready, but it is always about the team. You can't have two or three turnovers and expect to beat the teams we play the next two weeks.
I have wondered for a couple of weeks if everything is OK with Denard. He doesn't seem to be his bubbly self, although he was pretty psyced a couple of times yesterday.
People get mad bc there are numerous posts regarding who should be the qb, but when there are just as many redundant posts regarding RR. Where should he coach, he would be a great fit at this particular school, man wouldnt it be cool if hoke let him come visit a practice ( dumbest thing ive ever heard) and so on. Id rather talk about guys who are actually a part of michigan. Denard is the starter but If he went down I would not panic one bit. Devin is solid.
wow you really went out on a limb with that sample size of stats...
of a bad thread with a worse title that I will eventually be able to neg. If the thread is trollbait the title should have to be also.
That's how they get you.
Watching our offense I know I felt better when #16 was in. I would actually prefer that he take every snap instead of the 2 QB stuff.
Devin isn't the quarterback you are looking for
Denard will start on saturday
You can go about your business
our defense is on the field. Seriously, I relax more with our defense on the field than when Denard has the ball. He just keeps turning the ball over and I question his decision making. I think if you talk to objective fans they feel like his play has really fallen off. I personally think he is hurt and it is affecting his play. The blocking isn't always the best. The offense isn't conducive to his skills, but at the end of the day you have to stop fumbling and throwing picks.
A 31-14 conference win on the road, a 8-2 record, the two best games coming up, and you want to conjure up a QB controversy. Did you lose your 20-sided die or what? I'm thinking Michigan Football is not your primary concern.
Denard only has 13 ints. That is far short of 20 just saying.
does not mean 20 ints. Just sayin.
include fumbles! so closer to 20!
Don't worry, I'm sure he'll be gone after this year along with roundtree, gallon and Vince. We may win nine games but the attrition that hits after this season will be serious. At least Denard got to get in some time early in the year to sell those ugly jerseys. Tradition!
Why would they come back to be completely phased out? You're not very realistic if you think those guys are happy right now.
Isn't Gallon our leading receiver? Not to mention Denard starts...
Did you get dropped on your head as a child?
We're not very realistic if we think you're not on drugs
not to mention, who transfers for their senior year?
He was then asked to leave.
Vincent Smith gets a lot of PT under this staff, Gallon is our leading receiver, and Denard is our starting QB.
Why wouldn't your leading receiver and leading passer and rusher be happy with where they are at?
So those three are going to leave their senior year? That sounds real logical.
Ok you're right we should replace him. Devin will score 5000 touchdowns and never have another int. Did Denard do something this week to warrant people looking for him to be replaced?
I can't wait til one of these pops up every day in the offseason. Hooray for endless "Denard or Devin" threads!!
Devin will have his chance in the offseason. Until then, it's Denard or death.
I am having trouble logically coming up with more excuses to make for Denard. Lets all move past the "we love Denard, he's a great kid" phase. Everyone loves Denard and is on board with that notion. Lets start talking about him completing a pass that isn't a simple one man read. Take for instance when he hits Hemmingway over the middle for a first down in the trips formation to the right. That is a simple one man quick read. Ok he flicks the ball to Hemmingway simple pass that a junior high QB could hit. The pass to Koger down the left sideline was another trips formation read play with Koger one-on-one with the LB running a wheel route. He recognized it and as Denard seems to do just lofts it up, under throws Koger causing him to completly stop catch the ball and get caught instead of catching in stride and scoring.
This is my problem with Denard. He has limited arm strength, and if you can't see it then I don't know what to tell you. I know Tom Brady didn't have the strongest arm either, but Tom's arm is far stronger then Denards. OK so his arm isn't that strong, so if it's not that strong then you have to be deadly accurate, again Denard is not. The past 3 games entering Illinois Denard was completing 47% of his passes. You can't ignore that. That is Tim Tebow NFL stats. Not only is he only competing less then 50% of his passes, but he is reverting back to his turn it over several times a game trick.
I am all for playing ball control if the QB can't complete a pass, but only if we take care of the football. Denard laying it on the ground, tossing it up for anyone to pick, or not tucking it away is getting real old real fast.
I am glad we won. I am happy Denard scored two touchdowns on the ground, but notice the adjustment after the two td's, Denard went nowhere fast. He was forced to throw it, and it was bad. We went stagnate for nearly a quarter and a half and let Illinois back in the game.
I have heard this excuse that it is the system for far too long. The system is not causing Denard to loft balls up for anyone to have a shot at. The system is not causing Denard not to throw off his back foot. The system is not forcing Denard not to step into his throws and deliver the ball where it needs to be. It is the same thing week in and week out. Fundamentals are th problem, and it is either on him or on the coaching staff, but ultimatly it is Denard who is responsible for doing what he is supposed to.
Before I get neg banged here for saying my piece I will tell you I played football, played in college (D2 Tiffin), worked for scout for two years, and worked in an athletic department for 3. I get football as well as the other common person.
I also understand that Devin is not ready to take over full command. He shouldn't be asked to at this point as a RFr (if he gets the med rs). The QB in front of him should have cemented his place as the #1. Unfrotunatly we have to continue having this discussion because Denard has not done this going into game 11 of the season. This is not a good sign. Let me also remind everyone that Devin has yet to start an entire game, and has been thrown into the game here and there, and I can tell you from experience that being in this scenario rarely works out well for the person being thrown in sporadically. We don't have a good enough sample of what Devin can do yet to say he is not throwing the ball as well as Denard. If you look at Devin and I hate to make the comparison, but he is more TP then Denard. He flicks the ball much like TP, he is a long strider, and he can create plays with his arm more then his feet.
IMO if Devin is not the QB next year we are in trouble because Denard has been figured out by the good teams. Please dare to show me stats v good teams for Denard.
It's not about making excuses for Denard. Denard's throwing is subpar and the majority of the posters here acknowledge that.
The deal is Devin clearly looks lost at times. He makes youthful mistakes (throwing past the line of scrimmage for example). Devin had a nice second half on Saturday, but he's also make a lot of mistakes.
For all your "I get football comments" you seem to very poorly grasp the issues at play. It's not like we're making Tom Brady sit on the bench while Denard runs around there. Denard has problems, but so does the backup. Right now we're 8-2 and doing a decent job of compensating for our starters known faults. You make it sound as if people are blindly defending Denard, which is clearly not the case.
As for your next year comments, unless you're Borges you're just spouting off hot air. If Borges decides to move in the direction of installing something like he had at Auburn or SDSU, then Devin is the more prototypical guy for that system. However right now our WR roster is awash in 6' and smaller guys which can present problems in having a big deep threat for the vertical game. The biggest guys on our WR roster are likely going to be some true freshman. Stonum comes back next year (I assume) but we're not exactly sitting on a stockpile of big guys to send deep and dominate on the fade.
It could very well be that Borges spends the offseason working on an underneath passing attack and option ball figuring he has more weapons in the slot and backfield than anywhere else. In that case Denard may be a better fit.
As it stands you see Borges thinking with elements of the option and with his desire to throw deep strikes. He's going to settle on the direction he wants to go this offseason I assume and the QB that works best in that direction starts.
It's not about making excuses, it's about accepting who provides the most stability at offseason and right now that's Denard and will be through the end of this year.
I think I more then addressed the short comings of Devin. With that being said you are going back to the MSU game where he threw it over the LOS. Did he look lost against Illinois? I don't think so. Did he look lost against NW, I don't thik so. I said that I don't think Devin is ready, but the failure of having a quality #1 at this point is the problem.
I don't know how you can say Devin makes "youthful mistakes" then ignore that Denard does the exact same thing. Denard basically heaved up a prayer off his back foot while running backwards and had the ball picked and droped. How is that any different? Against Iowa he puts the ball on the ground, how is this not a youthful mistake? The problem is Devin is a 2nd year player, those things will happen. Denard is a 3rd year player 11 games into his 2nd full year of starts.
People on this board clearly blindly defend Denard on a daily basis.
JR Hemmingway at 6'2 225 is not a big physical wideout who can go up and get it? Clearly you are nto watching him out jump people for Denard jump balls every game.
So I am not the OC so my opinion doesn't count. Nice logic. More like my opinion is not the same as yours or the majority so my opinion doesn't count.
I have been fair and presented my case in an honest fashion. Neg me all you want.
BTW, with all my experience I admitted to knowing as much as "the common person".
You really need to work on your posting. How the hell are we supposed to use Hemingway as a deep threat next year? He's a fifth year senior. Next time you're in Walmart, grab one of those football roster guides or something man.
As for Denard vs Devin, you either fail to get it or you're a troll. Denard makes mistakes. I said, you said in your reply. Devin makes mistakes. I said it, you said it. So what's your argument here? Because it sounds like "Hey we got two games left, lets change out the leader of our offense".
As for next year, way to be over sensitive. Insecure much? You claim "If Denard is our starter next year, we're in trouble". My point was simply that if Borges decides to move more in the direction of option ball, Denard is going to be our starter and it will be a good thing. Blanket statements like you made only work if you know what our base set is going to be next year. As it stands only our coaching staff knows that right now.
I apologize I thought you were talking about this season.
Trolling? LOL. Ok first the only people that use this type of language are immature people who can't have a civil discussion and come away agreeing to disagree.
Walmart....LOL. Ok. We can compare how much I donate to the victors club any day and then you can call me a walmart. I saw half of these kids in combines before any of the people on this board had a clue who they were.
I have said from my first post basically that it is a shame that Denard has not played well enough to not have to have this discussion. I am not happy in Denards play and if he plays poorly should be sat just like anyone else.
Only point on Devin I have made is we really have no clue how he would respond given an entire game to play. He comes in situationally. We have no clue how he would respond.
No I look at the schedule against Bama, at ND, at OSU and think how difficult this is going to be to even compete if we are having the same issues as we have had this season. IMO I believe we will if Denard is our QB. I could be wrong and I hope that I am.
After a quick scan of the thread I see two really heavy pro Denard comments that have more than 0 zero points at my time of typing this. The highest ranked posts in this thread are of the "Not this shit again" variety or the "We finish the year with Denard and see who wins the job in the camp next year" variety. So I'm not seeing a lot of blind defense of Denard.
Rather the main point people seem to be hammering on is:
"We're 8-2, we're ranked, we've had some success on the road. Devin may very well be the guy next year. However we're 8-2 and about to play two very important games. So rather than trying to feed the fire of a QB controversy, shut up, let the team do its thing and support the coaches."
The entire concept of a QB controversy does nothing to help the team. All a QB controversy does is end up on talk radio, get the fanbase all riled up, and increase the odds people start booing after a 3 and Out on Saturday. That's why posts of such a manner are getting negged.
I'm not looking at Bama, ND, or anyone fron 2012. It's 2011. We have a ranked team and our rival which we haven't beaten since 2003. If you want to talk about 2012, wait until 2012.
Basically your posts here and in other places in this thread about how Denard is underperforming don't accomplish anything. That fact gets mentioned in UFRs, diary posts and other places. We don't need it mentioned in the context of a QB controversy.
So basically don't have an opinion if it is not centered around shut your mouth and support the team and if you have something to say that is the opposite of the majority then please don't comment. I get it.
Stop being a child. He is saying it is much more important to focus on the games that we have over the next 13 days rather than the games that we have in 9 months. Be clear on what you're arguing for-- saying that 2012's camp will be interesting to see who emerges as the starting QB is a separate thread and one that the majority of people aren't really interested in right now. Denard provides us with the best chance to win right now, and that's why he is our starting QB. I believe he provides the best chance to win for at least the next 3 games, and after that we can start the summer long qb debate. For now, beat the damn Huskers.
Yes I am the one insulting others. Thank you for reminding me. I get the support the team notion and believe me I do. I will be at the game the next two weeks just as I was at the game this week. I will continue giving my money to the victors club, but by saying I shouldn't post honestly and logically about the QB situation because hypothetically there is a possibility I may posion the well, so to speak, is just silly. This is a topic being discussed on the ESPN boards, scout, rivals, etc. This is what these boards are for, to discuss as adults. To agree and disagree in a civil manner.
The poison the well theory is a bit off, and I don't think it should deter us from discussing relevant issues to our team. I am all about supporting the team, but that's not what I'm trying to convey here. My perspective is that Denard gives us the highest probabilty of beating our next opponent, which means he should start against Nebraska. And to reply to no joke its hoke, I agree with you on the turnovers, and I don't think you will find many people disagreeing with you- if Denard puts up 3 TO's in this weekend, I'm sure we'll see Devin get some drives. But the truth is, 2-3 TO's a game is almost unattainable unless your Jacory Harris. Probability says that they'll regress to the norm (well, hopefully at least). If this pattern continues, I bet we see Devin (and we should), but I think that's about the only way that we do end up seeing him as the primary QB. Next year is a different story, but that is a different discussion.
I don't know about you boys, but it's just an instant panty splash for me when an MGoBlogger pulls out his wallet for me to measure while he boasts about his financial contributions to U-M.
I wouldn't have to make a comment like that if I weren't being insulted and told what an average (walmart) fan I am all because my opinion is different then the poster. I need to "learn how to post". What ever that is supposed to mean. I post logically and fairly and often times say I really I hope I am wrong, but then I get the "you are not from around here" treatment because I don't post on every topic and participate by cursing and calling people out and acting immature. I try to be civil and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Being fair is tough to do.
I didn't miss the insult, and I'm sorry you got jumped on in a personal fashion. But the "walmart wolverine" comment was not a dig on your financial position, but rather a swipe about how much your counterpart thinks you know about the program.
If that slam is misplaced, that will be apparent to everyone soon enough as the discussion continues. It will not win you admirers to whip out the thank-you letter you got from David Brandon or Jerry May this year. I do appreciate your financial support of the program. Honestly. But I think you should keep it off the board.
Are we good? Good. As a gesture of goodwill I would be happy to take your club seats for the Nebraska game. ;)
Fair enough. LOL on the seats. I have been waiting on this one since the beginning of the year sorry. I have bball tics if you are interested. I can send you a pm to let you know when some tics come open.
I get it, my only problem is the poster fixated on me making a mistake about next years wideouts and not this years. That led to me being called a walmart whatever that is supposed to mean. Then I was told not to bring up next year at the same point the poster is talking about next years wideouts lol.
Like I told the poster, I saw a lot of these kids at combines before most people knew who they were. I haven't really said anything that would lead to me being labeled ignorant.
but have some sympathy for your POV regarding whether or not this should be discussed. I have no problem with the dialog so I'm with you there.
Regarding your POV however, I don't understand your comment that Denard's arm isn't strong--I think its fairly evident that that is simply not true. And the coaches have said as much. And regarding Denard's fundamentals and that the system this year is not affecting him--what exactly then is your explanation for how a guy goes from sophomore to junior, precisely when almost every QB in the country makes his greatest improvement, but regresses? That he's just bad? You really don't think that 1- going from 3 steps and throw to footwork being an emphasis, 2- having both he and his receivers making reads--which was not the case in the RR system 3- going from high percentage snags and bubble screens last year to throwing more precise and longer routes requiring greater accuracy, and 4- going from a system where every single play had the threat of a Denard run to one that on certain plays the defense knows for sure that he is not running--meaning that the pass is easier for the defense to defend--that none of this is affecting his play? That does not see logical or rational. You seldom see regression like this in any QB from first year to second(there are examples but they are very rare). And given his work ethic I'm sure that's not an issue. It seems to me that the reasons I've listed are far more rational reasons than "he's just not good."
Arm strength. I will say this to further strengthen my point so you will have a reference to why I feel this way.
While serving in the athletic department at Marshall University I saw Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwhich, Stan Hill, and Bernie Morris. I can say that of those four Chad had the weakest arm of the four. I feel fairly confident in saying Denard's arm is nowhere near as strong as Chad's and Chad never under threw Randy Moss.
I have seen the past 5-6 Michigan QB's in person, aside from the 2008 QB, aside from Sheridan Denards arm is weaker then any UM QB dating back to I don't even know who to mention.
Have you ever seen Denard zip one in on a comeback route say 15 yards+? Denards arm is not very strong and I don't know how else to say it.
What happened to Denard was he no longer threw to wideopen wideouts on 15 yard in routes because the D was so worried about him running. Take for instance Ohio State. Notice Tate had no problem shreding them up his freshmen year because they respected him throwing the football. They don't respect Denard so he has tight little windows to throw it in and he doesn't have to arm or the accuracy to put it in there.
No he really is not very good in a system that doesn't require him to throw these little dump passes and gimmicks to his strenghts. When he has to make the throws that your average college QB has to make he can't because of all the reasons already stated. There is a reson no one recruited him as a QB outside of UM, UCF, and WVU. Now that he is required to make actual reads, progress down to second and third wideouts, and have good fundamentals he can't because he is not a college QB. The proof is in the pudding and if you really want to go back and look at what he has done against good teams you will see when the D sells out to stop him running he can't make the throws. SImple as that.
With all of that being said, I don't have an aswer for us right now because as I previously said Devin is not ready. If Denard struggles then he should be replaced is all I am saying.
I really like Denard's smile.
My old classmate Brett Basenez at NU threw more interceptions than touchdowns (or close to it) his 1st year starting in Coach Walker's system. He definitely got worse as the season went on. Two years later his offense avg'ed more than 500 yards per game, one of the greatest ever in the BIG. My point is that the "light goes on" as Borges says, at different times for QBs and its a combination of a LOT of factors. We just don't know what Borges thinks he knows about the development of DR and DG. We will see what happens from here but QB in the BIG is an extremely complex thing that takes a while to master. For a more local example, look at Henne fr year vs so year. The coaches stuck with him rather than panic about a so. slump and bench him for Gutierrez (sp?). They must have had a reason right?
Here's one fan who agrees with you.
Denard is in year one in the new system. There's a mild possibility that he, like Devin, will be better next season.
Understandable, but in game 11 of the season he should be improving and he is not.
Denard has indeed gotten better at passing throughout the season. The other day, he was looking pretty solid until he came out with an injured hand. Last week he passed pretty well and was crippled by drops (check the ufr). It seems like he's getting much better at the progressions. The issue is that our opposition has been better. Early in the year our passing consisted of chucking up jump balls. It's definitely improving.
you're kidding right? Entering the Illinois game he was completing 47% of his passes in the previous 3 games with a lot of turnovers.
Michigan is 8-2. Quit whining.
Illinois was also undefeated at one point and thought they had no problems. I am only saying that Denard is not playing well and if he plays poorly should be sat.
This is one of the reasons Brian does UFR's. Denard was crippled by drops last week when 5(!) passes hit the ground that should have been caught. That certainly affects completion percentage.
Borges has been saying it all year, he's a first year QB in his system and there are *always* growing pains. We can definitely expect some improvement over the offseason.
I have no problem with that, but just as the defense had some early struggles they have settled in and improved. Denard is not getting better 11 games into the season, that is not a good sign. I watched Byron Leftwhich take over his sophomore year at Marshall and struggle very badly for the first 5 games or so, then he started improving game by game. I don't see the growth with Denard, no progression at this point.
when someone has to introduce their statement by clarifying, "I have no problem with [reality]", it's going to be good
Denard finishes this season and goes into the offseason as the starter. Full stop.
If Devin comes out of the camps next year as the #1 QB I'm fine with that. If Denard comes out of the camps next year as #1, I'm also fine with that.
Some people need to sit back and enjoy 8-2 under a first year coaching staff instead of making trouble over the depth chart.
I mentioned this in the game thread yesterday, but most people tend to forget that against purdue last year, Denard was so atrocious that Rodriguez, a guy fighting for his job, benched him for several series.
Denard has produced some great Michigan memories, but at times he has also been a hindrance.
People blame play calling, but the opposition knows Denard's legs are what is most dangerous, too. Teams that are athletic enough to match him have made him look quite poor.
All that being said, I think Denard detractors need to just accept it for what it is, because, this year anyway, Michigan is only going as far as he can take them.
I hope he steps up.
Very well said and I agree. Is Devin the answer, not this year. Should Devin go in if Denard struggles, sure, but Denard in game 11 should be better. I'd love for Denard to make me look really stupid.
To come up with the correlation of people calling for Devin that will be calling for Shane when Devin starts?
(Sub-study: how many of the same were asking for Henson to replace Brady).
We need to go make a late push for Kiel and land him. So we can have an epic Gardner, Kiel, Morris bitchfest in a few years.
A retro-QB bitchfest:
"Dreisbach vs. Griese"
The eventual winner of that battle, Griese, was something of a turnover machine himself until 1997. He threw 10 interceptions sharing time with Dreisbach in 1995. In 1996, he only threw two in limited playing time (61 passes total), but one of those was a pick 6 that arguably provided the winning points in a 17-14 Outback Bowl loss to Alabama.
Unfortunately stats.ath.umich.edu doesn't appear to have fumble stats for Griese's career.
Coach Borges said earlier in the season that you'd have to be crazy to take the ball out of the hands of someone who produces 300+ yards of O per game. I wish he would let DRob continue to play in a way that he can produce this much per game on a regular basis.
Denard is the QB, until he's not the QB. With that being said use the short pass game to get him in a rhythm and if we run that diamond formation and DRob is in motion, do something crazy and give him the ball, they haven't put it in his hands yet from that formation. I'm betting he could get to the outside pretty quick.
I've been hoping for that (Devin throwing to Denard to get Denard in space), and I can think of three things that might be holding them back:
(1) desire to save it for Nebraska/OSU
(2) fear of injury to Denard
(3) knowledge that Denard has really terrible hands (and the throw could go backwards, making an "incompletion" a fumble)
I wouldn't think that this would be all that surprising to Nebraska/OSU, which raises questions about (1), and with the right WR blocking scheme, I'm not sure that the injury risk is much higher than on a Denard run, so (2) doesn't seem right. Honestly, (3) wouldn't surprise me.
Can't have concrete hands if you're taking shotgun snaps almost every play.
I'm not trying to be an ass here but I think taking shotgun snaps is a lot different than catching a ball with someone in your face trying to break you up from catching the ball. This start Gardner stuff is spiraling out of control.
Spiral? Did it come from Devin or Denard?
The fuck did Denard do?
...just thought I'd throw that "stat" in there.
"you can neg away, but it is true that half the people on this board have been talking about replacing Robinson seriously since the Illinois game."
Nothing helps your point more than just making shit up.
And Illinois was like 30 hours ago.
We just get past that Daily Penn State Thread shit, and now we're gonna have to start creating Daily Non-Existant QB Controversy Threads.
What exactly do you call him steping up in the pocket hitting Tay perfectly in stride for a TD on a 3rd and 12 only up 10 and Illinois closing the gap quick?
Can make the throws. It's an issue of consistency. Also, in trying to develop a new skill set (and please your coach) I think he also has moved mentally away from his natural historical tendency to run when the receiver isn't there. As these things all gel, I think there is chance he becomes more dangerous than originally. Hopefully that happens this week?
I love Denard. My KIDS blindlyworship him and wear his jersey 3 days a week all year round. But the footwork, decisions and lack of production in the past three games + B1G play last year have been terrible.
I think the staff know they need to pull him and are giving Devin plays to try to let him break out. That's tough without getting in a rhythm. Who knows what they told Denard to get him to stay this year. Also his speed is not what it was early last year. That is obvious.
My belief is that next year Devin and Bellomy duel for the job and Denard becomes Hersey Harvin and opens up a new chapter of Denard so he can get recognized as something other than a QB and a play on Sunday's making millions some day. I see him as a great return man and flanker type like Breaston. I wrote about this last November and was sent to Boliva--but I enjoyed the vacation.
Denard will start the rest of the year if healthy. But I think that's it. The team and Denard move on and
The last 4 games.
Passing Yards-144 yds per game
avg rush per carry-3.3
This is not a player who is averaging 300+ yards of total offense right now
Russell Wilson transferred to Nebraska this week to play Michigan? Damn it!
First of all, I don't even know what to say to the "Denard has'nt done jack for Michigan" comment. That's just poppycock, is what that is.
Second, and I'll type slow for you, no one is saying that if the reanimated corpse of Joe Montana were Denard's backup we wouldn't give the guy some run. It's that Devin is not ready yet. Denard gives us the best chance to win, and until he doesn't, he should start.
In a nut shell you just said how I feel. Sumed it up. We all want Denard to run for a150 and pass for 200 every game but it's not happening and there is reson for concern.
If you're going to whine, please form a solution to issue that you see as a problem. K thx.
I'm tired of the blind faith to Denard he is a great kid and a good football player but he has'nt done jack for Michigan so I don't care if he is benched or not.
You can say plenty of stuff about Denard's play this year... but to say your leading rusher, leading passer, and leading scorer "he hasn't done jack for Michigan" takes a special level of Derp.
Besides that, this is a kid who has been pummeled like a pinata for the last season and a half, who CARRIED the team like a 185 pound pack mule last year, who stuck around for what would obviously be a difficult transition away from his skill set, and who been the best student ambassador this school has seen in a long time.
Fuck I hate people sometimes.
I'm one of the few who wished we'd see more Devin.. HOWEVA! I agree with everything you wrote. Saying Denard hasn't done jack for Michigan is terribly stupid.
Blue in South Bend:(paraphrase) It's official, I prefer the hit and miss Denard led offense to whatever this is. (1 second before Devin throws a perfect pass for a TD on 3rd and 13)
lack of Big Ten Titles, National Championships, Rivaly wins, and wins and top 25 opponents with Denard at QB clearly are 100% Denard's fault. Come on, man, this arguement comes down to a simply question- who do you think is the qb that gives us the best chance to win?
He's played 1 full season, so he is 0-1 in National Championships and Big Ten Titles (will be 0-2 unless we win out and get some help from IN and NW). Denard is 2-3 in rivalry games. What was Henne's record for all those? He won more games against top 25, but he also had about 2.5 more games than Denard. Did you want to bench him too?
Every QB leads their team in TO, BTW.
I actually remember some people clamoring for Henne to be benched after the 0-2 start. I also remember some people calling for Carr to be fired....
We generate a lot of negative karma as a fanbase TBH....
"who do you think is the qb that gives us the best chance to win?"
The next game? Edge to Denard.
The problem is that I think Devin has a much higher ceiling at this point and will improve at a much faster rate in this system. He needs PT to improve. So if Devin were getting the starts, I'm not sure that he couldn't "give us the best chance to win" sooner rather than later.
Unless Denard makes dramatic improvement in the passing game (like he did from year 1-2) he will not be the starting qb next year. Even if he does I expect it to be a battle for the job with Devin.
I think the coaches feel the same way and we're being introduced to Devin slowly as he's being groomed.
Congratulations! You've written a serious contender for the annual King of Belch Award honoring the most ignorantly asinine comment of the year on MGoBlog. Your careful attention to grammar and punctuation has only improved your chances. Good luck!
This thread would be equally thought-provoking if the content was simply "16"
This thread would be equally thought provoking in the content were "Grandama got run over by a reindeer."
Grandma, who would apparently be able to walk home from our house on Christmas Eve faster than Denard if some on this board are to be believed.
Why are we talking about next year? I want to win the three remaining games this year . Denard looks lost too many times and his throwing mechanics are off; where is his swager? The team is the theme not Denard. If he can't run and is coughing it up he should sit.
Where is his "swager" indeed...also, "the team is the theme?" If you are representative of the level of intellectual discourse from the "Start Devin" set, then Denard will likely be starting in perpetuity...
Who on this board thought Denard would struggle with the coaching change?....I'm waiting.
Who thought that the said struggles would likely cost us a few games?...Still waiting.
We are 8-2 with the the possibility of having a double digit win season despite Denard's "failures". I don't know what games everybody else has been watching, but it seems that Borges has been calling games that fall more in line with what he wants to implement, and despite that, we are winning. I will be man enough and admit that I was bitching with some of the playcalling as of late, but I do realize that this is a work in progress.
I have a dream.... that one day all Michigan fans will unite and realize that we dont make these choices and this bitchfest is old... but hey for the hell of it ill throw in my two cents.
I think that who ever plays QB should play QB. Im down with who ever hoke wants to line up. At this point Gardners sample size is too small to compare to denards.
I love Denard as much as anyone. But reality check. He's at less than half his rush totals from last year, because Borges wanted to ease his rushing burden and make a passer out of him right? Well, he's 1,000 passing yards behind last year and has already thrown 1 more pick than all of last year. So he's almost 2,000 yards behind last year's combined clip, and what makes it worse is the UM D has given the offense way more time by minimizing long drives by the opposition that were so common last year. Love Denard, but damn.
The better chunk of the Ill game where Ill D dropped 8 in the box and dared Denard to throw, and we were like -19 over our last 12 rushing attempts, boy that was great fun... All I could think of was Borges was doing it to milk clock with a 17 pt lead, but it was hideous to watch.
He's our QB, and I love him to death, but until he and Borges take their game up a notch, I have little faith we'll score much at all vs Neb and OSU. I'll be thrilled if we win either game.
Regardless, thanks to our D we are 8-2. While Denard's regression has cost the O by say, -2 on a 10 scale compared to last year, the D's improvement is like a +5, so we are net +3 and thus 8-2. 8-4 is a great start for Hoke if it comes to that, but dammit I want us to beat OSU so bad.
I really don't understand this argument ..This seems to come up more and more..The bottom line is Denard gives us the best chance to win PERIOD ......Hey here's an idea,let's get behind our QB and give him full support ...GO BLUE!!!!!
It's very difficult to understand an argument when you just throw shit out there and provide no data. Great scientific mind at work there, to be sure.
In any event, there isn't a discussion to be had on this really - Denard is the team's leading passer and rusher, and that offense is better with him in the middle of it. If it should be the case that, as the team gets deeper into Borges' system, that the starting job is Gardner's at some point, then I will assume he earned that. Right now, it's Denard Robinson's job, and we're 8-2 with two winnable games left. Overall, the passing issues and the reads aside, I will say that he is contributing more than his fair share.
we still score a ton of points with Denard in leading the offense (especially if it's a spread offense). You might not like that the turns the ball over a lot, but we're 8-2 so stop whining. Most every FBS school would love to have a QB like Denard
This is a depressing thread. I'm pretty disappointed in the people who are calling out Denard, especially the one who said Denard hasn't "done jack" for the team.
I remember Bo's words - we don't talk about each other, we support each other - and so should you, Denard critics.
I would say the effort on both the players' and coaches' sides during this year of transition to a completely different brand of football has been nothing short of heroic.
But when you've got spread offensive personnel lined up in an I-form = nahgannaworkhereanymoreanways. MANBALL doesn't really fit the script quite yet. Denard is an amazing spread option quarterback. He is a less than amazing MANBALL quarterback. His value has been diminished, though I think Borges & Hoke have done a good job adapting to what Denard does well at times. This was never going to be Rich Rod's offense & Mattison's defense. That's just not Borges/Hoke's modus operandi.
In a transitional year, I will happily take 8-2 at this point. Those who are complaining simply aren't being realistic.
I don't think this phrase means what you think it means. (sorry if you were joking and I missed the reference). 'Avec moi' means 'with me'. Au revoir is probably what you were looking for.
1) We miss Tate on offense this year, as an experienced and decent back-up available to come in if Denard is hurt or having a bad day throwing the ball. In 2010, Tate had a fairly decent year overall. Last year's offense had that as an option, this year our only option is Gardner. The idea to develop Gardner is that he is never more than 1 play from being our QB. A smart O-coordinator wants to have both his starter and back-up ready and improving.
2) Denard has had a couple of injured hands/wrists/etc this year. I really think that some of his issues might be injury related as well for this year. The new Fort Schembechler is not going to say a lot about it, so I just think that might be part of turnover issues, especially some of the fumbles as well.
Back-up QB's are always the supposed saviors on football teams, just ask Illinois about Scheelhause and O'Toole. Usually, the real issues are elsewhere whether offensive line or receivers or whatever. We better hope that Gardner does not get put into that position against Nebraska or OSU, as it will mean Denard is healthy and playing better.