Denard as the starting qb...
Am I wrong in thinking that a lot of Michigan football fans think that Denard Robinson is going to become the starting quarterback during the 2010 season? From what I saw, he did a marvelous job but against the second string defense while Tate Forcier didn't look nearly as good against the first team defense. Does anyone beside me think that the first string defense is and will be much improved for the 2010 season and beyond? Does anyone think that Tate has been lazy or taking an extended vacation which has kept him from making greater progress during the off season? My feeling is that Tate, last year's quarterback, has accepted the challenges and has worked hard on what the staff has put before him and will continue as the starter for the entire season. What do you experts expect?
I feel like I don't watch the practices or workouts, so I have no idea.
Howeva, I do think that Robinson has more potential when fully developed than Forcier. How the development goes is anyone's guess.
Your first sentence says it all.
Tate lead the team past ND, and dragged them into OT against MSU. Denard is nothing if not explosive. I am content to let the coaches decide their man. Whoever takes the snaps this year, I feel confident in the QB situation. All this speculation is just a way to kill time until that first kickoff.
"I feel confident in the QB situation"
It's rather comforting to return to thinking this way about the quarterback situation.
I am content to let the coaches decide their man.
Well thank goodness for that. Now if we can get all the other folks around here to be content with letting RR decide without having to call them first.
...I just dont get away with posting snarky stuff iike this. I prefer some wit with sarcasm.
Tate led the team past ND. (Common mistake, but it bugs me.)
no. yes. no. cain't take a stab at the last query because I ain't no expert
Am I wrong in thinking that a lot of Michigan football fans think that Denard Robinson is going to become the starting quarterback during the 2010 season?
You are not wrong. A lot of Michigan football fans think this. Others don't, though.
From what I saw, he did a marvelous job but against the second string defense while Tate Forcier didn't look nearly as good against the first team defense.
I think a lot of people would agree with you. Others might not.
Does anyone beside me think that the first string defense is and will be much improved for the 2010 season and beyond?
I bet there's at least one other person besides you who thinks this. I'm not sure how many, though.
Does anyone think that Tate has been lazy or taking an extended vacation which has kept him from making greater progress during the off season?
I bet there's at least one person who thinks this. I'm not sure how many, though.
My feeling is that Tate, last year's quarterback, has accepted the challenges and has worked hard on the challanges the staff has put before him and will continue as the starter for the entire season. What do you experts expect?
I am not an expert, but I think that he will start at least some of the games. I'm not sure about all of them, but at least some.
It may mean nothing, but some of the Rivals mods have been hinting that Tate hasn't been taking the offseason too seriously. Skipping voluntary practices etc. I've also heard some murmurings that support this take. Hopefully it is incorrect because we're definitely going to need both guys at 100% this year.
And on the other hand, the guy is recovering from a serious shoulder injury. He could be taking the time off to heal that.
I actually feel kinda bad for Tate. This is purely my opinion, but I think Forcier will take the first snap against UConn. Of course nobody in the stadium would "Boo" but I do think majority of the fans would be disappointed that Shoelace wasn't starting.
There were rumors of Tate transferring after Rodriguez started trying Robinson a little more at QB. Imagine if Shoelace actually starts some games. The rumor-mill will explode.
I want to win, period. Tate, Denard, Gardner...Kennedy. Just win.
I actually feel kinda bad for Tate. This is purely my opinion, but I think Forcier will take the first snap against UConn. Of course nobody in the stadium would "Boo" but I do think majority of the fans would be
This is where a lot of people are mistaken. 99.8% of Michigan fans (or any college football fans) do not pay ONE LICK OF ATTENTION between January and September. They do not know jack didley about the spring, Robinson's development, and so on. 99.8% of fans are NOT MGoBlog people. When we kick off against UCONN, if Robinson goes out there, the first think that 99.8% of people will think is, "Oh great. Time for an interception."
Exactly. 99.8% of the fans who don't read MGoBlog also watched Tate throw 5 picks against Ohio State in the final game of the season.
I still think the majority of our fanbase wants to see Denard line up at QB rather than Tate. Even though Shoelace threw way too many INT's, fans saw his speed. Even those who don't follow Michigan's offseason are hoping that Robinson can get enough of the offense down to showcase what a true burner looks like in Rodriguez's system.
I don't think this is the case. I was with a bunch of guys a graduated with (from UM) lately and we were talking football. None of them read Mgoblog, but I told them they should. When I brought up that I thought Denard would start this fall, they looked at me as if I said Henne was our starter. Not a single one of them gave it any credence, told me I was crazy, and they all said Denard hadn't even crossed their minds. One of them actually asked if Denard was even still playing QB. Needless to say, they all assumed Tate would start, and certainly were all in favor of that being the case.
As was said above, most people think Tate is the guy. All of the MSM previews list Tate as the starter, and the ones who even mention Denard go no further than saying he will push Tate for the spot - none of them predict Denard as the starter.
Hell, even a good handful of the MGoBlog folk maintain that Tate will start. I'm quite sure this is the prevailing opinion of the M fan masses.
I think if you are a MGoAddict/Observer than you have the tough decision of deciding between Tate and Denard.
If you aren't, than I think you would be scared to know that Tate is the starter, and frightened if Denard trots out to throw.
It's such a tossup at this point. Without seeing them on a day-to-day basis it's almost impossible to say. The coaches probably have a decent guess of who will start in September, but nothing will be set in stone until then. Both players need to make huge jumps in their game from last season to be considered top-notch B10 quarterbacks (Denard moreso than Tate, but both nonetheless), and it will depend who does a better job on that.
For some in depth analysis of the situation, please follow the following link
http://mgoblog.com/diaries/its-all-about-denardI want to preface everything by saying that I love Tate and Denard, and whoever starts will be supported by me. My worry has always been that of complacency by RichRod. I remember at the end of the Ohio State game, a reporter asked a question about being humbled. RichRod responded that he was tired of being humbled. So I wonder if RichRod sees Denard as a "quick fix" to get his reputation and his winning ways back on track. I think Denard is an amazing athlete, but I would love to see a week-in week-out evolution of the spread offense based on the premise that the athletes coming to Michigan were 10x the athlete going to WVU, Clemson, Tulane or Glenville St. I would love to see both QB's on the field drawing LB's and Safetys close to the line, only for Tate to throw down to Stonum, Hemingway, Stokes, or one of the talented freshmen. Am I the only one who has had this thought?
BTW, best site on the freakin internet
Denard is project, an otherwordly talent when it comes to speed an elusiveness but clearly a step down from Tate when it comes to reading defenses, mechanics and release. Both are confident and clearly Tate has some swagger to him (when not injured like hell). In a million years I can't imagine RichRod perceiving Denard to be a "quick fix" given the limitations he has presented. Denard appears very coachable and his progress was evident at the spring game against the second string.
RichRod made his reputation at WVU with BCS wins; he's not going to get it back starting an unproven sophomore. Denard will see the field but so will Tate. RichRod surely understands that the road to redemption starts at 8 - 4 minimally.
Wrong word, dude.
RR couldn't have responded better to the humble question. I'm sick of being 'humbled' too! I'm ready to take over the B10, I'm ready to feed OSU dirt every down, I'm ready to take away MSU's winning streak, I'm ready to beat bottom feeders by 3 TDs, I'm ready to instill fear in every team we face, I'm ready to return to the BCS, and I'm ready to sing the alma mater at the end of the game with a smile on my face instead of a stiff upper lip.
Why are all these questions so open ended? What is your motivation?
There are less than two months to get this nailed down. Duh.
Does anyone think that Tate has been lazy or taking an extended vacation which has kept him from making greater progress during the off season?
Yes, it's called recovery from a shoulder injury. I know that a lot of people LOVE Denard's upside. Personally i believe that it will be the QB by committee. That's just my uneducated guess. Though i will wait and let the position coaches along with RR decide that. I do not care who starts, I just want whatever it takes to win.
Isn't the best situation for Michigan exactly that: Forcier and Denard splitting time? We tried it (vaguely) last year, but it was sort of stymied by the fact that Denard couldn't really, you know, throw the ball. If Denard IS a legitimate passing option then splitting time between the QBs could really open up our offense. That might be a big if, but people keep saying Denard can throw now, so...
works best wrt taking snaps from the starting center. More important than which QB is the reduction in TOs this season. I think that is one reason we are seeing more under center snaps.
there are no rules anymore. Florida won a National Championship with two quarterbacks, (Leak and Tebow) so it can be done.
if you have two different, highly talented players, you find a way to play them both. Injuries may make the coach's decision on some days. RR's offense is going to require the QB to take some hits, not just hand off and hope not to get sacked when passing. Both need to be ready to take over
If Shawn Springs hadn't slipped, Ohio State might have ended up #1 with Stanley Jackson and Joe Germaine sharing quarterback duties. As it was they went 11-1.
Ahh, the ol' Tate v. Denard thread. Classic.
What I would find reassuring is a weekly confirmation that says "Molk as starting Center"
I don't know when it'll happen, but I am absolutely confident that before Devin Gardner takes over the starting QB position, it'll be from Denard Robinson. Why? He's Pat White with a cannon arm. Except he's Pat White, but shifty. If he can improve accuracy (which we all saw the perfect pass to Roundtree in the spring game), his legs and arm strength will carry him into the starting position. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Denard develops into a better QB than Gardner - not to say Gardner won't be great, that's just the kind of ceiling I see for Denard.
You can coach reading defense, you can coach accuracy (at least some), and you can coach the offense. You can't coach raw athleticism - I see Tate mostly as a holdover until Denard truly develops. I expect that to be midseason this year, but honestly who knows when? It could be at Uconn, and it could be next year. But my money's on Denard being something special.
Also, he's fucking fast.
... your last sentence says it all, albeit a tad coarsely.
Where I just drop my beer when watching Denard is in the first second or two when he starts to run. It's not just speed, it's the breakout fluidity, an innate sense of where to go to (a) advance the ball and (b) make defenders miss.
In the open field, it is like he is operating on Windows 7 and the defense on Windows Me. (Maybe not the best analogy).
He had to stop quite a few of his runs in the Spring Game because he was touched. I think at game speed and Saturday Rules he wouldn't have been stopped.
Ah, let's go back to Denard's first snap, when you go to 1:20 in the video, you see it was made by his first few moves after the fumble. Speed completed the run; innate sense of his place in space is what makes it possible.
(And F"ing Craig James has to compare his speed to TP. What a tool!)
My favorite part of that whole video is the replay where you see the rubber pellets being kicked up as he slides to change direction. Hopefully the new turf is designed to allow him to cut as hard as he wants.
OK, I'll bite. I wasn't going to respond to this topic for the 50th time this off season, but the concept that you can just teach someone reading defenses and being accurate drives me crazy. It isn't like they just give you the Joe Montana Rosetta Stone. I only played QB in H.S., and a little H.S. at that, but I can tell you that it is a lot harder to read defenses during a play than it is watching Jawarski break it down on film Sunday morning. Also, being accurate in practice or playing catch or in a spring game against a defense you have practiced against for 3 weeks and isn't allowed to hit you is a lot different than being accurate against OSU on the road with a week to prepare and a 260 lb linebacker bearing down on you. I have nothing against Denard and if he truly is that much improved and starts, I will cheer for him and be as excited as the next guy about his potential, but I am not ready to annoint him quite yet. I have seen Tate play the position against Notre Dame and against a big rival (MSU) on the road. Unless Denard REALLY impresses during fall practice, I would say go with the known commodity. There is more to being a QB than being fast and big and throwing hard (look up: just about any QB for the Raiders since Jim Plunkett).
I agree with you on Tate. It's one thing to do it in practice but it's a whole different story in a pressure situation with the game on the line.
I know the Iowa game was only one example of DR being in a pressure situation and it's unfair b/c he didn't play much that game, but look what happened.
Tate led us from behind against a better team in ND and almost won on the road.
I am pulling for Denard, but I see Tate starting and it going by committee like everyone said. I think it's extremely important for DR to be able to hit a few passes early in the game to open up the field and keep the Defense honest.
but the concept that you can just teach someone reading defenses and being accurate drives me crazyThis may drive you crazy, however, these things are teachable and QB's get better at them with study and repetition. Denard's speed on the other hand, is not teachable, and by all accounts of those who attend practice, Denard's speed is extraordinary. I, Like you thought Tate was very good last season. But, when I hear all these reports from current and former players, regarding Denard's extraordinary speed, I give it a high degree of credence, and spekalate that Denard may be a special special player. May the best man win!
Tate played better than DRob pretty much all of last year, and I don't think one good performance against our 2nd team defense is enough to say that DRob should start. Our first team D isn't even that good. I think we'll have a much better idea of where these guys stand once fall practice starts, but I do think that whoever is 2nd string will still get a lot of playing time.
... have a guideline that i like to stick to, I never get hyped on a player based on a spring game performance. I think their both great players but it's to hard to tell now, not taking a shot at either players abilities but the spring game numbers are deceiving. The D drops into the same coverage every down, no blitzs. lets wait and see how the summer practices go before we name a starting qb
Rodriguez said the plan was th develop Denard at QB and then put him all over the field. I believe that continues to be the plan. Therefore, that is what I will expect till my coaches tell me otherwise.
I love Tate, but his greatest strength seems to be his greatest weakness, and that is his scrambling and improv abilities. Sometimes this worked, but more often than not, it resulted in him running around, losing the football, and getting dragged down behind the line of scrimmage. We tend to remember the great plays more vividly and so they are disproportionately represented in our memories of what he did for us. But given the importance of gaining positive yards on each play, and keeping TOs to a minimum, I think Denard may be better suited than Tate in the long run.
Rich must have known about Tate's injury. Maybe not at first, but certainly later. Ergo, he did not think Denard was ready to play full time. He must have felt he had no choice but to play Tate at 75%.
I think it unlikely Denard completely displaces a healthy and improved Tate this year, but if the latter is banged up or is fucking up, you'll see Denard full time. I mean, Denard didn't really get a chance to prove himself last year -- the most he had was 5 pass attempts, once -- he wasn't ready. This year will be different.
Fans (well, me, anyway) liked the fact Denard was fearless when in the games last year, willing to take chances and generally give it his all, despite not really knowing what he was doing -- a lesser player would have been tentative or intimidated, but not him.
I know everyone is so eager for the season to start that we will probably see this thread 10x more before Sept 4th (I hope not). Although Tate's scrambling often led to turnovers, we put everything on Tate and we shouldn't. Would Tate have been better if his O-line remained intact for the entire season? Would Tate have been injured if the O-line was a group of un-injured seasoned veterans? You bet he would be and we would likely not be having this conversation (again).
It's too soon to say who the starting QB will be and quite frankly, although I am interested, I don't really care. I will cheer for whoever gets the nod to start, and continue to support the one who doesn't. I am a fan. I will cheer even louder when Molk returns to the line and we can have some real consistency on our line.
to note that Tate has more experience. If Robinson starts I am tickled to death because he has more physical upside, and it means the coaches are really confident in how he has progressed. By all accounts his football IQ is extremely high, too, but even the coaches don't know how he'll handle gameday.
This is a fun topic to bat around, but I'm with others in just being happy that the QB situation is going to be better--a lot of good things should follow from that.
ball security and making the right reads. I think Tate would be the first to tell you that he had too many giveaways last year. If he can control that (and by the way, most true freshman QBs do turn the ball over a lot), I think Tate could be really good. Denard also could be really good, but there is less of a portfolio to look at. The thing that makes me the happiest for UM is that there will be true QB competition for the first time in the Rodriguez Era. Trust in the staff and let them decide who gives them the best chance to win. That's what we all want.
Neither qb was very good at it last year. Tate frequently made the wrong read and was still able to get positive yardage out of it. Denard was so bad at it in practice, he wasn't allowed to try it in a game. As much as I want a downfield passing game, whoever is better at running the read option will get the most playing time. It sets everything else up. I expect that both will get a lot of playing time.
No doubt about it, this is the bread an butter. Both guys are quick and elusive, and even though Denard is more of both, whichever guy can run this play better will start. Tate is fast enough that if he can make the right read on this play close to 100% of the time, we will gain a lot of yardage, both via this play, and through the plays that this will set up.
That said, if Denard proves he can run this play close to perfectly, no one stands a chance.
was outstanding for a true freshman. Add in some TE's who catch the ball and a bit better blocking from the OL. A defense that doesn't force him to be under constant pressure to move the ball. He was a leader and actually knew where people were supposed to be. Neither are as easy as they seem to be for a TF
He's a great QB who needs to improve in some areas, and there are too many weapons at wideout to revert to a Pat White type offense. Tate takes the next step this year, and the message the coaches sent this spring was that he wasn't getting there fast enough.
That said, Denard earned his spring playing time and is simply too good to keep off the field. Both play. It works and the QB position is much better this year
Ummm... I think you are describing exactly what RR wants to do. Run the read option all day and pass a few times to keep them honest. The read option is the bread and butter of this offense, and having a true running threat at QB will change everything. This is why I think Denard is in the driver seat for the starting job. Having a guy who can take it to the house at any moment touching the ball on every play will make opposing defenses leary. This will open up the bubble screen, corner, and fade routes like we haven't seen so far under RR.
If Tate wins the job, it's because Denard doesn't know enough of the offense to run it by himself. I really think it's Denard 100% or they spit time about 50/50 - As for seeing both QB's on the field at the same time? I don't think it will happen because we need all the QB's to stay healthy for 13 games this year.
... didn't RichRod say after the spring game that Denard was ahead of where Pat White was at that same point in time?
I think we call that a clue.
I will say one thing. If Denard could do 50% of what he did in the spring game in conference play, Big Ten DCs will start having nightmares.
I freely admit I am taking frequent long hits off the DXR spring game crack pipe.
So what, it's summer, I can't wait for Sept 4th and I am very very tired of the unending OT stuff.
He fast. He very very fast.
So fast, he can win the Big Ten 60m in less time than it takes to do 10 bobblehead clicks...
though that will happen from time-to-time. I meant both will play QB.
Denard turning the corner will be electric, and safer, and agreed comfortable to RR. But Tate can throw the ball downfield in a way that Denard just can't yet. Pair it with the interior running game Schilling, Molk, and Omameh will provide this year and you also spread the field very effectively this way. And that's what RR wants - a spread, and points from many different directions. BTW Tate can zone read (as Denard can throw)
Tate throw better, run less. Denard run better, throw less. At least today. If you're RR, why would you choose one or the other? Both will work, and create preparation nightmares for opponents