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Denard on kick return

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:34 PM | Yes, (Score:1)
MaizeMN
MaizeMN's picture
Joined: 01/28/2012
MGoPoints: 960

it is,

The risk on that squad is higher; no one who has ever played on the "suicide squad" would dispute this.

L.S.A. '88

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:35 PM | Just one more thing for (Score:2 Normal)
TSimpson77
TSimpson77's picture
Joined: 05/13/2010
MGoPoints: 657

Just one more thing for opposing teams to worry.

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:47 PM | Yes (Score:1 Normal)
mgoballoon
Joined: 09/23/2012
MGoPoints: 1

good coaching.

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:39 PM | If Denard had gotten injured on a return (Score:4 Normal)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 19201

Hoke would find out how fast fans can turn.

Even though he was the backup QB, Drew Stanton sustained a serious knee injury while playing on ST in the 2003 Alamo Bowl against Nebraska, and had to undergo reconstructive knee surgery. There has been plenty of LOL around here over the years about John L. Smith's decision to play Stanton on ST, and deservedly so.

You could make the argument that the danger of Denard suffering an injury returning a kick isn't any greater than running the ball from scrimmage, but one difference is that if the kick goes to another return guy and Denard is running upfield looking to throw a block, it's extremely easy to get blindsided by a gunner looking to lay a big hit on him.


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October 21st, 2012 at 4:43 PM | Hoke would find out how fast (Score:4 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4697

Hoke would find out how fast fans can turn.

And you know what Hoke would say? "While it's very unfortunate how the play turned out, we are going to do our best as coaches to try to win every game." He's not so thin-skinned as to be fazed by a little criticism.

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:39 PM | You guys kidding me? Remember (Score:2 Normal)
JimBobTressel
JimBobTressel's picture
Joined: 11/28/2010
MGoPoints: 36

You guys kidding me? Remember how everyone blew their stack when they realized Countess was lost for the season on punt return converage vs Bama? What if that happened to Denard

ATTN NBA Dads and Siblings: Have brothers / sons on the hoops come-up? 

Michigan = NBA Family U

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:49 PM | Seems a little silly (Score:5 Normal)
macdaddy
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Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 1010

When you have guys like Norfleet, Dileo and Gallon to handle stuff like that.

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:14 PM | None of those guys induce the (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27443

None of those guys induce the kind of attention/fear that Denard Robinson does.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:37 PM | Especially if (Score:1 Normal)
mgoballoon
Joined: 09/23/2012
MGoPoints: 1

he made his presence known.

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:55 PM | It would make sense if (Score:1)
Paps
Paps's picture
Joined: 09/29/2012
MGoPoints: 245

I think it would make sense if you put Denard on kick return at the end of a game or half when you needed to work some magic to get back in a game... but I can't think of a reason why you do that when they did. 

Go Blue. Greetings from SEC country.

http://www.straightupsports1.blogspot.com/

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:38 PM | Confuse the (Score:1 Normal)
mgoballoon
Joined: 09/23/2012
MGoPoints: 1

opponent perhaps?

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:56 PM | He was also on punt coverage (Score:3 Normal)
Drbogue
Joined: 07/22/2011
MGoPoints: 408

He was also on punt coverage in the 3rd quarter

In Hoke we trust...

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October 21st, 2012 at 1:59 PM | To me, the risk vs reward is (Score:1 Normal)
GrowBlue
Joined: 09/15/2011
MGoPoints: 191

To me, the risk vs reward is bad on this decision. What are you going to gain from him being out there? Now what can you lose if he gets hurt?

That argument doesn't hold during his normal particpation in the game, since being a running QB is 'what he does'. Participating in the suicide / kamikazee jungle that is special teams is just too risky.

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:39 PM | I hope (Score:0 Normal)
mgoballoon
Joined: 09/23/2012
MGoPoints: 1

someone asks Hoke this question.

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:02 PM | If Denard got hurt on kick return (Score:2 Normal)
MikeCohodes
MikeCohodes's picture
Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1264

I'd be one of the first in line at Ann Arbor Torch & Pitchfork for the angry mob to storm the coaches' homes.  And I'm sure I wouldn't be alone.  Bottom line, we have enough good kick returners back there that we don't need to risk this with Denard.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:12 PM | It was a trick return... (Score:1 Flamebait)
SpreadGuru
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Joined: 10/17/2008
MGoPoints: 1107

Calm the fuck down!

"Forty-two Big Ten Championships!"

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:40 PM | Everyone is (Score:0 Normal)
mgoballoon
Joined: 09/23/2012
MGoPoints: 1

still excited.

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:20 PM | I'm confused here (Score:5 Normal)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27887

We rammed Denard into the interior of State's defensive line probably 15 times, but putting him on ONE kick return (for which he was probably a decoy) is somehow witchcraft?

And i know some of you are saying, "well, he's our best offensive option, so you have to use him." But if that's the case, why would we leave him on the sideline for a situation in which the coaches think he can help? I get that Denard is important. But leaving any arrows in the quiver in a game like that is stupid.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:59 PM | I've talked with some D1 coaches (Score:2 Normal)
ppToilet
ppToilet's picture
Joined: 04/18/2011
MGoPoints: 777

this year about their thoughts on the new kickoff rules. I was expecting an answer from them along the lines of "well, this is football and they're turning into a pansy game". Instead, they said in agreement that kickoffs are "the most dangerous play in football" where guys accelerate at incredible speeds at each other and where the risk of injury is great.

They were all for the rule changes, so I went to the next logical step and asked if they should just eliminate kickoffs and they said that would be fine with them. I argued that football was dangerous and perhaps more harmful at the line of scrimmage when it comes to CTE, but they said that kickoffs weren't integral to the game and the risk of injury outweighed any benefit it added.

Then again both Woodson and Howard returned kicks and were fine...

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:38 PM | Not a good idea (Score:0 Overrated)
goblueva
Joined: 04/06/2011
MGoPoints: 106

If Denard were to get injured (fingers crossed) on a typical offense play...... Well, that is football. But on special teams? That's just poor decision making. I remember Tyrone Wheatley being injured on punt return. Hurt his shoulder & wasn't the same the rest of the year.

"Some people say soccer is America's sport. I say 'BULLSHIT"!! Football's America's sport!"- Bo Schembechler, Football Camp 1995

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:57 PM | I remember when Charles (Score:3 Normal)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27443

I remember when Charles Woodson got hurt on punt return.  Oh wait - no, I don't.  I also remember Desmond Howard's career ending on a punt return.  Oh wait - no, I don't remember that, either.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:07 PM | Denard wasn't set to be a (Score:1)
goblueva
Joined: 04/06/2011
MGoPoints: 106

Denard wasn't set to be a return man. He was in a position to block. Same as Wheatley. I concede if he were to return, could add a different look. But don't ask him to do something he isn't accustomed or built to do.

"Some people say soccer is America's sport. I say 'BULLSHIT"!! Football's America's sport!"- Bo Schembechler, Football Camp 1995

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:09 PM | If you really think they sent (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
Magnus's picture
Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27443

If you really think they sent Denard out there to block for Norfleet, then...well...you're wrong.  There's nothing else I can say.

Twitter - Recruiting Update: May 20

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:20 PM | This. (Score:4 Normal)
BiSB
BiSB's picture
Joined: 08/15/2009
MGoPoints: 27887

There was exactly zero chance Denard was going to throw a block. The only two possibilities were that Denard would (a) fake the reverse, which poses as much risk as running out to the mailbox, or (b) he actually takes a reverse, which poses about as much risk as an average running play*

*I know kickoff returns are more dangerous than regular plays, but people aren't gunning like 50-yard missiles toward the reverse guy, and the forced change of direction tends to eliminate the dangerous momentum.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

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October 21st, 2012 at 9:12 PM | No, I will hazzard there is (Score:2 Insightful)
08mms
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 1683

No, I will hazzard there is zero chance Denard was asked to block.  That said, Denard for better or worse has not shied away from physical play when he doesn't have the ball...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sagFahEtEdo#t=0m27s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVpE0W0pYaw#t=0m55s

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:55 PM | Seems to me that regularly (Score:2)
Sons of Louis Elbel
Joined: 11/21/2011
MGoPoints: 340

Seems to me that regularly having Denard on kick returns would be too risky, but I've thought for awhile that we should try having him out there in an emergency situation. Like, say for ND's last kickoff at the UTL game: down 3, 30 seconds to play, we need to make things happen FAST. That kick, of course, was a touchback (not a bad outcome for us, IMO - 20 yards, no time off the clock), but if it had been in play in that type of situation I think it'd be worth the risk to have our fastest, best open field runner out there.

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October 21st, 2012 at 2:58 PM | It will be interesting to see (Score:2)
Bluegoose
Joined: 11/08/2010
MGoPoints: 127

if they do it again in the next game. Then if there is a return, we will know.

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:01 PM | I have no problem with this (Score:2 Normal)
Brown Bear
Brown Bear's picture
Joined: 01/10/2011
MGoPoints: 2622

I have no problem with this and actually like it. Something else for coaches to worry about and if he's going to get hurt the probability is much more likely on offense like Magnus and others have said here. We complain when we don't utilize him enough and then complain when we do something else to get him involved. Make up your minds people! Also the people bitching about Countess getting hurt on ST need to watch more football. Starters are on ST all over college football AND in the NFL. I'm a Bears fan and starters play ST here every year and it is one of the reasons that it is always a strength of the Bears. You play to win the game, if injuries happen they happen. It's football.

I poop excellence
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October 21st, 2012 at 3:13 PM | Nice catch I didn't see this (Score:2 Normal)
UM2018
UM2018's picture
Joined: 10/10/2012
MGoPoints: 152

Nice catch I didn't see this during the game. personally I'd like to see him back there sometimes. Maybe not every kick off but when we need something to get us going I think he could definetely help us out back there

-UM class of 2018 

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:39 PM | I dunno how my drunk ass (Score:3 Normal)
AAK15
AAK15's picture
Joined: 01/02/2011
MGoPoints: 188

I dunno how my drunk ass noticed AND took a pic, but hey Michigan Difference I guess

UMich 13

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October 21st, 2012 at 9:15 PM | I'd like him to have one or (Score:1)
08mms
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 1683

I'd like him to have one or two big returns to sit in his portfolio for the draft and possibly a catch or two at slot.  I don't think they would show materially different skills, but I could see that direct demonstration helping some on the fence drafting staff at the next level.

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October 22nd, 2012 at 12:37 PM | those watching at home (Score:1 Normal)
MikeCohodes
MikeCohodes's picture
Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1264

couldn't have missed it unless they were in the bathroom, because the announcers and cameraman explicitly pointed it out for all to see.  I'd imagine at the game it'd be easy to miss though.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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October 22nd, 2012 at 8:06 PM | trolling? (Score:1 Normal)
MikeCohodes
MikeCohodes's picture
Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1264

my prior post was downvoted for trolling.  Can someone please explain what I said or did that earned that downvote?  I dont get the board's voting sometimes.  If I'm doing something wrong I'd like to know what so I don't get downvotes, I'm trying to be the best contributor I can be, so help would be appreciated.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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October 22nd, 2012 at 8:14 PM | Looking at "Users by (Score:1 Normal)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10865

Looking at "Users by MGoPoints", there are about 3,300 users able to moderate any given post; this leads to some ridiculous moderating at times. There was nothing wrong with your post there, IMO, and I upvoted it back to one.

Just a heads up, and I doubt it will happen with what you asked here, but a lot of people will neg posts complaining or even asking about negs (not saying your question was neg-worthy or that you complained, just trying to get some info out there).

Go Blue!

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October 23rd, 2012 at 8:57 AM | Thanks! (Score:2 Normal)
MikeCohodes
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Joined: 08/28/2012
MGoPoints: 1264

I appreciate you letting me know.  Ironically, when I came on here this morning, your post had also been downvoted to 0-trolling as well.  I have since voted you back up to 1 as well.

Twitter:  @MikeCohodes

My Blog - posts on movies, tv, and books; politics; and fatherhood  Updates minimum 3x a week

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:19 PM | You guys act as if teams (Score:5 Normal)
brandanomano
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Joined: 09/05/2009
MGoPoints: 4400

You guys act as if teams would actually kick off to Denard Robinson.

Special Teams means special times!

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October 21st, 2012 at 3:41 PM | It appears that he was (Score:2 Flamebait)
Brown Bear
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Joined: 01/10/2011
MGoPoints: 2622

It appears that he was playing up so it would be a deterrent to kicking short to avoid Norfleet.

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October 21st, 2012 at 4:11 PM | Why wouldn't you want to kick (Score:1)
the Glove
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Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 951

Why wouldn't you want to kick to the starting quarterback? It gives you a huge opportunity to knock him out of the game.

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October 21st, 2012 at 4:15 PM | Even if they did kick it to (Score:3 Normal)
Magnus
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Joined: 07/17/2008
MGoPoints: 27443

Even if they did kick it to him, if Denard were out there to fake a reverse, he probably would have caught the ball and got it to the returner somehow.  Either way, the ball was likely going to whomever they wanted to return it (likely Norfleet).

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October 21st, 2012 at 4:49 PM | so... (Score:1)
ihatSECfans
ihatSECfans's picture
Joined: 02/03/2011
MGoPoints: 239

no one else saw this and just thought, "Oh-- what a good way to make sure MSU just boots it and doesn't try anything tricky like a suprise onsides?" Of course, I am not sure if he was actually in position for that, but I though it was as simple as that. I didn't put too much thought into it though.

"It was open," Toussaint said. "I can't compare this hole to any other holes because I can't remember that but it was a huge hole."

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October 21st, 2012 at 5:05 PM | even Sparty loves Denard now (Score:1)
Lampuki22
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 765

http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Board/93/Denard-is-a-Classy-Kid-13317336

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October 21st, 2012 at 6:44 PM | Magnus (Score:1)
BIGELLY71
Joined: 07/12/2011
MGoPoints: 32

Actually Dennis Dixon got hurt in spaces on a read option trying to make a cut. http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=%2F#/watch?v=PzpOEdUdoM4

But Denard on kick return doesn't brother me one bit. If the coaching stuff feels comfortable with I'm fine

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October 21st, 2012 at 8:18 PM | Stop being babies... (Score:1)
Mr. Yost
Mr. Yost's picture
Joined: 07/25/2011
MGoPoints: 5514

Some of you need to really grow a pair and stop sounding like whining babies with all that "what if."

No one was asking Denard to start returning kicks...if he can help out by acting as a decoy, so be it. It's football. Charles Woodson was our BEST player and he returned kicks...he also played offense.

Denard wasn't returning anything, some of you acting like if he pulled a hammy running in a half circle and taking a fake handoff from Norfleet that "WolverineNation" would've gone crazy. But him running into 6'6 300 lb DTs all game is perfectly fine.

Sack up. Our coaches know what they're doing and they're not going to put our quarterback in danger or harms way.

“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”

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October 21st, 2012 at 10:36 PM | Also (Score:1)
BlueSpice.inSEC.hell
Joined: 02/21/2011
MGoPoints: 115

        -didn't the best running back for MSU return the opening kickoff?  Just sayin...

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October 21st, 2012 at 8:35 PM | I was thinking that it had to (Score:1)
Mwolves25
Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 8

I was thinking that it had to be a musical city miracle type of play. In a game of such familiarity, I would have thought that UM would have been more creative in playcalling, but I didn't see much of that. Maybe this was their one shot at "mixing it up" for a lack of a better term with the hope it was a returnable kick. 

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October 21st, 2012 at 8:38 PM | Or maybe they were crazy (Score:1)
Mwolves25
Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 8

Or maybe they were crazy enough to let Denard run the ball on special teams looking for a big play. If so, I question the point of Norfleet returning kicks then. 

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