I would imagine that his prom date is pretty important.
Demar Dorsey - what are important dates?
I'm glad you got this comment out of the way early. I thought that when I read the title but I was like nope, that is a Bad idea.
I think you'll have your answer the first day of Fall Practice, which is probably the first week of August.
Or, maybe a week after that.
I think this is yet another one of those things in life (like the actual games the players play) that, despite the best efforts of our stat friends, we just cannot pin down with metaphysical certitude until it actually happens.
Didn't know if someone in admissions or the like would have insight, so put up post. I also may have not read prev threads with enough scrutiny, but I don't recall exactly what put him on the cliff edge of non-admission. . . ACT scores, GPA, course completion, or something else. I'm pretty sure there is no necessary cockamamy test in FL as there was in OH with Turner.
Yeah, but a lot has happened since January. If he was qualified then, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
FWIW, there is a test (the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test). Portions of the FCAT must be passed to be eligible for a high school diploma from a public school.
As Demar attends a public school, Boyd Anderson, he would be required to pass portions of the FCAT to be eligible for a diploma. Those portions are typically given during 10th grade, but students who do not pass them on the first attempt are given five additional attempts in which to pass. I have no knowledge regarding whether Demar has passed his FCATs, but it appears that in any event, the FCAT requirement can be waived by inserting appropriate ACT or SAT scores.
would be up there. le do it.
Date with Denise would be even better ;)
is a pretty important date as we will likely see if Dorsey is A-enrolled at UM and on the team and B-good enough to help us in the secondary.
I'm pretty sure he has until the start of fall semester to get his stuff in order if he can.
then we won't know until after the summer is over.
And there's always a reason to retake the ACT. NCAA qualification is on a sliding scale. Meaning the higher the ACT the lower the required GPA.
But thats just to be eligible according to the NCAA. That has no bearing on UM admissions, which likely has much higher standards.
but I worked in an admissions office of a BCS school comparable in academics to Michigan, and while I'm not exactly sure how UM does their athletic acceptances, I imagine it is similar to how our school did it.
Each team had scholarship spots for athletes we deemed standard (GPA above 50% class rank in the high school, ACT above 18) and we also had spots for those we deemed non-standard (GPA below 50% class rank in the high school, but high enough ACT/GPA mix to pass NCAA Clearinghouse). We also had a few athletes who would have been accepted even without their athletic ability (think Vinopal, Roh, etc.). Dorsey would have been one of our non-standard athletes.
The reason admissions does this is to make sure the team has a majority of athletes who have less risk of not making the grades.
The coaches at my school could more or less pick these athletes, and we would accept, barring an extraordinary case (we had one similar to Witty, where the athlete took so long to get cleared by NCAA that we decided he/she would not be able to succeed academically).
UM might do it differently, but doesn't seem likely.
Sorry Ezeh-E next time I will search this site for your wisdom before I post.
In all seriousness, I appreciate your insight into this process. I hope you are right and DD does gain admission. He deserves a second chance in life and a chance to tell all the naysayers to stick it.
I didn't mean for that to be directed at you in particular. I've written it multiple times in multiple recruiting posts pertaining to this topic, and this is actually the first time it's not been ignored, so at least we're getting there.
I guess maybe I'll put together a diary on the topic sometime in June when we're up to our eyeballs in boredom.
Do you have a sense of how many athletes who came in on special admissions remained academically eligible?
and no I do not. However, I don't believe I ever heard of an athlete being academically ineligible during my time there, but that doesn't mean much. I imagine the great majority (+/-90%) at the better academic institutions remain academically eligible throughout their careers, especially if you consider all the sports. If Dorsey gets in, I have faith in the program to keep him working hard academically.
I have worked in admissions here at the U and I'll tell you this. It isn't outright ignoring the standards, but they do have the ability to admit anyone, regardless of grades if they feel it is a good fit or they qualify in some other intangible way. Be it cultural or whathaveyou they will find ways to let them in. The only thing that would hinder this is if he has a criminal record....which he doesn't.
There is a program called the "Summer Bridge" program where they accept under represented minorities and get them in during the summer to help them assimilate before the fall semester. It's kind of a trial period to see if the students can keep their grades up. They are required to meet with advisors in the Bridge Program regularly and have tutoring as well. It's a decent idea actually, it gives people an opportunity to prove themselves rather than just outright denying them.
We can hope and pray he gets his own house in order this year. Having two - three months to hump on his classes may be enough for him to get it done. Also, maybe this will shock him into doing the kind of work he will have to do to stay eligible once enrolled at Michigan.
Since most of the freshman who didn't enroll early will be on campus somewhere between the beginning of June and the beginning of July, we should know at least a little by then.
Does anyone know the first day of training camp?
My gut tells me he'll be in JUCO next season. Kills me to think that way, but unfortunately it's looking true.
Not doubting. Just don't have any idea.
Anything you've heard you've not shared with us? Or just a little pessimism (honesty?) showing through?
Well rivals has stated that the chances of DD playing in Ann Arbor this Fall are remote due to academics. I believe they put the odds at slightly better than 0.
from scout about as much as I trust M-Live
And recruiting have its place in our world(s). I feel we waste enough time, money and energy rating four stars and two stars. I see no benefit in guesstimating his enrollment status and GPA etc. Demar Dorsey will get here when he gets here, if he is our end all and be all equation to success then we are all in trouble
He is arguable the best player we picked up in this class (ESPN #12 player overall) and at a position of extreme need. I’m not a proponent of the MGoBlog freakout slash meltdown combination but this is worth discussing.
Thank you for preaching to me that we should not be discussing the possibility of a potential Michigan football player being on campus on a Michigan Football board. You have opened my eyes...
I believe the NCAA only determines your GPA based on something called "core courses" which I have come to understand as academic basics like math, english, language, etc. So that A in gym class or music class won't count.
I really want this kid to get here and shut up all the critics, both for his sake and Michigan's.
Anyone know Cullen Christian's academic stats? I'm looking forward to his potential immediate impact more than Dorsey's.
Cullen Christian is the one freshman they cannot afford to have anything less than a big contribution from. I can't remember reading a single thing about him having issues qualifying, so hopefully he'll show up day one ready to work.
I have to wonder why this is the case. Cullen Christian is a good player and one that I hope works out well for us. However, Demar Dorsey is the highest rated recruit signed by any big ten team this year according to ESPN. He has the athletic ability and attitude to be a stud. In my opinion, Cullen Christian's play will only be that important if DD does not make it in. If DD comes and is as advertised than CC's play wont matter as much.
but do we have any understanding of his likelihood of being able to transfer here after a semester or two in Kansas?
My understanding is that JUCO credits rarely (if ever) transfer to U of M. I (illogically) fully expect him to be dressed in the maize and blue this year, but if the Angry Michigan Secondary Hating God decides to flex his muscle I hope Demar can join us after Kansas.
Made it here after a stint in JUCO. Didn't work out after that, but if the Fuck Lion can get past admissions, so can Demar.
which is distinctly different than JUCO. There's only been two JUCO kids in the last dozen or so years to come to UM: Austin Panter and Russell Shaw back in 1997. JUCO kids just don't seem to work their way into UM.
Slocum and Chris Perry both went to prep schools. For reasons I can't explain, this gives you a better shot at getting into Michigan.
and this is certainly where I stray from my comfort zone is it has to do with the transferring of classes. Coming out of prep school is just like coming out of high school so your eligibility is measured by that standard. Transferring from JUCO is treated different since your are coming in not as a Freshman. To maintain your eligibility in school you have to be "making progress towards a degree" or some language like that. This is to insure that kids are actually taking real classes and nearly a full load. I believe there is some scale relative to you're a sophmore, junior or whatever. If a two year JUCO kid transfers into UM he is supposed to academically be a Junior. But if none of his classes transfer because of UM standards, then he may not be "making progress towards a degree" since he will essentially have the credits of a Freshman.
Like I said this is just my simple understanding and could be off on this so anyone feel free to jump in.
edit: Looking to the always trustworthy Wiki. This is what I believe trips up JUCO players coming to UM
The 'Progress Toward Degree' rule, commonly referred to as the 40-60-80 rule in Division I athletics, is a piece of National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) legislation designed to increase retention and graduation rates of Division I student-athletes. The legislation, that took effect for first time freshmen in 2003, states that by the beginning of the student-athlete’s third year of college enrollment, they must have completed 40% of the classes required toward a specific degree. This rate of progress toward a specific degree must continue so that by the beginning of the student-athlete’s fourth year, they must have completed 60% and by the beginning of their fifth year, they must have completed 80% of their required coursework toward a specific degree. This legislation, part of many academically oriented rules the NCAA has put into place over the past 20 years, was written in response to several calls for reform of "big time" college athletics including, most notably, the Knight Commission.
I guess the NCAA wouldn’t have liked my 8 year plan.
Thanks for the correction.
Do you know if Russell Shaw was a kid that originally committed to M and had to get his grades up? Not that one case from 1997 would shed much light on the Dorsey situation.
Panter, as far as I know, was only recruited by M after his stint in JUCO (my impression was that he was a JUCO kid less because of academics than because of football.)
but my understanding of Panter was that he was fully qualified out of high school but played 8 man football in high school, or some variation like that.
Deep from the archives of MGoBlog
Michigan commitment #17 is an unusual one: JUCO linebacker Austin Panter. Michigan hasn't taken a JUCO since the days of Russell Shaw in 1997. The reason usually cited is that it's hard to get dodgy JUCO grades to transfer, but Panter maintains a 3.8 GPA at Butler County CC and originally decided on junior college not because of academic concerns but in an effort to get more exposure. His Iowa high school was tiny, playing eight-on-eight, and he had little opportunity to earn a scholarship at a major school thre.
He may have to come to Michigan as a Freshman still, but so what? He'd still get his full eligibility.
A year at JUCO would burn one of his years of eligibility. You have 5 years to play 4 from the time you enter college. JUCO counts as college. You can go to prep school and still maintain your 5 years to play 4 but by going to JUCO he would lose a year ot wo depending on how long he stayed at JUCO, assuming he could even get in at that point.
if he played.
he'll play. That school is the best JUCO football program in the country and that is why he registered there.
But I just don't know.
If you knew you only had at most four years to make a multi million dollar career for yourself, would you want to waste any of those four at a place where your hardest effort won't even get noticed. I'm not saying this is what he'll do, but if I were an elite player with an offer to play at the highest level as soon as I qualified, I'd go to the JUCO, use their training equipment to stay in good shape and football ready, and then be "sick" on game days.
I don't think Demar cares about credit transfer. This is training ground for the NFL for him, not an actual college education (as much as it pains me to say that, and i hope i'm wrong)
If those transferred credits count toward what the NCAA considers "academic progress toward a degree."
If Dorsey doesn't qualify wouldn't he be better served at a prep school instead of going the JC route? With Colton Christian just signing for bball it seems as if the prep school route may be a better way to go.
Hopefully Demar gets all his ducks in a row and is donning the Maize and Blue on September 4. I would love to see him as a freshman AA with a 3.0+ GPA just to stick it to the F!%*p.
Do prep schools offer full scholarships?
I talked to my brother and his friend who are acedemic assistants with a Big 12 school. In the NCAA scale they take each of the 4 sections of the ACT and add them up. If he got an 18 in all four sections then he would have to have a core GPA or 2.375. But that is only if he got all 18's. It could be lower or higher based on each sections scores. I would also hope he was retaking the ACT to try to improve the score so that his GPA didnt need to be as high anyway.
Also could take one summer class if he needed to. Either way none of this is impossible, If he wants this bad enough. Just have to hope he wants to get good enough grades to make it to Ann Arbor.
By reading this thread I have officially put more energy into DD’s GPA than my own.
Can the U of M athletic dept assist him in increasing his GPA or in qualifying (ie tutors) or would this be a violation?
The important date is the first day of fall practice. I hope he makes it to Ann Arbor this season. The secondary needs all the bodies it can get!
As of right now, what are his chances? I've heard from some their's no way he's making it and from others that he will probably be able to come. Does anybody have any information on this?
did you read the thread up to this point? No offense but that is exactly what is being discussed in the previous 60 or so posts. It looks like no one has any definitive information.
it is "they're's" not "their's"
It's there's, not "they're's".
this was pretty obvious actually. If you put a /sarcasm at the end of your post it usually makes it less funny.
Correct me if I am wrong but, "there's" is incorrect too, no? Especially because there is no contraction for "there is".
Everyone always confuses there and their. Rarely do people confuse "they're" with "there". I through it in as a non-sensical attempt at grammar humor. I guess that is rarely a good idea.
Sorry, I never know around here anymore. I would like someone who knows definitively to clarify whether "there's" is correct or not, I really don't know for sure.
You never really know around here.
I am pretty sure that "there's" is incorrect. At least, I wouldn't use it in a paper. I don't think "there's" is a legitimate contraction for "there is" and if you want to show possession you would just use "theirs".
I'd like to bring up how you "through" it in there. Maybe that was intentional, but I don't think so.
I am not an english major like many on this board, but I don't think you can have two apostraphies in one word like "they're's".......I'm pretty sure that is against the rules, no?
I'm not sure. In this instance, you would be correct since there's no such thing as "they are is".
but wasn't 100% sure.
And yes, my understanding is that you can't make any sort of contraction possessive by the addition of an 's, unless the contraction is a proper name.
reason not to name your son "Can't"
What about "y'all's?" As in, "Is that y'all's truck bein' towed away?"
Definitely 2 apostrophes.
groups of people (or singular people that are large enough to be a group if they wanted, which is everyone in the south) may be referred to by the proper name, "Y'all".
Totally ignoring the issue of UofM accepting JUCO classes, if a student-athlete does not qualify per NCAA standards and then participates at a junior college then he/she must 'graduate,' while maintaing a 2.0 GPA, from that junior college to become eligible at a NCAA Division I institution.
- 'Graduate' refers to earning an Associate's degree or equivalent.
- This eliminates going one year to a JUCO, raising his/her grades and transferring.
- This scenario is possible: Year 1 at JUCO, redshirt. Year 2 at JUCO, play. In these two years graduate and be able to transfer with three years left to play.
- D2 Non-Qualifer Rules: Earn Associates or average 12 passed credits per 4 semesters and have a 2.0 GPA.
I am pretty sure these are the rules. I coach college basketball and hope really hope I'm not wrong.
a high school student can actually repeat their senior year at one of the military prep programs. This helps them learn study habits while increasing their chances of getting into a better college or even one of the military academies when past grades are an issue.
As a side note, Valley Forge's Military College along with the US Army will pay for a student to attend two years at VF and then allow the student to transfer to the college of their choice for the last two years-paid. Upon graduation, the student will become a second lieutenant(?) in the United States Army. I believe the pay back time is six years. This provides a student without the means a chance for getting an education.
Besides Dorsey...I thought I heard somewhere that there are a couple of other guys having grade/test issues as well?