the Inner-Outer division split that was on the poll is going to be the final divisions when the whole thing is set in stone...I guess we'll find out soon enough!
Delany willing to consider changes to Legends/Leaders
When did they say that the new division format will be released?
I'll be content with either option that puts M and OSU in the same diviison, though I think the East/West will give us better exposure for recruiting.
probably the same time when they announce the names of the new divisions (if they do change it at all)
Putting Rutgers and Maryland in the same division as Nebraska and making them travel that far regularly compared to the inner schools seems unfair. I actually was pretty happy with the East/West division that was proposed. Regardless, I just want a chance to see Michigan play out in the DC area and for the division names to change. Of course I'm playing with fire because they could possibly get worse...
But it does give the western schools East Coast exposure, which is important for recruiting. As for Maryland and Rutgers, frankly, as newcomers they don't really have grounds to complain.
I'm pretty sure the Big Ten has a certain mileage cutoff for driving vs flying. It might be something like 600 miles, so the inner schools have to drive everywhere while the outer schools get to fly when they face the schools across the conference. One could argue that flying 1000 miles would be easier than driving 500.
I'm not 100% on what I wrote above, but if a team like Nebraska is going to fly anywhere east of Chicago, it really doesn't add too much on the trip whether it is Columbus or State College, PA. If I were a player in Lincoln I'd reather fly to Columbus than drive to Champagne. Being farther away could actually reduce your travel times, is what I'm trying to get at.
the "insider/outsider" divisions.
Outside of Wisconsin (who isn't playing their western brethren regularly these days), I'm not sure it would have wide-spread support from any of the 7 schools slotted for it.
I'd be surprised if we don't have close to a true east/west split.
"Obviously we got some acceptance [with Legends and Leaders], but not as much as we would have liked."
I guess his math is technically correct. 1% = "some acceptance"
It's been said a thousand times by thousands of people here and elsewhere, but I'll say it again. All of this branding and marketing and footprint nonsense is diluting the traditions that make college football unique and may have long term consequences that will negate any short terms gains in the sport's popularity.
Now get off my lawn Mr. Delany.
jim delany, attention whore
Delany's idea for change....
Old crappy names & team alignment were:
Leaders: Illinois, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin.
Legends: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska and Northwestern.
Exciting NEW names and much better team alignment will be:
Legends: Illinois, Indiana, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue and Wisconsin.
Leaders: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska and Northwestern.
Everybody happy now?
(we'll just shove Rutgers and Maryland in there somewhere)
Maryland would have to join the "new" Leaders division so we can still say we have the M's, N's, and Iowa
He does have a point - if the divisions aren't geographic, then you can't have geographic names, and then what are you left with? You can't convince me that "inner" and "outer" are good names for divisions of a conference. I'd be fine with Leaders and Legends if Michigan was in the Leaders division as they should be.
As dumb as it sounds, Dallas is deffinetly not in the EAST, but the NFL sacraficed keeping them in the same division as Washington opposed to renaming the division something dumb like The NFC Cowskingianteagle
The entire rest of the NFL fits a mostly geographic mold and it would've been inane to come up with a whole new naming system just because of Dallas.
I agree that naming our divisions after types of bellybuttons is a bad idea, but Central sounds much more appropriate than inner. We just need a decent sounding regular name for the other division.
The logo and put Michigan and Ohio in the same division.
Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Nortwestern
Penn State (future), Michigan State (future), Rutgers, Maryland, Minnesota
Purdue, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa
*A picture of Clint Eastwood as our logo.*
Tuco made that movie GREAT. Although it would be an ugly logo
I still don't really like everyone's trepidation when it comes to the logo. I really like it. It's simple and recognizeable. I especially like the two-tone nature of it.
I like it more than about any other conference. Just simpler and cleaner.
I agree, I think it's well executed. I like that each school can use their own colors for the logo on the jerseys and basketball courts.
Before the season I was scared Michigan was going to have that light blue, white and black B1G logo slapped on their jerseys. They turned out to be Maize and smaller than I thought. Not a bad look.
I'm on board too, and while people can make fun having the shorthand "B1G" is handy for Internet writing and twitter. I think it's inspired.
Based on # of Big Ten Championships. Northwestern and Purdue are tied at 8 titles. Sorry, Purdue, but I'd rather spend the weekend in Chicago every two years.
Big Ten: Michigan, OSU, Minnesota, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Northwestern
BT Lite: Purdue, MSU, Indiana, PSU, Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland
...in the community
On the practice field.
which two teams we need to add to the B1G to get out of this intermediate, 14-team stage we're going to be stuck in. And also to compensate for the fact that from a football perspective, we just invited the Second Comings of Purdue and Indiana to the conference.
With Notre Dame no longer a viable option, Delany and the AD's should try to do everything they can to kill off the Big 12 once and for all by poaching Texas and Oklahoma. Selling the Big 10 Network to more East Coast cable providers is a wonderful business idea and all, but there is still the little matter of actually improving the quality of the on field product. If you're going to force us to watch two new teams that have the combined strength of a wet noodle just to make some extra cash, at least give us two more overrated national programs so you can pretend to still care about the product you're trying to sell us. With a conference full of Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio, Michigan, Penn State and Nebraska, we'd theoretically have a puncher's chance of competing better with the SEC.
I know it will never happen, but both Texas and Oklahoma are stagnating more than at any point over the past 10-12 years. The Big 12 doesn't have nearly as much national appeal as it used to with Nebraska and Texas A&M gone and no more conference championship game. Both of these programs are going to have to make a long-term choice on the viability of the Big 12 at some point, and I think one or both will ultimately leave for greener pastures. Instead of waiting for the SEC or Pac 12 to strike, the B1G should be as aggressive as they can about adding them and getting to 16.
Plus, if we add Texas and Oklahoma, we can then finally come up with Division names that make sense: Chokers and Underachievers (I kid, I kid!)
It would be nice to add Texas and Oklahoma, but it's never going to happen. Texas isn't going anywhere unless they can keep their own network, and I don't see the state of Oklahoma letting Oklahoma State U. get left behind to fend for itself.
I do not like "Legends" and "Leaders." I'm not sure if anyone pointed it out, but if a team is in the "Legends" division does that mean they cannot also be leaders? And vice-versa, if a team is in the "Leaders" division does that mean they cannot also be legends? I don't get it.
19,000 points, geeeesh.
Congratulations to me!
Oops. That was a short celebration. Shouldn't have responded so I could enjoy it a little longer!
Can't you just mod yourself down?
You've been a member for 1226 days, with 1902 points, that's around 15.5 points per day. (It's a slow day at work) I'm hoping you had some sort of point bump at some point, otherwise WOW...
There used to be a charity drive when you donated you got points. Also back in the days of the posbang you could gain hundreds with one good topic.
I definitely benefitted from those posbangs. FWIW, I plan on being the first to start an epic negbang when we go back to cumulative voting (if we get there). Those old-school negbangs were so much fun.
What are you insinuating? Are you saying that I have no life? Or are you saying that I am a huge slacker here at work? OR, worse yet, are you saying that its sad that I consider you all to be my friends? Either way, I hate you and I plan on taking away all of your points. If only I could get a point for taking yours away . . .
A. You are a slacker at work
(Shuffles feet, backs out slowly....)
Nothing to see here, just a double post. Move Along
Haha, reading this I realized that I have NO CLUE which division is which. I just know the teams that share a division with Michigan.
Just sing our fight song..."Hail Hail to Michigan the Legends and Best."
Our fight song can make sense on two levels then...
Western Leaders Division (OSU's division)
Eastern Legends Division (Michigan's division, along with Rutgers and Maryland)
See guys, I'm reasonable. I'm willing to change the division names you hate. Anything to distract you from our two newest additions and how terrible they are.
And you hit it. I hate that the Legends and Leaders thing became the issue on which people decided to galvanize their hatred, instead of, you know, making us put up with the addition of two ridiculously incorrect schools to the conference just so he could get his greedy hands on more money. Perfect opportunity for Delany to claim, see, I'm not such an unreasonable, tradition-destroying monster, look how reasonable I am about the division names. When we should really be screaming about Rutgers.
the new additions are. I read your post, completely agreed with everything you said and then realized, "Holy shit, not only did we add Rutgers, we managed to add a second team that's even worse than Rutgers!"
...after adding two schools that have no business being in this conference. Let them eat cake.
The logo they got right. It's easily recognizable. The names...not so much.
I'd agree with the exception of the blue color they use. It should be darker to match the old logo. Then you'd have a "new and imporved" mark with a connection to the past.
NW, NEB, OSU, UW, RU, MD, MINN
IOWA, ILL, IND, PU, PSU, MSU, UM
Not a bad divisional realignment. I would trade PSU for Nebraska though. But at the end of the day, the one is the placeholder for the other.
Unless we go with Urban and Brady.
Why would Michigan be in the "Rural" division and Nebraska in the "Urban" one? That's backwards. (Lincoln has a larger population than Ann Arbor, but only because it covers a huge geographic area - it has a much lower population density.)
Believe it or not, I didn't research the population density of Lincoln, Nebraska. If you want to be picky you could make a case that several teams could fit in the other division, pretty much like any other way of dividing them. All of the rural schools are located in college towns. The urban schools either are not, or are closest to a bigger city (MD and MSU).
It's still a pretty silly argument. It's a major reach to suggest that Ann Arbor is "rural" when it's on the doorstep of a metro area of over four million people. Meanwhile, Lincoln is quite literally surrounded by nothing but farmland for miles and miles.
So, you're saying it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense than the current divisions.
Why does everyone want Michigan in the same division as Ohio? I'd rather give my team a better chance of winning their division and competing for the conference at a neutral site than making it more difficult. How fair is it to take out the two best programs (Michigan and Ohio) and give the other side a pillow fight? Will the new names be Leaders and Cupcakes?
Because in years where we're Big 2, Little Other Integer, The Game will be a sandbag fest since the rematch is a done deal. In addition you can get a grouping of teams in the other division where at least one of them (and likely a pair) will be Top 20 teams. That works well enough. If everyone else has a down year, that just means the championship game is a victory lap and an extra week of practice before the Rose Bowl.
I have no problem with the CC game being Michigan's second string throttles the life out of Indiana for 4 quarters. I will sit there, gloat, and thank Bo that our starting QB is unlikely to get injured sitting on the bench and drinking Gatorade.
I don't know. I suppose one answer is that with the two teams in the different divisions, it's possible they could play again in a week, thereby theoretically neutralizing the magnitude of the regular season game. The other one, which I like better, is that we always have to play Ohio while MSU always has to play Indiana, and that's not a great setup for us.
However, the ACC put Florida State and Miami in opposite divisions just so they could meet in the ACCCG. That was the very specific reasoning. Ask the ACC how often that's happened. (Hint: Zero.)
There's only one thing I care about: that the Game is always played in the last week of the regular season, and never moved. I concede that it's slightly possible that having the teams in opposite divisions makes it more likely they move the Game. However, the likelihood that both teams will head into the final weekend, both having already wrapped up a spot in the B1GCG and thus with nothing to play for, is miniscule at best. I'll take my chances. Chances really are that one team or both will have the division title on the line when they play. Fine by me.
Don't doubt for a minute that the B1G will try to move the Ohio State v UM game earlier in the season while keeping them in opposite divisions. Why? That's what's best for the BTN.
With more teams, the inventory of conference games grows and the BTN wants big games earlier in the season. It's one of the few things that the SEC does that's better than the B1G scheme.
DiNardo on BTN has been beating this drum for two years. He makes no bones about it. Ohio State v. UM should be an early season game for two reasons: 1) Huge TV ratings early in the season; 2) Prevents OSU v UM in back to back weeks in the B1G championship game. If you care about the tradition of "The Game" put your attention here.
As for the division names I don't really care at this point. The only reason I dislike the current Leaders and Legends is that they are snark bait for national writers/reporters who like to dump on the B1G and find that the lowest of low-hanging fruit.
FWIW I like the B1G logo.
either put a team and its rival in the same division or screw the rivalry. The vast majority of Big Ten "rivalries" were invented for media attention and have no historical basis whatsoever. There's something like 30 trophy games within the Big Ten conference - that's absurd. The only one worth keeping - and the only one with schools powerful enough to prevent its elimination - is the game. So make the inner/outer divisions and put Michigan and Ohio in the same division and be done with it.
The fact that Michigan has to play Ohio every year while MSU gets a guaranteed win is a big disadvantage given the teams' all time historical win percentages vs. those respective opponents.
I would also like to keep Minnesota and Michigan in the same division. The little brown jug may not seem like much to most, but the long history is worth preserving.
It will clearly be king dongs and cupcakes.
last year? MSU Wiscy? Who played this year? Nebraska Wiscy. Sure there were sanctions, but other teams can make it to the game not named Michigan or Ohio. It's not the 1970s/1980s anymore. Calling Michigan and Ohio the 2 best teams is no longer a given.
I'd rather give my team a better chance of winning their division and competing for the conference at a neutral site than making it more difficult.
But don't you see, putting us in the opposite division (while keeping the annual rivalry game) makes it harder for us to win the division than it would be otherwise. As it now stands, we play Ohio every year but three of our division rivals won't, which puts us at a disadvantage. (It's the overall conference record that counts in the standings, not the divisional record.) If we are in the same division as Ohio, then it's a fair competition with everyone else in the division. It also would avoid the ridiculous proposition of us playing them on back-to-back weeks.
How is it not harder to win the championship if you have to beat Ohio twice?
But in my case, I don't like them being in separate divisions AND having them play the last weekend of the season. In my opinion, it should be one or the other. It's just a matter of time until both schools match up in the B1G championship game (possibly as soon as next year) and I don't like the idea of seeing them play each other in back to back weeks. I feel that the winning team of the first game is at a relative disadvantage if the rematch is held just one week later.
For example, say an underdog Michigan team beats Ohio in Ann Arbor by emptying the playbook with new formations and trickery, and catches some good fortune or a couple lucky bounces along the way. The euphoria from the win will be terrific for about 5 minutes.....until we realize we need Michigan to pull off the very same miracle the following week. If you need a real life example, just imagine how much different the Michigan-Ohio historical narrative would be if a rematch of the 1969 game had occurred 7 days after the original. What are the odds that the 1969 Michigan team beats the 1969 Ohio team 2 weeks in a row?
For games of this magnitude, if there's going to be a rematch, it's better if the two games are spaced out across several weeks or a couple months. Let the winner enjoy the victory, because otherwise it will dilute the value of The Game. If you put them both in the same division, that solves the problem of a rematch because there simply won't be one (my preference is same division, and a Rocky-esque "ain't gonna be no rematch")
You might think I'm worrying about this too much, but just wait until the first season where we beat Ohio in late November and immediately start freaking out about having to play them again the very next week. On the list of topics that might crash this wonderful site, I'd put this scenario way up there.
I think there are some holes in your reasoning.
You state the winner of the first game is at a disadvantage in the rematch, citing examples where a big underdog wins. What if the favorite won the first game, as happens more often? Wouldn't they be an even bigger favorite in the rematch in your examples? Speaking for myself, the chance to get revenge after an upset loss to OSU outweighs having to face them again after we won in an upset. If we were a big underdog we're probably not going to the championship game even with a win.
I think you are greatly overestimating the negative effect a rematch will have on the value of The Game. It has survived us losing ten of the last eleven and not always being competitive. It has survived many games with no meaning for the Big Ten title. Rematches with a new kind of drama may well add quite a bit to the rivalry.
I could care less if fans on this board meltdown worrying about having to face OSU again a week after beating them. I care about what the players and coaches do. If they can't get ready to face OSU for the Big Ten title, how would they be ready to play Wisconsin or anyone else?
Regardless of whether it's easier or harder the second time around, it's just absurd to ever have to play a team in back-to-back weeks. It'd make the first game meaningless. It should never be allowed to happen.
While it's unusual, we'll have to just disagree on whether it's absurd to play to play the same team on back to back weeks. I don't see the big difference between that and having a game or three between the rematch. I also don't see why the first game would be meaningless. If you are thinking of some scenario where both teams are guaranteed to win their divisions with a loss and there are no national championship implications, that sounds like an extreme longshot.
Aside from that, the idea that a game against OSU would ever be meaningless is what strikes me as absurd. It wasn't meaningless the last two years when neither team could win the division. It wasn't meaningless in 2009 when OSU had already wrapped up the Big Ten and we went 1-7.
Maybe when the rematch happens I won't like it so much. But Michigan playing in the championship game is something I'm looking forward to seeing. I don't believe my interest or enjoyment will be any less because OSU is the opponent.
Even if the favorite wins Round 1, unless it's a heavy favorite (think Tressel teams vs RichRod teams). Take this year for example. Ohio as a slight favorite wins a tight game at home, in part because of some questionable play calling by Borges in the 2nd half. Have the rematch one week later on a neutral field, and the result could be different based on what Michigan learned in the first matchup. When two relatively even teams play in back to back weeks, it's tough for one team to win both games. I'm not completely opposed to a rematch, but if you want to add that dynamic to the rivalry I think it would make more sense to move The Game to earlier in the season. It's just asking a lot for either team to win back to back games against the other, and I do think it could reduce the luster of the regular season matchup if both teams are going to line up against each other one week later.
I say put them in the same division and be done with it, but that's just like....my opinion...man.
I hate the idea of playing Ohio twice a year let alone 7 days apart. It severely dilutes the meaning of the rivalry for me. It's called "The Game" not "The Games" as would become the norm if they remain in separate divisions.
Once a year with all the chips on the table. That's how it's always been and how I think it should remain. The losing team should have to sit with that taste in their mouth for 365 days.
According to you maybe we should get rid of the regular season game if we are in two separate divisions! After all it will be Ohio vs Michigan every year in the championship! I wish, but I'm not so sure!
Michigan and Ohio in the same division and North and South division names. That is all.
I personally think the names "Legends" and "Leaders" is a bit excessive for the B1G divisions. My thought is that it needs to be something that reflects the Midwest, sorry Penn State, Maryland and Rutgers you're outnumbered here. Change it to the "Plains" and "Lakes" divisions. It intrinsically makes more sense.
I'm actually not in favor of change. As weird as it looks to others outside the conference I'm in favor of it staying the same.
OSU and Michigan
I'm in favor of putting both teams in the same division. Hello_Heisman surmises everything that makes the decision a good one. I think if you look at what happened with UCLA and Stanford this year, UCLA played conservatively and that came out in the interviews when Mora was ask wither he was trying to win the game, throw it or just not opening the playbook fully. The next week his team plays better but not good enough to win. I can see this happening to either OSU or Michigan and it would make The Game seem less meaningful.
I have no idea what Delany is going to do here but I think that its important to have rivalry games at the end of season. Wisconsin and Minnesota have express their desire to play for the ax at end of the season since some think the B1G only cares about OSU and Michigan and no one else.
Honestly the names are dumb but I don't care. I do care who is in them. He doesn't hint whether they will stay the same plus one or be amended to something reasonable (osu and m in the same division to preserve importance of The game and five teams that will always suck to preserve division parity -- Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Minnesota: come ok down).
If I never hear the word "brand" again in my life I will be happy. Marketing is taking all the fun out of college sports.
"Slow" and "Plodding"
"Contenders" and "Pretenders"
"Kool" and "The Gang"
"Rocky" and "Bullwinkle"
"Bitches" and "Hos"
I mean, if we're going to get ripped on in the press for having stupid division names, might as well make it count. Imagine the BTN advertising - instead of "creating leaders and honoring legends", the spot could say "checking bitches and pimping hos". It's a publicist's dream!
Honestly this preserves every rivalry and is balanced. I tried to figure out something better on the commute home today and this is the best that can be done.
What about the Little Brown Jug!? That could be a protected game, I suppose. Eehh, just not an easy way to do it is there? On the one hand it preserves rivalries. On the other Rutgers traveling to Nebraska....
I feel worse about making the Cornhuskers travel to NJ, as I actually respect Nebraska. Perhaps we should make it so the newer teams don't get home games.
By the way, Delany hates Lakes & Plains and Bo & Woody.