I would welcome Shannon and his experience but I don't know if it happens or not. Who knows though.
spoiler alert: i linked this
I would welcome Shannon and his experience but I don't know if it happens or not. Who knows though.
"Succeeding at the highest with really good players" is hardly a criticism of a guy. If he did really shitty with four and five stars, that would be one thing, but the guy consistently had great defenses while he was DC.
Hoke is defensive minded. As such, I think whoever we get as our OC is far more important than who we get as DC.
Yeah that is true. As long as he can coach up the defense better than what it has been the last 3 years and still have a good offense.
Hoke was a DL coach, not a coordinator. He'll need a strong coordinator. As I understand it, Rocky Long was the mastermind of the SDSU defense, not Hoke.
You are both correct. I suspect DB will pay top dollar for a great OC and DC. Hoke is just going to run the operation and make it successful
You expect DB to do something intellegent and reasonable? All evidence points to you being wrong in that expectation.
So the hiring of Hoke was neither intelligent nor reasonable?
Hoke was a DL coach, not a coordinator.
At this point, I don't think that matters. He's been the boss of the DC for eight years now. Defense is clearly his side of the ball, and I imagine he'll have a lot of input in the defensive gameplans.
But I don't think Randy Shannon lays awake at night dreaming about coaching at Michigan, he didn't go to Michigan and he wasn't a coach at Michigan. I am pretty sure that disqualifies him. I mean, if he at least slept in Michigan pajamas or named his first born son Bo Lloyd Gary Shannon then maybe we could talk.
I think without those qualifications it must mean he blows as a defensive coordinator.
Haha that's funny. I guess you're right.
Anyone other than Gerg and his stuffed animals. I will however, miss his great hair.
Greg Mattison-raven's DC
I'm not sure Mattison is going anywhere. I'd be very surprised.
He's probably better suited for the college game, that I'll agree with.
Nepotism sounds bad, but Jon Hoke (current Chicago Bears DB coach) actually has a pretty solid resume:
1982 Dayton (DB)
1983 NC State (DB)
1983-1986 Bowling Green (DB)
1987-1988 SDSU (DB)
1989-1993 Kent State (DB/DC)
1994-1998 Missouri (DB)
1999-2001 Florida (DB/DC)
2002-2008 Houston Texans (DB)
2009-2010 Chicago Bears (DB)
"I don't think people can really say much about him. He has been here two years and last year Lovie "took over" the defense and this year Rod Marinelli took control so who knows what Hoke has really done in decision making. Although since he came, there was a bunch of players shifting around position wise in the secondary in the off-season, Bowman, Graham to safety then back to corner. Manning from nickle-back to strong safety and Tillman from one side to the other at cb. That and he really didn't develop anyone to be solid. Bowman was all hype then had a bunch of INTs but tons of blown plays and is benched. He was noted as not thinking Graham was quick enough to play cornerback and put him in the doghouse. Does he get credit for DJ Moore stepping up at all? I don't know because before Lovie was all into coaching the nickle position but I'm not sure if it was the case this year. Hoke is just a person there really."
"Hoke is kind of a long forgotten coach amongst our staff. Him and whoever the heck coaches our TE position simply never come up, ever. Good or bad? You decided, but pretty much no one will really be able to tell you anything about Hoke. Our secondary for the most part blows and has needed to be hidden by our pass rush. Harris has really given us a boost but he's a long time vet who's just come back to the team this year so I don't know how much credit you give Hoke for that. DJ Moore is another player of note, but like Clyde said, up until this past year it's been well known that Lovie personally coaches our nickle position (there's no reason to believe he doesn't still). Manning has come on this season at Strong Safety but then again he's been a pet project of Lovie's since the day he got here so who knows how much instruction he receives from Hoke vs Lovie.
All in all he's the last coach I'd care about leaving the Bears staff. Then again Perry Fewell had the same gig as Lovie Smith's secondary coach back when he was with the Rams in 03 and then came to join the Bears in 05 and now he's the hot name for head coaching gigs across the NFL so take that for what it's worth."
Ron English, for whatever that's worth. Of course, English never coached a down with the Bears either.
I think it's tough to judge a guy's ability to develop talent based on the NFL. His Florida track record is probably more relevant, correct?
1999 - 20.9 points against per game
2000 - 21 papg
2001 - 14.8 papg
So he had one great year as DC and two average years while at Florida. Overall tendancy was to give up lots of points to the good teams.
Weird that they both coached at SDSU, though at different points in their careers.
I wouldn't mind seeing someone come in whose background was coaching secondaries. With the exception of a few bright spots (Woodson, Hall, Jackson), this has been a weak area for Michigan for a long time.
I don't think it's really all that surprising... College jobs, much like any others are often won by who you know more than what you know. Not that he wasn't a good fit there. Simply pointing out that networking and connections are often the determining factors.
as the DB coach.
If DB let's him bring in a little known pro-position coach as the DC that would be bad enough. If it's his brother then DB has really sold the fans a bunch of bullshit about doing everything possible to get this program back on its feet. Plus, It's almost been 10 years since his brother was involved in college football. That's not a good sign. Also, the whole nepotism/crony thing smells way too much like what the perception of the end of the Carr years was like.
So far Hoke's OC is pretty underwhelming. (Look at the arc of his production at Auburn, minus the first few years with great talent he came into, he was average at best) If the DC is as equally blah then the next few years are gonna blow.
Well, I'll be glad when all this is settled too...
As for Jon Hoke, I sure hope his time with the Houston Texans isn't indicative of his ability to put a solid product on the field. I bleed maize and blue and live in Houston, and sure we we didn't have the best players in the league, but our secondary has always been torched.
For our sake I hope that was because Dunta Robinson was the only real talent he had back there during his tenure. But, I believe a good coach can use less-than-stellar talent and set up team schemes that will be successful. Hell, the Patriots do what they do with a cast of unknowns.
The coaches and administration know how to handle these situations more than we all do--we are fans sitting on a blog giving our $0.02. If they feel like his brother is the right choice, then give him a shot. As for me, I would like the Randy Shannon hire. It's doubtful to lure the Ravens DC here.
...the same thing. He had some fairly decent defenses at Florida and Spurrier offered him the DC position at South Carolina when he took over there a few years back. One thing with this is that he is currently coaching defensive backs for the Bears and their season doesn't look to be ending for at least a couple of weeks. I have seen a lot of Bears football over the past two years, and I think they are a pretty good group and IMO they are pretty well coached. They are very good at tackling and creating turnovers. I am thinking Brady would want to have a DC in place ASAP before then.
If his brother wants the job it will be easier to poach him after Sunday cuz the Bears season will be over then. BOOM Seahawked!
Don't the choices depend on the budget? If DB has authorized $1mm for a Def Coordinator, then the choices could include some very sexy names that wouldn't consider the job if we continue to underpay...Bud Foster? Venables? This is how UT operates, no?
We all thought DB was going to tear up the country to find the sexiest HC as well.
Hey, we don't know what BH looks like in a Speedo. It could be very sexy (depending on what you're into)
Given our time constraints before NSD....After all, their teams are still playing... Chicago, Balmer, GB...
What happened to Bedford? Teryl Austin?
Are we still assuming coaches want to come here? I hope we get a great DC and a great name but we were all hoping for that with the HC. I just want someone to do the job well. I don't care who it is.
I'd like to see Trgovac.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_TrgovacThis is the name I am reading/hearing the most.
From who? Us or "sources"? Because if its the latter than I will start to get lightly and cautiously excited/hopeful.
Edit: The other things about Trgovac is that he is the D-Line coach, so is Hoke. Not sure how they would deal with that. Does either have expertise in other areas?
Who knows if it is wishful thinking but I've heard his name mentioned more than a few times. Brandon has mentioned he was contacted by various pro coaches who would come back and bring Mich back to prominience. So, that adds some credibility, depending on how much you beleive Brandon says.
Q. If it is Trgovac, how do you think they (Hoke and Trgovac) will split up the position coaches? I just looked on Wikipedia and they both are long term defensive line coaches without other areas that they specialize in (sans coordinating and head coaching).
If it is Trgovac I see him as the D-coordinator with Hoke being an overseer of all things defensive. I haven't seen/read anything specific on position coaches, just coordinator postions right now.
has also coached Linebackers in his day, @ Toledo from 87-89.
Not sayin' anything, just pointing out that he could plausibly do LB's if they got Trgovac to do DL/DC.
From all I've read Hoke is a coach. Loves coaching. So, it makes sense for him to be an overseer of all things but coaches love getting in there and teaching. I think he will be a manager but will get his hands dirty with a positional group. Just my opinion.
he played linebacker back when he was at ball state
What if we got Ron English back? I'm not even sure I'm kidding.
NOO!! God no. The Horror and Oregon have haunted me to this day. Damn Dennis Dixon and the fake statue of liberty play.
I don't like the idea of hiring his brother. It can just create some really awkward situations.
What's the word on this offensive co-ordinator, anyone know?
Al Borges, a really good offensive coordinator... if you like the I-formation and West Coast offense. Suit Denard, this does not.
Thanks for the info laser wolf.
Well if we're neck deep in nepotism, why don't we make Lloyd Carr's son the QB coach? I'm sure Tom Brady's son can be the water boy. Maybe Bo's son Glenn can be WR coach; why stop there?
Jon Hoke's defenses at Florida were the worst in Spurrier's tenure at the Swamp. Jon may be a good position coach but I want a truly proven DC - Shannon, Mattison, or Trgovac. But Michigan is cheap, so it's most likely gonna be Jon Hoke.
I do believe Lloyd's son is no longer coaching.
You know, he might not be the sexy hire that everyone wanted, but he's going to be a great coach. Any one who knows him or has played for him will tell you that. If you continue whining about it you are no better than the other sect of the fanbase that ran Rodriguez out of town. He's hired and there is nothing you can do about it short of sabotaging him like the Freep. So, I suggest you get on board and start being a little more optimistic about the team.
"Jon Hoke's defenses at Florida were the worst in Spurrier's tenure at the Swamp"
I was not sure if this statement was true or not so I looked up Floridas total defense during Hokes tenure. They were ranked 30th his first year and fell to 42nd in 2000 but then in 2001 they climbed to #9 in total defense. Unfortunately, I was unable to find the rankings before his tenure when Stoops was DC. The defense really fell off in 2002-2004 (ranked 25th, 51st, 42nd) before jumping back up to #9 in 2005. Regardless, it appears that Hoke can field a top 10 D.
Obtained my data from: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/mainpage.jsp
Chuck Heater would be my first choice as well. He has been a recruiting coordinator in the past, was kinda screwed in Florida but was the Assist. DC for years, and has been coaching for many years ( I believe he started 2 years after he graduated from Michigan)
A 0% chance Shannon is hired.
Let me be clear - Hoke seems like a nice guy. I like him, and I support him.
But this AD's office couldn't have been clearer regarding this "national search" - connections are a must (either to UM, or now, probably, to Hoke), and I don't expect Hoke to go too far out of his network to grab a coordinator.
If connections are a must, why did we inquire about Pat Fitzgerald? I think it's more that connections are a plus factor, but not essential.
There's a huge list of candidates just from Michigan.
Vance Bedford (DC at Louisville)
Teryl Austin (DC at Florida, unemployed)
Greg Mattison (DC at Baltimore)
Chuck Heater (DB Coach everywhere, unemployed)
Trgovac(DL at Green Bay)
There are a few others but I think these are the possible candidates. I think we'll end up with Teryl Austin. No one has too much experience as a DC other than Mattison, but I don't think we'll be able to pull him. Teryl is young and managed to maintain a top defense in the SEC this year. He also coached with Hoke for a few years at Michigan, so they know each other pretty well.
Heater would be a good option, but he's almost 60. Maybe that's a good thing because when he retires, the next DC will be the heir-apparent for when Hoke retires. He's also a great recruiter and has more experience than Austin.
Trgovac would be a good hire because he can coach the DL as well. 3 of the guys above are DB coaches and I don't think we'll get the other. Pull in Trgovac and then get Chuck Heater as a DB coach and RC.
Those are my options. I see no real reason to give the job to someone who hasn't coached at Michigan, at least for some time, when we have a short list of great candidates right here.
Mattison please and thank you ... that would be a shocker of a hire IMO.
Who would want to coach Ray Lewis and Ed Reed when you can coach Kenny Demens and Cam Gordon?!
Go to Texas?
Wiki doesn't have it and I couldn't find any confirmation of it. I heard that it was a rumor, but I suppose the rumor never came to fruition.
Obviously, he's busy right now. But admit it: he would be a damn good coach.
I've thought about something like this too, but Hoke won't retire for probably at least 10 years. If our defenses are as good as they are supposed to be, then whomever we hire for DC won't be here in 10 years. I think our best bet is to hire a great DC and then tell the next DC that they will be the heir to the throne.
Trgovac or Austin at DC would be very good. Heater as a DB coach (plus his recruiting skills) would also be a great hire.
1. Shannon. Obviouslty
2. Trgovac. People need to also remember that he was defensive line coach with the Panthers (helped develop Peppers) and the defensive coordinator there from 2003-2008. They were a pretty darn good defense.
Is there evidence that Shannon 1) wants to coach this year and 2) is willing to be an assistant coach?
I think Jon Hoke is going to be considered. Hard to not turn to your brother who has a good resume (like it or not)
He hasn't turned to him yet...
I think they should hire Greg Robinson! Just kidding anyone has got to be better then him.