Defense Working on 3rd Down Efficiency - How?

Submitted by Shalom Lansky on

I've heard both Rich Rod and players mention that the defense will work on improving their third down defense this week in practice.  Michigan's opponents have had great success on converting 3rd downs (not that this is news to any of you).

My question for the coaching minded: Is bad third down defense different than bad 1st and 2nd down defense (not in importance, but in strategy and technique)? 

I understand that getting a stop on 3rd down is seen as critical since most teams will punt the ball away on 4th down, but are the things you work on to improve what you do on third down any different than the skills needed to be a good defense on all other downs?

Unless they're just stressing, "See that orange stick attached to that chain?  On 3rd down it is EXTRA important to tackle the guy before he gets there!", I'm not sure what focusing on 3rd down defense entails.

VaUMWolverine

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:08 PM ^

I would think that when in a 3rd and long situation (6 or more yds) the defensive backs give a little more room trying to make sure that they keep the play in front of them. Try not to let the receivers get behind you. The obvious problem with that is that by doing that you almost always give a big enough cushion to allow the other team to catch the ball and then YAC for the first down. I am hoping that they just put the DB's out there, let them bump at the line to throw off the route and blitz like crazy. It really cant hurt anything.

ish

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^

Actually I think you hit the nail on the head when you said (i don't know how to do block quotes):

Unless they're just stressing, "See that orange stick attached to that chain?  On 3rd down it is EXTRA important to tackle the guy before he gets there!", I'm not sure what focusing on 3rd down defense entails.

On third down, you don't care if you give up five yards if it is third and six.  So it works a little differently.  You want to keep everything in front of you, be mindful of where the first down marker is and that the offense is going to adjust slightly to get to that spot.  For instance, on the first third down last week, McGloin scrambled for the first.  Ordinarily, on 1st or 2nd he probably doesn't take off and keeps his eyes downfield trying to throw the ball.  You're right that the goal should always be fewer yards is better, but there are a few things that are different about third down.

MGoDC

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^

I think focusing on 3rd down defense entails the staff saying anything they can to make it look like the program, specifically the defense, is heading in the right direction. At this point I've got to imagine they've used every trick up their sleeve (Penn State was a must win) and the new defensive strategy is "doing what we've already tried and praying it works this time."

GBOD79

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:10 PM ^

I think its more about trying to replicate the situation. Each team has tendencies on 3rd down depending on the distance. Maybe their idea of working on it means that they will rep it more during practice, simulating the down and distance to be as close to a game day situation as possible.

Geaux_Blue

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:11 PM ^

on third down and five, the defense might be locking into what was predicted/called going into the play and not making the proper reads to adjust and pick up that 4 yard screen pass, etc. which seems to be what they're getting thrashed on. oftentimes they're not adjusting on the down, where giving 3-5 yards of space on 1st down is sensical to avoid the homerun ball but is not on 3rd and 5. it also seems to be the biggest issue for this young defense - they are not adjusting into depth and picking up defenders when a wrinkle is provided either at the line or in the overall formation. i'm actually surprised we haven't seen more timeouts used when the defense is completely incorrectly stacked against what the offense is showing pre-snap... which might be something i'll add to my mental indictment list of GERG... he will tear a kid after making the wrong read and being 12 yards from the guy who picks up the easy 5 in a crucial stand but won't use a timeout, or encourage a defensive leader to recognize when one is to be used. i believe it was morgan trent or shawn crable who was given that latitude in a previous regime

Ziff72

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:14 PM ^

You may have answered your own question.   It seems easy, but maybe they give them certain adjustments based on the distance. 

Say we are in a cover 2 and the cb has flat responsibility.  He has certain keys on what his progression is supposed to be.   Then Greg comes over and says ok what are you supposed to be reading Courtney?   Courtney then responds "well they are in trips to my side so I am reading the slot 1st and  if he breaks inside I immediately look to the outside receiver and get my depth and look to see if the rb is slipping into my zone at which point I step up.  

Greg then responds "that is awesome after 6 weeks you finally got it, unfortunately it is 3rd and 8 so forget all that bullshit and park your ass at the orange thingy and if anyone catches it in front of you you grab on with anything you got you trip you hold whatever it takes to slow that guy up."  "Got it?"

Maybe something like that.

Part sarcasm part real for everyone.

VaUMWolverine

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:14 PM ^

to see the DB's knock the receivers off of route once in a while though. Is it me or do the DB's constantly give about a million and a half yard cushion? What good does that do especially if you know you're undersized or slower. At least give the line a chance to get to the QB. I dont know. What do I know really. I just watch. I'm no coach or anything.

bigmc6000

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:15 PM ^

I think D's main problem is multi-tasking.  If only they could find a way to project the first down line on the field they wouldn't have to turn their heads to figure out if they're allowed to tackle them yet...

 

/s

BlueGoM

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:19 PM ^

Regarding 3rd down - I assume that they mean placing players in simulated 3rd and medium or 3rd and long situations and simply practicing the defensive plays against the scout team.

On practice in general, with such a paper thin secondary I have to think that the tacklng and/or contact drills for them is going to have to be limited.  Maybe they can just practice covering.

I'd go on but I think my head is going to explode thinking about it.   Michigan Safety Hating God, please have mercy.

Yooper

November 3rd, 2010 at 1:21 PM ^

The only thing consistent about our D is if the QB has time we will be shredded. Roh and others, but especially Roh, need to moving forward all day on 3rd and long.

steelymax

November 3rd, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^

A 3rd & long situation is when having an experienced secondary is most critical... not-so-coincidentally, this is also where Michigan always gets burned.

Unfortunately, there's not much they can do about "third down efficiency" where you'll see immediate results on the field Saturday.

myantoniobass …

November 3rd, 2010 at 7:23 PM ^

A key difference on 3rd down has been subbing our quick soph. and frosh players in.  Mike Jones, Jibreel Black, Courtney Avery, Terry Talbott, and even M. Robinson in the PSU game on 3rd and short/4th and short have been part of our 3rd down package at different times this season.

Steve in PA

November 3rd, 2010 at 9:47 PM ^

Right now our opponents are converting 44% of their third downs.  That includes the cupcake portion of the season.  I was too lazy and upset to breakdown the B10 portion of the schedule.  I strongly suspect that it will be north of 50% by the end of the season.

stillMichigan

November 4th, 2010 at 7:30 AM ^

Practice tackling. We are a horrible tackling defense. This is why it is no coincidence a bad defense has a bad 3rd down conversion rate. Factor in inexperience with poor technique and the only thing we can hope for is that the opposing offense doesn't execute, which hasn't happened in awhile.