It's already been posted. Listen, I really want the band there as well; and I think that it is a big mistake not only for the fan base, but for branding, not to have them there. But this whole outrage over it is a little extreme in my opinion. I think that a lot of people on this board just want a reason to hate Dave Brandon, and go over the top to vilify him. Do I think this is a mistake, absolutely. Do I think this is a "war" against the loyal fanbase, not at all.
Day 3 Marching Band not going to Dallas RAGE Thread
I think that a lot of people on this board just want a reason to hate Dave Brandon, and go over the top to vilify him.
Any reasoning behind why you think this is the case? Or is this just some hunch because the AD has already shown a trend of changing traditions at Michigan for the sake of making more money*?
*Yes I know it's not a Michigan tradition for the AD to front the bill for the band's travel costs, but it's also not a Michigan tradition to sell out a home game for the sake of making a money-grab. It's also not a tradition to lie about how money is the reason why we can't send the band when the public can see and read the AD budget for this year.
I won't take the time to look up every thread discussing different topics/problems with Dave Brandon, nor will I take the time to look up all the Brian posts about Dave Brandon, but if you follow along religiously as I do there is absolutely no question that there is a segment of the MgoBlog (and I would suppose Michigan) community that takes it upon themselves to attack our AD at every turn. I happen to think that overall he's doing a pretty good job, however that isn't the issue. The issue is the "boy who cried wolf" syndrome some people have where they complain about every thing the AD does as a masterful afront to everything Michigan in the name of the almighty dollar. The result is that when there is a legitimate complaint, which I think this is, people go overboard with their reactions....which I think this is. While I would love to see our band at the game, I'm not going to get worked up like some people have been and make outrageous claims that Dave Brandon is selling out the University.
Soooo how about those parents of mmb members who purchased non refundable plane tickets at a pretty large cost, and purchased tickets to see their kids there? Eh who cares right? I'm not gonna say DB is selling out, i think he's been a typical corporate tool who happens to be an AD this entire time
"typical corporate tool"....oh boy. Son you need to come back down to earth. Like I said twice above, I disagree with the decision and if I were in his shoes I would allow them to go. However, this is not a criminal act, nor that big of a deal really.
The petition is for "The Cotton Bowl Classic", not the Cowboys Classic. The Cotton Bowl Classic is played on New Year's Day.
How much credibility does this petition have when it isn't even worded correctly for the U-M vs 'Bama game?
...because the petition definitely says "Cowboy Classic" all over it. Unless it used to say "Cotton Bowl Classic" before getting edited, but the petition is fine now. However, the other thread thought the petition wasn't very credible either, given that
1) the creator's credibility is suspect,
2) the wording seems to suggest some form of social injustice when the issue is simpler than that (contract has seats for them, AD sold out game for money grab, etc), and
3) 400,000 signatures is incredibly unlikely without bot spamming.
I'd be completely in favor of signing a revised version of the petition, but exam review is preventing me from taking the initiative.
The fact that the petition has been reworded since people originally signed it, definitely makes it questionable.
It shows that people who signed the petition before the revision did not pay attention to what they were signing and that the revised petition no longer has the same meaning as the one that they signed.
The mistake was blatantly obvious. However, so were the intentions.
Nevertheless, the original petition was altered after people signed it, invalidating all signatures prior to the revisions.
Do you mean to tell me that an online petition has no credibility or pull whatsoever? Color me shocked
Bring the band!
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BpgDtoj73DQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Not to mention many people admitted to signing multiple times. More people contributed to the HTTV Kickstarter and that actually costs money.
Compromise: Give the band members the tickets that were designated for them and a voucher for a box of crackerjack.
...the band will somehow be there? Hmmm...
but I am trying to get my head around the fact that as it stands now, when Denard rushes into the end zone and kneels, in lieu of the Victors, we will hear silence?
I would guess that at the minimum you would hear cheering from the fans.
Pretty similar to a road game. Its not like the band was at every game before. While it was written in the contract, ultimately $400,000 is a lot of money for not that much exposure. I mean Alabama and LSU both brought their bands to the the national championsip, I don't remember them.
But we are technically the home team. We need every advantage we can get because it will be an extremely tough game to win,
As others have said, you'll hear the exact same thing as you do at 75% of the games played outside of Michigan Stadium.
Michigan normally has 9 away games in a 2-year span, with the band attending 3 of them. That is, 1/3 of all away games that Michigan plays in has the band in attendance, which is more than the 1/4 that you cite.
When you assume one bowl game each year (reasonable given that we're not making a major transition), and that fraction increases to 5 out of 11 (nearly half).
When you take into consideration that this game will give about as much exposure for Michigan as the UTL game, there is a lot of incentive to have the band at the game.
The dude is acting like this is the first time in the history of Michigan football that the band won't be playing The Victors after a touchdown.
time that the band won't be playing The Victors after a TD scored against Bama. Comparing this game to a midseason away game against Indiana or Minnesota is absurd at best.
I did not make that comparison here.
As others have said, you'll hear the exact same thing as you do at 75% of the games played outside of Michigan Stadium.
This game is not equivalent to all games played outside of Michigan Stadium. Also, of those games that one might consider close to equivalent, the band is there and is playing The Victors after every TD.
People are upset but no one's burning couches or flipping police cars. They are signing petitions and venting on blogs. I fail to see how this has any negative impact on your person. Go take a nap and then try waking up on the other side of the bed.
His question was essentially, What will you hear after Denard scores a touchdown? As if we have never played a game without the band in attendance.
I admit that this is not a regular "road game." However, it's not breaking some long standing tradition of the band attending every game.
Let it go OMG Shirtless. Sometimes someone's opinions will trump everything else. I agree 100 percent with you, but debating it over and over and over all summer isn't going to help anyone.
As 75% of the games. Not an away game at Northwestern or Purdue.
I was responding to the guy who must not have been aware that the band doesn't travel to every game.
When you are one of the most recognized sport teams in the world, on a national stage, in the biggest game of the early season, you NEED to make sure your "brand" is represented in the best way possible. This is huge for recruiting, growing the fan base, and the perception of the conference in which we play compared to the SEC. All of these things are impacted, even if slighty, positively with the band being there. Our program is much to important to say we can't afford 400,000 to send our band. Ridiculous.
Why can't they just use piped-in band music? Problem solved. Money saved. Everyone's happy.
I'm pretty sure that everyone would not be happy.
It wouldn't be nearly the same if we just had it played over the loudspeakers. We might as well have this at one endzone then...
That was actually hilarious. +1 to you sir
It would be sufficient if that were Dave Brandon holding up the stereo.
Sms in 5 minutes I had 3 more of my friends on FB to sign also...
Keep sending these reminders so everyone sees it.
Judging by the rate at which comments are coming in on this thread and the composition of them, there's considerably less RAGE today.
Though it's finals weekend at Michigan and the weather is nice outside. Either Dave Brandon is an evil genius bent on keeping Michigan fans distracted from his master plan to screw the band over or there are plenty of outside forces to keep Michigan fans from feeling outraged. Tomorrow is another day, however.
Edit: Did I seriously need a /s tag for that?
My high school sent our band to the Rose Bowl (marched behind Michigan in 2004) and Fiesta Bowl during a four-year period while I was there, and we didn't have any bowl committee pay for it. This is embarrassing.
The marching band is going to at least two other road games this year and I'm guessing your high school band did not. By the way, did you go to strawman high school?
The band pays for those trips. Not the athletic department.
A band booster at high school level I'll tell you those trips likely cost $1200 to $1400 per band member, paid by the families or fundraising or donations or some combination. Not very likely the school paid for much of any of it (although there may be exceptions). HS is different from a college getting a bowl-type payout after being asked to name their price
Money has to come from somewhere.
It's ridiculous. This game will be played on a national stage. The Victors is unlike any other fight song and is incredibly recognizable. It's absence during a game of this magnitude would be certainly conspicuous in my mind.
If not the entire band, how about a smaller contingent ensemble??? Seniors only??
Argh. There should be a cost effective solution to this.
This shit would not fly if William D. Revelli was still around.
Speaking of, I wish The Victors was still played with this kind of energy.
Is it the same RAGE as when the initial news broke? No. I'm still mad about it though.
I still find the "it's just like any other away game" mantra that some are taking a bit silly. We don't get to name our price for other games like we did for this one.
Makes us seem like cannon fodder for bama. It makes us look the washington generals. Do you not have hope Mr. Brandon?
WTF, no it doesn't. We don't bring the band to Purdue road games yet we normally beat Purdue on the road.
How can you post like 4 posts up saying don't use a strawman, and now you compare a road game at Purdue to playing against Alabama?
The rage is that we have the money and aren't sending the band to the biggest game of the year. It's not an excuse to hate Brandon. If he had sent them, I wouldn't have cared about Brandon.
The biggest game of the year is OSU.
OSU is a much bigger game and the band will be going to that game. Funny how life works out sometimes.
Ohio State will be playing a meaningless season as the result of being on bowl probation. A Michigan win there has the stakes of "Michigan didn't lose to OSU," which is admittedly big in the eyes of Michigan but less big than years where OSU is also contending for a Big Ten Championship. If OSU is favored then The Game gets bigger, but as of right now Michigan is favored since OSU will be learning a new system.
Alabama is coming off a national championship win riding the SEC high as the best team in the best conference in the country. Michigan will go into that game expected to lose for various reasons mostly attributed to great recruiting and oversigning by Alabama, giving them a more talented roster. Winning that game, however, would be bigger from a national perspective than beating OSU because Michigan would then be looking at a possible #1 ranking with big ten title and national championship hopes.
Saying the Alabama game doesn't compare to the OSU game next year is ludicrous. Unless you think there is essentially zero chance Michigan beats Alabama. If that's the case it sends an awful message to the nation that Michigan is too cheap to commit its financial resources that it SAID IT WOULD COMMIT to support its own football team.
Those are all great reasons....but playing TSIO is always the biggest game of the year, bar none. Especially since we haven't won at the 'Shoe in over a decade (2000)
Are we seriously going to do a day-by-day update about this? Yes it sucks, but a 1,000 signature petition isn't going to change anything. I don't understand why so many of you are up in arms about it. They should be able to go, we voiced our dissatisfaction at DB's decision, great. We don't need a daily update.
Or already know about it, don't click on it..
Don't give me that. I'm just procrastinating studying for finals and it's a slow Sunday.
Besides, I'm not the only one who thinks this. It isn't the travesty everyone is making it out to be. All you're doing by being all RABBLE RABBLE is overreacting. If you're really expecting that daily threads will change anything, don't hold your breath. Or do so until Day 200. Won't do a thing. DB made his decision. Get over it.
Persistence. Nothing wrong with keeping the flame going. As stated above. Dont read it if you dont like it. Who's wasting time here?
The topic of the post was clear. It is a topic you disagree with. You click on it anyways. Where is the "RABBLE RABBLE" coming from exactly? The OP or you.
Besides, I'm not the only one who thinks this.
Where can I sign the online petition to agree with this?
I picture Dr.Evil throwing this petition on Brandon's desk and putting his pinky up to his lips after he tells him there are over 1,000 signatures.
LMAO! Great visual.
I was under the impression that scheduling Alabama was too improve national recognition of the program, not to pad wallets (which we clearly dont need to do considering we have the second largest endowment for public universities). Not having the band at the game doesnt really bother me. Would you like to see the band at every game? yes. Would you like them to be at a big game? sure. Is it a league game with bearing on the B1G championship? no. Is it a game with potentiial to destroy any chances at a bcs bid? not really, assuming its not 49-0. Are you upset about it because of the fact that Bo has that quote about the band? probably.
Assuming the band can only attend a certain number of away games, Ide rather they be at Notre Dame, Nebraska, and OSU this year.
Flame away, but thats my 2 cents fwiw.
We should promote this. Here is my idea:
We open with the globe viewed from space, it is rotating slowly at the bottom of the screen. You can scarcely hear a song. From around the globe, a tiny speck comes tumbling gracefully towards us and as it does the music gets louder. As the close nears the music crescendos and we can finally make out the words: "PARTY ROCK IS GOIN' ON TONITE!". And fade out with a slogan: the Michigan difference.
Really, you want the band to go to Nebraska instead of playing the defending national champs?
The Nebraska game is a big ten game. So, yes.
so, WHEN the topic comes up, I'll report back here as to what he says.
I can't seem to find one iota of my being that gives a crap whether or not the band makes the trip. This coming from a high school marching band member and someone who lived with numerous mmb members during my time on campus. Neg away.
No thanks. I fully support the AD's decision on this one. 400 g's is a lot of money to blow just for the honor of having the band play the victors a couple of times. Unless the band is going to perform a super bowl-like halftime show with Madonna, then I'd rather use the money for better things (e.g., paying off stadium renovation loans, upgrading facilities, recruiting top-notch coaches, etc).
if the $400,000 was enough to make a serious impact on the 2012 budget. Given that the 2012 budget already expects an $11-million surplus, it doesn't.
Unless the AD has a specific project in mind that he needs all of the $11-million surplus to go towards that isn't already included in the budget. I'd be willing to listen to that, but I feel that it's time for the AD to justify his actions when this budget also includes
1) raising the per-ticket price for a home slate that got worse this year compared to last at a per-game basis, and
2) sold off a home game to the highest bidder.
Well actually I've heard that there's going to be a ~$10 million dollar renovation to the front of Schembechler Hall in the not-so-distant future, so maybe $400K does make a difference and *shocker* Dave Brandon knows what the hell he's doing. Contrary to popular belief, money does NOT in fact grow on trees, especially $10 million dollars worth.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather have my school get state-of-the-art facilities for the football program for the foreseeable future than have our fight song play after a touchdown in what will inevitably be drowned out by fans anyway.
Now I'd prefer it if Dave Brandon said that himself or otherwise indicated it somehow, but if that turns out to be true then I will be more sympathetic towards Dave Brandon. Sadly, I won't believe this rumormongering until something with a little more substance comes out.
LOL. You'd just rather believe the rumormongering that he's doing this to milk every cent out of the program?
Don't believe me then, I don't have to validate what I've been told to you.
But as the gentleman above me said, you're rumormongering just as much as I supposedly am. Maybe you're right, and Mr. Brandon only took the job to further his own career and suck every penny out of the program and the student athletes only to eventually leave and organize a military coup to take over the Midwest, one state at a time.
Open your eyes. Cash is plenty. You really think the renovation was planned with the 4.5 million we got from jerry world and espn? In case you are unfamiliar with construction timelines and project forecasting.. Not how it works sport. The band doesn't get seats negotiated for them before hand, if they were never going in the first place. That money was intended for that use among other things. Otherwise the contract portion for the seats would not have been there.
Also when you contradicted yourself about DB "knowing what he is doing" by running a 10 mil deficit in the near future in the same sentence... Well that just makes perfect sense
Talk about contradicting oneself...
Last time I checked, 11 (million) - 10 (million) = 1 (million). That's if the project were to be completed solely with this year's projected surplus, which is positive. that's not a deficit if the net result is still positive. And as you said, these things aren't planned overnight so the project wouldn't be funded entirely by this year's profit. Even if they did begin funding it with this year's profit they surely wouldn't use all of it, and would still have a substantial profit margin.
And if you think that the cash made from this game doesn't at least partially go towards that project, you're incredibly ignorant.
To say that renovations to the facility where the football team spends the vast majority of its time are a waste of $10 million dollars is another ignorant statement. If we want to continue reeling in elite recruits, we need to stay on par with or above our competition, and state-of-the-art facilities are one of the major attractions to many, many recruits. The renovations will pay dividends in the future, there's no doubt about that.
Although yes, I would have liked to have the band at the game, it's not the end of the world and the expenses saved won't just go to the Dave Brandon Strippers and Blow Foundation, they'll go towards something beneficial to the program. Sure you might not agree with some of the things he's done for the program, but he's modernized the athletic department and done substantially more good than bad for it. If you think not too far back, an athletic director in the past by the last name of Canham often made 'radical' and unpopular choices at the time, including hiring an Ohio boy with a goofy last name, but you don't see anyone badmouthing him anymore.
EDIT: Wow, didn't realize how long that turned out. Sorry to everyone, but having talked to the man once in the past I respect him and I find it difficult to tolerate relatively clueless people bad-mouthing him because he made the decision to not bring the band to a game.
I’m not going to spend the inordinate amount of time replying that you did. My work pushes the envelope of sanity with hours worked. However, to simply think that I believe the man to be that ignorant is a fallacy. While I do believe defending him to be just that. Time and time again things are taken away, and nothing is reciprocated.
Expanded facilities, great. Not that an average fan could afford a suite, but such is the world now, ok. Raised ticket prices, ok my team is worth it. Selling a home game away for the sake of expanding a brand and then not bringing said brand, full circle? No way!
To speak to the financial side, if he spends 10 million of the 11 million, you honestly believe that extra mil isn't going to vaporize? Apologies if i offended but let's get real here. All of these decisions while great for the few, are largely poor for the many.
Big Boys, make Big Decisions. Brandon did this for many reasons I am sure and some of it has to do with precedent. The band doesnt travel everywhere the team goes. If this game was in Tuscaloosa or Eugene, they wouldn't be going either.
Everyone acts like there is like $400K in Keesh on Brando's desk. For all we know the money done been spent. On things like LAX and everything else that depends on football to exist. I would rather have Varsity LAX than the band in Dallas.
If the band wants to go so badly, they should bake a lot of cookies and start selling them.
Chill the fuck out. Everything will work itself out. Someone send Mr. Ross an email about this $400k is is just chump change to him.
If Brandon has a specific reason why the band can't travel, why not just voice and let that be that? Atleast we will know why and these damn 3, 4, 5 day unnecessary threads can stop.
I hope that a big-money donor doesn't bail out Dave Brandon here. If Brandon makes a public statement saying the department screwed up the budget and didn't account for the band, I would probably be more forgiving and hope that a Ross-type comes forward to pay for travel expenses. Until that happens, I'd prefer it be the good will of Brandon to make it all better with the pile of money he's receiving to even play this game.
The program needs more money for football. Kick ass and take names Brandon.
I love how everyone can spend other people's EARNED income so easily but don't get behind the idea of using money the school was GIVEN! Thats the point here.
...DB is using this as a petty ruse. We'll hear the band the way he wants us to hear it: pre-recorded, over loudspeakers. No antiquated equipment, no overhead, no nerds! It's a trial run to become a market leader: the first major program to disband their marching band entirely and move to a completely generic, unremarkable game day experience.
Your tin foil hat has clearly come off Ernis. Might want to re-attach it!
Bring back the actual football season...PLEASE.
Fact: If this news leaked the week of the Alabama game, and we had a game the next week 75% of you wouldn't give a shit as we moved into Week 2.
Dave Brandon had no idea what kind of fire storm this would bring on. If he don't do something soon he might be looking to change his twitter account. He thought firing RR and hiring Hoke would be problematic? OMG we may have had a horrible three years with RR but at least we had a band.
Considering how quickly the outrage has died down around here, I'd say he's almost survived the fire storm.
This just in- The Alabama AD has decided not to send their band in support of Dave Brandon's decision. The Alabama fans, in support of his decision, have vowed to simply SING their fight song if/when they score a TD or FG. In other fake news, scientists have verified that the moon IS actually made of green cheese!! In real news, now I'm hungry.
You're wrong about the Alabama AD. He hasn't decided yet, but he is leaning in that direction now that the fans created an online petition.
We just received word from our band director that WE'RE GOING TO DALLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw twitter blowing up about it. I've been refreshing like crazy waiting for the gory details to be divulged on MGoBoard.
They going! Yay!
Reputable link http://twitter.com/BryanDFischer/statuses/194839383852060674
Per @nickbaumgardner, Michigan's band will be heading to Dallas for the 2012 FB opener vs. Alabama.