Day 2 Marching Band not going to Dallas RAGE thread
Three days ago, I received an email invite from the AD and Phire Branding to participate in a survey. I'm guessing I am not the only one who was invited, but neverless thought I'd share it with MGoNation in case it was not widely distributed.
The body of the email stated:
"University of Michigan Athletics has contracted Phire Branding Company to perform the following brief survey. The goal of the survey is to provide Michigan Athletics with a better understanding of how to connect and build stronger relationships with their supporters. The information will be kept confidential and will not be used for solicitation. Results will remain anonymous and are not cross-referenced."
Please help do your part in supporting Michigan Athletics by responding with your suggestions on how the Athletic Department could better connect and builder stronger relationships with its supporters.
It costs twice as much to send the band than the football team. I think the football team might be a little more important. Does the band really bring 400-500k worth of value to the game? I don't think so. The AD is already (presumably) sending the band to ND, OSU, B1G Championship game (if we play to our full potential), and a bowl. Asking them to send the band to more games is kinda absurd. I'll probably get attacked for this. How dare I have a different opinion.
I'd agree if we were tight on cash. Sure it's not imperative, but the whole point of having a $100million + budget and multi-million dollar surpluses year after year is so that we can afford luxuries that other schools can't - like providing the live soundtrack to our football team.
They're now saying cash isn't the problem. Its the contract. It only allows a certain amount of games. They just need to change the contract...
And if money is the problem, I'm sure Michigan has enough money!
This is ridiculous
BTW, is Bama sending their band?
....and within budget, of course, how mini is mini? We wouldn't want to do anything that our AD deems excessive.
send that mariachi band that appeared in the chemistry class Zorro caper a few weeks ago? Better than nothing.
counts as $70 a ticket to see UMass which benefits him. DB will always be for it if it benefits him. A lot of people took last year's FB ticket increase in stride because there was no way DB could raise ticket prices for the 2012 season season with the crappy home schedule we have. You know what happens when you assume.
The road games they go to are within reasonable traveling distance. This is a road game (whether you like it or not) not a bowl game and it's REALLY far away. Why aren't people mad that we aren't sending them to Nebraska this year, or Iowa last year, or any of the countless road games that aren't within busing distance?
In essense, Michigan and Alabama are sharing a "home game" in exchange for a big check. We should have all the trappings of a home game, especially since Alabama will have their home luxuries.
That's not even getting to the PR nightmare where the world perceives the Michigan AD as so cash-strapped that the football team has to play without a band to cheer them on.
I'm guessing a pr nightmare about his department being characterized as cash strapped is not high on DB's list of concerns. Do you really think the average person watching that game is going to think - no Michigan Marching band - the Michigan athletic department must be going bankrupt?
They are going to be to focused on seeing Denard, Fitz, Kovacs and the rest of the team beat Alabama and when they do, I suspect they'll think the athletic department is doing ok.
I think it's a big topic of discussion during GameDay, absolutely.
Whether Brandon cares or not is a good question, but apparently he's getting a ton of negative feedback.
I'm not sure which one of is it is, but I think one of us has a very skewed viewpoint of how much people care about the band.
Possible conversations about the band I could see
Possible opening: So, there's a big comtreversy in Ann Arbor about whether David Brandon should have paid for the band to come down here
Possible replies - shows you how far this program has come in two years, they don't have to worry about a coaching contreversy, the only worries are, should they spend half a million dollars on the band
I imagine that contreversy will die down when Denard takes one to the house.
Which one of your teachers needs to be fired?
float a trial ballon like so many politicians do and he has done in the past to guage the public's perception. The ONLY thing Brandon cares about is the bottom line.
Despite constantly talking about "branding" and the Michigan image, this decision seems to fly in the face of what is good for "branding." A huge national TV audience and Michigan is to cheap to send the band. I can see that being turned into a negative recruiting tool.
Why aren't you aware that its NOT a road game?
The team is not spending two weeks in Dallas like a bowl game. The team is not staying on campus like a home game. The transportation expenses for this game are just a little bit more than busing the team from an Ann Arbor hotel using buses owned by the University.
I don't see anyone asking them to send the band to more games (plural) . . . just this one additional game - which, let's not forget, is taking the place of a home game for us.
The ND and OSU games are not funded by the AD. The band takes care of that.
$400-500k is a pretty good rate for a 4 hour commercial for the University of Michigan athletic department. The band should be there. The world's best fight song, "The Victors," should be there.
If we were losing quality assistant coaches like Borgess or Mattison or were not able to compete for top caliber coaches, I'd start to be upset with DB for being cheap, if we were losing out on basketball recruits because our facilities didn't stack up I'd be upset with DB. No band in TX - not so upset.
I'm guessing that when we beat Alabama, there will not be alot of people saying - I really would have enjoyed this game if only the band had been there.
That having been said - if you all think the band should go - why not start a kickstart project in support of it?
The kickstart idea has been thrown around, and I'm in full support (with both effort and money). But doesn't it set kind of a bad precedent that when Brandon poorly plans something and the experience will be missing an important element, the fans have to organize an independent fundraising project to get that element back? If you can't send the band to a "home" game, then ask for more money in the deal, don't sign the contract, or go the fans yourself with your hand out in an organized way, which DB has plenty of experience doing.
First - thanks for the thoughtful reply.
Second, can anyone respond to the band's relationship to the athletic department? Does the athletic department have any financial responsibility to ensure that the band plays at a certain number of games? It is not clear to me why DB not budgetting for the band is poor planning. If he hadn't budhetted for the football teams travel, I would be quite concerned, but it is not clear to me why it should be the athletic departments responsibility. If they want to go - let em pay for it.
I can't comment on the exact nature of the relationship between the band and AD, although there are definitely people qualified to answer that.
I will say that I believe the AD's responsibility is to maximize this "experience". For all the hassle this game has been for season ticket holders, students, fans that actually reside in the state of Michigan, ect. this game needs to be an event to remember. Instead, we're sitting here talking about Alabama having their fight song and no Victors. That seems out of whack to me, especially since the same department is projecting an eight figure surplus (that it cannot keep).
The MMB is an ensemble of the School of Music. Athletics doesn't pay for normal away game trips, though it has in the past offered to do so for bigger games (for instance, the MMB almost travelled to the 2006 PSU game based on the team wanting them there, but it ended up falling through when PSU couldn't give us seats). Athletics pays for the MMB to attend bowl games.
Yet the point here is this is not a normal road game, nor has Athletics treated it as such until Dave Brandon feigned sticker shock on the cost of the band. Yet as I pointed out yesterday, Athletics knows exactly how much it costs to send a band somewhere, as it deals with the costs of such a thing every year during bowl planning. If they didn't intend to take the band for cost reasons, the information to make that decision was readily available before the contract was even signed and that could have been stated to the band far earlier. Dave Brandon has acted as if it was some sort of surprise. Not so much.
If this is a fishing expedition to save Athletics $400k and get a donor to step up, it's an awfully risky PR decision to do so. And far beneath the pale of what Michigan stands for. It's the kind of decision you make at a University facing a deficit, not an $11 million surplus and a $5 million payout for a neutral-site home game.
This is my last year at Michigan. The game in Dallas is "replacing" one of the home games of my last year here. I'm paying a ridiculous amount of money to see Michigan play in an NFL stadium in a situation where doing a home-and-home would've been twice as awesome but wouldn't have made as much money. So, when the sales pitch for doing the game at a very expensive (but TERRIBLE place to watch a football game) stadium is that it's a great opportunity to make more money for the program, don't complain about not having the money to send the band there. If Bama were coming here, we'd have the band here and then no one would care that the band didn't travel to Tuscaloosa the following year. Plus, I don't know if it's just me, but I'd think band members putting in all those hours would like to have the opportunity to play at more than six home games. Not to mention the fact that people around here have said the band itself pays for the trips to rival away games (although don't know if that's true for sure).
I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!
listening to DBs LAME remarks....him saying if theres anybody out there that wants to fund the band please CALL HIM???? isnt that YOUR JOB DAVE BRANDON??? Im getting to dislike him more and more
I have a feeling this is some sort of bargaining chip for Brandon. Maybe the band doesn't want to spend the money, or they don't want to chip in. This outrage may make them give in. He's done this before with the timing of The Game and other things. The only difference is he's actually addressed the current issue. Regardless. I think he's either testing us or trying to convince someone else that the money is worth it. I would be willing to bet that the MMB will be in Dallas for the game.
This is not a good call. When you schedule Michigan, you should get the whole Michigan experience!
I think David will figure this out. It's just going to be painful along the way.
if Bama wasn't bringing there band I could see us not, but I don't think we should let Bama upstage us. We are College Football!!! isn't that what we said last year?? College Football means Marching Band, not hokey piped in music.
It's not DB's job to do what you all think is best. It's to do what he thinks is best for Michigan Athletics. No one here has enough information to understand his decision making process, so it is completely pointless that all of our fans are whining about this.
I'll stop having an opinion about matters relating to Michigan football, and just put my trust in DB. In the meantime, let me know when he's settled on an explanation for his "decision making process," so I'll know how to properly parrot my support.
I'm not saying don't have an opinion. But the amount of uproar surrounding this situation is unneccessary.
They were making fun of Michigan today on XM radio channel 91. I think it's Billy Packers son and Eddie George that have a show at 9am. Packer was saying that Michigan is loaded with $ and one of the biggest programs in the nation. He continued to say that it was embarrassing how cheap Michigan was being. He went on to say Michigans band is one of the great things about college football and they should be there. Some Alabama fans called in and made fun of Michigan as well. This is suppose to be a showcase game for Michigan to put the rest of the college football world on alert that we're back. What a joke.
Aren't we the home team? If so, shame we can't have our band there.
6 home games x 100,000 people = 600,000 tickets. So would you add a $0.66 band goes to Dallas for nationally televised primetime game against reigning national champ surcharge per game ticket? I would.
false pal. the bowl committee foots the bill for our band to come to the bowl games.
"Are people still pissed like I am?"
Let me put it this way: Mel Gibson is a fraud when it come to comparing his "anger" to mine!!
I DESERVE TO BE BLOWN BEFORE THE FUCKING JACUZZI!
okay guys, seriously, someone get a hold of stephen ross or another multi-million dollar alumnus. ask them to make a personal donation to the marching band to get them down to dallas. ohio had the same problem back in '06 when they had to go to UT, but someone footed a 250k bill for the band to get down there.
this is michigan, fergodsakes. its not like we don't have the resources. our band NEEDS TO FUCKING BE THERE!!!
Sorry, I've been living in a hole for the last few months... does anyone know if Alabama's band will be there?
Yes they will be.
They will not!
I WISH I was living in a hole recently so I didn't have to hear the complaining over this topic that has been beat to death and exaggerated beyond belief.
In case you haven't been keeping count - here you go:
1. Trayvon Martin story
2. Michigan not sending its Marching Band to Dallas
3. Election 2012
9. Bobby Petrino saga
17. Secret Service/Prostituates story
143. Anything actually related to the Michigan football TEAM (ie: Players, Coaches, Staff)
I know you didn't just say Trayvon Martin story.... WOW. SMH.
"Treating this like a road game"
When I go this is going to feel like I am @ Northwestern?
arghhh why couldn't we have a home and home??
My fire is still red hot! And no donors should have to shell out cash they earned. DB needs to use the money he was GIVEN. Remember no "brand" is invincible "lehman brothers". You can only give and TAKE so much in this world.
Why would we use donor money like ohio? We are superior so we say.. Lets prove it!
I'm still pissed cuz we are not representing the University without having our fight song there!!! Unbelievable
So we are not representing the University when we play at Penn State, Purdue, Indiana, or any other road games the band doesn't go to?
Another voice mail for David Brandon!!! Join me folks 734-764-9416
When do we want it?
Desmond Howard twitter: I can't get back into the country good without being tossed into a twitter movement
@MMBandtoDallas..wait, what? Can Denard go?
You guys can't come up with something better to cry about? What about the crappy overpriced pizza? Now there is a cause worth fighting for...
This makes me sick to my stomach that band is not going, where will Team 133 go and sing the Victors after they win???
This isn't just some average everyday away game during the nonconference "preseason" against Baby Seal U. This is opening day against the defending Nat Champs on a national stage. Kind of a big deal. If Bama does send their band then Michigan will look cheap.
Normal nonconference away game, fine, no band. Seems to me though that this was put on the schedule to show the country that Michigan is back. Gota have the band!
From what I can tell, the AD does not, and has not paid for the band to go to away games in the past - the band picks up it's own expense.
If that's the case, this solution seems simple: if the band, an organization with it's own well-publicized and well-organized fundraising arm, wants to go to Dallas, they can pay for it, like they do for every other game that doesn't take place on campus. This isn't a home game, those occur on campus and don't require expense to attend. There is no precedent at Michigan, or anywhere for this sort of expense for a band trip. If you can't understand why Alabama would have theirs, I'd suggest you look at a map, then ask if the band getting a charter paid.
You have a vast alumni network, band. You have an easy to find fundraising website. Get fundraising, and maybe you can reduce the price tag to a degree the AD will do a favor. We like to say we are better than OSU - well, in 2006, faced with a similar situation, the Buckeyes reaped $250k in donations, which prompted the AD to give the rest.
Like anything, the money the AD would use for this will be spent elsewhere - if nothing else, most of their budget surplus generally goes as a donation to the University's General Scholarship Fund. If your argument is that a trip to Dallas is worth more than $400-$500k in scholarships to normal students, it's an argument I disagree with.
Regardless, this will be a Michigan football game - I've enjoyed many the band hasn't attended. Even on TV.
This, and the wall Rodriguez faced when he showed up are examples of the degree to which Michigan Athletics is a firing squad of special interests, with vocal minorities against night games, conference expansion, divisional alignment, music on the PA, and even the renovation. I don't envy Brandon, we can do nothing without someone feeling aggrieved.
The band will do that right after everyone starts paying a "band surcharge" for every football ticket they buy. $20 per ticket per game should do it.
The kids who are in the band give up 15 - 25 hours per week (including off weeks) during the fall; they give up a good portion of their holiday break for bowl games, and they share (for free) their incomparable talent. And with a few token exceptions (facilitated NOT through the University or the Athltetic Department, but through the FUNDRAISING you mention) they don't do it for any sort of scholarship.
In addition to the few small scholarships that are given, the band has to pay for directors, staff, uniforms, instruments, music, equipment, insurance, etc. Most of what makes the band look and sound so good and uniform and consistent IS in fact, private fundraising.
I agree that not everyone values the band the same, but to suggest that they are just a "special interest" is to truly undermine the effort and committment of these kids.
I dont question the hard work, dedication, or skill it takes to be in the band. I love the band, and think they are an integral part of game day in Ann Arbor.
I don't accept that the AD, which has no financial relationship to the band, is obligated to charter two jets to send them to Dallas. Would I prefer to seem them there? Yes. Would I assume they go, and scream and cry when they don't? No.
And I'm sorry, a group of 150 people throwing a hissy that they dont get a $400k vacation to see a football game is the very definition of a special interest group. Thats 400k less that gies in the scholarship fund.
It isn't really the band that seems to be throwing the hissy -- it is a bunch of people that *LIKE* the band. And for Dave "the Brand" Brandon, isn't the MMB a significant part of the brand and therefore something the AD should facilitate. Not every time, but this time. IMHO, of course.
I wasn't in the band, but I have always felt as though they are the closest relative of the living entity that is the football team. Making the decision because of money, although probably the "right play" from an administrative standpoint, still seems very wrong to me.
I want to DB to look at our financial situation and be like "screw it, we're Michigan, we can swing it."
Maybe we should fund-raise...I'm in for $50.
The game could rival last year's Notre Dame/Michigan night game in it's spectacle. It's the 1st week of the season, Alabama's first game following its National Championship, probably ESPN's Game Day telecast, resurgent Michigan ranked in the top 10, neutral site, prime time, national telecast, Alabama's rabid fans, Michigan's rabid fans, Alabama's Marching Band. What's lacking? #SendtheBand
Can someone give me a rough cost breakdown on the $500,000 please? Im not seeing why it costs so much to get a bunch of buses to and fro, with lodging for two days. Maybe I don't realize how many band members there are or how many buses and rooms needed, and the costs of each, but I'd like to see it on paper.
By the way, I totally back Brandon on this. That 500K saved, some of it can go to the Music school, and the rest banked for the athletic program. Its a necessary decision and am happy Brandon has the discpline to do so. Now, the ridiculous jerseys he chose for the ND game, is another story.
Not sure if the information was accurate, but someone in a previous thread claimed Brandon offered to pay to bus the band to Dallas but the band declined, wanting to fly instead.
Not true at all.
Would you just SEND THE DAMN BAND, huh? Mother of MERCY!!