Dave Brandon is the voice of the Athletic Department and if anyone is going to address the possibility of bringing Chris Webber back into the Michigan fold and the conditions under which that could happen, it would be him.
Dave Brandon's Fab 5 Appearence
M can't even contact him for two years, why push the issue?
Maybe because it was a documentary on the issue? I'm sure that didn't have anything to do with it though.
I would say, yes. Out of line. C-Webb will apologize if and when he wants to, and I don't care if or when he does, because he's still the shit either way. The questions is, when will DB apologize for calling for that apology?
But perhaps you and I have different ideas of what it means to "be the shit."
How anybody can be mad at David Brandon, and not Chris Webber, for the Michigan basketball scandal, is really beyond comprehension.
Chris Webber, poor expolited millionaire that he is (Detroit Country Day School, University of Michigan dropout, NBA retiree) still is, after many years, "a shit." Not necessarily "the shit."
True wit is Nature to Advantage dress'd,
What oft was Thought, but N'eer so well express'd.
The answer is simple: For me, Chris Webber represents more of what I love about the university than Brandon does. I don't care if he broke the rules of his scholarship, or that he supposedly set Michigan basketball back, because the Fab 5, Webber specifically, were very postive, influential figures, and have shone light on Michigan athletics. The moral judgement of a young kid such as Webber is what is beyond comprehension. If I'm in that position, and I see the money the university is making off me, coupled with the bullshit, racist mail I'm recieving from bassakwards, uppity alumni fucks - which I know you call bullshit on because you can't face the facts- I'm taking the money too. No doubt, fill my pockets right up, Mr. Martin. Shit, C-Webb should be the AD, as he and his teammates did more for Michigan Athletics than any other persons in recent memory. Hence, Brandon and some other alumni should be apologizing to him and the whole Fab 5 for the way they have been scapegoated as the reason Michigan Basketball has struggled because, frankly, they still can't handle the Fab 5's street countenance. They're still just too fucking real for the office fat cats to handle.
Wow that got me jacked up. +1 to you
I was fine with it because he said what everyone else has been saying for the last 10 years. The no contact rule doesn't prevent him from admitting what he did.
I don't have an opinion on Db's appearance, one way or the other, but one thing is evidently clear; this group of 5 basketball players continues to stir up a ton of emotions amongst fans and foes, alike.
I think Jalen's comments at the end of the show summed it up best:
(and I paraphrase): "Name me who won the title 2 years ago. 3 years ago? 5? Name the starting lineup of Duke, when they beat us."
he actually said of the North Carolina team but still...
I thought he came off kinda weird, it was awkward to watch.
My wife said "is he wearing lipstick?" Go back and look at the video....it sure as hell looks like he is.
Now that's wierd.
I noticed that too. Looked like it hurt
Yeah, it was definitely his lips that threw me off. If there wasn't something actually wrong with them, like chapped, etc. it may have just been the lighting.
It's as if he said: "Jalen, if you want access to Michigan resources like the Bentley library, I want 30 seconds in your documentary".
He got his 30 seconds. I'm surprised he didn't use 20 of it to hit people up for donations to the Crisler renovations.
That was so odd considering someone would be giving makeup to the guy so he looks good on video.
He had a very "fishy" look to him. (Think Don Knotts as Mr. Limpett.)
As well as the odd lighting while he was being filmed.
Brandon is the head of the athletic department. It's his call and MSC's call as to if and when Webber comes back into the fold. I think Brandon was reasonable in what he said.
Does anyone like her? Anyone?
Most successful fundraising campaign in the history of the country (The Michigan Difference), the school's rankings have consistently increased since she's been here. What exactly has she done wrong? Taking down those banners to save our program from getting hammered by the NCAA OSU-style (hopefully)? I think that was the right call. And I think she's a great president.
If you have a problem with her, you didn't go to the University bc she has done nothing but improve the standing of the university the whole time she has been here. Yes, there are those rumblings that she entered the coaching frey, which is nothing but pure speculation by people who wanted JH at any cost.
I think she deserves some of the blame for allowing Brandon to fire RR.
What has Mary Sue ever done to make people hate her?
In relation to the Fab 5 I wasn't thrilled when we tried to shake down Chris Webber for 600k in restitution. What he did was wrong, but I don't agree with the decision to try to sue a former student over it. We should have just moved on instead of putting the whole issue back in the press in '03 when we made the demands.
She is doing a fine job, as far as I can tell.
She's a heckuva lot better than the jerkweed who proceeded her - Liberal Lee.
I don't trust David Brandon for a tenth of a second, and I don't like him. However, that doesn't mean he is wrong all of the time. I think the University has every right to ask for an apology from Webber.
I can't say it strongly enough: if not for Chris Webber, MSU would not have dominated basketball in the state for the last 12-15 years. Michigan would have been a perennial NCAA Tournament team, and Tom Izzo would have been a decent coach in the Jud Heathcoate mold, because he wouldn't have had carte blanche with every player in the state for recruiting. Steve Fisher might even have been THE beloved, father-figure coach in Michigan.
Webber gave us two years of excitement, but damaged the program for the next fifteen, and he has never apologized or even admitted that he did anything wrong. Brandon is a reptile, but he is right on this one; Webber owes the University of Michigan an apology.
The dreary record of Michigan basketball since the Fab Five is largely due to other factors than Webber or other players taking money from Martin. The penalties were largely inappropriate and excessive in my opinion - they punished players and coaches who had nothing to do with the infractions. That's the fault of a corrupt NCAA. A lot of the blame also lies with those who hired Ellerbe and Amaker. Ellerbe was goddawful and had no business coaching any basketball team let alone Michigan. Amaker was better but still an awful coach - he could recruit but he did not make good use of talent.
By all means, let's not let the facts get in the way. M basketball was ignored FOR YEARS after the whole scandal. Add to that terrible coaching hires. This whole mess is not the fault of just one person ... not the fault of just Chris Webber.
and a string of awful coaches is the main one. But I think he's referring to Steve Fisher's firing. We lost an amazing coach who likely would've maintained the team's dominance for years to come. Hope Beilein's on the road to restoring all this!
Actually, don't Louis Bullock, Robert Traylor, and Maurice Taylor deserve far more blame? If not for them, we'd have been outside the statute of limitations. Not to mention, by that point, they were explicitly told not to associate with Ed Martin, and there were photographs of him handed out to the players? I feel that they deserve way, way more blame than they ever seem to get in these discussions.
Most significantly, they did not have the longtime relationship with Martin that Webber did. There is a "family friend" provision in the rules that allows longtime acquaintances to offer gifts. You could, arguably, make the case that Ed Martin qualified as a family friend of Webber's, since they first made contact when he was in middle school. You can't for the others.
Are we forgetting Ed Martin? He had something to do with this too. And Webber wasn't the only one who accepted money. And what about Fisher? He either is not telling the truth about not knowing what was going on, or was incompetent for not being more in control of the people hanging around the program. Finally, we can't exonerate the U-M administration for not being more diligent and exercising more institutional controls. The point is there's plenty of blame to go around - not JUST Chris Webber.
and that is because how he helped people I know. But why did it look like he was wearing some crazy ass lipstick?
David Brandon said exactly what the Michigan Athletic Department needed to say about the 10 year separation of Chris Webber from the University in an official capacity and when you have the NCAA watching your program, you say EXACTLY what they want to hear and nothing more or less, even if you don't believe it in your heart or your potential payday in 2013.
By the way, am I the only one here who doesn't want the univeristy to re-establish a relationship with CWeb and the others?
It's just you.
I think you should specify who the others are. if you mean players who knowingly violated terms of their academic scholarship agreenment with the university, then i will agree. if you mean players who played on the same team with rule breaking players, i say no.
The Ed Martin scandal and ensuing probation didn't torpedo our basketball program by itself. I'd say 2 poor coaching choices in Ellerbe and Amaker were also big. And add to that the long delays by Michigan's administrators to upgrade Crisler and the b-ball facilities while "The Jones" of the Big Ten and college basketball invested in theirs.
Technically, it didn't happen, right? The whole thing has been erased. So, really, what's there to apologize for?
I know he's the AD and speaks for the department as a whole but I thought he came off a little on the arrogant side. And, like was posted earlier, if contact can't even be made with Webber until 2013, what good does asking for an apology now do?
Either way, those were amazing times and they would not have happened without Chris Webber!
is to help speed the healing process.
Second: Maybe if we can recruit some more whinning, selfish, liars we could have some more amazing times.
Stating the facts about a guy who contributed to the program being placed on probation. Yes, I want C-Webb back, but lets not go out of our way to bash a guy who has been stellar on the job.
Brandon would need to handle a reconciliation with Webber carefully. Bringing him back into the fold won't be popular with the more conservative element of the Michigan fanbase, and as we saw with how the whole Rich Rod tenure went down, the conservative elements in Michigan hold a lot of sway.
Jalen Rose means way more to this program nowadays because Chris Webber is insignificant. Rose is all over the networks(meaning ESPN and ABC), which means that his voice echoes more in the sports world.
Webber will go down in NBA history as one of the probably top 100 players of all time (despite having underachieved to some degree), and he is an analyst on TNT and NBA TV, so he's certainly still relevant.
I don't think Brandon needs to say anything because CWebb is never going to apologize. He felt that the University benefitted immensely from the Fab 5 and then kind of threw him and the rest under the bus, and I doubt that mindset will change. Brandon was acting in his capacity as AD to say that, so I don't care that he may not have been directly attached to the department when the Martin controversy occurred.
Gets on my nerves. I can't stand him.
That seems a little strong. How can you be so tormented by someone you don't have personal contact with?
EDIT: Fan for life, eh?
no i don't have a personal relationship with him but from what ive seen i just don't like. maybe im still bitter from the rr firing but he could have just said something last night like "the fab 5 changed college basketball to a trend that everyone else followed" instead of "C-Webb needs to apologize". He just seemed cocky
btw...just because i can't stand db doesn't mean i'm not a fan. I still cheer for blue!
I'm not sure that our AD should glamorize (if you will) this group's impact on college basketball. The fact of the matter is, it was one of the most disgraceful abuses of amature athletics in the modern era. It's a complete black eye to our atheltic department, basketball program, and univeristy.
It's a documentary people. It wasn't some off the cuff random interview that DB did talking about the Fab 5 and Chris Webber. I'm willing to bet there is a lot more footage from DB that is on the cutting room floor. (And it's also possible that what we saw is all of what his interview was.)
I don't think it's a "maybe" that you're still bitter about the RR firing... you still are.
On my tv it looked like he was wearing lipstick.
camera often wear makeup, including lipstick (yes, even men).
I think the point of wearing makeup is so the person( Including men) doesn't look freakish or like a clown.
I hate Dave Brandon. He wasn't involved and I felt awkward that he spoke about the ordeal like he was and like he knew Chris Webber. I hate Dave Brandon still.
ITT: An excuse to talk about how much you hate Dave Brandon. If Bill Martin said the same thing, would you really be saying these things?
couldn't agree more - some people are going to turn every single event into a reason that dave brandon stinks, despite the fact that they have no earthly idea what it is, exactly, he does.
I was really just trying to get an idea of what people thought about his appearence on the show and his call for Webber to apologize. If I had an anti-Brandon motive you would have seen me address my problems with him, i.e. the fact that it took 2 days to fire RR and that he got played by Harbaugh and Miles during the "national search".
Trust me, I have enough frustration and bitterness from earlier this year to start multiple threads bashing Brandon's clusterfuck of mismanagment. You wouldn't need to guess at my motivation. I don't do that because it wouldn't be constructive. What's done is done. At the same time I realize my previous experience with Brandon compromises my ability to objectively analyize his actions as AD. That's why I wanted to get a consensus opinion from the MGoCommunity.
Didn't watch it/Couldn't watch it. Webber's actions destroyed the program, and in my opinion, that destruction was directly coupled with MSU's rise.
He should never be associated with the program again.
I didn't think I was going to be able to watch it either since most of the aftermath led to the years of darkness that are only now lifting. But it was a really well done documentary and probably worth your time.
When I saw the clip of the Webber TO against UNC in the final, I couldn't watch it. Pissed me off too much.
There's two college basketball games I just can't get over and that's one of them
- UNC over Michigan because of the Webber timeout
- MSU over SU in 2000 at the Palace when we blew a 10-pt lead with 10 mins left.
Webber's actions destroyed the program,
Unless you can show me evidence that Webber called for his own college coach to be fired and replaced with the newly-hired #3 assistant (a guy who had just been fired by Loyola of Maryland), I'm going to have to strongly disagree with you.
that it was Webber's (and others) corrupt actions that led to those other events. If there was no violation, Fisher would not have been fired, Ellerbee would not have been promoted, etc.
You can argue that Webber's actions eventually caused Fisher to get fired. OK. But you cannot rationally argue that he was responsible for our #1 and #2 assistants to both get passed over in favor of a guy who had just gone 34-47 at Loyola of Maryland. The promotion of Ellerbe was a horrific mistake that anyone could see coming.
To put it into perspective, this would be like Michigan, after firing Rodriguez, deciding to go in-house, deciding to pass over both coordinators, and hiring an assistant who hadn't been here long and who hadn't even demonstrated that he could coach. It would be like us hiring Adam Braithwaite.
Considering DB would be the one profiting off players like Webber. I hope he never apologizes, he was used, and he did what was right FOR HIM (and should be allowed for others). Everywhere else in the world, entertainers get paid.
Yeah, and that works especially well in Canada with youth hockey players.
on this one. MLB said to Rose-if you ever want to be part of baseball you must first tell the truth. Similarly, Michigan is saying to Webber-tell the truth if you want to be part of the University's history. I don't know why that is so hard for Webber, at least the admisssion part. What happened is not in dispute, just some of the details. His refusal to do so is hard to support, especially since it impacts others, including the rest of the Fab Five. Perhaps as 2013 nears, he will do so and the team and its accomplishments can be brought back into the fold, warts and all.
Brandon is our current athletic director. If peace is to be struck between Webber and the university, it will have to go through him. Accordingly, the film needed his stance to be made clear. I don't think he said anything surprising. He reiterated the stance the university has taken since the NCAA investigation.