November 29th, 2013 at 12:34 AM ^
Completely agree. Show me one team where Kiffin has coached up average players. All I've ever seen from him is ride the shoulders of all-NFL caliber players at USC for a few years. Honestly, we need the offensive equivalent of a Narduzzi, not a douche bag talent rider like Kiffin.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:28 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 8:21 PM ^
By keeping Borges for another season after it was clear last year he isn't the guy. The Ohio State game last year was a travesty. He was allowed to continue on this year and only got worse.
November 29th, 2013 at 12:35 AM ^
Don't forget the Nebraska game where in the second half Borges trotted out the most ill-prepared back up QB that I can ever recall in 35 years of following this team.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:32 PM ^
The knell of death has sounded.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:42 PM ^
Recruiting New Jersey was cited in the statement. I'm guessing that (Peppers) was the real reason this statement was delivered. Here's to hoping Hoke and Mattison stay and Borges is gone.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:01 PM ^
November 28th, 2013 at 6:09 AM ^
How exactly is this proactive and not reactive?
November 28th, 2013 at 8:50 AM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 7:42 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 7:46 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 9:27 PM ^
I thought about this when wondering if DB would issue a statement. Obviously, you want to stress to Peppers in particular that his coaches will still be around, but if Borges is indeed gone how to you approach that... I see the AD couldn't come up with a non-obvious way to phase it either. I do feel bad for Borges, but it may be best at this point to cut bait.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:44 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 7:45 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 7:52 PM ^
That will be interesting to see. I don't see him backing down from his visits at this point, but in reality if that was the real reason he was taking them he should be willing to cancel them. If he still takes the visits it may ramp up the pressure between UM and Peppers, which may not be a good thing. Obviously if he doesn't take the visits that would be great.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:47 PM ^
"Brady inherited a team during his first season that had many juniors and seniors who played key roles in previous years. The senior class was recruited by Coach Carr and had some terrific talent that had simply been underperforming."
Something is conspicuous by its absence there. Certainly understandable if you're trying to keep a brand internally consistent ...
November 27th, 2013 at 8:58 PM ^
That was a cheap swipe at RR, who I consider a better man than Brandon could ever hope to be. The 2011 11-2 season was thanks to Denard Robinson, who was recruited by and developed by RR, not LC.
November 27th, 2013 at 9:15 PM ^
and kicking games were finally competent.
Secondly, none of us truly know anything about the persons involved. All I know is that RichRod has managed to piss off quite a few people at WVU and Michigan. That surely isn't on accident.
RichRod was treated poorly here, but I don't think he is the saint you think he is.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:50 PM ^
I think Denard Robinson was more of a factor than the kicking game. What about Kovacs? The list is endless. These are all Michigan Men that thrived thanks to Rich Rodriguez.
Leaving RichRod out of the discussion when discussing the sugar bowl roster and who recruited them is definitely a cheap shot. The douchery of Brandon (or whomever wrote this for him) continues.
November 28th, 2013 at 9:05 AM ^
Thrived? Hahahahaha. If you think how the team performed uner RR was thriving, you dont understand the meaning of that word.
November 28th, 2013 at 12:00 AM ^
" who I consider a better man than Brandon could ever hope to be"
These comments are so stupid.
November 28th, 2013 at 8:27 AM ^
November 28th, 2013 at 10:35 AM ^
This is your indictment of Gibson?
November 28th, 2013 at 4:44 PM ^
In no universe would I consider RR to be a good man.
November 27th, 2013 at 7:52 PM ^
His example for patience is that Nick Saban went 10-3 in year four (after going a combined 26-2 in years two and three, then winning consecutive national titles in years five and six). How about where Jim Harbaugh was in year 4? Is Brady Hoke expected to do that next year?
Brady Hoke was awesome in year one, but now we need to be patient and wait for depth (which was apparently so bad going into his first season that his predecessor needed to get fired before he could do further damage, even if it meant fucking up that recruiting class). Denard, Lewan, Omameh, Schofield, Fitz, Roundtree, Gallon, Roh, Morgan, Ryan, Floyd, Countess, Gordon, and Kovacs had nothing to do with that team being any good (and guys like Avery who had the game clinching INT against OSU, or Vincent Smith who had a huge late TD against ND, or Brandin Hawthorne who had a huge INT against Northwestern). It was all the work of Lloyd Carr's handful of seniors in the starting lineup. The 2011 team had three freshmen starting on defense, but now some youth is an insurmountable killer. Hokes young linemen aren't as good as the young defenders RichRod recruited, so it is RichRod's fault. And that recruiting class Brandon said wasn't as important as finding the right coach is now used as an excuse to back the coach when results are shitty. Fucking genius.
Dave Brandon is a buffoon who fired the wrong guy. This load of crap just exposed his bullshit bias in favor of the "Michigan Man" who is driving the plane into the mountain.
At least now he isn't killing recruiting by needing to "wait until the end of the season and make a full evaluation of the program" but otherwise Dave Brandon can get bent.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:14 PM ^
I don't think he was saying that it was only the Carr recruits, just that they played a very big role on that team (which they did). No one senior class since that one has been as impactful. Sure, the guys you listed played a big role as well (though it's hard to give RR credit for Kovancs since he didn't recruit him and actually cut him once) but we were a team with a lot of senior leadership of Carr recruits, and that hasn't been the case in 2012 or 2013.
The 2011 team had Molk, Martin, Koger, Van Bergen, Schilling, Demens, Hemingway and Woolfolk. Those were all Carr recruits and were the leaders of the 2011 team. Not to mention we actually had TE depth with Martell Webb and Brandon Moore. RR had some hits over his recruiting classes, no doubt about it. But because his hits were fewer and farther between than we're accustomed to, the last couple years have been more difficult.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:38 PM ^
From 2+ recruiting classes and one that Dave Brandon sabotaged by hanging him out to dry:
QB: Denard Robinson (conference player of the year as a sophomore, Michigan record holder in zillions of categories), Devin Gardner (super talented victim of the Borges effect)
RB: Fitz (1,000 yard season before career killed by the Borges effect), Vincent Smith (1,700+ yards rushing/receiving and 17 TDs), Mike Shaw (1,100+ total yards and 15 TDs)
WR: Roundtree (led B1G in receptions as a sophomore, game winning catches against ND and Northwestern), Gallon (2nd leading receiver in the B1G as a senior)
OL: Lewan (1st team All-American), Omameh (1st team All-B1G coaches, on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers active roster in the NFL), BWC (moved back to D by Hoke, drafted to play OL in the NFL and currently on the Jets active roster), Schofield (quality three year starter who now supposedly sucks because that is required to continue giving this offensive coaching staff a pass)
DL: Roh (4 year starter, All-B1G 2nd team coaches), QWash (two year starter at DT), Black (4 year contributor, senior starter at DT), Beyer (starting as a junior with 2 sacks, 4 TFL and an INT return for a touchdown), note that Roh and Black had their careers shortened by not being able to take a redshirt due to actual lack of depth and would have more impressive total careers otherwise
LB: Jake Ryan (beast, 4 year starter), Desmond Morgan (will be a 4 year starter, thanks for the win against UCONN), Cam Gordon (Freshman All-American, 4 sacks and 7.5 TFL this year, to go along with 3 INT as a freshman).
DB: Floyd (solid starter as upperclassman), Countess (likely 4 year starter, leads B1G with 5 INT), Kovacs (fine don't give Rodriguez credit for him), Thomas Gordon (3 year starter), Furman is probably 50/50 to start next year.
That looks like a pretty solid group. Imagine if they'd had a coach who didn't line up in the I-form and run ISO against Iowa? I don't see a bunch of guys losing their jobs to the supposedly super talented Hoke recruits either. If we had a bunch of guys who were as good as Denard, Roundtree, Lewan, Omameh, etc. were as underclassmen on this year's offense, we'd be dynamite. Instead our AD has to tell us to be patient because the bad man screwed it up by leaving the cupboard so bare I couldn't come up with that long ass list above.
November 27th, 2013 at 9:30 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 11:39 PM ^
November 28th, 2013 at 12:23 AM ^
RB-Smith and Shaw combined for over 1,000 rushing yards in RR's third year (in addition to Denard's 1,700). Green has 219 at 3.1 ypc and no other Hoke back has more than 100 in his third year.
OL-Sorry for thinking guys who don't start as RS freshman still count as players. Or that BWC might have played OL under RR since he moved him to OL when QWash moved to D, Mattison raved about his pro potential as an OL, and he's on an NFL team as an OL.
DL-I'll give you two, Brandon Graham and Mike Martin both got better and were all-conference performers under RR.
LB-Cam Gordon was a 2nd team Freshman All-American as a RS Freshman in 2010 (unless his team bio is a lie) after making 77 tackles, 3.5 TFL and 3 INT (and returning a fumble for a TD), while playing safety and linebacker. This year he is 2nd on the team in both sacks and TFL.
DB-Yeah, those guys and Countess (who is leading the conference in INT and started just a few games after stepping on campus).
I don't know why I wasted this much time responding to a complete moron. Time to walk away, I guess.
November 28th, 2013 at 12:37 AM ^
The OL is so bad that no one can get any rushing yards. For all we know, Derrick Green is a 1000 yard back. If RR was so good, why did he fail to recruit any OL at the end of his tenure.
November 28th, 2013 at 11:54 AM ^
inflamed by the Freep Stretchgate before his second season even started.
I was trying to remember whether any OL left the program that RR recruited.
November 28th, 2013 at 4:46 PM ^
That, and the absolutely awful performances of the team.
November 28th, 2013 at 5:11 PM ^
He recruited Jake Fisher who played in 13 games at Oregon as a freshman and has been a starter there since. He did so despite Brandon screwing him and the team over.
November 28th, 2013 at 5:09 PM ^
Morgan committed to Rodriguez on December 13, 2010. Hoke was hired on January 11, 2011.
November 28th, 2013 at 2:50 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 8:17 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 8:19 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 8:26 PM ^
If I'm pandering to the Michigan fanbase as a whole, I'm mentioning Carr and not Rodriguez as well. And I liked RR (well, for 2.5 seasons at least). I also don't think he's wrong. That 2011 team had a large and strong senior class, both in terms of talent and leadership. It hasn't had as much of that since.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:37 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 8:50 PM ^
Lashed out at shit you weren't saying.
November 27th, 2013 at 8:27 PM ^
November 28th, 2013 at 12:26 AM ^
I'm not saying DB shouldn't have fired Rodriguez, I'm just saying I'd be comfier with his leadership if he acted like a professional and not an ego-mad ass. Even the rest of the statement - mentioning Mattison and the defense by name but not Borges. The passive aggressive stuff is cheap and low. Say what you mean, or suck it up and say you support all of them.
November 27th, 2013 at 9:01 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 9:15 PM ^
Floyd committed on 1/31/08, a month after Carr's last game and long after his announced retirement. Countess committed on 12/17/10, well before Rich Rodriguez was fired and back when people thought that if we replaced him we'd probably find a guy with a winning record.
Even if other guys played a role (they obviously did, that is the nature of football when you fire a guy after 3 years), acting like the top 4 rushers, the 4 guys who completed passes, 6 of the 8 guys to catch more than five passes besides Junior Hemingway and Koger, three starters on the offensive line, every starter in the secondary, two starters at LB, and the guy who was 2nd on the team in sacks and TFL (not to mention Frank Clark, who was also not a Lloyd Carr recruit) had nothing to do with the team being good is fucking disgraceful and a shameless move to save face made by an incompetent boob.
November 27th, 2013 at 9:54 PM ^
November 27th, 2013 at 10:04 PM ^
November 28th, 2013 at 5:17 PM ^
Countess committed to Rodriguez.
November 27th, 2013 at 10:09 PM ^
I never said RR was solely responsible. Our AD is the guy making those kinds of statements to explain away why none of Hoke's awesome recruits can be expected to be as good as Taylor Lewan or Patrick Omameh were at the same point in their respective careers. I'm simply pointing out just how big a role the players he recruited played (all the rushing stats, all the passing stats, majority of o-line starters, more than half the defensive starters, etc.).
You're right in your final paragraph. Dave Brandon is ridiculous.