Don't forget the Nebraska game where in the second half Borges trotted out the most ill-prepared back up QB that I can ever recall in 35 years of following this team.
Don't forget the Nebraska game where in the second half Borges trotted out the most ill-prepared back up QB that I can ever recall in 35 years of following this team.
The knell of death has sounded.
Recruiting New Jersey was cited in the statement. I'm guessing that (Peppers) was the real reason this statement was delivered. Here's to hoping Hoke and Mattison stay and Borges is gone.
Was this sent to Jabrill first? I applaud Brandon for being proactive in this. Don't let anyone twist in the wind. Except Al, sorry Al.
Wow. Great read. Whoever writes these things for Brandon does a good job but I think it could have been put more briefly: "Don't worry fans, Borges is gone, gone, gone!"
Which includes Brady Hoke and Greg Mattison."
I thought about this when wondering if DB would issue a statement. Obviously, you want to stress to Peppers in particular that his coaches will still be around, but if Borges is indeed gone how to you approach that... I see the AD couldn't come up with a non-obvious way to phase it either. I do feel bad for Borges, but it may be best at this point to cut bait.
Peppers can cancel his other visits now, right?
That will be interesting to see. I don't see him backing down from his visits at this point, but in reality if that was the real reason he was taking them he should be willing to cancel them. If he still takes the visits it may ramp up the pressure between UM and Peppers, which may not be a good thing. Obviously if he doesn't take the visits that would be great.
"Brady inherited a team during his first season that had many juniors and seniors who played key roles in previous years. The senior class was recruited by Coach Carr and had some terrific talent that had simply been underperforming."
Something is conspicuous by its absence there. Certainly understandable if you're trying to keep a brand internally consistent ...
That was a cheap swipe at RR, who I consider a better man than Brandon could ever hope to be. The 2011 11-2 season was thanks to Denard Robinson, who was recruited by and developed by RR, not LC.
and kicking games were finally competent.
Secondly, none of us truly know anything about the persons involved. All I know is that RichRod has managed to piss off quite a few people at WVU and Michigan. That surely isn't on accident.
RichRod was treated poorly here, but I don't think he is the saint you think he is.
I think Denard Robinson was more of a factor than the kicking game. What about Kovacs? The list is endless. These are all Michigan Men that thrived thanks to Rich Rodriguez.
Leaving RichRod out of the discussion when discussing the sugar bowl roster and who recruited them is definitely a cheap shot. The douchery of Brandon (or whomever wrote this for him) continues.
Thrived? Hahahahaha. If you think how the team performed uner RR was thriving, you dont understand the meaning of that word.
" who I consider a better man than Brandon could ever hope to be "
These comments are so stupid.
You consider Rich Rod a better man?!
Wait...this the same Rich Rod that berated Brendan Gibbons in front of the entire team and blamed losses on him in front of the entire team?
The same Rich Rod that openly made fun of Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet?
The same Rich Rod that employed a man by the last name of Gibson who broke guys confidence day in and day out while using tobacco products (on the job)?
I hope you know of some murder that Brandon has committed because your comment is 100% baseless.
This is your indictment of Gibson?
His example for patience is that Nick Saban went 10-3 in year four (after going a combined 26-2 in years two and three, then winning consecutive national titles in years five and six). How about where Jim Harbaugh was in year 4? Is Brady Hoke expected to do that next year?
Brady Hoke was awesome in year one, but now we need to be patient and wait for depth (which was apparently so bad going into his first season that his predecessor needed to get fired before he could do further damage, even if it meant fucking up that recruiting class). Denard, Lewan, Omameh, Schofield, Fitz, Roundtree, Gallon, Roh, Morgan, Ryan, Floyd, Countess, Gordon, and Kovacs had nothing to do with that team being any good (and guys like Avery who had the game clinching INT against OSU, or Vincent Smith who had a huge late TD against ND, or Brandin Hawthorne who had a huge INT against Northwestern). It was all the work of Lloyd Carr's handful of seniors in the starting lineup. The 2011 team had three freshmen starting on defense, but now some youth is an insurmountable killer. Hokes young linemen aren't as good as the young defenders RichRod recruited, so it is RichRod's fault. And that recruiting class Brandon said wasn't as important as finding the right coach is now used as an excuse to back the coach when results are shitty. Fucking genius.
Dave Brandon is a buffoon who fired the wrong guy. This load of crap just exposed his bullshit bias in favor of the "Michigan Man" who is driving the plane into the mountain.
At least now he isn't killing recruiting by needing to "wait until the end of the season and make a full evaluation of the program" but otherwise Dave Brandon can get bent.
I don't think he was saying that it was only the Carr recruits, just that they played a very big role on that team (which they did). No one senior class since that one has been as impactful. Sure, the guys you listed played a big role as well (though it's hard to give RR credit for Kovancs since he didn't recruit him and actually cut him once) but we were a team with a lot of senior leadership of Carr recruits, and that hasn't been the case in 2012 or 2013.
The 2011 team had Molk, Martin, Koger, Van Bergen, Schilling, Demens, Hemingway and Woolfolk. Those were all Carr recruits and were the leaders of the 2011 team. Not to mention we actually had TE depth with Martell Webb and Brandon Moore. RR had some hits over his recruiting classes, no doubt about it. But because his hits were fewer and farther between than we're accustomed to, the last couple years have been more difficult.
From 2+ recruiting classes and one that Dave Brandon sabotaged by hanging him out to dry:
QB: Denard Robinson (conference player of the year as a sophomore, Michigan record holder in zillions of categories), Devin Gardner (super talented victim of the Borges effect)
RB: Fitz (1,000 yard season before career killed by the Borges effect), Vincent Smith (1,700+ yards rushing/receiving and 17 TDs), Mike Shaw (1,100+ total yards and 15 TDs)
WR: Roundtree (led B1G in receptions as a sophomore, game winning catches against ND and Northwestern), Gallon (2nd leading receiver in the B1G as a senior)
OL: Lewan (1st team All-American), Omameh (1st team All-B1G coaches, on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers active roster in the NFL), BWC (moved back to D by Hoke, drafted to play OL in the NFL and currently on the Jets active roster), Schofield (quality three year starter who now supposedly sucks because that is required to continue giving this offensive coaching staff a pass)
DL: Roh (4 year starter, All-B1G 2nd team coaches), QWash (two year starter at DT), Black (4 year contributor, senior starter at DT), Beyer (starting as a junior with 2 sacks, 4 TFL and an INT return for a touchdown), note that Roh and Black had their careers shortened by not being able to take a redshirt due to actual lack of depth and would have more impressive total careers otherwise
LB: Jake Ryan (beast, 4 year starter), Desmond Morgan (will be a 4 year starter, thanks for the win against UCONN), Cam Gordon (Freshman All-American, 4 sacks and 7.5 TFL this year, to go along with 3 INT as a freshman).
DB: Floyd (solid starter as upperclassman), Countess (likely 4 year starter, leads B1G with 5 INT), Kovacs (fine don't give Rodriguez credit for him), Thomas Gordon (3 year starter), Furman is probably 50/50 to start next year.
That looks like a pretty solid group. Imagine if they'd had a coach who didn't line up in the I-form and run ISO against Iowa? I don't see a bunch of guys losing their jobs to the supposedly super talented Hoke recruits either. If we had a bunch of guys who were as good as Denard, Roundtree, Lewan, Omameh, etc. were as underclassmen on this year's offense, we'd be dynamite. Instead our AD has to tell us to be patient because the bad man screwed it up by leaving the cupboard so bare I couldn't come up with that long ass list above.
Great input! RR had a huge impact in our 10-2 season. We have regressed every year since.
RB- you are calling smith and shaw hits? Really?
OL - Schofield started under hoke only and did you really put BWC in this group? That makes your whole list a joke.
DL - Give me 1 DL that got better while under RR
LB - what all American list are you talking about with Cam Gordon? I assume this was before RR moved him to WR? Morgan committed to Hoke.
DB - here your list is Floyd, Gordon, and Furman? Right ok.
Sure if 7 wins is solid.
RB-Smith and Shaw combined for over 1,000 rushing yards in RR's third year (in addition to Denard's 1,700). Green has 219 at 3.1 ypc and no other Hoke back has more than 100 in his third year.
OL-Sorry for thinking guys who don't start as RS freshman still count as players. Or that BWC might have played OL under RR since he moved him to OL when QWash moved to D, Mattison raved about his pro potential as an OL, and he's on an NFL team as an OL.
DL-I'll give you two, Brandon Graham and Mike Martin both got better and were all-conference performers under RR.
LB-Cam Gordon was a 2nd team Freshman All-American as a RS Freshman in 2010 (unless his team bio is a lie) after making 77 tackles, 3.5 TFL and 3 INT (and returning a fumble for a TD), while playing safety and linebacker. This year he is 2nd on the team in both sacks and TFL.
DB-Yeah, those guys and Countess (who is leading the conference in INT and started just a few games after stepping on campus).
I don't know why I wasted this much time responding to a complete moron. Time to walk away, I guess.
The OL is so bad that no one can get any rushing yards. For all we know, Derrick Green is a 1000 yard back. If RR was so good, why did he fail to recruit any OL at the end of his tenure.
inflamed by the Freep Stretchgate before his second season even started.
I was trying to remember whether any OL left the program that RR recruited.
He recruited Jake Fisher who played in 13 games at Oregon as a freshman and has been a starter there since. He did so despite Brandon screwing him and the team over.
Morgan committed to Rodriguez on December 13, 2010. Hoke was hired on January 11, 2011.
Look I agree that RichRod got a raw deal. I was actually kind of in favor of giving him a fourth year also. Unfortunately the environment here became so toxic that I think it honestly worked out better for Michigan and him that he was fired. He is a great offensive coach but the defense was one of the worst in Michigan history by all accounts. Unfortunately we are so dysfunctional as a program we over compensated and now the defensive staff is great but the offensive staff... whoo boy.
It would be nice to run a spread but Alabama and Stanford and (darnit) MSU, among others, have proved a spread offense isn't the only thing that can work in college. It definitely works and people who said "herp de derp it doesn't work in the Big Ten lolwut," well boy were they wrong. OSU is certainly proving that to us the last two seasons as well ad probably this weekend.
I think our program has a chance this upcoming offseason to make amends and get an offensive staff that will do what Gmat and the rest are doing on the defensive side of the ball. Yes both RichRod and Michigan made mistakes but ultimately I think it could make both entities stronger.
May our leaders make good decisions in the off season for all our sakes.
I've been thinking the same thing. RR brought in some good football players who represented the school well. Vincent Smith is one of those guys who busted his butt, got a degree and is now a leader (and best) in his community. DB shouldn't dismiss them.
to mention Carr and not RR. But holy balls is that a massive overreaction.
If I'm pandering to the Michigan fanbase as a whole, I'm mentioning Carr and not Rodriguez as well. And I liked RR (well, for 2.5 seasons at least). I also don't think he's wrong. That 2011 team had a large and strong senior class, both in terms of talent and leadership. It hasn't had as much of that since.
former coaches didn't need to be mentioned at all. There's a phrasing available there that could have made the point and moved on.
Lashed out at shit you weren't saying.
It's still a dick move by Brandon to not mention him but mention Carr. And in keeping with Brandon's petty douchebaggy MO (e.g. never sending RR's staff their Gator Bowl rings).
I'm not saying DB shouldn't have fired Rodriguez, I'm just saying I'd be comfier with his leadership if he acted like a professional and not an ego-mad ass. Even the rest of the statement - mentioning Mattison and the defense by name but not Borges. The passive aggressive stuff is cheap and low. Say what you mean, or suck it up and say you support all of them.
Floyd was a Carr recruit. Countess committed after Hoke was hired. Molk, Huyge, Hemimgway, Martin, Van Bergen, Demens, Woolfolk, Koger. Clark was a Hoke recruit. Like Half the starters on that 2011 team weren't RR recruits.
RR is on his way to his 5th sub .500 conference record in a row. RR definately got a raw deal here, but as of now he doesn't look like the great coach he did prior to 2008.
Floyd committed on 1/31/08, a month after Carr's last game and long after his announced retirement. Countess committed on 12/17/10, well before Rich Rodriguez was fired and back when people thought that if we replaced him we'd probably find a guy with a winning record.
Even if other guys played a role (they obviously did, that is the nature of football when you fire a guy after 3 years), acting like the top 4 rushers, the 4 guys who completed passes, 6 of the 8 guys to catch more than five passes besides Junior Hemingway and Koger, three starters on the offensive line, every starter in the secondary, two starters at LB, and the guy who was 2nd on the team in sacks and TFL (not to mention Frank Clark, who was also not a Lloyd Carr recruit) had nothing to do with the team being good is fucking disgraceful and a shameless move to save face made by an incompetent boob.
Brian has also acknowledged Floyd as a Carr recruit (or at least not an RR recruit). I'm not giving you that one. Countess I was wrong.
The fact remains that a good percentage of the starters in 2011 were not recruited by RR, and to act as if he's solely responsible for 11-2 is ridiculous.
Now on the flipside, it's also ridiculous for Brandon to act as if it was all Carr and Hoke and RR had nothing to do with it as well.
he technically committed before RR was fired, but after he was let go, a pre-sanctions PSU and Joe Paterno went after him hard. As I remember it, he had in-homes with both staffs and Mattison was able to keep him.
Countess committed to Rodriguez.
I never said RR was solely responsible. Our AD is the guy making those kinds of statements to explain away why none of Hoke's awesome recruits can be expected to be as good as Taylor Lewan or Patrick Omameh were at the same point in their respective careers. I'm simply pointing out just how big a role the players he recruited played (all the rushing stats, all the passing stats, majority of o-line starters, more than half the defensive starters, etc.).
You're right in your final paragraph. Dave Brandon is ridiculous.
You may not be saying that here, but you have said it in the past. Let's be honest, this isn't a new line of reasoning for you based on some of your past posts.
I don't think we'd have won a lot of games in 2011 with Russell Bellomy starting at QB, this is true.
Right, so essentially that is what you're arguing, which is again ridiculous. And I wouldn't think Michigan would have won many games with a true freshman starter, no. But to this point what evidence do we have that Gardner is a great QB either? Outside of about 5 good games?
Paul Hackett (to use a coach I don't particularly like/respect) recruited Carson Palmer (and other good players at USC). Without him, Pete Carroll doesn't win the Orange Bowl in his 2nd year. In that limited sense, Hackett is totally responsible for Carroll's early success. In the same way that Roundtree dropping that TD pass against ND or Gibbons making the kick @PSU changes our record (even though tons of causes led up to those points).
I don't think it is particularly controversial to point out a team would have nowhere near as good a record without a bunch of contributors to that team. It is also fair to say that no coach inherits a team with zero players leftover from a prior regime, so parsing out credit/blame is clearly more art than science.
needed an interception by an RR recruit to beat the worst OSU team in the last 30 years.
You really are a miserable bastard. Seriously, you just drone on and on about Hoke's lack of a winning record. It's like you don't understand where BSU and SDSU were when he took over, where he took them, and why he his record is under .500. You've latched on to something and won't let go. It's like you were up for the job, had a better overall record, but didn't get the job and are now obsessed. He has a winning record at Michigan. GET OVER IT DUDE!
Ball State was 16-18 in the three years before Hoke arrived. Then he went 34-38 over six seasons. Like, the exact same record, and only that good because he went 12-1 in his last year, bailed, and the program cratered without Nate Davis the following season.
I'm glad you're impressed with the guy. One good year at Ball State in six, one decent year at SDSU, and a program going down the tubes here at UM doesn't blow my skirt up. Sorry. I hope your hope gives you comfort. Just don't come crying to me when 2011 starts looking like a long time ago.