Also strong support for Mattison. No mention of Borges.
Dave Brandon statement of support for Hoke
I like lamp.
As soon as those Peppers comments came out I called this. Check the history, it's there.
Yes, I want a cookie.
Btw, for those bashing Brandon. Shut up. He can't publically praise a man he fired and replaced while the guy he replaced his struggling. It's common sense and PR 101. Stop attacking the man's character of an omission that is the RIGHT call. If Brandon mentions RR anywhere in this statement, the press would eat it up. It's common fucking sense for anyone who knows anything about athletics administration.
Also, Rich Rod is currently employed. You don't comment on another coach at another school.
Use your heads and stop the blind hatred. Get mad over the ticket prices, not this.
The fact that he didn't comment on one of his OWN coaches...while commenting on another of the same status/level.
That says WAY more than not mentioning Rich Rod.
Borges has 2 games to keep his job. It's plain and simple.
But again, you don't mention Rich Rod. Ever.
...if you praise him, you've undermined your current coach. If you knock him...you're unprofessional and made a jab at a coach at another school who said nothing about you. It's in very poor taste.
Either way, mention Rich Rod and you take the attention off of Hoke and his vote of confidence. That would've been a horrible move.
Coach Carr is retired. He can mention him. Do you think Money Bags Brandon doesn't understand the significance of Denard Robinson? The guy wad a CEO of a major company. He knows money. He knows Denards legs and dreads made a lot of it for him and his department.
He may be an ass...but he's not stupid. He worded this exactly how he wanted. He wanted to mention Mattison and not Borges. Mattison would also be Peppers coordinator so it helps to point out his accomplishments. Peppers isn't the main reason you do anything...but it's icing to mention, hey by the way...our DC kicks ass. He also knew better than to mention a former coach who HE fired. Duh!!!
you have to agree with this if you have any brains in your head.
yeah, it's kind of a sin of omission to exclude RR and Borges in those quotes.
it was also the only logical way to proceed. under no circumstances should DB make a comment about a fired HC.
I think people here are using this as a jumping off point to argue about the amount of blame RR and BH should get for this seasons malaise. to some, RR deserves ZERO credit for anything at all, to some, he deserve ALL the blame.
I always loved RR and personally think it is a bit of a slap in the face to him, but honestly I don't think there is any possible way you can reference him in this instance. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, only less damned if you don't, so he chose that option. I can't stand DB personally, but I completely understand why he said what he did even if if it was complete BS.
Brandon basically said the 2011 team was only good because of a few experienced upperclassmen who were Lloyd Carr recruits (who had previously been "underachieving") and Brady Hoke's arrival, and all our struggles before and since are because of Rich Rodriguez, and we'll only be good (like in the glory days under Lloyd Carr) once that RR stink finally wears off completely.
As for those Carr recruits who had been underachieving:
Former walk-on Will Heininger didn't do much in 2010, probably because he missed the entire season with an injury. Same goes for Troy Woolfolk (though he would also get hurt in 2011 and eventually get benched in favor of Blake Countess). Kevin Koger went from 199 yards in 2010 to 244 yards in 2011 (of course, Martell Webb had graduated so overall production at TE actually fell by 22 yards). David Molk was one of three finalists for the Rimington Award in 2010, then won the award in 2011 (maybe he got a lot better, or maybe the other finalists graduated). Junior Hemingway (who missed a couple games with injury in 2010) went from 59.3 ypg and 4 TD to 53.8 ypg and 4 TD under Hoke's tutelage. No Carr recruit threw a pass or gained a single rushing yard in 2011. Mike Martin (playing on a hobbled ankle in 2010) was 2nd team All-B1G. In 2011 he was again 2nd team All-B1G. Ryan Van Bergen did go from 4 sacks in 2010 to 5.5 in 2011 (I guess that may be worth 4 wins?). Mark Huyge did go from splitting time with Perry Dorrestein to starting full time at RT, so that probably is the difference right there. Thanks, Mark! Though you should really apologize for screwing everything up for us for so long.
Boy am I glad those guys finally stopped shitting the bed so we could be good.
Getting better had nothing to do with Fitz finally being healthy, Schofield adequately replacing Schilling, Heininger coming back, replacing Ezeh/Mouton/Rogers with three freshmen RR recruited who will all be 4 year starters (Morgan/Ryan/Countess), and a bunch of guys who played as underclassmen growing up (Floyd, Gordon, Kovacs, Avery, Carr recruit Kenny Demens, Roundtree, Gallon, Denard, Lewan, Omameh, Roh, Black, Gibbons, etc.).
Brandon is either a liar twisting an argument to support the guy he likes or a complete idiot with no concept of what our football team is doing.
Option 3 being "both".
I agree with everything you said, just to clarify. The last part of my post said everything DB said was complete BS, but that doesnt' change the fact that giving RR any credit (which he absolutely deserves) would have been a good idea in this context. That's all I'm saying. He should have just said they had a great season in '11 and left it at that, but not many people would ever accuse DB of being in touch with the needs of the fanbase.
Sorry no. There is nothing Al Borges can do in the next two games to keep his job. His incompetence has extended into virtually every aspect of his job description, and his offense this year has embarrassed Wolverine nation ten orders of magnitude more than Josh Groban because at least that fiasco wasn't before national audiences.
Al is a good man, a decent man, and a class act, and used to be something before electricity, but when you're the third highest paid offensive coordinator in the country, and your incompetence impacts hundreds of thousands of Michigan fans, not to mention the hopes and dreams of seniors like Lewan and Gardner and Trouissant, niceness doesn't cut it.
"ten orders of magnitude more than Josh Groban because at least that fiasco wasn't before national audiences" was pretty bad, and the crap on the field seen for three seasons leading to that was the absolute worst Michigan football anyone still alive has ever seen from the home team in Michigan Stadium!
surrounding Rich Rod by not mentioning Lloyd Carr. The fact that he praises Carr's recruiting and says nothing about Rich's when many of the key contributors on this team are Rodriquez recruits lays the base of the blame on Rich Rodriguez's shoes. (Granted, yeah the Oline problems are part on Rodrigeuz recruiting, but also part on The Process ...)
This is a very interesting statement for who is, and who is not mentioned. If I were Al Borges, I would be sweating bullets.
appropriate, and correct, to mention Lloyd Carr, and his recruits. Lloyd Carr is a great man, who won the only National Championship for Michigan in the last 60 years. The seniors on that team played well under Brady, and the depth Lloyd left for Rodriguez was far, far more talented and deep than the senior we have now.
You're telling me the 2008 roster looks better than the 2013 roster? You do realize you're full of shit, right?
I think Borges is canned for sure as much as I and everyone else hate Brandon, he's not stupid. He knows what the problem is my only question is do we trust him enough to make a good hire going forward? And who would u hire anyways? My choice has been Lane kiffin from the start. Discuss
Can Cameron would be my choice but don't see it happening.
I think he'd b perfect just not sure he would come unless we through a shitload of money
I'm not sure why anyone thinks Cameron is a legit option. He is employed at the same position at a school on equal ground for a HC he's close friends with. Why would he leave? I highly doubt we could/would pay him more than LSU would be willing to.
Money!! we would have to out pay LSU plain and simple. If we can spend money on letters in the sky why can't we spend more on an OC?
Could Tom Brady just hurry up and win the Super Bowl again so he can retire and come back to the Motherland and be our OC? Forget the money, take Borges' salary and give it to an NFL lne coach of your choosing and blow this MOTHER up! C'mon Tommy!
I didn't even consider him but I like it. Jokes aside has he ever shown interest in coaching?
...but in many ways Brady is already an on-field coach.
However, after his playing days are over I see him being more interested in an announcing gig or parlaying his last name into a brand like Beckham has done.
You all know what the life of a football coach is likely, right. Shitty! I think when Brady retires he will want to watch his wife walk around in a bikini in their 15,000 square foot beach front mansion in California.
If Gisele, ya know, needs some help around the house, I'm happy to oblige.
But his passion for Michigan and name brand recognition would skyrocket offensive recruiting!
I have dreamed of Mike Hart and Tom Brady joining our coaching staff for a long time now. I think Hart is more likely but a girl can dream, right? I don't think Tom will go into broadcasting. I think that's too far away from the real game for him. As someone else said, he's pretty much an on-field coach right now. One of the things I love most about him is how his teammates are always talking about his leadership and teaching. I think he would be a fantastic coach!
Interesting that this list is so dominated by defensive coordinators. I wonder why that is.
Not sure but it seems more often than not most HCs are known for being more involved on the offensive side, so they're probably not as worried about getting a big-name OC.
Yea, that and not sure how close him and Les are but I think it would be hard for him to bale after just one year in Baton Rouge.
He seems like the best combination of quality and plausibility but the only problem is that he is in his first of a 3 year contract worth over $3 million. Would Michigan shell out that kind of buyout for an assistant? I would like to think so but no.
And I think they will. Hoke says it's not good enough if we're not winning B1G titles. He has to put his money where his mouth is, because the offense isn't near good enough. Brandon has to do the same. We can't watch our rival down south go 23-0 (let alone Sparty) and not react.
Cam burnt some bridges during his previous stint here. Moeller liked / likes (I suspect) him, but that opinion was / is (I suspect) not shared among the insiders.
For different reasons, Les and Cam would be wise to spend the rest of their careers well south of the Mason-Dixon line.
In the case of Les, he has grown accustomed to a culture of cheating (at Okie State and now at LSU). (I realize there are degrees of cheating. I just think it's worse in the SEC.)
Cam is probably a good citizen, but his world view fits the Deep South better than it does the Upper Midwest. Think Bill McCartney (outside football, that is).
After the whole Pete Schmidt thing.
Bad karma for Cam.
I would love Lane Kiffin but I doubt he wants to take that big of a step back. I don't think he's a great HC but could be a very good OC. That said, I'm sure some school below M and SC level will give him a HC gig.
I don't care about how good of a HC he is. I was at the rose bowl in 07 and his offense tore out defense to shreds. He can run a prostyle offense that works. He coached one of the all time greatest offenses at USC plus he's a top notch recruiter
I agree with you. But I think that's enough to get him a mid-level BCS conference HC job. He'll take a RR style drop to a lower level program. I'm sure he'd rather be the HC at say Syracuse or UConn before being our OC. Money would be better there too, most likely.
I don't think anyone is would hire him as a HC anymore. He has never shown that he can win as a HC. I think he gets hired as an OC again at some big program or mayb NFL
Wasnt he the co- offensive coordinator? the other co oc is Washington head coach. I think he was the genius
Why is our AD making an OC hire? That should the the HC's decision, and his decision alone. This is Jerry Jones-level of micromanagement...
The worst part is that even with that level of micromanagement, we will end up with Debord calling 898908908 off-tackle stretch plays per game next year.
Is it gonna b Hokes decision alone I doubt it
I don't think DB is making the hire, but sometimes your boss helps you make your personnel decisions since it's on him as well.
Please point out the quote from Brandon where he says he will be making that decision.
I assume you're just engaging in snark.
If you're actually seriously proposing that the Brady Hoke hires Lane Kiffin? With all due respect, you've lost your mind.
Completely agree. Show me one team where Kiffin has coached up average players. All I've ever seen from him is ride the shoulders of all-NFL caliber players at USC for a few years. Honestly, we need the offensive equivalent of a Narduzzi, not a douche bag talent rider like Kiffin.
How did we even get to this point?
By keeping Borges for another season after it was clear last year he isn't the guy. The Ohio State game last year was a travesty. He was allowed to continue on this year and only got worse.
Don't forget the Nebraska game where in the second half Borges trotted out the most ill-prepared back up QB that I can ever recall in 35 years of following this team.
The knell of death has sounded.
Recruiting New Jersey was cited in the statement. I'm guessing that (Peppers) was the real reason this statement was delivered. Here's to hoping Hoke and Mattison stay and Borges is gone.
Was this sent to Jabrill first? I applaud Brandon for being proactive in this. Don't let anyone twist in the wind. Except Al, sorry Al.
Wow. Great read. Whoever writes these things for Brandon does a good job but I think it could have been put more briefly: "Don't worry fans, Borges is gone, gone, gone!"
Which includes Brady Hoke and Greg Mattison."
I thought about this when wondering if DB would issue a statement. Obviously, you want to stress to Peppers in particular that his coaches will still be around, but if Borges is indeed gone how to you approach that... I see the AD couldn't come up with a non-obvious way to phase it either. I do feel bad for Borges, but it may be best at this point to cut bait.
Peppers can cancel his other visits now, right?
That will be interesting to see. I don't see him backing down from his visits at this point, but in reality if that was the real reason he was taking them he should be willing to cancel them. If he still takes the visits it may ramp up the pressure between UM and Peppers, which may not be a good thing. Obviously if he doesn't take the visits that would be great.
"Brady inherited a team during his first season that had many juniors and seniors who played key roles in previous years. The senior class was recruited by Coach Carr and had some terrific talent that had simply been underperforming."
Something is conspicuous by its absence there. Certainly understandable if you're trying to keep a brand internally consistent ...
That was a cheap swipe at RR, who I consider a better man than Brandon could ever hope to be. The 2011 11-2 season was thanks to Denard Robinson, who was recruited by and developed by RR, not LC.
and kicking games were finally competent.
Secondly, none of us truly know anything about the persons involved. All I know is that RichRod has managed to piss off quite a few people at WVU and Michigan. That surely isn't on accident.
RichRod was treated poorly here, but I don't think he is the saint you think he is.
I think Denard Robinson was more of a factor than the kicking game. What about Kovacs? The list is endless. These are all Michigan Men that thrived thanks to Rich Rodriguez.
Leaving RichRod out of the discussion when discussing the sugar bowl roster and who recruited them is definitely a cheap shot. The douchery of Brandon (or whomever wrote this for him) continues.
Thrived? Hahahahaha. If you think how the team performed uner RR was thriving, you dont understand the meaning of that word.
You consider Rich Rod a better man?!
Wait...this the same Rich Rod that berated Brendan Gibbons in front of the entire team and blamed losses on him in front of the entire team?
The same Rich Rod that openly made fun of Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet?
The same Rich Rod that employed a man by the last name of Gibson who broke guys confidence day in and day out while using tobacco products (on the job)?
I hope you know of some murder that Brandon has committed because your comment is 100% baseless.
This is your indictment of Gibson?
His example for patience is that Nick Saban went 10-3 in year four (after going a combined 26-2 in years two and three, then winning consecutive national titles in years five and six). How about where Jim Harbaugh was in year 4? Is Brady Hoke expected to do that next year?
Brady Hoke was awesome in year one, but now we need to be patient and wait for depth (which was apparently so bad going into his first season that his predecessor needed to get fired before he could do further damage, even if it meant fucking up that recruiting class). Denard, Lewan, Omameh, Schofield, Fitz, Roundtree, Gallon, Roh, Morgan, Ryan, Floyd, Countess, Gordon, and Kovacs had nothing to do with that team being any good (and guys like Avery who had the game clinching INT against OSU, or Vincent Smith who had a huge late TD against ND, or Brandin Hawthorne who had a huge INT against Northwestern). It was all the work of Lloyd Carr's handful of seniors in the starting lineup. The 2011 team had three freshmen starting on defense, but now some youth is an insurmountable killer. Hokes young linemen aren't as good as the young defenders RichRod recruited, so it is RichRod's fault. And that recruiting class Brandon said wasn't as important as finding the right coach is now used as an excuse to back the coach when results are shitty. Fucking genius.
Dave Brandon is a buffoon who fired the wrong guy. This load of crap just exposed his bullshit bias in favor of the "Michigan Man" who is driving the plane into the mountain.
At least now he isn't killing recruiting by needing to "wait until the end of the season and make a full evaluation of the program" but otherwise Dave Brandon can get bent.
I don't think he was saying that it was only the Carr recruits, just that they played a very big role on that team (which they did). No one senior class since that one has been as impactful. Sure, the guys you listed played a big role as well (though it's hard to give RR credit for Kovancs since he didn't recruit him and actually cut him once) but we were a team with a lot of senior leadership of Carr recruits, and that hasn't been the case in 2012 or 2013.
The 2011 team had Molk, Martin, Koger, Van Bergen, Schilling, Demens, Hemingway and Woolfolk. Those were all Carr recruits and were the leaders of the 2011 team. Not to mention we actually had TE depth with Martell Webb and Brandon Moore. RR had some hits over his recruiting classes, no doubt about it. But because his hits were fewer and farther between than we're accustomed to, the last couple years have been more difficult.
From 2+ recruiting classes and one that Dave Brandon sabotaged by hanging him out to dry:
QB: Denard Robinson (conference player of the year as a sophomore, Michigan record holder in zillions of categories), Devin Gardner (super talented victim of the Borges effect)
RB: Fitz (1,000 yard season before career killed by the Borges effect), Vincent Smith (1,700+ yards rushing/receiving and 17 TDs), Mike Shaw (1,100+ total yards and 15 TDs)
WR: Roundtree (led B1G in receptions as a sophomore, game winning catches against ND and Northwestern), Gallon (2nd leading receiver in the B1G as a senior)
OL: Lewan (1st team All-American), Omameh (1st team All-B1G coaches, on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers active roster in the NFL), BWC (moved back to D by Hoke, drafted to play OL in the NFL and currently on the Jets active roster), Schofield (quality three year starter who now supposedly sucks because that is required to continue giving this offensive coaching staff a pass)
DL: Roh (4 year starter, All-B1G 2nd team coaches), QWash (two year starter at DT), Black (4 year contributor, senior starter at DT), Beyer (starting as a junior with 2 sacks, 4 TFL and an INT return for a touchdown), note that Roh and Black had their careers shortened by not being able to take a redshirt due to actual lack of depth and would have more impressive total careers otherwise
LB: Jake Ryan (beast, 4 year starter), Desmond Morgan (will be a 4 year starter, thanks for the win against UCONN), Cam Gordon (Freshman All-American, 4 sacks and 7.5 TFL this year, to go along with 3 INT as a freshman).
DB: Floyd (solid starter as upperclassman), Countess (likely 4 year starter, leads B1G with 5 INT), Kovacs (fine don't give Rodriguez credit for him), Thomas Gordon (3 year starter), Furman is probably 50/50 to start next year.
That looks like a pretty solid group. Imagine if they'd had a coach who didn't line up in the I-form and run ISO against Iowa? I don't see a bunch of guys losing their jobs to the supposedly super talented Hoke recruits either. If we had a bunch of guys who were as good as Denard, Roundtree, Lewan, Omameh, etc. were as underclassmen on this year's offense, we'd be dynamite. Instead our AD has to tell us to be patient because the bad man screwed it up by leaving the cupboard so bare I couldn't come up with that long ass list above.
Great input! RR had a huge impact in our 10-2 season. We have regressed every year since.
RB- you are calling smith and shaw hits? Really?
OL - Schofield started under hoke only and did you really put BWC in this group? That makes your whole list a joke.
DL - Give me 1 DL that got better while under RR
LB - what all American list are you talking about with Cam Gordon? I assume this was before RR moved him to WR? Morgan committed to Hoke.
DB - here your list is Floyd, Gordon, and Furman? Right ok.
Sure if 7 wins is solid.
RB-Smith and Shaw combined for over 1,000 rushing yards in RR's third year (in addition to Denard's 1,700). Green has 219 at 3.1 ypc and no other Hoke back has more than 100 in his third year.
OL-Sorry for thinking guys who don't start as RS freshman still count as players. Or that BWC might have played OL under RR since he moved him to OL when QWash moved to D, Mattison raved about his pro potential as an OL, and he's on an NFL team as an OL.
DL-I'll give you two, Brandon Graham and Mike Martin both got better and were all-conference performers under RR.
LB-Cam Gordon was a 2nd team Freshman All-American as a RS Freshman in 2010 (unless his team bio is a lie) after making 77 tackles, 3.5 TFL and 3 INT (and returning a fumble for a TD), while playing safety and linebacker. This year he is 2nd on the team in both sacks and TFL.
DB-Yeah, those guys and Countess (who is leading the conference in INT and started just a few games after stepping on campus).
I don't know why I wasted this much time responding to a complete moron. Time to walk away, I guess.
The OL is so bad that no one can get any rushing yards. For all we know, Derrick Green is a 1000 yard back. If RR was so good, why did he fail to recruit any OL at the end of his tenure.
inflamed by the Freep Stretchgate before his second season even started.
I was trying to remember whether any OL left the program that RR recruited.
He recruited Jake Fisher who played in 13 games at Oregon as a freshman and has been a starter there since. He did so despite Brandon screwing him and the team over.
Morgan committed to Rodriguez on December 13, 2010. Hoke was hired on January 11, 2011.
Look I agree that RichRod got a raw deal. I was actually kind of in favor of giving him a fourth year also. Unfortunately the environment here became so toxic that I think it honestly worked out better for Michigan and him that he was fired. He is a great offensive coach but the defense was one of the worst in Michigan history by all accounts. Unfortunately we are so dysfunctional as a program we over compensated and now the defensive staff is great but the offensive staff... whoo boy.
It would be nice to run a spread but Alabama and Stanford and (darnit) MSU, among others, have proved a spread offense isn't the only thing that can work in college. It definitely works and people who said "herp de derp it doesn't work in the Big Ten lolwut," well boy were they wrong. OSU is certainly proving that to us the last two seasons as well ad probably this weekend.
I think our program has a chance this upcoming offseason to make amends and get an offensive staff that will do what Gmat and the rest are doing on the defensive side of the ball. Yes both RichRod and Michigan made mistakes but ultimately I think it could make both entities stronger.
May our leaders make good decisions in the off season for all our sakes.
I've been thinking the same thing. RR brought in some good football players who represented the school well. Vincent Smith is one of those guys who busted his butt, got a degree and is now a leader (and best) in his community. DB shouldn't dismiss them.
to mention Carr and not RR. But holy balls is that a massive overreaction.
If I'm pandering to the Michigan fanbase as a whole, I'm mentioning Carr and not Rodriguez as well. And I liked RR (well, for 2.5 seasons at least). I also don't think he's wrong. That 2011 team had a large and strong senior class, both in terms of talent and leadership. It hasn't had as much of that since.
former coaches didn't need to be mentioned at all. There's a phrasing available there that could have made the point and moved on.
Lashed out at shit you weren't saying.
It's still a dick move by Brandon to not mention him but mention Carr. And in keeping with Brandon's petty douchebaggy MO (e.g. never sending RR's staff their Gator Bowl rings).
I'm not saying DB shouldn't have fired Rodriguez, I'm just saying I'd be comfier with his leadership if he acted like a professional and not an ego-mad ass. Even the rest of the statement - mentioning Mattison and the defense by name but not Borges. The passive aggressive stuff is cheap and low. Say what you mean, or suck it up and say you support all of them.
Floyd was a Carr recruit. Countess committed after Hoke was hired. Molk, Huyge, Hemimgway, Martin, Van Bergen, Demens, Woolfolk, Koger. Clark was a Hoke recruit. Like Half the starters on that 2011 team weren't RR recruits.
RR is on his way to his 5th sub .500 conference record in a row. RR definately got a raw deal here, but as of now he doesn't look like the great coach he did prior to 2008.
Floyd committed on 1/31/08, a month after Carr's last game and long after his announced retirement. Countess committed on 12/17/10, well before Rich Rodriguez was fired and back when people thought that if we replaced him we'd probably find a guy with a winning record.
Even if other guys played a role (they obviously did, that is the nature of football when you fire a guy after 3 years), acting like the top 4 rushers, the 4 guys who completed passes, 6 of the 8 guys to catch more than five passes besides Junior Hemingway and Koger, three starters on the offensive line, every starter in the secondary, two starters at LB, and the guy who was 2nd on the team in sacks and TFL (not to mention Frank Clark, who was also not a Lloyd Carr recruit) had nothing to do with the team being good is fucking disgraceful and a shameless move to save face made by an incompetent boob.
Brian has also acknowledged Floyd as a Carr recruit (or at least not an RR recruit). I'm not giving you that one. Countess I was wrong.
The fact remains that a good percentage of the starters in 2011 were not recruited by RR, and to act as if he's solely responsible for 11-2 is ridiculous.
Now on the flipside, it's also ridiculous for Brandon to act as if it was all Carr and Hoke and RR had nothing to do with it as well.
he technically committed before RR was fired, but after he was let go, a pre-sanctions PSU and Joe Paterno went after him hard. As I remember it, he had in-homes with both staffs and Mattison was able to keep him.
Countess committed to Rodriguez.
I never said RR was solely responsible. Our AD is the guy making those kinds of statements to explain away why none of Hoke's awesome recruits can be expected to be as good as Taylor Lewan or Patrick Omameh were at the same point in their respective careers. I'm simply pointing out just how big a role the players he recruited played (all the rushing stats, all the passing stats, majority of o-line starters, more than half the defensive starters, etc.).
You're right in your final paragraph. Dave Brandon is ridiculous.
You may not be saying that here, but you have said it in the past. Let's be honest, this isn't a new line of reasoning for you based on some of your past posts.
I don't think we'd have won a lot of games in 2011 with Russell Bellomy starting at QB, this is true.
Right, so essentially that is what you're arguing, which is again ridiculous. And I wouldn't think Michigan would have won many games with a true freshman starter, no. But to this point what evidence do we have that Gardner is a great QB either? Outside of about 5 good games?
Paul Hackett (to use a coach I don't particularly like/respect) recruited Carson Palmer (and other good players at USC). Without him, Pete Carroll doesn't win the Orange Bowl in his 2nd year. In that limited sense, Hackett is totally responsible for Carroll's early success. In the same way that Roundtree dropping that TD pass against ND or Gibbons making the kick @PSU changes our record (even though tons of causes led up to those points).
I don't think it is particularly controversial to point out a team would have nowhere near as good a record without a bunch of contributors to that team. It is also fair to say that no coach inherits a team with zero players leftover from a prior regime, so parsing out credit/blame is clearly more art than science.
needed an interception by an RR recruit to beat the worst OSU team in the last 30 years.
You really are a miserable bastard. Seriously, you just drone on and on about Hoke's lack of a winning record. It's like you don't understand where BSU and SDSU were when he took over, where he took them, and why he his record is under .500. You've latched on to something and won't let go. It's like you were up for the job, had a better overall record, but didn't get the job and are now obsessed. He has a winning record at Michigan. GET OVER IT DUDE!
Ball State was 16-18 in the three years before Hoke arrived. Then he went 34-38 over six seasons. Like, the exact same record, and only that good because he went 12-1 in his last year, bailed, and the program cratered without Nate Davis the following season.
I'm glad you're impressed with the guy. One good year at Ball State in six, one decent year at SDSU, and a program going down the tubes here at UM doesn't blow my skirt up. Sorry. I hope your hope gives you comfort. Just don't come crying to me when 2011 starts looking like a long time ago.
Please. Stop with the facts. They only get in the way of my selfish emotional attachment to things.
But RR's record here blew your knickers off?
Rich Rodriguez had three straight top-10 finishes at WVU with a team made entirely of his guys. He walked into a shitstorm that (however you want to cast all the blame to go around) left us with a broken program by the time he coached his first game. We were losing only Schilling and Mouton as longtime/quality contributors from a 7-6 team in 2010, and getting some guys back from injury. I thought we'd look a lot better no matter who coached the team in 2011 (I made a lot of Charlie Weis comparisons and feared we'd grow immediately attached to whoever walked through the door). People said I was nuts, and that the new guy had a big rebuilding job, especially on defense. We looked a lot better. People said it will only get better because this new staff is awesome and that's why we're so good. They'll also bring in way better guys. It is getting worse and people are now acting like even the great Brady Hoke can't overcome the terrible task of having to find two semi-competent offensive linemen by year three (which guys like Rodriguez, Harbaugh, etc. managed to do just fine).
Meanwhile, the guy who was the big problem has the same record (at Arizona) that we do the last two years. He's won twice as many games there as he did in two years here (So maybe the situation wasn't exactly ideal?).
Unlike his predecessor, Brady Hoke is going to get year four. Maybe even year five. As he should. I just don't think we'll be 11-2 again. And then the boogeyman won't be around any more. We'll see who is right. Maybe we're both right (Hoke will succeed immensely here while RR does the same in Tucson). But I'm not wrong in the first instance simply because Dave Brandon thought so three years ago. Nor is he right because of 2011 (SEE Weis, Coker, etc.).
Dude I agree that RR wasn't given a chance, but RR gave up like 600 yards per game and we went from 110th in the nation in defense to 10th in a year when Mattison got here.
Stanford finished next to last in their conference in defense in Harbaugh's third year there. When I pointed it out three years ago, people acted like it was just destiny that proved Harbaugh's awesomeness and claimed Stanford's rebuild couldn't be compared to Michigan's (when we now know that Arizona after a 4-8 season was in far better shape than the team Rich Rod actually got to coach out of the gate here). Harbaugh brought in a new coordinator, the good young players he brought in grew up, and the next year they were 3rd in the conference and 1st in scoring D, on their way to a 12-1 season.
The roster objectively got worse on D each year Rodriguez was here because of recruiting gaps before he arrived. The roster was going to objectively get better in 2011 when Mouton was the only big/quality contributor graduating.
People said he wasn't fixing the defense, and then we got to see a defense with Ryan, Morgan, Countess, Roh (as an upperclassman), etc. Lo and behold we've been good for three straight years on that side of the ball. Rodriguez deserved a shot with non-freshmen in the secondary. Just like Hoke deserves a shot with non-freshmen on the interior o-line (though as I've mentioned, Dave Brandon's role in that situation seems to be one he'd like to gloss over). The only difference is, RR didn't have an All-American DB around in 2010 to lighten the load.
And speaking of Harbaugh, do you think Brandon is going to hold Hoke to that standard of excellence in year 4? Or are we going to pretend that rebuilding from the horrors of Rich Rodriguez is way more difficult than inheriting a winless team in the Pac-12?
You weren't pointing out Harbaugh's lack of success to illustrate how bad in year three could mean in year four you break through. You were doing it to discredit his accomplishments. Even though he took over a program that went 1-11. To the extent that you spent half of their bowl game mocking them, until they started kicking Virginia Tech's ass. Don't act like you had any great understanding or appreciation of what he accomplished at the time. Using his trajectory to justify year four for Rich when you were using its total lack of impressiveness (to you) at the time to justify why he wasn't a good replacement for Rich is just silly.
For things like bitching about a kickoff out of bounds being a sign of coaching incompetence on the part of Rich Rodriguez but a missed extra point by Harbaugh's team meaning nothing because they happened to be winning. And I regularly pointed out that our trajectory looked exactly like Stanford's under Harbaugh (complete with terrible defense in year 3) and was told that none of that mattered because Michigan >>>> Stanford and couldn't possibly be in a situation that is twice as bad as Arizona after a 4-8 season.
Rich Rodriguez hadn't been fired during that game. I was arguing we shouldn't fire him simply because some knuckleheads thought we would get Harbaugh, guaranteed. Not claiming that if we did so, someone like Brady Hoke would be a better option to hire than Jim Harbaugh.
I think it's reasonably high, FWIW - I certainly hope so. I liked RR a lot and defended him until the Gator Bowl, but he was not a good fit at Michigan - or Michigan was not a good fit with him, if you like. The reasons people seemed to dislike him forever changed my opinion of Michigan football culture for the worse, but we're stuck with it. Hoke is accepted at U of M, and RR just wasn't, and that's not all DB's doing by a longshot.
what he did at WVU is somewhat irrelevant to what he did here, especially considering his best seasons all came after Miami, VaTech etc. had left the conference.
But I like RR, and I'm not trying to bash him though it may seem that way. My problem with a certain strain of your posts is that you seem to feel the need to basg Hoke when you talk up RR. It seems like it should be possible to like RR without running down the accomplishments of the current head coach, no?
RR's record with his own guys is to me incredibly relevant. It gave every reason for erring on the side of giving him one year to see what he was actually building. The same year Brandon is going to give Hoke without questions asked. His best seasons also ended with BCS bowl wins over big conference champions. Something we haven't done in a long time (1999).
I was skeptical of the Hoke hire at first, but have been supportive up until this year. Now I'm seeing hyped recruiting that can't produce the same kinds of players Rodriguez brought in on the o-line (in year 3, comparing apples to apples) and all our eggs in the Shane Morris and Derrick Green baskets (the only 4+ star recruits at QB and RB in 3+ classes). Combine that with no prior track record of elite success (IMO), and I just don't see this working out. And for me working out would be something better than the Carr years.
I don't think he should get fired. If he wants to keep Borges I'm fine with that. I'm just not going to invest as much emotionally as I do normally. Hopefully that isn't undermining the program like nasty internet rumors. If anything, I'm bashing Brandon for having blind faith in one guy and nothing but vitriol for a guy who was in an almost identical position in year 3 (one side of the ball a disaster with youth as a big factor). Especially when one had a track record of high level success elsewhere and the other doesn't. And one is depending way more on the prior guys players while the AD acts like they're the problem (QB, RB, leading WR, 2 OL, 7 defensive starters against Iowa).
So again, throw out the fact that doesn't suit your narrative. 12-1 and MAC Coach of the Year is pretty good.
Michigan is not going down the tubes. Michigan is rebuilding from the neglect and mismanagement of the previous two regimes. Rebuilding takes time, especially when the biggest issue is a near complete lack of depth on the OL.
Don't worry I won't cry to you. The real question is whether your man enough to admit you're wrong when Hoke's teams turn the corner and start kicking ass.
You're just bitter, and I'm sure you're a joy to be around. Every word you write in here is hateful and displays your piss poor attitude. You must be a fucking all world employee.
I didn't throw out that fact. I simply noted that even with that one fact in his favor, his record was the same as Bill Lynch's. And in year three his record is worse than Jerry Kill's. At Minnesota. Following Tim Brewster. But I guess that wasn't the rebuilding job walking into a Sugar Bowl winning team was for the Hokester.
If you want to bet a dollar that we go 11-2 or better next year, I'll gladly take your action. Outside of that, don't bother responding to any of my posts. I know what you think. You don't back it up with anything but optimism and enthusiasm. While that is adorable, it doesn't interest me. I will just assume you don't agree with me and you can save yourself the fingertip blisters.
And appreciate your passionate writing. I don't think you writing is miserable but I see both sides, yet enjoy the cut of you jib. Good work.
once the request to put money on the line was made, crickets in response.
I'll bet dollar to donuts. donuts are the only true form of currrency to me.
Is gone man! Let it go BRO!
Exactly. He is gone and we will never know how he would've done with a few more years. All we can do is hope we get a innovative OC next year and support this staff and these players they are bringing in. We haven't had recruiting classes like this in a while. Under RR we were lucky to have a top 25 class and now we are around the top ten. I can't wait to see these young guys gain some experience and represent the Hoke era to the fullest.
Look at the timeline:
Martin formally withdraws commitment and reopens his recruiting, ND and MSU, among others pursue him heavily
Rodriguez is hired begins to recruit Martin
Martin commits to Michigan and Rodriguez.
Calling Brandon a "baffoon" for firing a guy who assembled two of the worst teams in Michigan history causes me to question your sanity. In no way can you defend Rodriguez' performance here. He was God awful. His defenses and kicking games were atrocious and his offense was consistently shut down by MSU and OSU.
Criticize Borges all you want. But defending RichRod cannot be done. He did a poor job here.
Hoke's WORST record is the best record RR achieved here.
You oddly list all of RR's leftovers who contribured, but say nothing of those recruited by Carr. Martin, Minor, Hemingway, Koger, Matthews, Taylor,Warren, Ryan Van Bergan, Woolfolk, Morgan Trent, Stephen Schilling, Mouton, Mesko....Carr did NOT leave the cupboard bare.
Everyone gives Rich Rod credit for having an awesome offense. But any decent team completely shut us down. Borges showed us against Indiana that even the worst offense can put up crazy numbers against a horrible defense.
Now shit teams shut us down. That's better how?
RR didn't assemble the two worst teamsin UM history, that was LC. All this damn fighting. If you want to fight and yell, so be it, just fight fair for shit sake. RR assembled an 11-2 team He didn't have the good fortune to coach it, but he assembled it.
If you eliminate that first year and chalk it up to the fiasco it was and re[place it with that 11-2 record things look a little different. Now I'm not saying BH doesn't deserve credit for the 11-2 season as well, he does, just like LC deserves the blame for what was "assembled" when RR got here.
Let's just stop the damn fighting already!
But that miracle turnaround was necessary because of Coach Rod and his staff's defensive coaching. Other than that, you're OK.
for throwing RR under the bus, saying he didn't recruit enough talent. Are you selectively dismissing the fact that RR threw Carr under the bus for not recruiting enough talent? You don't seem to hold any anger at RR for doing the same thing. Why don't you call RR a douchebag?
RR did recruit some great talent, but so did Carr. Maybe if RR hadn't run off an NFL QB, an NFL WR, and an NFL offensive guard, we wouldn't have sucked so bad in 2008.
But holy shit. I just realized this argument travelled here through a wormhole from 2011 and nobody gives a shit about it.
I think Brandon is dumb for firing Rich Rodriguez and is incorrect when he claims he didn't recruit enough talent (especially before DB started telling recruits he wasn't sure who next year's coach would be). I could be wrong. Time will tell. Maybe we'll be back in a BCS bowl next year, or maybe we'll just keep lowering expectations and casting blame. Maybe Arizona won't continue to be as good or better than Michigan. But I think 11-2 is going to be a high water mark for Hoke and Co.
I'm angry at Brandon for actively sabotaging recruiting for an entire season (by not either firing Rodriguez or supporting him, but instead telling recruits he didn't know if the guy would be around) and now using that as an excuse to give even more rope to Coach Hoke, while simultaneously bitching about how bad it would be for people not even associated with the program to feed rumors that a Michigan coach might get fired. How is this hard to understand? Dave Brandon is being a douche to fans for doing exactly what he did as athletic director three years ago (where he had a tad more influence than a few message board posters).
You're last paragraph sums up the whole problem with our fanbase and program. We couldn't handle being bad in 2008 and needed somebody to blame. Unless the new guy fixed it better than before immediately he needed to go. Instead of just seeing what might happen in year 4, we panicked and are currently beginning to suffer the consequences, after a brief period of patting ourselves on the back that Dave Brandon seems to still be stuck in.
you set up the deck in your assumptions and use hindsight to resolve any remainder.
I'd suggest your views could be seen as reflective of what's wrong with the fan base: you can't stop in-fighting, you can't let anything go, you have an arrogant view that your way is the right and only way, though you know about 1/1000th about football as anyone in Schembechler Hall, you're fatalist, and above all you're angry that things aren't the way you want them to be, and until they change it to fit what you want (fuck every other fan and what they want), you'll make the coaches and/or AD a punchline and receptacle for your vitriol.
Other than my whimsical new signature suggesting Dave Brandon be terminated, I haven't demanded any change. I haven't even once said Al Borges should be let go, unlike 90+ percent of posters here. I've said over and over again that Brady Hoke should get five years with the full support of the athletic department and zero interference (something I think Dave Brandon could have done without being a dickhead). I just think we've made two big mistakes and are going to suffer for it. I might be wrong, but the more evidence that comes in the more confident I am in my conclusion. I've been bullish on the future of Michigan football for 5+ years. Seeing the writing on the wall now doesn't make me a fatalist all of a sudden.
I'm resigned to the fact that I don't possess a time machine. If you and others are happy with the course we're one, more power to you. You got what you wanted and we'll see how that goes. I really hope it works out, for all of us.
But I opened up my mind after it was final, because what hell else could I do. Everybody who's ever worked with him or known him loves him to death. And for a dozen other reasons that nobody gives a fuck about (but yes, including an 11-2 BCS win season), I really like him now.
But it's almost beyond the point: why the fuck are we talking about RichRod? It's a means to despise Brandon. Seriously? This shit is so old. You likely despised fans who never shut up and gave RichRod a chance, instead clinging to their first impression reaction to the hire. And then every piece of negative evidence over his tenure was used to support that initial theory - while simultaneously flushing any positive progress. They vented and vented and helped run him out of town, too early in your eyes. You hated these people. Well congratulations, because despite your position that Hoke should be given 5 years (fairly meaningless support since you think he's a bad hire), you are successfully emulating them.
I am not basing my opinion on anything other than the things that are under Hoke's control (on-field impact of his recruits) in comparison with other elite coaches. Because that is the standard I think the program should aspire to. It should have been the standard in RR's fourth year, and it should be the standard for Hoke next year and beyond. If you don't see a difference between having doubts and explaining why versus demanding a coach be fired and then claiming he never would have had any success here (when the team he was building is very successful a year later), I'm sorry. I do. I wish Rich Rodriguez had gotten some fairly meaningless support from people who didn't think he would be successful. I remember a lot more "this is never going to work" than "let's see, but I doubt it".
If you really think we'll be a 2-loss or better team next year, that's great. I don't at this point. At that point, we're talking about what Brady Hoke has built. If it ain't as good as guys like Meyer/Spurrier/Saban/Carroll/Harbaugh/Kelly/Richt/Stoops/Brown etc., then I don't see much cause for enthusiasm. We'll know soon enough, so either way my negativity shouldn't be program crippling in the long term.
My sentiments exactly. Brandon is trying to rewrite history to justify his firing of RR and hiring of Brady Hoke. RR was a truly innovative coach whose spread offense rivals the changes brought to football by Fielding H. Yost and Fritz Crisler. RR was immediately crucified and vilified by LC supporters for no good reason. Prior to joining UofM, Hoke was a 0.500 HC whose track record paled in comparison to RR's. Despite having everyone support him from the get go, he has really accomplished very little. Two good recruiting classes, bringing in Mattison, and a lucky 11-2 season with another coaches players are plusses, but certainly not nearly enough to justify the lofty praise and vote of confidence received from Brandon. 2013 has been an offensive debacle. I still say they fired the wrong guy and hired the wrong person.
26-11 v. 15-22.
Its hard to take you seriously when you say "he has accomplished very little," and that, "they fired the wrong guy and hired the wrong guy," in the face of those records.
Any argument that you could make would have to be based on trajectory. That's all you got, but at least its compelling. But in terms of actual achievement, Brady Hoke has lost half as many games as Rich Rodriguez.
@reader71 - this seems completely disingenuos and cherry picking timeframes. Over the arc of their entire careers, what do their records look like?
I'm going to agree with dude above me. You're absolutely cherry picking here, and providing zero context for the records given. Rosters matter, depth matters, recruiting matters (point Hoke). Rodriguez inherited a shitty roster, that's a fact. He was making progress, that's also a fact. His defenses sucked, also fact, but the context here is that we were playing a shit ton of freshman. Hoke now finds himself in the same situation, but on the other side of the ball, though with only one position group instead of 3-4. Just be honest about it, don't try to distort reality.
I don't understand people sometimes. Why do people feel the need to bend reality to conform to their preconceived ideals? That's an honest question...
I often find myself on the opposite side of the debate as you, TIMMMAAY but I always appreciate the fact that with you, it always feels like a debate and not an arguement. I also enjoy reading purplestuff's view as he is very good at conveying his point without attacking other posters.
There are always two side to a debate and I love having them, but it bothers me to no end when people distort things to fit their side of the debate. Especially with what has been discussed here over the past month, there is plenty of ammunition for boths sides without making things up or distorting the truth. I wish we could all just discuss (debate) things civilly and dispense with all the hostility and fabrication.
All of you applauding Dave Brandon...do you enjoy being lied to like a politician begging for votes?
I understand why this blog was written but the execution is miserable. A short, direct, statement of support would have been fine and served it's purpose. Instead we get Brandon's deceptive comments and weird commentary regarding past coaching standards.
This is a man that is completely insecure because he knows he hired a cheerleader that no other BCS team would ever have. Then, he pays him like he's coveted by the NFL because Brandon made his useless comments about how Michigan needs to pay for the best to get the best.
Do you really think it was in ANY WAY necessary to pay Brady Hoke more than RR?
It's literally only so fans can't point to his salary and say Brandon was being cheap.
Beyond that, he had the nerve to compare this season with NICK SABAN at Alabama in his 4th year. Saban won the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP IN YEAR 3. Are you kidding? And in his "down" year he was 10-3.
Those 3 losses were against a ranked South Carolina team, #10 LSU, and Auburn. With Cam Newton. The eventual NATIONAL CHAMPIONS.
Sounds just like this year with Hoke.
Now that I think about it, we're really not being fair to Hoke. Sure this year has sucked but we did win the National Championship and go undefeated last year just like Nick Saban at Alabama so everyone just quiet down. Nothing to see here.
Brandon acts as if Hoke has the same track record as Nick Saban (or even Harbaugh). Nick Saban had already won a national championship went to Alabama. He was considered one of the best college coaches, hence Bama paying him.
Hoke has no track record of winning championships.
I like Dave Brandon. I don't blame him for trying to maximize profits. I think he loves this University and is great at his job.
That being said, fuck Dave Brandon for the blatant omission of Rich Rodriguez in that blog post. What a chickenshit comment, praising "Carr's" recruits.
I agree with your last paragraph.
Thank god I moved on from that mess...
Yeah I feel like he could have made his point without wording it that way.
Besides, how would guys like Lewan, Ryan, Gardner, Toussaint, Schofield need I keep going take it?
"They are only trying to hurt the program and the progress our coaches and student-athletes are fighting to make on Saturdays. Sometimes that progress takes a little bit longer than we all like, but we know the long-term success that it's going to bring."
It is a rather interestingly phrased statement (I'll put it that way), but I do like how he addresses this in particular regarding recent unfounded rumblings, if you will. It seems to me that sometimes the people who clamor and carry on about the need for progress end up being the very people who sabotage it in the end. Clearly, patience is being called for and I don't necessarily have a problem with giving it personally.
If people on message boards are hurting the program, what was Brandon doing when he was telling recruits he didn't know who the head coach would be three years ago? Or when he blatantly stated that a recruiting class wasn't as important as overpaying for a guy with a career losing record that no other major program ever would have hired?
If he said getting the right coach is more important than one recruiting class, he's absolutely correct. Do you disagree?
1. He didn't have to sabotage the recruiting class for months (he could have done what he just did to supposedly salvage a recruiting class rather than telling kids he had no idea who their coach would be and wouldn't have any idea until after the bowl game).
2. He didn't hire the right coach.
Your second point is obviously debateable, because we don't know who else was interested in taking the job or how well they would have done up to this point. As to your first point, i don't really disagree but hindsight is 20/20. If he was 100% sure he was going to fire him, then you're probably right. But it seemed to me like he was on the fence, and the ugly bowl game pushed him over the edge. I'm also not sure he said the things you're saying he said.
But how do you fire your current coach without knowing who is interested? He either got played by Harbaugh, which I doubt, or he knew he wanted Hoke and that was it.
I get the feeling, more and more, that DB is the college version of Jerry Jones, including the meddling and micromanagement, and that he will cost us top talent in coaching because who wants to work for that guy?
s Your third paragraph is 100% spot on. His incessant meddling and ego is unsettling to me because you're right, what elite level coach would here with that clown breathing down his neck and sitting in on film sessions?
I like Hoke and really want him to succeed here, but I'm starting to think he was hired because Brandon is stuck on that tired Michigan man shit, and also because Hoke was the most passive and least polarizing of the Michigan man candidates.
is there someone out there who is "a Michigan man"?
There is not a coach out there that will seriously consider Michigan if they don't have previous ties to the program.
there are many ways to handle that mess of a situation (one RR helped create), hindsight solves all missteps of the moment, and when you rig the assumptions in your favor, anyone can "prove" their way of doing it would have been correct.
On your second point, I disagree 100%.
the internet. You are defending a guy who achieved ONE winning record(and NO wins vs MSU and OSU) while castigating a guy who has had a winning all three years(and who has actually beaten MSU and OSU).
One would have to tried to real hard to write posts that are as poorly thought out as yours.
It is possible that he was waiting for Harbaugh to finish his season
He blatantly said Hoke was overpaid and no one else would have hires him? That mist have been good television.
I don't mind having patience as long as the promised land eventually arrives. But, it becomes increasingly difficult to believe when we watched OSU be better than us for so long while we struggle. For the record I think Hoke and Mattison should stay and Borges and maybe some other offensive coaches need to go. I think Hoke's recruiting success alone should give him the right to coach the guys he recruited as upperclassman. But, there are other signs, or lack there of...mainly the regression over the course of this season, that gives you cause for concern about the guy in charge. For me that's all it is at this point, cause for concern, but it's nontheless concerning. Sometimes our passion and frustration get the better of our logic. If I'm not mistaken the portion of our brains that controls logic has difficulty working when we are acting on emotion because emotion is a more primal drive than logic, which is more recently evolved.
Our recruiting gets an A.
Our Defense gets a B+, looking like it's moving toward an A.
Our problems have been on Offense. If we just had the same mediocre Offense that MSU has, we'd be undefeated or only have 1 close loss.
We don't need to trash our recruiting and our Defense, we just need to fix our Offense. If Hoke finds someone who can do that (and stays the hell out of his way), then we're on a good path.
That's what I'm hoping for.
I agree with this 100% D was an A in year one, but we had some good talent. A little less this year, but still B+ overall, and like you said, looking like A next year. We're a solid OC away from being a very good team.
I agree with the view that the D is a B+ and will likely be an A next year, but I wod grade the offense as an incomplete. Too many factors. First year in a new program, absolute worst 3-year stretch of OL recruiting in both numbers and aggregate talent (yes, I know Lewan is good, that's why I said aggregate), compete lack of TE on roster and aging a true frosh at that position, etc. If I had to guess , next year is a B-
I would personally give al another year, but at the same time if we get a great replacement then in fine with cutting him.
You wouldn't need to change many words for this statement to apply to RichRod in 2010. It's too bad he did not get the same consideration.
Let it go. He's gone!
It would be easier to let it go if Brandon wasn't still acting out his childish vendetta against RR. Stunts like refusing to give Coach Rodriguez a bowl ring make me ashamed of Michigan.
Which Bowl Ring?
It's beyond me why anyone would be so petty and childish as to deny RR and staff the rings they earned. It really makes Brandon look pathetic.
It would be much easier to let go if those words came out of the mouth of an athletic director that didn't fire RR.
Send a postcard from Bolivia. Your time here was short lived.
Ha. This post made exfan very mad. Check his blog. Hilarious.
Need I say more?
Although I will point out that my avatar pic looks even sexier on his home page.
Wait a minute. That's NOT you? That's just an avatar? I thought we had to post pictures of ourselves so people would know what we looked like.
All this time I thought I was actually debating Brandon Graham yesterday when I had my run in with "Magnus", that Seth actually was a talking hat and people without avatars were invisable people.
This has made me re-think a lot of things. Plus I'll need to change my avatar real quick!
With the progression Cam Cameron has made with LSU as their OC, I wonder if he'd come back home and take the same position? Mettenberger has looked so much better under his coaching and offense than before.
The fact that he mentioned Mattison and not Borges is telling.
Borges' demeanor during his presser looks like he's come to the same realization.
I did not think that Hoke and the AD would make a move on Borges, given their narrative of youth and inexperience trumping all. But given Borges' demeanor in his presser and Brandon's carefully worded statement, I'm am beginning to think they are going to move on Borges.
Brandon is anything if not a bottom line guy. Given the crap home schedule next year, the last thing he needs is fans staying away for yet another reason. A new OC would inject some interest into a mundane season next year, as opposed to the old OC keeping even more fans away.
so many on this blog absolutely convince and reassure themselves that Dave Brandon is a cartoon character, who shuns all forms of life in the pursuit of money and the devouring of delicious brains of the unspoiled innocents, is just astounding. 1) he made a lot more money in private industry, 2) he came back because he loves Michigan
Dave Brandon got paid a lot of money to turn the 2nd largest pizza company in America into the 3rd largest pizza company in America. "Making" money implies something a little different to me.
RR turned a 9 win team into a 3 win team.
Right -- I'm pretty sure they returned eight or nine starters on offense in '08. If RichRod hadn't run off Mallet it would have been nine/ten.
Following your logic somewhat, Michigan won a national championship in Lloyd Carr's last game by beating the prior year's champ. Same team, right?
straw man, additional pithy comments to follow, and a deep hatred from many that I suspect has roots in political bias and existed before Brandon ever made a move here.
He's raised revenue and prices like everyone else in CFB (except he hasn't put ads in the stadium), he's corporate, he's screwed a few things up, he seems a bit arrogant. In my opinion he's done a great job in the Football hire, and retaining Beilein. Now that it's clear Borges won't cut it, it seems he and Hoke are addressing that as well.
My disdain for DB lies in other things. The things you said are all true and they are the positives of his tenure.
However, DB had very little to do with retaining Beilein. Beilein wanted to finish his career at Michigan before DB was hired. DB simply had to draw up the paperwork after it became an obvious decision from the athletic department end.
wanted Beilein fired for underperforming. Brandon put the kibosh on that kept him. It was the right call and it came before the B1G championship or NC appearance
Who were these "many fans" you speak of? The 80% of the current Michigan Basketball fanbase that didn't give a crap about the program until it started winning again?
no, the other guys
And say "if I fired Beilein I'd have to go it and find a coach to hire just like him."
I believe DB said something along the lines of if he fired JB, who else would he hire, he would have to hire anither JB, in reference to JB being on the coaching ethics committee.
Do you actually attend games? It feels like PizzaBoy is reaching into your pockets to search for every bit of money. And no I don't like it.
You mean the sort of cartoon character who fires a coach when it's too late for his staff to get other jobs, doesn't send him his bowl ring, and takes a cheap passive aggressive shot at him three years after he fired the guy?
Or the guy who pretends that the noodle was never meant to stay and that water bottles and seat cushions are a security threat?
DB may not be a cartoon character, but he doesn't always act like a cool-headed professional either.
I thought I recognized him...Brandon plays one of the rotting zombies in episode 5 of the first season of "The Walking Dead." He gets dispatched on a local high school football field when Grimes takes a running start and kick's the prone Brandon's noggin, separating the head entirely, and it goes sailing over the crossbar for a FG.
You're supposed to say "spoiler alert"!!!!
Borges is going to resign or retire. Book it. Won't get fired but will step down. Forced possibly, or Al has seen the writing on the wall and already told them he is stepping down.
Any first hand knowledge or just a hunch on your part? It seems plausible.
I applaud DB for handling the rumor mill head on. It should help with alleviating some recruits concerns. But also pointing out Saban's problems in year four, is kind of taking the easy way out. That was also the year they took on B10 co-champs MSU and humbled them.
^^^^First of all is that Dave Brandon in that avatar? Bwah!
This was mentioned in another thread, but what about Tedford? I'm sure he wants a HC job, but coming here to do OC/QB coaching for a season or two would raise his HC stock, IMO. He's got a 5 star in Morris who could potentially make him look very good for his next HC job. Plus he could kill it in recruiting. "Son, have you ever heard of Aaron Rodgers?"
I could roll with tedford! He can run a prostyle offense and he did it with little talent
I like the thought of Tedford as well. Does anyone know what Norm Chow is doing these days? Could he be an option?
My only concern is the only QBs he sent to the nfl was Rodgers and boeller. Other then them the rest never panned out with Kevin Riley, Nate longshore, and joe ayoob
He was a name during the RR coaching search. He likely is familiar with Hoke due to their time in Cali. I'd support this hire. Tedford would probably look to bolt in a few years for a HC gig but were he offered that it would be because Michigan was looking so much better on Offense.
Much better shot at Tedford than Cameron.
On the rumor mill he is one of the top choices for the USC job because of his ties to the state of California and coaching in the Pac-12
This had to be done. The snowball was getting too big. I agree with the assumption that Al Borges will be fired. And Brady will definitly listen to Dave's opnions on a new OC. But at the end of the day, it will be Brady's call. Dave just writes the checks!
This puts out one fire(recruiting), but another may pop up Saturday if we get hammered by the suckeyes. So let's just pull ourselves together and redirect our frustrations on the tsds!
Wow, very surprising letter on many levels:
1. Generally very unprofessional, in my opinion, making desperate comparisons to other programs, including that of the coaching candidate everyone wanted in 2010.
2. Blatant disrespect of Rich Rodriguez. I would be pissed if I were RR and I read that statement. Does not look good for your AD to publicly trash former coaches.
3. Said "Al Borges is fired" as clearly as you can say it without directly saying it.
I suspect that Denard Robinson guy had a bit more impact than DB is letting on. Of course, that wouldn't fit the agenda, since he was an RR recruit.
in the face of adversity than we don't want him anyways. I think the character of the elite players is more important than that of less talented ones. The highschool stars get told about how great they are for four years and I think they are more prone to becoming premadonnas. We need our stars to be leaders; young men who grit their teeth and persevere. I think his decision will tell us a good deal about what kind of character he posesses.
I don't care if he gives Freshmen wedgies every day on the way to class if he is good and can compete on the field.
Those things must hurt!
That's some crazy thinking there. Lets see. You don't want Peppers now because he had the audacity to consider taking other visits. To you that doesn't show grit? What?
I don't want slow, less talented players that have grit as their greatest strength. I want electric, fast, über talented players like Peppers here. If gives us a better chance to win Championships.
What I said was if he decides to go elsewhere because of the road ahead looking tough, we're better off. I get that you think it's all about talent, and it is true that you need talented guys to win in the B1G. However if we fill our team up with talented guys who don't posses the right character, the talent won't be as much of a factor. That's just my opinion, but I've seen a ton a teams with big time talent that never translated into wins. How many players from North Carolina in the last 7 years have gone to the NFL? How many ACC championships did they win? Zero. What do I know though? I'm just a guy on a blog.
Peppers is from New Jersey. He does not have a life long love of Michigan where he feels the need to stick with the program out of dogged loyalty because the "road ahead is looking tough".
He is just trying to do what's best for him and his future. He has other options. That does not make him a bad character guy.
I am not from Michigan, and knew little about the school before I attended it. I chose it because it was in the top ten in the program that I was interested in. If soemthing would have happened to the program that changed that, I would have gone somewhere else. I had other options. That would not have made me a bad character guy.
For the record, I think the tempest has passed and both Hoke and Peppers will be here next season.
All I know is that I'd like to see a pre-Madonna.
Would bitching about bitching fall into that category?
Mattison may be doing a better job than Borges- but many teams have had above average yards against our D this year. And if OSU puts up 30+ on Saturday do people really think getting rid of Borges is the solution? My guess is OSU will score a lot in the first half, before Mattison's guys are tired and people can blame Borges' offense for the D. Hoke is impacting the team in an undesirable way and he will never win the B10. I am not sure if it is due to softness, favoritism, lack of emotion- but he is casting a shadow IMO.
The full humor of this didn't hit me until I remembered that Koger is a grad assistant on the current team.
When Koger and Martin originally committed to Lloyd...
And Martin formally decommitted after LC resigned and RR had to beat out ND and MSU in order to get Martin to commit to UM.
is basically and adolescent with an executive job.
Ain't it grand!!
It's sad that our AD is a joke, and that they are more concerned about "their way" than with the overall success of the program. Dave Brandon had to have HIS guy and make HIS stamp on the program at the end of 2010. Hoke stubbornly supports Borges while Borges stubbornly runs a predictable offense that regresses. Both guys poo poo the spread offense.
I wish we had coaches who were really willing to take some blame for the program. I also wish our AD wasn't a money loving d-bag.
football games. It's also sad that people cannot understand why Rodriguez was fired in thre first. Disasterously bad defenses and specials teams with an offense that was largely impotent versus good teams.
Hoke is not stubbornly supporting Borges. What he IS doing is not embarrassing the man. Apparently you think a leader should embarrass his subordinates in public. What a guy you are!
If Borges does get fired, is there any chance we could lure Jim McElwain from CSU to UM?
Why would he come down to being an OC again?
Al drives everyone around the bend repeatedly running into a 9-man box, or has his QB take seven-step drops when your line can't hold, run back-to-back reverses and refusal to throw short slants with Funches etc etc is because he cannot play-call. His play selection is as if while going through his voluminous playbook he just randomly selects a play for whatever reason without any rhyme or reason and thought to down and situation,
If I can see it on TV surely the opposing team's DC can see it. If you ask Al to design an O-scheme he can, but in game play calling - going from theoretical scheme to real game situations - is atrocious. Al is like the basketball coach who can't adjust during the game - great schemes and basketball IQ, but comes the game and he's a disaster - that's Al.
Recall Fisher - great recruiter but his in-game play calling and managment left you wondering what was he thinking.
GO BLUE! - BEAT OHIO!
Hoke is a good figurehead. A good recruiter. He says the right things. Does the right things. Writes hand written notes.
He is going nowhere and I have no problem with that. He relies heavily on his OC to make the right decisions. I'm...not...sure...that's....working.
I feel bad for Borgess and Funk because if we had a bunch of upperclassmen playing oline, they may look like geniuses and be playing for a Big Ten title right now. Unfortunately, we NEED our coordinator to pull rainbows out of his ass and he hasn't done it yet. Usually that means they will look for someone who can.
I'm good either way. If Borgess stays I have no doubt he is smart enough to make it work.
If they grab someone new that's fine too. Whatever they do...I want a MEAN, NASTY, bunch of badasses that want to pancake the hell out of sparty and Ohio for the next ten years.
In some professions/situations delegating is good. But why pay 3+ million to a guy whose best decision will be who to make coordinator. If that's what DB wanted he could have paid a lot less and spent more on staff although having the 3rd highest paid OC doesn't seem to be the answer either.
When I think of figurehead coaches I think of whomever occupies the position in Dallas or with the Raiders. Does that make DB the meddling owner?
I don't understand why people are ok with a head coach of Michigan that is very highly paid, being a "figurehead".
This truly boggles my mind.
I don't understand why it's OK to reduce Hoke as a coach as simply being a "figurehead"? What an insult to the man and his job.
There's no way you, me, or any other fan can possibly make that evaluation. Hoke's day-to-day coaching is probably extremely hands on, and I bet you a dollar that every player on that team would take offense to someone characterizing (cariacaturing?) him as simply a "figurehead coach".
He compares Saban year 1 to Hoke year three, then talks about Harbaugh's progress, which looks a heck of a lot more like Rich Rod's than Hoke's.
My biggest complaint is DB name dropped Bo, Mo, and Lloyd in the First paragraph......for the love of god can we stop looking in the rear view mirror. Can DB please turn the page of the 1970's? Continuously referring to the glory days of yesteryear doesn't have jack squat to do with today's game.
Ohio State has a pretty solid football tradition with Woody and even Tressel. But they seem just fine with hiring an elite coach in Meyer and letting him coach his way. Even though his schemes are not just a rehash of what Woody and Tressel did.
They are *gasp* betraying their own DNA. And they are winning.
But he does run primarily a spread offense.
Did you know his clause also mentioned Michigan.
Wasn't Notre Dame his dream job?
See if you can figure out who the young grad assistant is in this picture...
It's sad that you cannot stop trashing Rich Rod. We get it, you think he was terrible. (For what its worth, his impotent offense in year three was far more effective than the current one.). He's not the cause of every problem the program is currently dealing with. Enough already.
Whoops. That comment was supposed to respond to one of SQ's.
That tells me Borges is gone unless they win the next two. It also tells me unfortunately that DB is going to ride out Hoke until the whole thing collapses and the next coach will have to start all over
They largely are a disciplined bunch that plays hard and plays clean. I don't understand the anti-Hoke feelings. Certainly there are aspects that need to be improved(offense), but his teams are much better then why RR gave us in two of the three aspects of the game.
Exactly. Disciplined, clean teams that play hard. That says 8-4 or 9-3 not National Titles or even Rose Bowls. Outside of Stanford none of the top teams you would describe that way. DB needs to let go of this "michigan way" bullcrap and find a guy like Meyer with some of the SEC stink still on him. Need a guy thats going to lead some badass hoodlums that are going to fly around making plays and knock people out
So you're not the brightest... it'll be alright. The poor character thing though, that's tougher to overcome.
Lol have fun at 8-4
I'll take 8-4 with class if that is the trade-off. The day we have to start cheating to win is the day I stop following the school I spent 8 years at.
Lemme guess: you've never set foot inside a UM classroom, have you?
about college football players. Some of the best athletes are also really smart guys and really good guys. The idea that someone who plays fast and aggressive on the football field also needs to be a badass hoodlum is prejudicial and borders on the racist.
Also agreed. We often get the assumption around here that guys who play for programs like Michigan State are not that smart, but hard workers. This elides the fact that doing well in school takes hard work, and that often its the same basic drive for self-improvement that leads to excelling in the classroom and on the playing field.
How does it border on racist? Is it because white kids can't be hoodlums? If that is your insinuation, then that is the only moderately racist comment here.
For the record, the comment/poster you're referring to are pretty asinine, so I agree with your overall stance here.
But it shows up an awful lot in comments that are pretty clearly racist (for instance). I should have said somthing like, "you comments could be construed as racist".
But it's better that we not get into this. No politics, etc.
This is good news and bad news.
The bad news: Hoke is Brandon's guy and there is no way Brandon is ever going to admit a mistake on Hoke unless he starts having losing seasons.
The good news: Brandon cares about the bottom line a whole bunch. A bunch of 8-4 seasons won't bring in the attendence to finance Dave's big spending plans. So Brandon will help his guy Hoke be successful by "suggesting" changes to the coaching staff and throwing a bunch of money at whomever they pick.
This is just completely bizarre. Michigan has become a circus, starting with PT Brandon at the head.
UM is the New York Jets of college ball.
... but only by the historical standards we are accustomed to.
We live in a brave new world of social media. I think Brandon is responding to that. I don't mind that he is doing so. This is the age of Twitter and Facebook and blogs and hyperreactive recruiting sites.
Bo Schembechler would never have had any part of anything like this. But as I say, times have changed.
Like others, I am sensitive to the Kremlin-wall aspect of Brandon's trashing Rich Rodriguez by omission. And the startling telegraphing of no confidence in Al Borges. But hell, Brandon fired Rodriguez. Trashing him, by omission in a press release, is now pretty much inconsequential for Rich Rod. Coach Rod is trying to figure out how to beat a good Arizona State team in a rivalry game and get Arizona into the Top 20 and a good bowl game in just about forever. I don't think that Coach Rod has more than about 25 seconds to think about a Dave Brandon press release right now.
I agree with you, Bando. The depth and the detail and the snarkiness of this press release is just as you say; bizarre.
He might just as well have begun it, "Dear Jabrill..."
U know what? How u like the timing of peppers tweeting his other visits? Pretty rotten, no? I mean, if he loves michigan so much then u wait until season over
But I agree with section1 on this. Social media has changed all the rules, and you really have no choice but to respond.
Name me one athletic director in America who does all of the following:
1. Chestbumps players and waits to get an on-camera handshake with the head coach after wins.
2. Watches game film with coaches on Sunday morning, even if they don't want him there or find the exercise useful or convenient.
3. Takes to his blog to essentially personally respond to a recruit's tweet, in turn further insulting a former coach AND pretty much broadcasting he's going to fire the offensive coordinator three days before the Ohio State game. Not to mention coming off as someone who doesn't really understand football, yet really wants to make us believe he knows what he's doing.
I could go on. Yet the fact is Brandon is trying really hard to do all the things he thinks a manager needs to do, but he doesn't realize that these kind of Mickey Mouse tactics come off as cartoonish and amateur when you're working for one of America's most prestigious universities with an athletic tradition to match. This isn't pizza and junk mail. It's Michigan.
Yes, we live in a different world of social media. But you're telling me if someone with the integrity, class, and experience of Don Canham, Fritz Crisler, or Bo were dumped in this situation with Twitter and Facebook and Youtube, they'd come up with what Brandon put out there today? Would those guys hit send on a bizarre, half-baked MGoDiary post about Bama and Stanford?
We're Michigan. It's time our Athletic Director acted like it.
I'm pretty sure Mary Sue Coleman does all of those things - or at least No. 1 and No. 2.
It's possible that I've been misinformed, though.
Agree with all of this. No way to spin any of this a positive.
He's a strange, petty dude. This has been my very limited experience with him, anyway.
"A bizarre, half-baked MGoDiary post about Bama and Stanford" -- that's a perfect description.
To be fair, the NW AD looked pretty stupid at the end of regulation waving his arms underneath the goal post.
I guess I fail to see your point. Its a bad thing that the man in charge of funding our football and all non revenue sports is involved? I hate to break up a good anti DB circlejerk but really?
Oh my gawd this isn't Michigan, 1973 rabble rabble. Bullshit. Its bullshit.
In what sense do you mean Brandon doesn't understand football? He did play at a collegiate level, so it seems likely he has some knowledge base.
On Off the Field this week, Bacon recounted that he specifically talked to RR about Brandon watching game tape on Sundays. When asked how much Brandon actually knew about football, RR kind of just looked at him and said "about as much as the average fan." And left it at that.
Brandon was a benchwarmer on a series of Michigan football teams that pretty much didn't throw the ball (even less than most other Bo teams did, actually). He played three different positions over those years (including kicker) and played two actual snaps of game competition. He may have played football, but the football he played was a different universe than what we're looking at today. He never continued on in the game after 1973, either as a player or a coach. His "knowledge base" is pretty much relevant to running up the middle, in which case a 2013 Borges offense might be up his alley.
Plainly, Brandon watching game film is not being involved, it's being overbearing. Just because he played a pretty different form of football 40 years ago doesn't mean he automatically understands the far more complex offensive and defensive systems employed today, especially since he hasn't played or coached since. Him sitting there on Sunday mornings benefits pretty much no one. He would get just as much firing up his DVR.
So maybe he attends those film sessions to educate himself? Sure, he may be a total douche, but the reality is that nobody on this blog knows exactly why he's there or what he does when he's there.
With all of the coaches in the back row...
Good goddamn that's an incredible mental image.
That's another. Maybe he can multi task for Michigan as well.
". . . individuals who are spreading inaccurate rumors and saying inappropriate things about coachs, players and recruits don't know what's going on inside Schembechler Hall or on the practice field."
While I applaud Beandon for making a public statement of support for that beleaguered team, at the same Brandon does himself, nor the unversity, no favor with that Fort Schembechler bunker mentality. If he wants to head off inaccurate inofrmation or stop rumor mongering in today's world of unfiltered commnications he needs to loosen it up a little and provide some type of access to what is going besides pressors that are at best filled with platitudes and generalities.
If there are lingering hard feelings toward the Freep's flawed reporting, set up a pool reporter system, e.g. MLive, to have a semblance of control without a bunker mentality. It helps prevent media speculation while retain some semblance of information control without a bunker mentality. A bunker mentality is counter productive given today's democratized unfiltered communications tools.
All of people, Brandon should know that with a bunker mentality you allow people to say whatever they want and you lose the very control of the communications you seek, resulting in the scrambling to put out a statement like this evening's - either you tell your story and deliver your information or someone else will fill that void.
We also know how to hold people accountable for the roles and responsibilities they have as part of the privilege for being a part of Michigan Football -- and we will.
Yeah, that statement was not just an arbitrary choice of words. The rest of the statement was written like a Federal Reserve press release with everything parsed just so. That statement is no exception.
Did our AD just come out and make a statement about our coach in response to a tweet from one single recruit? Bo is rolling over in his grave for sure.
is the next Woodson? In that case, I think his comments are extremely worthwhile.
didn't live in an era with twitter.
But let's pretend like that's irrelevant. Right.
What a clown. Never throw your own people under the bus, even those you had to let go. It just makes everyone else ready for the axe to fall on them.
Secondly, bluster is a sign of weakness. Demonstrate results and exhibit confidence.
Who exactly is supposed to be the audience of this sweat flop?
...is the vomit rainbow-colored, sparkly, odorless, and immediately-disappearing.
Who has RR landed besides Denard, Lewan, Gallon, and Ryan and everyone knows that Jake ryan would be giving up 600 yards of offense a game with RR's defense. RR sucked here but I agree that he wasn't given a chance. We can't make the same mistake again. Brandon isn't going to fire Hoke this year. Either he makes a Belein like improvement in year 4 when he has more than 6 scholarship OL or he'll be canned. We have months to bitch and moan about stuff but only 3 days until we play in college football's biggest rivalry. Be there or forever lose your Michigan fan card.
RR had a chance and didnt fight hard enough for Casteel, along with having zero conscientiousness of the programs history. Plus he was sandbagged by the prior coach Carr. Bo once said that Bump couldve sandbagged him and didnt and was really grateful
Yep. It didn't slow down 'Bama in a bowl game or anything.
It is never a good thing when your AD has to make statements like this and it just shows you that the state of the program is not in great shape.
I don't know how good Gardner is when the OL gives up a sack on every play. He does still have a 60 percent completition percentage. I went to a HS hockey game with an all state goalie that gave up 7 goals because his defensemen suck this year.
Didn't read. But if he mentions Mattison and Hoke and no Borges, that is very telling
Raw deal or not, he was an embarrassment. Probation was unforgivable, along with the desperate recruiting. No way in hell he wind 11 games and goes to the Sugar Bowl that year.
Are you aware of what the probation was for?
Yeah, I'd rather discuss the omission of Borges than caring about RR or Carr or anyone else. I'd also rather get hyped for the game but I've been told to go hide in my closet for the entire day on Saturday because we have no chance of winning against the great Ohio State.
but I would not be surprised if this statement was made now because of the Peppers situation.
As predicted by many here, Borges will be THE sacrificial lamb for this season. David Brandon will continue to gouge season ticket-holders and demand that the next OC coaches MANBALL.
Where is he promoting MANBALL?
If that statement wasn't clear enough for you try this from today's MLive:
"This is a program in transition, this is a program that's going back to hard-nosed, big-boy football," Brandon said. "Which is what Michigan is used to playing. And we're in the process of putting the pieces in place to afford us to do that consistently and effectively."
The former AD's coach but not your coach. Like it or not Hoke is here for the long run. I hope he can turn things around but that may depend how loyal he is to Al? Only time will tell but my guess is that not many changes will be made through next season. They may hir a QB coach! I have a feeling that Hoke's loyalty may cost him his job. Al will run his predictable offense next year and we will see at least 4 losses. Will this be good for enough for DB?
Don Canham famously wanted to hire Bo from Miami, but keep all of the Michigan assistants. Bo refused. Bo got his way; he got Hanlon, Moeller, Chuck Sobart, Larry Smith, etc.
In a story that doesn't sound at all like Don Canham, it is said that Canham told all of the assistants that their hiring at Michigan had been Bo's idea, but that if Michigan didn't produce, they'd be fired. That sounds so unlike Canham, that I have a hard time believing it.
But in a story that sounds so much like Canham that I feel it has to be true, Bo asked Canham how the Michigan loyalists who could not imagine an unknown guy with a funny name from Miami of Ohio ever replacing the golden hero of Michigan football, Bump Elliott. Bo wondered if he'd be fired. Canham replied that if Bo didn't win, they'd both (Canham and Schembechler together) be fired.
Wading into the realm of assistant coaches is something that all AD's like to do. Bill Martin, as reported by John U. Bacon, wanted Rich Rodriguez to retain most of the Michigan assistants. Mary Sue Coleman stepped in and said, "Bill, you can't ask him to do that." We know that Canham tried to do it (that much is not rumor; everybody confirmed it).
And -- for sure -- it was a lot easier for Brandon to fire Rodriguez, than it will ever be for Brandon to fire Hoke. Exactly as you suggest.
My guess is that Brady Hoke will be Michigan's football coach longer than Dave Brandon will be Michigan's AD.
He's the only guy that can squash any rumors and he did fire the previous coach after 3 years, so that's out there as ammo for those that care to throw FUD. He did fire RR, so why would you expect him to even mention the guy. Yes, he is looking backwards to a happier time and I believe a lot of people around here do the same thing. We would like things to be like that again...as it traditionally has been. The use of the phrase "hold people accountable" is probably why Al was sweating bullets at his Tues. presser. Everyone around here is clamoring for that, so while the phrasing may not have met your personal tastes, I'd say the core message is what needed to be said.
Now, resume your self flagellation. "Domino is requiem" - thwack!
Pie Iesu Domine. Dona eis requiem.
It was late and I really didn't want to go fishing around for this clip. Thwack!
Nothing is going to happen until the people in charge of the team and AD take a look in the mirror and realize this isn't 1990. This is 2013 and Michigan isn't Michigan anymore. It's going to take a lot of work to get back on top. Work I'm not sure anyone currently in the University is willing to do. We didn't fall because we stopped playing Michigan football we fell because we failed to advance, failed to evolve. The SEC might use shady tactics and other what not’s but top recruits continue to flock there and the teams continue to excel. This isn't the good old days of college football the country club attitude that many fans and former players around here have is the reason we're here. Rich Rod was labeled as a failure before he got started. Rich Rod was an attempt to shift into a new era, I don't mean the spread offense necessarily. I am talking about an attitude. State out coaches us and develops talent better than we do. Ohio is willing to do whatever it takes to win and they WIN. Every time I watch Michigan State play they play with a chip on their shoulder blue collar style of play. When I watch Michigan the majority of the time it feels like they're just happy to be there. I'm just tired of people thinking oh it's Michigan we will win. Those days are gone. We're all tired of hearing Brady Hoke say well the kids played hard and we failed as coaches, we will try better next week. Or were still so young. Or we failed to execute. This has gone on since the Notre Dame game. No changes nothing in fact things have been worse. It's time they start turning the table. I don't know what the answer is but Hoke deserves his fair chance and he will get it I just hope a blue collar anywhere any place anytime mentality and work ethic comes to on of his teams.
I commend Brandon for this. It had to be said. Yes some feelings will be hurt - but you HAVE to steady the ship. Michigan is a threat to many programs so they try to tear M down. Go Blue!
So the Athletic Director putting up a weird blog post in direct response to a single tweet by a prize recruit is "steadying the ship?" Is Michigan really that much of a trainwreck that this is what we need Dave Brandon to do?
Hoke hasn't said anything that has given me any faith that he was willing to do something with his staff to address what is happening. If you're the boss and you don't think your employees are handling their staff correctly, sometimes you have to step in. I'm not in love with Brandon, but I don't have a problem with him putting this out there.
If Peppers is thinking that there's an issue, I'm sure he isn't the only one. I don't see anything to be gained from pretending this isn't a trainwreck. All signs point to this team getting pounded at home by its biggest rival and the light for the future is flickering. It's a trainwreck and if Brandon putting this out helps steady things, that's the right thing to do.
how many other #2 ranked recruits has this train wreck ever gotten? brandon knows the sharks are swirling around peppers unlike any other recruit in michigan history. I am very happy he is attending to this matter not only for peppers but for others considering michigan like mcdowell.
What was "weird" about the blog post? It's a blog in support of a head coach, and encouraging fans to be patient and support the team. And do you honestly think it was in response to a single tweet? Or maybe more accurately it was in response to the thousands of posts here and elsewhere, and endless media speculation, about the future of Brady Hoke? Probably best to just let that fester, huh? IMO, it was exactly the right thing to do, and gives me hope that we WILL hold people (read Borges, Funk) accountable after the season is over.
I hope that the decision to let Borges go initially came from Hoke and not Brandon. If Hoke will indeed be one of the best Michigan coaches ever, he has to be able to evaluate his employees independent of whatever friendship they might share.
who knows man. in truth who cares. competent coach vs competent AD, 6 of half dozen. preferably both, but this season makes you wonder. this letter was a good start. so long Al. thanks for two decent years and one shit one.
2011 success, imo. Then the O started transitioning and got worse. I wanted AB fired last year after the OSU game. The play calling was so predictable and that hasn't changed.
As I predicted. As we get older we tended to get things right more often. Knew there was zero chance Hoke would go, but I'm almost certain my good buddy Al is a goner. That Brandon letter is all you need to see. No mention of Borges in the least. Thanks for the effort Al. Your offenses might have been something before electricity but not any more. Your paycheck is too large to garner any sympathy. And the part where you probably cost us Hand and a few other recruits this year. When you're gone I can reinvest into Michigan football, and change my avatar. Until that day comes, Henry the Otter for me. Brandon's letter was very encouraging. Great day.
I love your new avatar BTW - it's hilariious.
Now, if I'm Al I see the hand-writing on wall too so I'm going out in blaze of Borges-glory. Each and every time I see Brady without the headset I'm calling a tackle over stretch play out on an I set. Every time. I dont care what the down or distance is, I'm calling it. And I'm making sure that I keep Fitz in the game at all costs too. When the headset comes back on I'll go back to calling other plays but just to fuck with Brady & Brandon I'm doing that.
Oh yes....play action? Baby it's coming on every pass play we run.
First, I love that he wrote this. But multiple excalmation points and ALL CAPS are high school shit. Maybe that's his audience. And this on Borges: much like Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer, he has always excelled when his personnel rocked, and suffered when it didn't. Ebbs and flows, bros, ebbs and flows. I was around for AC and Wrangler I, and john Cooper and Gary Moeller and RR. I will be at The Game Saturday with my Columbus, OH uncles, and my UM student younger brother and sister and my 12 year old kid. Life is so fucking good it's not fair. We are privleged to have such an awesome program to root for, and no matter what current perception is, the people runnign the offense are not stupid. They are human. How about we all take a deep breath,thank God we are not fucking orphans living on the streets of some subsharan african nation sucking dick to eat, and enjoy these last few weeks of college football? fuck me. The trolls are killing this site,compelling even DB to respond. Wow.