Granted, I'm a huge football fan, but this just boggles my mind. Perhaps trimming the student section isn't such a wild idea.
spoiler alert: i linked this
Granted, I'm a huge football fan, but this just boggles my mind. Perhaps trimming the student section isn't such a wild idea.
It leads me to wonder if the last few years of the Carr era and the RR experiment have led to a disinterested student base. These kids are all too young to remember 1997. Too young to care much about Desmond, Woodson, and company. Too young to remember bomb dogs at OSU, Jim Cooper, or expecting to win every game, every year.
Even I don't remember Jim Cooper.
You may have heard of one of his relatives, though, by the name of John.
2006 was pretty damn interesting (though it was a year with the bad home schedule).
I agree. I thought 2006 was an immensely fun year. Could have been a confluence of other factors as well, but I remember that season being exciting almost every week. The hype just kept building and building all year.
And the "Carr era/RR experiment" malaise is infecting the whole country?
Does anyone else have a hard time putting the Carr era and RR experiment in the same category? One of those resulted in a national championship and perennial bowl game appearances and winning records... the other one, not so much.
I believe the poster was referring to the last few years of the Carr era, which included the most embarassing loss in Michigan history (the Horror), a demolition by Oregon, and a failure to recruit competently.
All of Carr's recruiting classes were ranked highly. People are making the guy sound like he was Ron Zook and his recruiting fell off a cliff at the end. That's not true. His classes look worse than they really were in large part because 1) Mallett, the centerpiece of the offensive recruits, left and 2) a horrible defensive staff replaced his own.
so by "the last few years" you mean the first two games of his last season, which ended in a long win streak and a big upset over Florida in a bowl?
let's forget the three Rose Bowls in the previous 4 seasons, too.
or the constant diet of snakky cakes?
Trimming the student section isn't the solution nor is raising prices. What we really should do is make student tickets free, first come first serve at the gate. Then you couldn't sell tickets and no more waking up late or tailgating into game time because seats won't be there.
Give us hard logical reasons why trimming the student section isn't the solution to the problem of many thousands of students routinely not showing up for games, when at the same time there are multi-year waits for regular fans to become eligible to get season tickets.
I am ok with trimming the student section but worry about the ways in which it would be done. Since the issue seems to be that students who have bought tickets are not coming...how will the trimming of the section selectively exclude them and not somone who attends the games. I just worry about a scenario in which people like freshman (who hypothetically would go to the games) or good fans are left out and people who are casual fans, at best, receive tickets due to their credit standing...In that situation, we have shrunk the student section and still kept all of the shitty fans there - double whammy.
1) reduce season ticket allotment to students
2) require that students meet attendance minimums and enter the stadium promptly
3) give ticket priority to students who meet or exceed these guidelines and determine seating based in attendance criteria first
This is clearly the way to do it. As a student, I don't want to camp out before every home game and waste hours of my time. I should, however, be rewarded next year for showing up on time throught this year when my seats are assigned next year. And I shouldn't have to prove my arrival time on some shitty HAIL app with spotty service when a ticket could do it for me much more easily.
Because there are plenty of students that want those seats. I think that's pretty obvious with the amount of students there are. The reason the student section doesn't fill is because students already have the tickets and can 1) be late because they still have that seat and 2) choose not to show up if they don't care about losing their money.
The student section is the only thing that makes the stadium somewhat loud. Other than that it's dead half the time.
thats what UF basketball does. Tickets are free, but the students put their name into a lottery, if you get a ticket and you don't go to the game you cant put your name in for the next 3 games.
A lot of basketball teams do this from what I've heard.
If you don't do the former?
If you have a seat for everyone, and they didn't even pay for it, doesn't that decrease the value and reason to go? Now if you trimmed the section in half, and then instituted your policy, it'd be full. But without trimming you're going to get empty seats every game.
You don't have a seat for everyone though. There are a lot of students that can't buy tickets or couldn't get tickets. The students paying for tickets aren't the only people that want tickets, just the people that had the money to buy them. Whether they chose to go to the game, arrive late, or sell them is up to them.
...the first come, first served general admission style of seating. But I'm not a student these days so what do I know.
Maybe it's just me, but I couldn't imagine not going to the game when I was a student. Granted we didn't have the sweet television setups that people have today (but how many students really have that option?).
Not sure I understand this trend, anyone have any possible explanations?
I think sometimes it's just easier for people to recover from their Friday night drunkenness by watching the game on a high-definition TV.
False. The best way for students to recover from their Friday night drunkenness is to wake up at 8am, crack open that ice cold Natty Light, hop in the shower, play pong for a few hours, and then head to the game. Worked for me every time.
Noon games were perfect. Keep the buzz going from Friday night. Crash for a few hours after the game and repeat the process Saturday night.
It's true. 3:30 games require you to actually deal with the hangover rather than waking up still drunk.
330 Games give you more time to be blackout by powering thru the hangover.
i'm not a rookie, i'm a retired veteran. speaking of rookie though, do you really need more than 3 hours to get blackout? sounds like you should work on your efficiency.
Probably just too many students getting tickets because it's the thing to do, not because they are die hard fans. The problem with shrinking the student section is taking the tickets away from the students that don't care without keeping out die hards.
i can't speak to how it's changed, but i can make some observations from this year and last year as a grad student with tickets. i have been in a group both years with fellow students in the nursing school. when march rolls around and the idea of buying tickets in a group is brought up, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and wants in. people seem to come to the first game - school hasn't really started, weather is nice, good excuse to tailgate/get drunk, etc. One girl in my group hasn't come to a single game since then. One friend hasn't come to a single game because her boyfriend would rather tailgate then go to the game. I've bought a lot of her tickets for friends who wanted to go, but she didn't mention that she wasn't going to the msu game and i didn't specifically ask her, assuming she'd at least go to that game - but she didn't, and her ticket was completely unused. The other people who come in my group come to maybe 50% of the games, always come late (mid 1st quarter or beyond), prefer talking to watching the game, and always leave early. this seems to hold true for the majority of people we sit around (row 64ish). come late, leave early, lots of picture taking for facebook, lots of texting, lots of drunkenly falling all over. my conclusion is a LOT of people who buy tickets don't enjoy football, but do it b.c it's cool and they do enjoy the tailgating. i'm not sure what you do to discourage this though. raising ticket prices would be criminal for those of us who go to games to (gasp) actually watch football.
not the Facebook thing obviously, but there have always been students who bought tickets because it was cool and who were more interested in getting drunk/talking. I just don't get why it's apparently getting worse.
I think the current undergrads didn't get hooked on football in the same way that many of us were. Freshmen arrived to see 5-7 Rich Rodriguez teams and never got hooked. Die-hards couldn't take the disappointment week after week and had to care a little less. Kids started doing other things on Saturdays; it was more fun.
Also, being a sports fan isn't as cool anymore. When I was 18 we all played NCAA and Madden and Fifa incessantly. Now I'm nerdy because I still play those and not Modern Warfare or Skyrim or whatever the kids are doing these days. They generally don't wear jerseys around and watch Sportscenter highlights. It's just a different and less sports-centered generation, maybe.
As noted in the article, it is happening all over the country, not just places that didn't have success in 2008. I mean, at MSU, their group of freshman has seen their best run of success in almost 40 years at that school in football. Yet, they have even worse problems than UM does in terms of students showing up.
Like others, it is more of a generational/technology thing - you now can watch the game on 60" flat screen (or your phone, or your computer - whatever) and not have to go through the "difficulty" of actually getting off your butt, shaking off your sleepiness/hangover, getting dressed, watiing in line, etc. Combine that with Michigan's student section being huge, so that pretty much any student who (at least in theory) that is somewhat interested can get a ticket, along with no real penalty/benefit at UM if you show up on time (if at all) -- you're going to have a lot no-shows.
Even top 10 Florida had an almost empty student section around kickoff a couple of weeks ago.
Modern Warfare and Skyrim are less dorky than Madden and other sports games now? Is that really true. Christ I'm old.
This is almost as shocking to me as when I left my lily-white Livonia for Ann Arbor and discovered that being in band made you a badass at HBCs (thanks, Nick Cannon, for sparking that conversation.)
Wait, you're nerdy because you don't play Modern Warfare?
Now my mind is officially blown.
I totally agree. I'm a freshman and the idea of not showing for a game is crazy to me. There's nothing better than a Saturday at the Big House.
Dave, we need moar advertising to get student's to show up
Or a mascot!
When I first arrived in Madison in the early 2000's, I incessantly mocked rabid Badger fans about the UW student section arriving very late - or not at all - for many games. I constantly claimed "when I was at Michigan, the student section was always full and arrived in time for kickoff". I'm apparently very old since my statement is no longer true at UM, and I'm dismayed by this fact. Now get off my lawn.
Having spent the 2009 season in the upper bowl of the student section, I can attest to two things:
1) it's mainly underclassmen who are there more for the social scene than the game
2) There is little to no coordination among the students as in other sports on campus. The upperclassmen need to take control and organize the students. They are a rudderless ship
Full disclosure, I spent the 2006 season in much better seats of the student section and these problems did not exist. People showed up, on time, and were rocking for the entire game.
When I was an upperclassman I didn't have time to go to games. I watched on tv , sometimes, other times listened to the games on radio while trying to get homework done.
Pretty much my story as well.
You can make time, it's all about what's important to you. I don't mean to imply that choosing to not go to games is wrong or anything, but I got a BSE and MSE in 4.5 years and never missed a game. I missed a lot of sleep, but never a game.
Did you work, too, during your time at school? I did, although not every term. I listened to the infamous Colorado game while at work.
Also I didn't want to spend money on tickets - that $100 (or whatever it was, I don't remember now) was the same as a textbook. I had to watch every penny.
I worked when I had to, which was about half the time. I was fortunate to land jobs that didn't have Saturday hours.
Boom. More students attending. Guaranteed
Hey you Pandora! Come open this box right here. Naw I'm just gonna watch. This is gonna be awesome.
In all seriousness, a friend works in an athletic department that does public relation type stuff. I've asked him whether this will ever happen where he is. At his university at least, this thought is thrown out almost monthly and fiercely debated by the staff until the AD tells everyone alcohol brings more problems than solutions. Wash, rinse, repeat.
There was a freakonomics podcast a while back that was about selling alcohol to lower the number of drunk students and incidents. It worked because the school could then control it.
It was about West Virginia of all places.
Not sure alcohol sales would drive up attendance though as most undergrads are under-21.
Most undergrads have fake ids
The AD staff can fiercely debate this all they want, but until the Big Ten changes its rule forbidding alcohol sales at college sporting events in B1G University-owned athletic venues, it doesn't really matter what they decide.
Maybe they have changed that rule already, but I am not aware of any exceptions in the Big Ten. Minnesota has alcohol sales at football, but that stadium is not owned by the University. I also know that a lot of Wisconsin hockey fans were disappointed when the team moved out of the Dane County Coliseum and into the Kohl Center on the Wisconsin campus for that very reason.
Maybe they should give the beer away for free?
It's not a university in the B1G and there are other schools in his conference that serve alcohol so the dike is already leaking where he works.
It has something to do with this?
Ehh, I was an out of state student during undergrad and went to every football game. I am in grad school here now and still haven't missed one. I know plenty of out of state kids at michigan that have embraced michigan football and are very passionate about it. The problem seems to be non-unique to us "out of state" people anyways...other schools like MSU that are traditionally very heavy in-state are seeing worse attendance issues in their student sections.
Most of the out-of-state students I know get tickets, but then they're always the ones who in November mention stuff like, "Yeah... I haven't been to a game since the first one..." The in-staters are certainly part of the problem too, but much less so.
Your point on MSU is moot because nobody cares about MSU football.
I'm not going to get in an anecdotal pissing match with you. My point is that just saying out of state people suck does nothing to address the issue, which is that people who are buying tickets are not coming to the game. I'm more interested in creating a system that prevents/discourages that than just scapegoating out of state students.
Doesn't explain why other schools are seeing the same trend unless they too are admitting more out of state students.
It may be more an out of the country thing. Foreign enrollment is way up at US colleges.
I don't think that's a factor, unless international students are buying large numbers of football season tickets at every school. That seems pretty unlikely.
The issue across the country isn't that students aren't buying tickets, but that they're buying them and for some reason don't use them.
damn double post.
I came in from Vermont as somebody who was interested in football, and liked the idea of school spirit but it didn't go much beyond that. I wound up joining the MMB in my sophomore year, and now I actually feel guilty if I have to miss watching a game.
Correlation, not causation in my opinion.
they are studying ...or working at a job to pay those escalating tuition bills.
The surcharge was added in the late 1990s or early 2000s as a way to curb scalping in the diag/in front of the Union. The reason was mainly due to the ridiculous amounts of money being made on tickets like OSU or MSU. If they removed the surcharge, it would allow the students that aren't attending to sell their tickets in advance. This would fix the problem and create a free market for these tickets. Yeah, the student section wouldn't be a true student section anymore, but at least it would be full.
I don't know if that's the answer. I remember there being a lot of complaining about non-Michigan fans sitting in our student section, as well as some older people who just didn't understand how students behave. Once, I saw an elderly couple in the student section, using someone's scalped tickets, complain about the students in front of them. The ushers finally came and actually made the students sit.
People have way more free time than 4 hours per week. Students just apparently want to do something else with it.
I'll be that guy to say it, I'm sure someone is thinking it.
But what's the international student population there these days? International students aren't necessarily rabid American Football fans. Not saying there are 11,000 of them but it could be a minor reason.
Edit: Well Blueinorion just said something similar to what I was getting at, except he has facts.
I think you're on to something. As the article posted above indicates, over 40% of Michigan's admissions are international and out-of-state students, people who may not have grown up football fans and certainly not Michigan fans. Contrast that with our rival at Ohio, their admission pecentage of out-of-state/international is only 9%.
Yes, Michigan is more attractive academically, but it pays the price fan-wise.
But those students wouldn't have gotten tickets in the first place. The issue, if I'm understanding it correctly, is people that have tickets that simply aren't showing up.
And we've always admitted a pretty large share of our student body from out-of-state. That's not a new development.
Only around 50% of the student body buys season tickets, so that means that there are a significant number of Michigan residents not buying them, either.
Most likely, the parents paid for those tickets.
What does that matter? I don't see what that has to do with anything.
I bet if we offered punch and pie at the games for students, they would show.
Pizza. Pull some strings, Brandon.
Hmm, wonder if they could institute some program where after the first quarter, they start reselling 75% of the unfilled student tickets at a well-discounted price on a first-come first served basis. They know where those seats are; it's all in their scanners. All money goes to charity so the AD doesn't profit from double-selling tickets. Locals or other big fans who can't get/afford season tickets could get in and see a game. Or 3/4 of one. If you are a legitimate student season ticket holder who shows up after the 1st quarter with your ticket, you may have to be resissued a different one if they resold yours. The 75% cap would guarantee that no season ticket holder who comes that late will be screwed out of seeing a game (hey, some of them may have good reasons), although they might be seeing it from a different seat.
The one thing that probably makes this unworkable is the way students move down; there would be a lot of disruption with all kind of people coming in looking for their seat after the game has already begun, and not all of them are going to be cool with "find a seat somewhere else, asshole" which is what I expect a lot of them will hear.
You could argue that they could do this with all other seats, but premium seat purchasers would get super huffy. That goes double for the club seats; people who spent gazillions would probably just freak right out to have so many hoi polloi among them. Students are the ones you could most easily do this to and survive the angry fallout.
Well, there's fairness, and then there's what you can get away with.
or how about just making the entire student section general admission. Solves the "find a new seat" a hole problem real quick. It also solves the entire issue of the social scene first students who somehow get lucked into sec 26 B seats. Sure it creates pressure to create a Hokeville camping ground outside the stadium. It also creates another issue of the diehards getting screwed out of their seat if something unavoidable comes up that prevents them from getting to the game on time. If it works for both the Maize Rage and the Children of Yost, then it can work in the student section.
I also suggest they start selling beer and cocktails at the game.
but not for the rest of the bball student section... at the first 3 games, none of the upper deck part of the student section in crisler was filled (essentially the shame problem as the top rows in big house being empty)
Reselling tickets at a discount would cut revenues.
People (non-students) would hold off on donating and/or buying season ticket packs and wait to get in for cheap.
It's the same thing as when people wonder why at 70% empty early season basketball games, they dont just give away free tickets or sell them for like $1 - nobody would buy the full price tickets if they expect handouts.
Literally no pro-sports team does this, and no university sells discounted tickets to football/bball games to non-students.
You could argue some people wouldn't want to miss the first quarter or risk not getting in... but there would be enough people who choose this option over ponying up for full price tix to make it incredibly unprofitbale, and thus unpalatable to the AD, even if it alleviates the attendance problem
You can get plenty of early season basketball tickets on Stub Hub for five bucks or less. There are still thousands of empty seats. People simply don't want to go, at any price.
Yet they will pay top dollar when State, Ohio, Indiana, etc., come to town. The opponent drives demand. Giving away tickets for Binghamton wouldn't stop folks from paying top dollar for top opponents.
Trim the student section. Once they won't be able to get into games because someone else will have what was once their section, it will teach them get there EARLY. Not on time. On time is late.
this year they enlarged the student section and I cannot remember even 1 game that was TOTALLY full ... much less have students there at kickoff. Eveidently some students do NOT value having football tickets, so reducing the number of tickets will still allow those students that really want to go to get theirs.
They had their chance ... and blew it
What about FREE PIZZA??????
I definitely think that they should track people's attendance at games. To me, it would greatly assist them in deciding how priority should be given when/if they decide to trim the student section.
The Izzone tracks attendance. If you don't show up, then you lose your priority within the section.
They should institute a program where students will earn points for each event they attend and have the opportunity to collect rewards as they hit designated point thresholds.
I gradutated in 2011 and am still going to the games in the student section. You can definitely tell the difference between now and only a couple of years ago. It used to be that you had to stand sideways to fit in your seat, but now there is plenty of room for everyone. Get this: I remember the student section being more packed in 2008 than this year. How does that happen? IIRC, they just expanded the student section in the last year or so, but it should have stayed full with the way that we were packing it in 2007-2010.
they've made the seats wider since 2008
They said they were going to do this, but I thought they scrapped this plan because it would have reduced the capacity too much.
I know that the number of seats on my row in Section 20 hasn't changed since I started going to games in the 1970s, but I guess I don't know about the student section.
They kept saying they were going to do it, but never got around to it as far as I can tell. Certainly no more space in my section (I'm third from the end of my section, and still 2 seats on the other side of me). I'm not complaining. Seemed crazy to add all those seats in luxury boxes, then reduce your capacity by cutting out other seats. We want mmmooooorrrreeee!!
rich rod happened...
Make the students pay full price for the tickets. Then at the end of the season they get a refund for every game they attended and made it in before the end of the first quarter
Yeah, because students have so much extra money sitting around. I remember when I was a student it was so hard to find people to give interest free loans to.
Because, at the student price, they were just affordable for me. No way I would have been able to pay for full price tickets upfront and I worked on average two jobs during undergrad.
There is a difference in the price of a student ticket price and the full price of a ticket that I would guess is substantial enough for a cash strapped student to justify one and not the other.
This is my first year with old people seats: $600 for a one time victors club donation, $800'ish for two tickets for my wife and I comes out to ~$1400. My last season as a student ticket holder was $400 for two tickets for my wife and I. I don't believe most students have an extra $1000 lying around when it comes to ticket application time.
I have only missed one game in my entire college experience including undergrad and grad at two universities. The game I missed was the UMass game. I missed it to attend my cousin's wedding in Bay City.
Um, probably not a valid comparison because the students would not have to pay to join the Victors Club. The comparable delta in your example would be $400ish. Granted that could still be a deterent, but you've overstated the case.
Even still, I don't believe most students have an extra $200 sitting around in March. You could add in the required annual PSL into the price for an old person ticket. That goes to an extra $300 per season ticket.
I'm not familiar with the current economics but back in the day a student could turn a decent profit by buying the tickets and then reselling the ones for the big games.
Personally, I didn't like going to the games (could get a better view via TV in the old days) but always got the student tickets anyways and would give most of them away free to friends as favors. In fact, there's probably still a few of my classmates out there who still owe me favors although damn if I can remember who.
Make every game a night game.
Trim the student section, and prioritize who has first right among upperclassmen to buy season tickets based on that student's previous attendance records so no student who truly wants tickets is unable to get them.
Edit: Yeah, what Diabeetus said. General admission will also encourage students to come early in order to get better seats.
This. I would only add that freshman not be the ones who are necessarily left out but rather we retroactively punish people who had shitty attendance by making them miss out on tickets, presuming we have things like that on record. If not, we should shart keeping track...
Yeah, my thought, though not fully explained, was that all freshman would be given the opportunity to buy season tickets if they want to.
Additionally, I might even suggest that anyone who did not purchase season tickets the previous year is given an opporunity to buy them if they choose. This would solve the issue of studying abroad for a semester, etc. After all, the problem is not with students who choose not to buy season tickets, it's with those who buy them, but don't show up.
Devin Gardner wants (NEEDS!) you there on time on Saturday!
Also, give credit to the students for 100% attendance in the two basketball games that were televised this week. The non-student sections were, I don't know, 33% full? That's how it looked on TV.
...and other sports are much easier to deal with for a student. Football games are so long these days with all the TV timeouts and when you add in the tailgating, it ends up sucking away nearly an entire day. Even the getting to the football stadium is more time consuming because of all the added traffic.
Strongly disagree there. First, for students, traffic isn't an issue. Second, football games are only played on Saturdays, and only 6-8 times a year, often in beautiful fall weather. Basketball games are often in the middle of the week and are played during the winter when it can be brutally cold coming to and from the arena. There is a reason why virtually every school in the country - even "basketball schools" - draws larger crowds for football than basketball.
You really hated going to football games, huh? Good to have that perspective represented here, I guess.
a Michigan thing. MSU's student section has been 10 to 15 rows empty since the OSU game.
I've seen lots of empty spaces at PSU, Wisconsin even OSU games.
Lets get rid of classes for students at the university as well. Those are so outdated.
Do you have any evidence at all to support this post, or is it just your introduction to the self published thesis on the breakup of the moral fabric of college football?
As a student who is paying my for my own tuition, for my own rent, for my own groceries, and for my own tickets I have to frown upon your broad, sweeping generalizations. Some of aren't spoiled. Some of us appreciate our seats that we would otherwise have no way in hell of affording. Some of us still care about UM Football.
This post should be case study for the lack of basic logic and use of fallacious arguments aka the cable news effect.
The student sections help separate college football from professional football. At my school, we take up about 1/6 of the stadium. Yes, there are empty seats. Yes, people don't always seem interested in the game. People show up late. A lot don't show up because they partied too hard the night before or just like tailgating. Still, the students as a collective group produce the majority of the energy found from the crowd, and it's not even close.
Your generalization of this younger generation is extremely unfair. From the group I associate with, like 4 out of every 5 are paying their own way through school. That includes tuition, books, rent, groceries, and everything else. Not everybody likes football nowadays, but they also didn't back whenever the hell you were in college either. It's not because they're too good for it, they just have other interests.
There are empty seats everywhere, but there's still a ton of students, no matter what school, that truly love their school and football. "People who actually appreciate the seats"? Where are all of the allumni when it's 100+ degrees outside or 40 and pouring rain in the middle of a blowout?
"The student sections help separate college football from professional football."
True, student involvment is part of what seperates college football from the pros...but as the college game nudges it's way closer to the pro game, then is it really any surprise that students are less interested?
It's probably hopeless to dream of turning back the clock, but some questions worth considering are whether or not the games should all be televised? Should so much be invested in the stadiums? Should the players be continually indulged with fancy, trendy uniforms and OTT private study centers? And so on...
In a sense, all of us ravenous alumni have stolen the game from the kids for our own purposes. Is it any surprise that they are less interested?
Don't make student tickets get validated to be used by non students.
It would. But butts would be in the seats.
...when I was a student at least, the vast majority of ticket resales were to other students. Seemed like every week that somebody was having a friends from another school or a little brother visiting.
Columbus trucker-type butts. This is our concern, Dude.
That would probably help too
I'm a junior and I can gladly say that the core of my seating group has not missed a second of a game in almost three full seasons now. Unfortunately we have some less dedicated members as well. Luckily they almost always sell their tickets to another student rather than just letting them go to waste.
As a student I would LOVE if they switched to general admission and/or shrunk the student section. I have no problem getting to every game 15-25 minutes early. I'd love to be able to sit closer to the 50 rather than over in 32 (damn you ticket office, I'm a junior with a ton of credits). General admission works well for basketball, lets make it work for football.
Either that or make some type of priority points system amongst students while trimming the size. Base it off of %of games attended or something similar. Give bonus points for the spring game. That way the fans that are truly the most dedicated will get the best seats.
I don't know how it works at UM, but we do general admission for the student section where I go. My buddies and I always get our group of tailgaters in the stadium at least 30 minutes early for every game. It works because I, like many others, wouldn't be in such a rush if I already knew exactly where I was sitting.
Jaded paranoia alert! Could DB be laying the foundation for reduced student allotment? Read as: increase ticket revenue.
As an OOS grad, who loves football, it's getting harder for me to defend the kids. Tailgating/pre-gaming was fun, but at the end of the day, it was FOOTBALL Saturday. For me, it was about the game. Now, I understood that football games brought a more diverse crowd (than say hockey). I'd always see way too drunk frat kids wearing lacrosse pennies and those neon sunglasses, looking to get into fights with other kids, who were just trying to watch the game. There were the sorority girl types who would just come to get their picture taken. It was annoying, but I accepted that as an aspect of being in a large diverse student body. Football games are a gathering of everybody.
I don't know how things changed. Did a couple of lean years make other aspects of the football saturday experience take precedence? Did we lose some of that old culture and tradition that we all seem to value so greatly? I'm not on campus anymore, and I can't make these observations anymore. I'd hope that Brandon and others do whatever it takes to make the stadium a better environment because what's important is the game.
How would you do that exactly? I don't think it would be as easy as it seems.
$200/season is a very low price to pay to have the option to go to every home game, even if you don't use it. Plus for the many (not all) students who aren't paying their own way, this is a rounding error to put on their parents tab next to tuition/rent and living expenses.
Hell we know that ND/MSU/OSU games can cost that much per game. Why wouldn't you buy them?
I recently graduated and live in Chicago and I had my little sister who is still a student find a pair of kids who weren't going to buy them get them for me. So I bought the whole season and will only make it to 3 games this year. I don't bother with the hassle of reselling the others, because even without doing that it is still cheaper than stubhub-ing the big games that I want to go to.
Even when a student knows they only want to go to a big game or two, no one wants to be the person at the pregame: "hey everybody let's go" Reply: "I can't I didn't buy tickets this year".
(1) Make the face value equivalent to other sections (ex. annual seat donation charges/whatever)
(2) Eliminate validation charges
(3) Offer more single game tickets and set the face values TO THE MARKET (hint: not $65 UMASS & $75 MSU).
(4) I like the idea of losing priviledge to buy if you didn't attend 6 or 7 out of 8 the previous season
(5) General admission would help
Everybody says "trim the student section" - the size of the student section is based entirely on how many students buy season tickets, and everyone who has the cash is guaranteed a student ticket.
How would you fairly assign priority for limited seats? I'd have been screwed - I went to only one game (the Horror) in 2007 because I was on a semester off in Australia. I bought the tix to keep my priority and so my sister could get some of her friends who didn't want season tix in.
But I was otherwise a diehard and went to every home game from 2004-8, always got in before kickoff, and stayed till the final whistle (even for NW 2008, which was my last game as a student - lucky me eh?)
My suggestion: offer a ticket buyback - any student not going can turn in their ticket at least 5 days in advance for say 75% of face value. The turned in tix then go on sale. Public can buy them at full price or students can get them at the student rate.
Honestly the biggest problem is probably that student tickets can only be bought as a full season. Offering single game tickets or small packages would yield a smaller student section but it would be full. Priority for big games would be given for students who had attended the most games.
There's not going to be a perfect solution. If the primary casulaties to a system based on tracking attendance and shrinking the student section are people who miss a semster abroad, I'd say those would fall squarely under the rubric of acceptable losses.
Also, carrots and sticks related to monetary punishment are only going to affect those students who are paying their own way and/or don't have extra money to burn. Students whose parents take care of everything anyway - and there's a damn sizeable percentage of them - aren't going to give a shit.
There wasn't even this problem in the Rich Rod years! The only games I remember that the student section wasn't completely full were mac games and the 2009 penn state game which was rainy and miserable, and those were only a few empty rows at the top. Those few have turned into about ten.
But good lord I didn't know they student section had 22,000 tickets! When did it get that big? Last I remember it was 18,000!
Also something has been said about lack of coordination. Is it a possibility to do something like a midnight yell like texas a&m does?
How would yelling at the diag the night before get people to go to the games?
That part had nothing to do with getting people to go. It had to do with the coordination problem.
as a recent grad, i was embarressed when i saw the game on saturday and the top of the student section was empty. some of those students must be incredibly spoiled and not realize what they have in those tickets.
When you consider that 42% of the freshman class is comprised of kids whose parents are paying that gigantic out-of-state tuition bill, you're guaranteed to have a large number of them from extremely comfortable homes who've never had to go without a single shiny new thing in their entire lives. UM has never been a low-cost institution relative to other schools, but I have to believe that the percentage of students who are from truly middle-income or working class financial backgrounds is lower than it's been for many decades. Back in the '70s a far lower percentage of students owned cars, and plenty of those were 10-year-old beaters. When I'm on campus these days for client meetings I'm amazed at the number of late-model BMWs, Mercedes, Range Rovers, and similarly upscale American models parked on campus side streets.
It is true that U-M has an over-representation of students from high-income families. That's been true for a long while.
They are not all from Out-of-State.
It's not clear to me that these are the students who buy season tickets, or don't show up to games, or who display loutish, spoiled, entitled behavior. They ARE probably driving the nicer cars you are seeing, but beyond that it's speculation.
I get uncomfortable with sweeping generalizations (unless they're about those classless morons who root for OSU).
I'm sure that all of the in-state students from bloomfield hills, rochester hills, gross pointe, etc. are penny-pinching too. Sheesh. Do you have any information that suggests wage of parents correlates with ones ability to be a passionate college football fan and attend games?
I think you misunderstand me. Which is east enough to do, clarity has never been my strong suit.
I was making a couple of points. One, we shouldn't pin the "rich kid" label on nonresidents alone. From a sheer factual standpoint, that's not true and it bugged me to let that assumption stand.
But more important to the discussion, my other point: don't assume the student fans who are bailing are generally the wealthy/spoiled/entitled ones. That's a leap.
my msu ticket was ripped, not scanned, if that means anything.
Reduce the student section by 50 percent. Raise the price of student tickets so only the students that really care will purchase. If that doesn't work then get rid of student tickets all together. There are plenty of Walmart wolverines that would buy them.
50% is way way to much.
Raising the cost of tickets will only make the problem worse.
Yes, lets just get rid of everything nice about college football while we are at it.
Until I see some evidence suggesting that collectively out of state students have decided to, in much greater proportions than before, stop caring about michigan football and to stop going to games, I have no reason to beleive that the apaprent malaise from students is unique to them. I don't know where this notion and the complete confidence in this statement is coming from.
Separetely, I think there should be a system that rewards attendance (and gives extra credit for showing up 15min or so before the game) not by credits as it is now. I don't see why a sophomore who attended every game as a freshman and was there early should have to get worse seats than a senior who goes to the two marquee games every year just because he had more credits. Seems like it would be an easy fix. That way kids sitting in the best seats are the passionate fans and the ones who want to show up late or only go to a couple games a year can sit in the 70th+ row.
Also, a punitive sytem should be put in place for those who missed a certain amount of games, where they are put on standby to get tickets in the event that the section is decreased in size. I don't think the solution would be to blindly prevent freshman to go to the games as many of them are passionate fans as well.
I think this is a good idea (assign seats by lifetime "attendance points"), but it doesn't really address the issue of empty seats. The people who buy tickets but don't show up probably don't care what seats they're not sitting in.
The point is just that it's probably MORE of a problem for them. Obviously this is anecdotal, but most of my in-state friends go to pretty much every game, whereas my out of state friends (most of whom are in frats/sororities) always tell me how they only went to the first game.
To be honest, as someone else mentioned, I think one big problem is that this year's junior and senior classes had to watch RR's teams get steamrolled during their freshman years and didn't get hooked.
Given Hoke's record at home, I think it's highly possible that this year's and last year's freshman classes end up showing up in greater numbers by the time they're seniors.
Ok, I will buy the argument that out-of-staters may contribute more, but I don't think there has been some systematic change in only their minds to do so. So, I think just looking at them doesn't really fix the issue of crappy attendance.
I actually do agree with the RR point and I think that the non-conference losses this year may have taken some fo the wind out of the sail from the momentum that was created at the end of last year with the sugar bowl victory. Not saying that this is legitimate (i attended every game ...even when we lost to toledo), but a possible explanation.
So we've reached the point now where players (like Devin Gardner) have to release videos begging the students to show up on time? How sad is that?
Our seats are on the sideline across from the student section. It was another embarassing view of empty seats in the student section. When I mentioned it to my wife and brother-in-law (both alum - I am not) there was more excuses. Each week it's been, the game is too early, it's homecoming, they're still drinking.....
I suggested shrinking the student section which was an unpopular suggestion.
This was apparently our 243rd consecutive game with more than 100,000 people. The attendance last week was 112,510 with 11,000 no shows (in the student section) in a stadium that holds 109,901.
I for one will be there with my wife, 4 kids and other family because I can think of absolutley no better place to be on a Saturday.
It's simple. Cut the overall student allotment to no more than 15,000 for 2013. It appears that number will be more than sufficient to accommodate the students who actually want to go to the game to watch it. Freeing up the additional 7K for non-students will bring in more revenue for the AD dept.
In addition, keep track of attendance and arrival time for 2013. If students are still continuing to show up late or not at all, cut back the student section to 11,000 for 2014.
I'd be curious to know what the student allotment was back in the '70s when I was in school.
How do you assign the limited seats? Right now everyone who wants one is guaranteed a student ticket.
And how do you ensure that the people you sell the tickets to actually show up? If you use the current priority system (credits) you'll end up with a smaller section with the same percentage of no shows. - not really a food fix.
Definitely not for all sports. There used to be huge lines to get a student season ticket for the Fab Five basketball years. It wasn't unlimited. And wasn't there some football years where students got partial season ticket packages? I thought it right around the time some of them were moved to the South endzone too. Other schools give students partial ticket packages too.
I don't really remeber re: ticket packages, although there were definitely some students in the end zone while I was in school. Basketball was terrible so no lines involved (I do still kick myself for not accepting the free tickets (and pizza, I think) being offerred for going to what eventually turned into a home upset of Duke).
I seem to recall the AD making something of a big deal about that being a special thing about Michigan football, namely that no matter how many other people wanted to get in at full price, they were committed to guaranteeing a student season ticket for any student who wanted one. Wasn't there a fight over whether or not that privilege should apply to UM Flint and Dearborn students (I think some of them were denied in those south end zone years)? It would be a shame if we ended that tradition over some lazy no-shows.
Anyway even the huge lines thing wouldn't necessarily help. Getting motivated to stand in line once in the springtime is not the same as actually being motivated to going to all the home games.
I was a student basketball ticket holder last year. Halfway through the season, by the Maize Rage gate, I noticed a crate full of season tickets that were yet to be picked up and used by students. It was unbelievable. I figure that students just buy tickets in the spring as a reflex because that is what you're supposed to do. I'm an out of state grad student, I've bought season tickets every year I've been here, I hate Michigan State and the state of Ohio (I don't know how this actually happened, it just did) and have been to nearly every football game. If you care enough to go, you will. If not, there isn't much you can do to change their behavior. Certainly this stupid H.A.I.L program won't do much at all.
Sit-on-your-hands alumni: not quieter than empty seats.
"Oh my gawd! Is that Dollar Dave Brandon's music?"
...i promise you, this will continue to happen, and all over the stadium.
mr. brandon, meet the bubble.
Some of you might tag it "trolling" but I suspect that the state of football in America is more precarious than many realize at the moment. Aside from diminishing interest amongst young fans, the concussion issue is going to only get bigger.
Sounds crazy, but in another 20 years people might actually be wondering how such a popular sport diminished & vanished like some old dinosaurs.
Students should receive a voucher instead of a ticket. Voucher is redeemable at a booth at the gate 60-15 min before kickoff for GA seating. After that, unredeemed are useless and ath dept sells $5 GA tickets in equal portion to unredeemed voucher #.
#1 late/no shows get hosed
#2 AD gets voucher AND some ticket revenue
#3 eager fans can get cheap tkt if GA exists
#4 scalper prices are reduced with substitute threat of $5 GA
#5 late/no shows discouraged from renewing the next season after getting hosed
#1 I'd be in the stadium before the late/no shows so I wouldn't get to see their shock and tantrums
Selling vouchers/discounted tickets would hurt revenues. If people KNOW that a certain amount of vouchers SHOULD be available, they will wait til before game time to buy those instead of donating / buying season ticket packs.
In order for people to pay full price they need to know that there is no cheap $5ish alternative.
There is a reason you never see late discounts. It messes with demand for the regular tickets. In econ terms, these $5 GA tix are a 'close substitute' and if a relatively equivalent good is much cheaper, people will flock to those and away from paying full price.
First, I'm sure the AD could utilize pricing software to determine equilibrium pricing. $5 was probably a bad example; could even sell above the student face price, especially for big games.
Second, the "close substitute" actually carries a risk premium that transfers cost to potential buyers. Such as if the tickets are sold so very close to kickoff, unsure of the #, and possibility of waiting line "investment" - just like the ropes at a club. The buyer also has GA in the student section to reduce the value for many attendees.
The smart folks at the Ross School can find a pure economic/brand solution.
Set up a market to let students sell tickets as they wish.....let them make a few bucks to offset the ungodly tuition. After graduation, when I was still near enough by, it was never a problem ....however that was long ago and in a different.....sorry.
MGoBlog could run it and have a secondary income stream.
I don't know if it will help attendence but I always liked it.
Definitely on board with the marshmallows! Don't remember TP.
112,510 for the NU game kind of a joke doesn't it? It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else. And I think the no-shows are definitely not confined to just students. I know the 2 seats next to us have been empty for several games this year and I'm pretty sure they're not sitting somewhere else.
Just about every team in every sport now a days does the announced attendance based off of:
tickets sold, media passes, security, ushers, concenssion workers, etc. The reason the 'bigger' games have a higher announced attendance is they generally have more media, security, etc. It isn't because the school/team sold more tickets.
I'm skeptical of attendance figures.
I was at the 1995 5-0 game against Purdue in a sleet/rain blizzard and there is no way that there were 103,721 people in a Michigan Stadium when it looked, at best, three quarters full...unless maybe 30,000 people were hiding in the bathroom all game long.
It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else.
There is no mystery here. Our attendance figures are a combination of tickets sold and invited guests. Some teams don't count the invitees, but every major sports team - college or pro - uses the "paid attendance" in its official attendance figures.
the problem is the prices, student tickets are too expensive here. at UF they are only $15, at 'Bama packeages are either $15 or $20. Its just crazy to charge as much as they do here. I mean, $205 for 6 home games is stupidly overpriced.
The tickets have been bought but are not being used. Price is not the issue.
Uh, everyone else pays 600 for the same tickets you're getting for 200. You can recoup that money by selling OSU or MSU and generally come out ahead which gets you the rest of the home games essentially free. I'm not seeing the problem.
People are taking tickets for granted - buying them and not using them - and your solution is that they should be cheaper? I'm not sure you're having the same conversation as the rest of the thread.
Like you guys care, but here we go.
One thing that needs to change is that they need to not have games over fall break. That will automatically make a lot of people miss the game because guess what, we want to go home!
Secondly, there are three reasons people miss games. 1) They are drunk (not acceptable). 2) They're girls and it's cold (lame). 3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).
Honestly I don't know how to solve it completely. One thing I know is that HAIL is freaking awful. One you can't use it in the stadium because there are too many people (Nice job Brandon) and all I need is another Maize shirt. Seriously it should determine where you get to sit and if you can get tickes next year. As a senior I would love the opportunity to buy tickets for next year without the stupid donation fee or something like that.
I know a lot of schools that do first come first serve and I think that is ok, but I think its risky. I think it should be if you get to the game on time you get your seats and if you show up late you get whatever is left.
I'm getting tired of the "too much work" excuse. Honestly, you can't take four or five hours on a Saturday to use the ticket you already bought?
I know people have a lot going on, I am no different, but to spend money and then not go because you have too much homework makes no sense. It seems to me like better time management during the week could solve this problem.
Hell, some Saturdays I actually woke up early, got work done and then went to the game. Tailgating or partying after aren't essential if you have "way too much to do." If you can't go, don't buy tickets. School just isn't THAT hard, it's really not.
try majoring in physics
Masters in Aerospace Engineering. Went to all of every home game while I was a student (and in the same country). Graduated summa cum laude. It can be done :P
Got my Ph. D. in Space Physics. Went to every game as a grad student. If you majored in physics, you should be smart enough to get your crap done and enjoy the thing you spent your hard earned money on.
try majoring in physics
It sounds pathetic to people who were students in the past, who did show up to games.
Guess what...we didn't have fall break. We survived. Even got home sometimes. I'm still not even sure what the point of fall break is or why it was started. Can't go a month and a half without a break? Please.
School work/studying - the University has gotten so much tougher over the last few years. Students studied (and partied) just as hard in the past, and made it to the games. Unless you can show students today do so much more school work (and actually do it) than students for decades before it, the point is moot.
3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).
I have a hard time buying this one. How many students really spend Saturday afternoons studying, outside of finals week? If we were talking about Sunday afternoon, OK, but my recollection from being in school here is that most people regarded Saturday as a day off from schoolwork and then got down to business on Sunday.
I'm now a grad student at NU, and before that I was at Brown. I've run into this pervasive sense held by undergrads that they are worked to the bone. It's absolutely bullshit. In neither of these places were students assigned as much work as I was as an undergrad, and I was very, very far from being a live-in-the-library type. At Brown and NU, at least, profs. assign less and less work because students seem to be less and less willing to do it.* And they still bitch about being swamped. Even if UM has always assigned more work - a notion I do not discount out of hand, seeing the coddling culture of elite private schools - I would still bet a great deal of money that you're not doing more work than UM undergraduates did 10, 20, or 30 years ago.
*Note that this is in part driven by the desire - particularly evident in un-tenured faculty - to keep class enrollment high and evaluations positive. There are costs to telling students: here's the work, fucking deal with it.
Reduce the capacity of the student section significantly and strategically. All student tickets are free (swipe MCard to get in). All seats are general admission which, if you do it right, will be filled well before the game because the supply of tickets has gone way down. For those that don't get into the game, put a big screen on the Diag to appease them.
Maybe we just triple the size of the band!
Let them fill up more of the student section. Plus they'll be much loader so don't have to worry about not hearing them across the way.
A passport to fine sporting, circa 1990, if you will. Ok no one on this board is going to get that one unless the lived in S. Quad in the 1980s/early 90s.
That's an interesting sociological question. From what I've read and heard about professional teams like the Pistons and the Wings, it's very typical for the seats closest to the court or rink (i.e., the most expensive) to have a high percentage of late arrivals and early departures, and I think many pro sports observers and journalists would say that so-called blue-collar fans in the cheaper seats are more passionate than the well-heeled swells who sit in the box seats and the suites. However, there's no way of knowing whether that applies to students at college events.
Many have offered suggestions revolving around reducing the cost of student tickets, but since all of the student allotment has been purchased, it's not apparent to me why people think that cost is at the root of the attendance issue.
One question that would be good to have an answer to is how many of the no-shows are actually watching the game at home or a sports bar or some other venue, and if so, why? Is it because of the high cost of concessions? The pain in the ass of taking a leak? Because they can go to Sportskeepers or wherever and drink without any hindrance while watching the game on a big screen?
Do what the airlines do, oversell and assigns seats at the gate. Once the student section is full, turn away any more that show up -- giving them their money back and a voucher for a nice bag of peanuts. Loyal customers get priority upgrades to better seats and faster admittance lines. Also, make them take off their shoes as they come in.
Geez, thought Brandon understood marketing and revenue maximization.
This strikes me as both the simplest and the most logical solution proposed here. So of the 22,000 students who bought season tickets this season, only 17,500 showed up for the MSU game, the most attractive game on the schedule this year.
So next year, sell 22,000 student season tickets but only allocate 17,500 seats to those 22,000 students. It would have to be general admission, of course. Every year you can re-allocate the size of the student section based on the largest student attendance at any game during the previous year.
You're not going to see a university do this. At some point, a kid would get turned away at the gate and it would be terrible PR. Brandon isn't just interested in revenue maximization. He is very interested in protecting and developing our "brand" as a school. That would be a bridge too far.
Wasn't really serious. Thought the part about making them take off their shoes and the voucher for the bag of peanuts might have tipped that off.
That aside, what is the point in developing the "brand"? Ultimately it is to maximize revenue. Maybe your point was an approach that maximizes revenue in the short run (such as above), could actually hurt brand recognition and long run revenue generation. In which case, I agree.
>That aside, what is the point in developing the "brand"?
> Ultimately it is to maximize revenue.
Go back and read Brandon's article again.
You mean the following article ( http://michigandaily.com/sports/neal-rothschild-just-call-him-dave-brand-it ): I realize just one opinion, but nonetheless.
It seems that more and more, Brandon is making a deal with the devil — earning millions more dollars for the Athletic Department at the expense of the vaunted tradition of Michigan athletics.
While you’re not exactly going to alienate your fan base by honoring former greats, there’s something off about this idea as well.
True tradition sprouts in a matter of years — decades. And it happens organically.
What Dave Brandon is trying to do is to manufacture a Michigan past and future all by himself. What’s happening is that the aura behind Michigan’s rich history is not being determined naturally, but rather, over a couple boardroom meetings.
Just like the Big Mac at McDonald’s or Anheuser-Busch’s Budweiser, Michigan has its own cash cow, and it’s the Block 'M' and all the tradition that comes with it.
What Brandon has to figure out is whether what he’s doing is more revolutionary, or, as I fear, just a mixture of money-grabbing, Block-'M' stamping moves to build Michigan’s bottom line like he’s still selling pizzas.
Every ticket is scanned and tracked. The AD know which student ticket was validated for re-sale, which ticket went unused and for which game(s). There continues to be a waiting list to be eligible for tickets. There is an annual $25 fee charged to remain on this list. The University is making money either way. Also, since the tickets were already paid for, the University can't force someone to use their ticket after it has been purchased. They can regulate how it is used (resold) but they are powerless if you chose to wallpaper your bathroom with the unused tickets.
The main issue here is our legacy of having the largest crowd viewing a football game anywhere in america. This is about maintaining the streak of over 100,000 in attendance each home game. With growing apathy from students this is at risk. It is also better for TV viewers (regardless of which network) to see a packed house. As more games are televised, this also affects recruiting. Who wants to go to a school where the students don't even show up to the game?
Brandon needs to trim the student section. Additonally, did you know that sutdents from U of M Dearborn and U of M Flint are eligible to purchase football tickets? Those on the waiting list should come before students at a campus that is not even considered a satellite campus. Now get of my effing lawn.
I am in support of doing something to correct the problem, but I want to hear how ppl will trim it. As I mentionned below, PSU tried to trim it, but they were not able to do so w/o excluding die hard fans the ability to buy tix.
As both an undergrad and a grad student one thing that really bothers me is the preferential seating for graduate students. Why as a first yr law student should you be in the front few rows? In addition, in my grad school, there are a lot of state ppl as well as other schools represented. Besides from the CMUs, Hope Colleges, and unsucessful D1 programs of the nation, most of my grad school classmates don't care as much about the games. Although grad students may not buy tix at all if they aren't in the front, isn't that enough of a reason not to allow them to buy tix? With that said, I noticed in undergrad the wasted sorority girls were less likely to go to games compared to all the ppl i mentioned above. I also noticed that some of my international student friends don't care and don't know what is going on at the game if they even show up.
So where does it leaves us? We can't discriminate people based on the reasons I listed. I'm afraid the HAIL program could be our only option. Maybe we can see if more people are more inclined. I think a limit on the # of students who can buy tix is a bad idea also. As a PA resident, my friends from high school stressed about whether or not they would be eligible to buy tix for the upcoming years. If we move towards a MCard only system of tix like the bball one that exists now, I think the Athletic department will be able to provide more data and make a better decision than us guessing.
Since when did this change, this year? A year ago, new grad students got treated ~like freshman and those continuing on from ugrad got to keep their priority.
Although there seems to be somewhat of a nationwide trend aspect to students not showing up, Brandon hasn't exactly help things:
1 He has diminished the game time experience by playing minor league baseballesque music through the game. Students don't want to listen to Thunderstruck, Iron Man, or other RAWK music 50 times a game.
2 The university has been complacent in the cops cracking down on tailgates near the stadium, so students are being pushed into now pregaming/tailgating further and further from the stadium. Students have always partied away from the stadium but used to kind of drift towards houses on State and Hoover as it got closer to game time but the AAPD has pretty much ended that so when students do finally decide to go the game they find themselves on Church, East U, or Oakland.
Additionally, I think more people are fans of college football in general now, and the television experience always you to flip between games and recieve updates from other games. I hate how scores from around the country are only presented once or twice at Michigan Stadium.
I would love to believe #1 is true, but every time we play some cheesy RAWK song, it seems like the students get more into it than anyone else - even for songs (like "Don't Stop Believing") that came out before they were born.
Of the blue hair going all gangnam style?
Students "get more into" pretty much everything at the game more than anyone else, it doesn't mean they prefer to listen to crap like Welcome to the Jungle.
This was my last season as a Student Football Season Ticket holder. I enrolled in 2007 and got to experience the ups-and-downs of the Final Lloyd Carr year, made it to EVERY home game (save for Minnesota as I moved off campus that weekend), proceeded to make it to 90% of the RR era games, and never once did I lose interest. The only thing I am losing interest in are the caliber of students Michigan has in the student section. The previous 4 years I met a ton of people I will forever call friends; this year however- tons of bratty "upper classmen" Who act like Fresh-tards. They have no appreciation for the Big House, nor do they actually care about the school.
I am going to miss next season when I will no longer have Student Season Tickets;
-Still need to find out how to apply for Alumni tickets and at least get in the wait to receive them
This may be selfish, but I hope some of these students who have tickets plan on selling a bunch next year as I plan on going to all the home games and one love an opportunity to still sit in the student section even if I will no longer be a student.
Is it always the same 3,500 students? No
When looking at a problem like this you have to identify why a student does not show up at all. They went home for the weekend, lazy (didn't want to spend time trying to sell a ticket), they are hungover, or maybe they just don't care about football that much. Yes, there may be many other cases, but those have to be near the top of the list. We shouldn't attack the students because they aren't perfect fans showing up 30 minutes before gametime. I agree somewhat with RickH's idea (Not free tickets, but no seating). If the students had a ticket with no section, row or seat number they may feel more incentive to show up early in order to secure the early seats. The downfall to this is that students who plan to show up late might not show up at all if they don't have an assigned seat. How you would counteract that would take some effort on part of the AD think tank.
One thing that has changed since I was there is that the lock on start times is now 12:00 or 3:30.
Most of our games started at 1:00. This turned out to be an ideal start time. It gave enough time to do some tailgating before you headed off to wait in line for the game. You were done in enough time to get back and hang out or study a little bit before dinner, then go out.
12:00 is a pretty harsh start time if you want to do any tailgating or pre-gaming. That's half the fun of being in college. 3:30 games mean a late dinner and not much time if you need to study and still want to go out.
This is not an excuse . . . you should not get tickets if you are not comitted to going, but it is one more thing that throws up a hurdle against the path of least resistence.
Do it like Alabama. Don't do assigned tickets, just general admission for the student section. Additionally make it so that if you miss a certain number of kickoffs/games then you cannot buy tickets the next year, period. Students are at the game at least an hour early at Bryant Denny, maybe we should follow their lead.
It'a a good time to be a student. Why bother to buy a season ticket? So many tickets go unused, it has to be easy to get them for little or no money.
I'm sorry but Dave Brandon must by lying. I have heard over and over here on the board that the students are merely squeezing into the lower section of the bowl and that in actuality, they are all there and it is merely an optical illusion we are seeing.
Why would Brandon make up a story like this?
RIch Rod era had an effect on the student body. Half of us had at least one year of Rich Rod, and at those pregames the marginal benefit of seeing the kick for a game we would probably lose was much lower than that of one more drink. Not factoring in that one more drink would help to erase the memory of deplorable secondary. Obviously, that doesn't excuse what's going on now or even then, but when your pregame attitude of freshmen and sophomore year is that the kickoff is less important than the preparty because of the quality of the product being put forth, then those things may be perservere through many years.
Have two allotments per year. After the first 4 home games, students who haven't come on time are ineligible to buy the next four. That will effectively eliminate all late/non-attending students from the Ohio game for home years, as well as keep accountability. All student tickets that come open are sold as packages to fans on the general wait list.
If timing is an issue, make the decision on the first 2-3 games for the final 4 to allow for an extra couple weeks or month for calculating and purchasing.
If the issue is getting students to pay twice, have them pay for the season upfront and automatically get kicked out of the system and get 75% refund at the half (so Brandon makes a little more) and second half season tix go to resale for the defunct student seats.
The announced attendance is based on SALES + every additional body inside the stadium. How else can you get 112k+ in a stadium that holds 109k and has empty seats??
There are more student seats than students that WANT to be there.
The rising cost of tickets and the "right" to purchase them continues to go up.
When supply is larger than the demand, the supply is reduced. (Shrink the student section).
That is a no-brainer. Drop the student section by 3,000 in 2013 and if the trend continues, drop it by another 2,000 or more in 2014. If it fills continuosly in 2013, add 1,000 in 2014.
If the AD makes more tickets available to the general public as season tickets, they are GUARANTEED to be sold.(more money and no empty seats).
Again a no-brainer. BUT I think the trend is growing across the B1G except Nebraska that the cost of the PSD + plus the cost of the tickets is reaching a breaking point. $1,630 for two seats to six games, where two of them are Air Force and UMass and no significant OOC game; compared to 2011 when there were eight home games that included ND, Nebraska and OSU for the same price is very telling.
With ND going away and no significant OOC games and a substantial price increase coming soon, the average fan is getting squeezed pretty hard. At $135 per seat per game and half of the games are against lower MAC and bottom of the B1G competition plus food and parking, watching from the comfort of my couch is starting to look better.
My family has had seats at Michigan games since 1956 and this is the first time I have considered not renewing my season tickets. That extra $2,000+ a year toward retirement seems like a good idea, especially with the global economy looking like...
Maybe a carrot would work better than a stick. Charge a bit more for the tickets, and refund the extra money to those students who make it to every game, or enter the students who've attended every game in a lottery to win ipods or something.
When I was there it was hard to go in with the all wonderful stuff to do. Add in crazy long seating lines for that section...
I love U of M football, so I was there early and half sober to make sure I was in my seat.
So you are a junior and you get up, and the frats have tables and lawn games, and the cute guys/girls are there, and there is that thing at that lot and it is really cool, and you mean to go in, but now it is 11:30, so maybe I will wait for the seating line to go down, and I really have to get some food so I don't puke and look bad in front of that cite guy/girl, and wow, we scored, and gosh, this game it all tied up.