So we've reached the point now where players (like Devin Gardner) have to release videos begging the students to show up on time? How sad is that?
Dave Brandon says students actually aren't showing up
Our seats are on the sideline across from the student section. It was another embarassing view of empty seats in the student section. When I mentioned it to my wife and brother-in-law (both alum - I am not) there was more excuses. Each week it's been, the game is too early, it's homecoming, they're still drinking.....
I suggested shrinking the student section which was an unpopular suggestion.
This was apparently our 243rd consecutive game with more than 100,000 people. The attendance last week was 112,510 with 11,000 no shows (in the student section) in a stadium that holds 109,901.
I for one will be there with my wife, 4 kids and other family because I can think of absolutley no better place to be on a Saturday.
It's simple. Cut the overall student allotment to no more than 15,000 for 2013. It appears that number will be more than sufficient to accommodate the students who actually want to go to the game to watch it. Freeing up the additional 7K for non-students will bring in more revenue for the AD dept.
In addition, keep track of attendance and arrival time for 2013. If students are still continuing to show up late or not at all, cut back the student section to 11,000 for 2014.
I'd be curious to know what the student allotment was back in the '70s when I was in school.
How do you assign the limited seats? Right now everyone who wants one is guaranteed a student ticket.
And how do you ensure that the people you sell the tickets to actually show up? If you use the current priority system (credits) you'll end up with a smaller section with the same percentage of no shows. - not really a food fix.
Definitely not for all sports. There used to be huge lines to get a student season ticket for the Fab Five basketball years. It wasn't unlimited. And wasn't there some football years where students got partial season ticket packages? I thought it right around the time some of them were moved to the South endzone too. Other schools give students partial ticket packages too.
I don't really remeber re: ticket packages, although there were definitely some students in the end zone while I was in school. Basketball was terrible so no lines involved (I do still kick myself for not accepting the free tickets (and pizza, I think) being offerred for going to what eventually turned into a home upset of Duke).
I seem to recall the AD making something of a big deal about that being a special thing about Michigan football, namely that no matter how many other people wanted to get in at full price, they were committed to guaranteeing a student season ticket for any student who wanted one. Wasn't there a fight over whether or not that privilege should apply to UM Flint and Dearborn students (I think some of them were denied in those south end zone years)? It would be a shame if we ended that tradition over some lazy no-shows.
Anyway even the huge lines thing wouldn't necessarily help. Getting motivated to stand in line once in the springtime is not the same as actually being motivated to going to all the home games.
I was a student basketball ticket holder last year. Halfway through the season, by the Maize Rage gate, I noticed a crate full of season tickets that were yet to be picked up and used by students. It was unbelievable. I figure that students just buy tickets in the spring as a reflex because that is what you're supposed to do. I'm an out of state grad student, I've bought season tickets every year I've been here, I hate Michigan State and the state of Ohio (I don't know how this actually happened, it just did) and have been to nearly every football game. If you care enough to go, you will. If not, there isn't much you can do to change their behavior. Certainly this stupid H.A.I.L program won't do much at all.
Sit-on-your-hands alumni: not quieter than empty seats.
"Oh my gawd! Is that Dollar Dave Brandon's music?"
...i promise you, this will continue to happen, and all over the stadium.
mr. brandon, meet the bubble.
Some of you might tag it "trolling" but I suspect that the state of football in America is more precarious than many realize at the moment. Aside from diminishing interest amongst young fans, the concussion issue is going to only get bigger.
Sounds crazy, but in another 20 years people might actually be wondering how such a popular sport diminished & vanished like some old dinosaurs.
Students should receive a voucher instead of a ticket. Voucher is redeemable at a booth at the gate 60-15 min before kickoff for GA seating. After that, unredeemed are useless and ath dept sells $5 GA tickets in equal portion to unredeemed voucher #.
#1 late/no shows get hosed
#2 AD gets voucher AND some ticket revenue
#3 eager fans can get cheap tkt if GA exists
#4 scalper prices are reduced with substitute threat of $5 GA
#5 late/no shows discouraged from renewing the next season after getting hosed
#1 I'd be in the stadium before the late/no shows so I wouldn't get to see their shock and tantrums
Selling vouchers/discounted tickets would hurt revenues. If people KNOW that a certain amount of vouchers SHOULD be available, they will wait til before game time to buy those instead of donating / buying season ticket packs.
In order for people to pay full price they need to know that there is no cheap $5ish alternative.
There is a reason you never see late discounts. It messes with demand for the regular tickets. In econ terms, these $5 GA tix are a 'close substitute' and if a relatively equivalent good is much cheaper, people will flock to those and away from paying full price.
First, I'm sure the AD could utilize pricing software to determine equilibrium pricing. $5 was probably a bad example; could even sell above the student face price, especially for big games.
Second, the "close substitute" actually carries a risk premium that transfers cost to potential buyers. Such as if the tickets are sold so very close to kickoff, unsure of the #, and possibility of waiting line "investment" - just like the ropes at a club. The buyer also has GA in the student section to reduce the value for many attendees.
The smart folks at the Ross School can find a pure economic/brand solution.
Set up a market to let students sell tickets as they wish.....let them make a few bucks to offset the ungodly tuition. After graduation, when I was still near enough by, it was never a problem ....however that was long ago and in a different.....sorry.
MGoBlog could run it and have a secondary income stream.
I don't know if it will help attendence but I always liked it.
Definitely on board with the marshmallows! Don't remember TP.
112,510 for the NU game kind of a joke doesn't it? It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else. And I think the no-shows are definitely not confined to just students. I know the 2 seats next to us have been empty for several games this year and I'm pretty sure they're not sitting somewhere else.
Just about every team in every sport now a days does the announced attendance based off of:
tickets sold, media passes, security, ushers, concenssion workers, etc. The reason the 'bigger' games have a higher announced attendance is they generally have more media, security, etc. It isn't because the school/team sold more tickets.
I'm skeptical of attendance figures.
I was at the 1995 5-0 game against Purdue in a sleet/rain blizzard and there is no way that there were 103,721 people in a Michigan Stadium when it looked, at best, three quarters full...unless maybe 30,000 people were hiding in the bathroom all game long.
It supports my belief that these announced figures during the game are not based on actual people in the stadium, but something else.
There is no mystery here. Our attendance figures are a combination of tickets sold and invited guests. Some teams don't count the invitees, but every major sports team - college or pro - uses the "paid attendance" in its official attendance figures.
the problem is the prices, student tickets are too expensive here. at UF they are only $15, at 'Bama packeages are either $15 or $20. Its just crazy to charge as much as they do here. I mean, $205 for 6 home games is stupidly overpriced.
The tickets have been bought but are not being used. Price is not the issue.
Uh, everyone else pays 600 for the same tickets you're getting for 200. You can recoup that money by selling OSU or MSU and generally come out ahead which gets you the rest of the home games essentially free. I'm not seeing the problem.
People are taking tickets for granted - buying them and not using them - and your solution is that they should be cheaper? I'm not sure you're having the same conversation as the rest of the thread.
Like you guys care, but here we go.
One thing that needs to change is that they need to not have games over fall break. That will automatically make a lot of people miss the game because guess what, we want to go home!
Secondly, there are three reasons people miss games. 1) They are drunk (not acceptable). 2) They're girls and it's cold (lame). 3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).
Honestly I don't know how to solve it completely. One thing I know is that HAIL is freaking awful. One you can't use it in the stadium because there are too many people (Nice job Brandon) and all I need is another Maize shirt. Seriously it should determine where you get to sit and if you can get tickes next year. As a senior I would love the opportunity to buy tickets for next year without the stupid donation fee or something like that.
I know a lot of schools that do first come first serve and I think that is ok, but I think its risky. I think it should be if you get to the game on time you get your seats and if you show up late you get whatever is left.
I'm getting tired of the "too much work" excuse. Honestly, you can't take four or five hours on a Saturday to use the ticket you already bought?
I know people have a lot going on, I am no different, but to spend money and then not go because you have too much homework makes no sense. It seems to me like better time management during the week could solve this problem.
Hell, some Saturdays I actually woke up early, got work done and then went to the game. Tailgating or partying after aren't essential if you have "way too much to do." If you can't go, don't buy tickets. School just isn't THAT hard, it's really not.
try majoring in physics
Masters in Aerospace Engineering. Went to all of every home game while I was a student (and in the same country). Graduated summa cum laude. It can be done :P
Got my Ph. D. in Space Physics. Went to every game as a grad student. If you majored in physics, you should be smart enough to get your crap done and enjoy the thing you spent your hard earned money on.
try majoring in physics
It sounds pathetic to people who were students in the past, who did show up to games.
Guess what...we didn't have fall break. We survived. Even got home sometimes. I'm still not even sure what the point of fall break is or why it was started. Can't go a month and a half without a break? Please.
School work/studying - the University has gotten so much tougher over the last few years. Students studied (and partied) just as hard in the past, and made it to the games. Unless you can show students today do so much more school work (and actually do it) than students for decades before it, the point is moot.
3) We have an absoutely ridiculous amount of work and studying to do (absolutely legitimate).
I have a hard time buying this one. How many students really spend Saturday afternoons studying, outside of finals week? If we were talking about Sunday afternoon, OK, but my recollection from being in school here is that most people regarded Saturday as a day off from schoolwork and then got down to business on Sunday.
I'm now a grad student at NU, and before that I was at Brown. I've run into this pervasive sense held by undergrads that they are worked to the bone. It's absolutely bullshit. In neither of these places were students assigned as much work as I was as an undergrad, and I was very, very far from being a live-in-the-library type. At Brown and NU, at least, profs. assign less and less work because students seem to be less and less willing to do it.* And they still bitch about being swamped. Even if UM has always assigned more work - a notion I do not discount out of hand, seeing the coddling culture of elite private schools - I would still bet a great deal of money that you're not doing more work than UM undergraduates did 10, 20, or 30 years ago.
*Note that this is in part driven by the desire - particularly evident in un-tenured faculty - to keep class enrollment high and evaluations positive. There are costs to telling students: here's the work, fucking deal with it.
Reduce the capacity of the student section significantly and strategically. All student tickets are free (swipe MCard to get in). All seats are general admission which, if you do it right, will be filled well before the game because the supply of tickets has gone way down. For those that don't get into the game, put a big screen on the Diag to appease them.
Maybe we just triple the size of the band!
Let them fill up more of the student section. Plus they'll be much loader so don't have to worry about not hearing them across the way.
A passport to fine sporting, circa 1990, if you will. Ok no one on this board is going to get that one unless the lived in S. Quad in the 1980s/early 90s.
That's an interesting sociological question. From what I've read and heard about professional teams like the Pistons and the Wings, it's very typical for the seats closest to the court or rink (i.e., the most expensive) to have a high percentage of late arrivals and early departures, and I think many pro sports observers and journalists would say that so-called blue-collar fans in the cheaper seats are more passionate than the well-heeled swells who sit in the box seats and the suites. However, there's no way of knowing whether that applies to students at college events.
Many have offered suggestions revolving around reducing the cost of student tickets, but since all of the student allotment has been purchased, it's not apparent to me why people think that cost is at the root of the attendance issue.
One question that would be good to have an answer to is how many of the no-shows are actually watching the game at home or a sports bar or some other venue, and if so, why? Is it because of the high cost of concessions? The pain in the ass of taking a leak? Because they can go to Sportskeepers or wherever and drink without any hindrance while watching the game on a big screen?
Do what the airlines do, oversell and assigns seats at the gate. Once the student section is full, turn away any more that show up -- giving them their money back and a voucher for a nice bag of peanuts. Loyal customers get priority upgrades to better seats and faster admittance lines. Also, make them take off their shoes as they come in.
Geez, thought Brandon understood marketing and revenue maximization.
This strikes me as both the simplest and the most logical solution proposed here. So of the 22,000 students who bought season tickets this season, only 17,500 showed up for the MSU game, the most attractive game on the schedule this year.
So next year, sell 22,000 student season tickets but only allocate 17,500 seats to those 22,000 students. It would have to be general admission, of course. Every year you can re-allocate the size of the student section based on the largest student attendance at any game during the previous year.
You're not going to see a university do this. At some point, a kid would get turned away at the gate and it would be terrible PR. Brandon isn't just interested in revenue maximization. He is very interested in protecting and developing our "brand" as a school. That would be a bridge too far.
Wasn't really serious. Thought the part about making them take off their shoes and the voucher for the bag of peanuts might have tipped that off.
That aside, what is the point in developing the "brand"? Ultimately it is to maximize revenue. Maybe your point was an approach that maximizes revenue in the short run (such as above), could actually hurt brand recognition and long run revenue generation. In which case, I agree.
>That aside, what is the point in developing the "brand"?
> Ultimately it is to maximize revenue.
Go back and read Brandon's article again.
You mean the following article ( http://michigandaily.com/sports/neal-rothschild-just-call-him-dave-brand-it ): I realize just one opinion, but nonetheless.
It seems that more and more, Brandon is making a deal with the devil — earning millions more dollars for the Athletic Department at the expense of the vaunted tradition of Michigan athletics.
While you’re not exactly going to alienate your fan base by honoring former greats, there’s something off about this idea as well.
True tradition sprouts in a matter of years — decades. And it happens organically.
What Dave Brandon is trying to do is to manufacture a Michigan past and future all by himself. What’s happening is that the aura behind Michigan’s rich history is not being determined naturally, but rather, over a couple boardroom meetings.
Just like the Big Mac at McDonald’s or Anheuser-Busch’s Budweiser, Michigan has its own cash cow, and it’s the Block 'M' and all the tradition that comes with it.
What Brandon has to figure out is whether what he’s doing is more revolutionary, or, as I fear, just a mixture of money-grabbing, Block-'M' stamping moves to build Michigan’s bottom line like he’s still selling pizzas.
Every ticket is scanned and tracked. The AD know which student ticket was validated for re-sale, which ticket went unused and for which game(s). There continues to be a waiting list to be eligible for tickets. There is an annual $25 fee charged to remain on this list. The University is making money either way. Also, since the tickets were already paid for, the University can't force someone to use their ticket after it has been purchased. They can regulate how it is used (resold) but they are powerless if you chose to wallpaper your bathroom with the unused tickets.
The main issue here is our legacy of having the largest crowd viewing a football game anywhere in america. This is about maintaining the streak of over 100,000 in attendance each home game. With growing apathy from students this is at risk. It is also better for TV viewers (regardless of which network) to see a packed house. As more games are televised, this also affects recruiting. Who wants to go to a school where the students don't even show up to the game?
Brandon needs to trim the student section. Additonally, did you know that sutdents from U of M Dearborn and U of M Flint are eligible to purchase football tickets? Those on the waiting list should come before students at a campus that is not even considered a satellite campus. Now get of my effing lawn.
I am in support of doing something to correct the problem, but I want to hear how ppl will trim it. As I mentionned below, PSU tried to trim it, but they were not able to do so w/o excluding die hard fans the ability to buy tix.
As both an undergrad and a grad student one thing that really bothers me is the preferential seating for graduate students. Why as a first yr law student should you be in the front few rows? In addition, in my grad school, there are a lot of state ppl as well as other schools represented. Besides from the CMUs, Hope Colleges, and unsucessful D1 programs of the nation, most of my grad school classmates don't care as much about the games. Although grad students may not buy tix at all if they aren't in the front, isn't that enough of a reason not to allow them to buy tix? With that said, I noticed in undergrad the wasted sorority girls were less likely to go to games compared to all the ppl i mentioned above. I also noticed that some of my international student friends don't care and don't know what is going on at the game if they even show up.
So where does it leaves us? We can't discriminate people based on the reasons I listed. I'm afraid the HAIL program could be our only option. Maybe we can see if more people are more inclined. I think a limit on the # of students who can buy tix is a bad idea also. As a PA resident, my friends from high school stressed about whether or not they would be eligible to buy tix for the upcoming years. If we move towards a MCard only system of tix like the bball one that exists now, I think the Athletic department will be able to provide more data and make a better decision than us guessing.
Since when did this change, this year? A year ago, new grad students got treated ~like freshman and those continuing on from ugrad got to keep their priority.
Although there seems to be somewhat of a nationwide trend aspect to students not showing up, Brandon hasn't exactly help things:
1 He has diminished the game time experience by playing minor league baseballesque music through the game. Students don't want to listen to Thunderstruck, Iron Man, or other RAWK music 50 times a game.
2 The university has been complacent in the cops cracking down on tailgates near the stadium, so students are being pushed into now pregaming/tailgating further and further from the stadium. Students have always partied away from the stadium but used to kind of drift towards houses on State and Hoover as it got closer to game time but the AAPD has pretty much ended that so when students do finally decide to go the game they find themselves on Church, East U, or Oakland.
Additionally, I think more people are fans of college football in general now, and the television experience always you to flip between games and recieve updates from other games. I hate how scores from around the country are only presented once or twice at Michigan Stadium.
I would love to believe #1 is true, but every time we play some cheesy RAWK song, it seems like the students get more into it than anyone else - even for songs (like "Don't Stop Believing") that came out before they were born.