Dave Brandon on Fab Five Banners
So we all know how Mary-Sue feels about the Fab Five banners, and we know how Jalen feels, but today Dave Brandon gave his take on the situation. About rehanging the banners:
We're not even sure that we could put those banners up, If you vacated wins and forfeited wins and basically cleared the record books of any activity, it's hard to believe we could put back up the banners. We've never even gauged with the NCAA to see if that were possible. And, truthfully, if we had to forfeit the wins, it doesn't seem appropriate
He also said that no thought is being put into it right now, saying, "It's a moot point now. There's a lot of time that'll pass between now and 2013." But Brandon wasn't opposed to honoring the Fab Five somehow:
Are there (different) banners we could put up, though? Yeah, there are," he says. "I'd love to celebrate the Fab Five. Are there conditions on which that has to happen? For sure. But we've been very open and vocal about that, and there's just nothing new on this subject.
So it seems to me that what the Athletic Department still wants is for Chris to issue some sort of apology before any action is taken. Link: http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-basketball/michigan-unsure-if-fab-fiv…
April 25th, 2012 at 10:16 AM ^
how about a nice ceremony with no banners.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:19 AM ^
Seems like a pretty fair and logical response to me.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:45 AM ^
You must really like curly fries.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:20 AM ^
Seems to me there should be some way to celebrate the Fab Five, appreciate their accomplishments, and understand that 4 of the 5 guys at a minimum are due some appreciation at least and for Chris/University to reach an understanding and get over it. I think we will learn a lot about Chris and Brandon and the University by how they wind up approaching this and whether they will work something that makes some sense out. A university should be about teaching its students and alumni both standards of conduct and forgiveness.
Maybe a display case section with pictures of the guys during the time? I mean, Jackson, King, Rose and Howard deserve at least that and even if Weber does not work something out they could have their pictures as a group and game action photos in the case. Let it serve as a reminder to both students, alumni, and athletic scholarship recipients of what can happen to your legacy if you fail to follow the rules.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:24 AM ^
Brandon could even make some cash with a F5 DVD, t shirts, pom-poms, etrc.
I disagree. I understand time heels all wounds, but the Fab Five set back the basketball program more than a decade -- almost 2 decades.
The wins were vacated. The banners down. The $$$ returned. And we are just now starting to come out of stentch of what was probably the darkest hour in MBB history. The extent of the illegalities (both NCAA and legal) was astounding.
Jalen & co seem like good guys, I wish them nothing but the best. I enjoyed watching them here when they wore Maize & Blue, and I can appreciate how some of them want to come back. However, it doesn't change the fact we (as an institution) set aside some of our core prinicipals for short term gains.
It may not be the most popular opinion, but I'm fine with non-relationship. I hope (want) mich to stand for something besides just wins and losses. I want that to be doing things the right way. I'm probably too nieve to comment on this.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:21 AM ^
It really does seem like C Web is the hold up. Of the Fab 5, he is the only one who the NCAA was involved in the commission of an infraction. The other MBB players came layer. If C Web issues some sort of apology and maybe offers to do some work with the NCAA compliance unit (perhaps volunteering for a program for student athletes warning of the dangers of boosters, agents, etc.), I think that DB would gladly welcome the Fab 5 back to Michigan.
This needs to happen next year. While I was still in high school in NY at the time, for anyone who followed sports, the Fab 5 was a special phenomenon. Forget about the wins and the way that they changed the manner in which college BB was played, but the hype surrounding them was just awesome.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:32 AM ^
The Duke glitterati just called to bitch incessantly about your post. I'm sure they're working on their own documentary and op-eds to dispute your POV as we speak.
They don't need to worry about anybody else's.
I suppose, that if people continually ask about it, it is hard to avoid this topic. But apart from being continually asked about it, I don't understand why anybody in the Michigan Athletic Department has to think about the discarded banners, or talk about them, or do anything at all about them.
As I have said before, if the banners are symbolic to some people, I have a good symbolic suggestion. Place them in metal garbage cans, pour gasoline on them, and burn them to ashes. Then take the ashes and dump them on the grave of Ed Martin, who never played for Michigan, never coached at Michigan and never attended the University. But who caused so much grief. That would be a good symbolic message. And it would end the debate about where to hang the folded-up runner-up banners.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:26 AM ^
If they re-hung the banners, it would open Michigan and the fans up to endless criticism from the likes of Ohio and MSU. "You've got banners, but you didn't even win those games.."
Think how much grief we would give Ohio fans if they were in the same position. I like the idea of a ceremony or something to mark the Fab Five's impact, but the banners would be more of a pain than a source of joy.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:27 AM ^
We didn't vacate the Elite 8 win, we vactated the final four and then their sophomore season. It's like winning the Big Ten in football, committing a violation before the Rose Bowl, but after the Big Ten Championship and then saying that we didn't win the Big Ten without cheating when in fact we did. Timing matters,
April 25th, 2012 at 11:06 AM ^
This makes no sense what so ever. OSU, perfect example. They won a Sugar Bowl and Big Ten Title, they now have no record of it. That Elite 8 was reached with players who admitted to taking money. It is all the same.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:49 AM ^
Timing matters. The violations for OSU happened before the season of their championship ever started. They vacated only the wins and championships that happened with inelgible players, which was that entire season. Michigan did not play an ineligible player until the Final Four. They won the regional with a completely eligible team in 1992. The first violation occurred at the Final Four with the hotel benefits.
Michigan took down both banners because it was easier, not because it was right.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:58 AM ^
The banner doesn't say "Elite 8 Winner." It says Final Four. According to NCAA eligibility rules, Chris Webber was not an eligible student-athlete for the 1992 Final Four. Thus, how can you have a banner for an appearance in a game that has since been vacated? This isn't that difficult to grasp.
April 25th, 2012 at 12:20 PM ^
Because we won a game and finished 2nd. Had we lost the first game they would have most likely said Regional Champion, which is what we were. A Final Four banner is just another way of saying Regional Champion.
There's a reason you cut down the nets after the Elite 8 win. It's because you won something and put a banner up. The eligible team made it to the Final Four, which is why there's a banner. Playing in the game is has nothing to do with the accomplishment that is celebrated with the banner and cutting down the nets as a regional champion.
The NCAA basketball tournament is like the MHSAA tournament. You get the trophy for winning your district, regional, etc, not for appearing in the next round.
replacing an NCAA Finalist banner with an Elite Eight banner seems like a poor way to remember that season. I don't think any of us really remember the team that way. I'd be happier with no banner and a display in the arena hitting on the highlights of the season.
They made it to the Final Four with eligible players. Therefore they could hang a Final Four banner and it would be legit. If you win the Elite Eight round, which Michigan did, then you certainly wouldnt hang an Elite Eight banner.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:32 AM ^
There has got to be some way we can all criticize David Brandon for this interview. I cannot wait for the outrage.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:33 AM ^
Seems fair to me.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:44 AM ^
This is probably the perfect response that doesn't attempt to recognize vacated wins while still honoring the Fab Five for their impact at Michigan.
Now time to log onto my fake profile and criticize this opinion that Dave Brandon gave while twirling my thin moustache and dropping kittens off bridges while giving my meniacal laugh... I mean go back to work.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:52 AM ^
April 25th, 2012 at 10:58 AM ^
Dave Brandon spoke? MUST RAGE!!!
Oh. That's actually a pretty fair, well-reasoned response.
April 25th, 2012 at 10:59 AM ^
Easy... we just hang a banner celebrating our 1991 recruiting "national championship." I'm pretty sure Alabama has been padding their football national title counts with Rivals recruiting championships the last few years.
/s (obligatory for those that can't read a joke...)
April 25th, 2012 at 11:00 AM ^
Forcing someone to say sorry...it's just words. It doesn't mean they mean it.
Everyone has said sorry for something they're truly not apologetic or remorseful for.
F an apology, honor the Fab Five...even give out mini "Fab Five" banners to the first 5,000 people and autographed basketballs to the first 500 or something.
Make a night of it, a big spectale honoring a great era and one that put Michigan on the map more than any other --- one that changed the game for good.
Then dedicate some wing or corner of Crisler to the Fab Five where you can play highlight videos, watch ESPN Fab Five and see some of the stuff they won. That way if people want to visit the exhibit, they can...if not, go watch the current game and don't worry about the Fab Five displays. Maybe this is where you hang their banners? However, to me, that's symantics.
It's not about the banners, it's about acting like they existed. I'm biased, Chris Webber and Juwan Howard used to watch me and my friend over the summer when we lived at Woodbury Gardens next door to them. I'll always remember the Fab Five, but I find it hard to believe that ANYONE...Mary Sue Coleman and Dave Brandon included, to believe or act like these guys didn't exist.
Forgiveness. Healing wounds of the past. Honoring greatness.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:01 AM ^
April 25th, 2012 at 12:06 PM ^
Upvoted for Pliny the Elder.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:05 AM ^
Chris Webber will never apologize for anything to do with the Fab Five. Not saying he shouldn't. Just saying I am confident he never will.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:05 AM ^
So far all the people who seem to joke about "FAUX DAVE BRANDON RAGE.", there hasn't been much on this issue. I think almost everyone can agree this is a reasonable response to this issue. I'm not so sure I'd require an apology from C-Webb to honor what the Fab Five meant, but I completely understand that position from the AD.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:37 AM ^
From my perspective, the problem with any story that begins with "David Brandon said '____' today" is that I begin reading that story with a real fear he said something tin-eared or worse. So much of what DB says comes off like a trial balloon. And he comes off oftentimes as being calculating and corporate. (Likely because he's calculating and corporate - not entirely bad qualities for an A.D., but it seems a bit transparent with DB.) His response on this issue seems thoughtful and correct to me.* But I did not start the article assuming the best.
Contrast that to Brady Hoke. When I see a story that begins "Brady Hoke said '____' today" I go in with an assumption that what he said will be fully harmonious with my views of Michigan and sincere. And it's almost always something I can point to and say "now that's what Michigan is about!".
*Unsurprisingly, DB's statement also is fully-aligned with the prior statements of his boss.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:23 AM ^
about the impossibility of putting up banners for games you can no longer lay claim to when MSC spoke last week. Blisteringly obvious.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:39 AM ^
Dave Brandon would like to hang the banners, but that would require a gold-plated banner-hanging ladder, and there just isn't room for one in the budget right now. Maybe if some rich alumni could chip in or the bloggers could kickstarter one it could happen.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:56 AM ^
King Pizza's comments leave the door open for classy 10 foot high marble statues on the concourse
I'm upvoting you just because your avatar is hysterical.
April 25th, 2012 at 11:58 AM ^
I move that we design a banner in the shape of huge basketball shorts and hang em up to honor the fab 5.
April 25th, 2012 at 12:49 PM ^
Don't forget the black sox.
April 25th, 2012 at 12:50 PM ^
April 25th, 2012 at 12:55 PM ^
Who IS pushing to have them up anyways? While I personally would support them being rehung it seems based on this and many other threads that outside of Jalen I am the ONLY person who wants them back. And I'm not calling or writing the University lobbying for their reinstatement so that only leaves Jalen. Is he it? We all know C-Web's position on the issue and for the most part King, Howard and Jackson have at least publically been pretty quiet so is this all about Jalen?
Seriously - based on the comments posted I feel like the only fan who the darn things put back in the rafters so who's pressing this issue other than Mr Rose?
I loved the Fab Five. I was there as a student, etc. I hate that they broke the rules. I hate that the program got tanked for a decade plus because of what they (and those who immeidately followed) did. They were the best and the worst. They did things that no other MIchigan team did - both good and bad.
The banners are down, the wins are vacated, yet we have great memories of them. We love them and we hate what they did. There is just no way to resolve it all, there is no Hollywood ending on this. Just let it be.
I actually think Brandon had it right in the first quote. However, I think a non-banner ceremony to honor the players by not giving them what they want because they took money would be stange.
This appears to make complete sense and has nothing to do with revenue, kudos DB.
Chris Webber said on twitter that he hopes he can tell his side of the story some day.
Dave Brandon makes the most sense in this argument between Mary Sue Coleman and Jalen.
Why can't he tell his side of the story now? Is he under a gag order until the 10 years are up?
Except there really isn't a his side to the story besides a selfish kid who thinks the rules didn't apply to him. He's always tried to play this reality that he's someone who he isn't. He had enough money to survive in college. The, "I can't afford a pizza, while they're selling my jersey" stuff was crap. Mitch Albom and anyone who believes that has little idea of what college athletes actually get. They get a training table with more food than they need. They have stipends when they travel, that most athletes end up having much more left over than they'd actually spend.
Plus, forget about the degree potential. Let's be real, the two years at Michigan gave him time to develop as a basketball player, meaning he was more desirable as a basketball player to the NBA, meaning more money.
Working together to begin a dark period in Michigan basketball? Their B10 titles - nope never one those. There two back-to-back national championship losses - didn't tiny Butler accomplish that, and were at least somewhat competitve in both games.
Honor the fact that they made a mockery of the integrity of the University. That whenever I mention integrity in college athletics one of the first topics brought up is the Fab Five, and the next group of recruits who took money. Great!
I know this is not the popular story, but while inventive and progressive for basketball, their damage to the legacy and reputation of the program is harmful. Under Freider and Orr (no saints themselves) Michigan was consistently competing for conference titles. Orr took Michigan to a championship game loss. Frieder's recruits won a title with then interim coach Steve Fisher. Since the recruiting classes of Webber, Rose, Howard, King, Jackson, and then Traylor, Baston, Ward, Taylor and Mitchell (btw - Mitchell was in my orientation group - of course he slept through it, which was why he was in orientation for the second time), Michigan basketball has either been a joke, or we've been giddy with finishing in the top half of the Big Ten and making the tournament. What a step down.
Let this period die at Michigan. Let us move on, let those outside the university celebrate it, but for the University, no celebration, no forced apologies, no revisionist history. Most of them have proven that it's all about themselves, and never was about Michigan.