Nice article by Angelique covering Dave Brandon's address to the Wolverine Caucus in Lansing. Nothing too surprising or new here, but I think it's pretty obvious we'll be seeing more stuff rolled out that some may not like. He's not perfect, and while there have been a few ideas I've disliked, it's hard to argue he hasn't been good for the overall direction of the Athletic Department....
Nice juxtaposition with
I'm a part of the "current
I'm a part of the "current generation" and I care a ton about tradition.
I'm not the only one. Read the survey Brian did a few months back. Read the board. Read Brian's posts (Or is he too old to qualify as "current generation"?) Hell, your post makes me wonder if you read MGoBlog at all.
CJK5H
But...
"...the current and future generation are a lot less concerned with tradition that most."
But they'll change as they get older. That part of the tradition of tradition.
Wow. Hate marketers much? I
Wow. Hate marketers much? I take it you are an engineer who's great idea got shot down?
"Anyone who isn't confused, really doesn't understand the situation." - Edward R. Murrow
Fact: Marketers are fuckwads.
Fact: Marketers are fuckwads.
RIP my avatar, June 14, 1998 - October 26, 2012.
Uh... what?
First off, I can't believe your POV got upvoted.
Second, what do you think about any product you've ever purchased? Damn those evil marketers. Making, selling and advertising consumer goods. WHAT THE HELL, MAN!?
Now leave me alone so I can play with my iPhone...
Marketers
Do you rmember Don Cahnam? They called him "Dollar Don". Without Dollar Don, we would not have had Bo, we would now have 50,000, mostly ulumni, in the stands and hope to finish in the top half of the Big Ten every year.
"If fans don't come to the ballpark, you can't stop em."
He's almost as
funny as Bill Maher.
"If fans don't come to the ballpark, you can't stop em."
Just for fun
I am not resistant to change. In fact, I LOVE change. I'll
even suggest a change: DB dump Pop Evil!
Your opinion has no value.
You just missed the entire
You just missed the entire forest. But yeah, keep looking at that one little tree because it is clearly that important.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
You're so right and I was wrong. Thank you for pointing out the
forest to me. You are blessed living in Wyoming because of your abundant forests. It is hard for those of us in urban settings to look beyond a single tree. The forest is beautiful man! Just beautiful.
Thanks again, I owe you!
Your opinion has no value.
We shelled out hard cash to
We shelled out hard cash to hire Mattison away from the NFL. That was possible in large part to DB's new 'increased cash flow' operation philosophy. I would be more than happy to have an open debate whether change is good or bad, but you just seem to want to be angry.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
Pretty sure we had the coin
Pretty sure we had the coin to hire Mattison or a similarly expensive DC years ago, we just chose not to spend it. THAT'S changed , but it's got little if anything to do with increased cash flow.
I doubt anyone is coming or not coming to Michigan games because of Pop Evil, so complaining about them as an aesthetic abomination is perfectly reasonable.
It's not hard to argue at all.
He presided over Michigan and OSU being split into seperate divisions, compromising the long-term significance of one of sport's greatest rivalries.
Do you really know how the
Do you really know how the Michigan/OSU rivalry will look like in 10, 20 or even 50 years? You can't possibly understand the effect on the long term significance with guesses and assumptions. Only in hindsight will we know what the effect was. My money is that DB thought long and hard about it and made the best choice he could.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
I can use facts and logic
Best Case Scenarios
then: Michigan and OSU face off for a de facto conference championship game to end the season, winner takes all.
now: Michigan and OSU play each other twice in 2 weeks with the deciding game in a sterile neutral field dome
Rooting Interests
then: always root for OSU to lose
now: root for OSU to win when they play teams in our division
I could go on, but you're obviously trolling.
The rivalry will always be
The rivalry will always be special, even if there may be a rematch in a dome. With mega-conferences on the horizon, your "now" scenarios may only describe 2011 and 2012 anyways, then who the hell knows.
The swag is back.
LTT just burned his letter
LTT just burned his letter from OSU, and then got death threats. I don't really see any signs that the rivalry is going to slip a notch at all.
But again, since both of us are just making assumptions based on our own personal beliefs and biases, neither one of us are going to 'win' this debate. The fact is, we just don't know what will happen until we can look back.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
I didn't say the rivalry was dead, I said it was compromised
There are no assumptions or biases in acknowledging that Michigan competes more directly with teams in division than teams outside it.
The Game - may not even be a single game anymore. It can't possibly be as meaningful as it was before, not with the possibility of a rematch looming. Not with the possibility of meaningless tune up games or, in a worst case scenario (that admittedly may not happen any time soon) of coaches resting starters in preparation for the championship game.
We can sit here and pretend like nothing is knowable about the future but previously there was ZERO possibility of certain negative things happening and now those probabilities are non-zero. While it's true that we don't know how exactly the scenarios all play out, chances are that eventually these scenarios will happen. Already Michigan fans have found themselves rooting for Ohio State to win games to increase our chances of making the championship game. Michigan fans rooting for Ohio State, Michigan fans and Ohio State fans rooting for a common interest - what was sacreligious will soon be common place. If you want to pretend that has no bearing on the rivalary you're being willfully obtuse.
This was all easily avoidable by putting OSU and UM in the same division, a stance Brandon should have taken firmly.
And it can get even better than that...
...just wait until M and OSU are both ranked in the top four. Then they might be in the last game of the regular season, the Big Ten championship and possibly again in the national 4 team playoff.
How awesome will it be to play OSU three times in like five weeks? Super awesome, right?
Given the weight of late
Given the weight of late season losses, it's hard to see a U-M / OSU B1G championship game with the loser of that game going on to a top-four playoff.
Midwestern born and raised ... now living in the heat of the Arizona desert
Amen
It happened before when we were 1 and 2, but until we start putting beating on the SEC powerhouses, we won't be given the type of respect we deserve.
"We want the Big 10 championship. And we’re going to win it as a TEAM"
Not awesome
Playing a single game is more dramatic and interesting than playing a 'series' of 3. That's why the NCAA tournament has much broader popularity than the NBA (in this country anyway.)
Untrue
This alleged "much broader popularity" is borne out neither in the regular season nor the post season ratings for the NBA playoffs and NCAA tournament. This year's final four was the highest rated since 2005 at 9.6% of American households, which is still less than the ratings of the past two NBA finals. Regular season ratings follow the same pattern.
And I disagree. The first game of a multi-game series is less interesting than a one and done, obviously, but the strategy and adjustment of a multi-game series, as it plays out, is more dramatic than a single game (at least for basketball, there's obviously no football comparison).
Evidence:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Basketball_Association_Nielsen_ratings
Good info
However, in the link you provided, the conference finals (the equivalent of the final 4) show a rating of between 2.8 to 6.3, usually in the range of 4.5. So while, yes, due to a significant increase in the last couple years, the NBA finals are now on par with the NCAA final, the drama of the earlier rounds makes the NCAA more interesting to TV viewers overall.
I also wonder how Nielsen handles online streaming, which is very heavily used for the NCAA.
I, personally, prefer the NBA's model to any other, but I have the impression that the NCAA draws way more interest into it's playoff than the NBA. The first round is no-contest. Even hard-core NBA fans don't watch very closely.
Or he looked at the projected
Or he looked at the projected ratings for a Michigan/OSU championship game and saw all the money that goes with it. It really could go both ways
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
Providing I'm still around in 10 or 50 years
I'll still hate Woody Hayes, Archie Griffin, the whole state of Ohio, the color red, and I'll tell the damn'd whippersnappers to get down in front.
I'm on the record of not really caring that OSU is in the other division. It would have happened once/ twice in the past two decades?
I have a Fandom Endurance III merit badge
of course you will
and so will I. But younger people may well be more concerned with MSU or even Nebraska.
Again, I don't think the divisional alignment destroys the rivalry. (We've maintained our rivalry with Notre Dame despite not even playing in the same conference.) It's just that, rematch or not, our focus will be on winning the division first, since that's the way to get to get to a championship game. It's the same logic that Bo and Hoke applied to focusing on winning the Big10 (rather than a national championship.)
If Michigan and Ohio State are both undefeated, as they were in 2006, The Game becomes nothing more than a tune-up. There are scenarios where that tune-up matters (national title implications) and there are scenarios where it does not (champion-only auto-bids to playoffs). The prospect of coaches sitting key players for The Game horrifies me. If you think that's unlikely, fine, but the fact that it's possible is a travesty IMO.
Nebraska-Oklahoma is not what it was. Miami-FSU is not what it was. The reasons may not be the same, but seemingly unassailable rivalries can dwindle and even disappear.
December
Well I guess it's a good thing the worlds ending in December. Pretty sure everyone would agree there is a better chance of that happening, then a Michigan or Ohio State coach sitting players for "The Game" just so they are well rested for some playoff.
Now a more realistic change would be moving the game. Which would surely end the world, so regardless the world is going to end.
Try to stay more optomistic instead of all doom and gloom the world is not going to end.
He presided over Michigan and
He presided over Michigan and OSU being split into seperate divisions, compromising the long-term significance of one of sport's greatest rivalries.
Realistically, could he have prevented this? From what I've read, it sounds like the league was fixated on this from the start.
Is he a leader or isn't he?
Michigan and Ohio State are the most prominent athletic programs in the conference. It might not have been easy, but if Brandon was adament about it, it seems to me he could have done something. Even something as dramatic as threatened to join the Big12. I don't buy 'there's nothing he could do' for a second.
So, just so I understand,
So, just so I understand, leaving for the Big 12 is okay (and not damaging to tradition) but being in separate divisions with the possibility of playing OSU twice in a season is punishable by death. Gotcha.
The swag is back.
You forgot to blame DB for the MNT
Because if he is in charge, TRULY in charge, then nothing involving Michigan can take place without his approval. Had he worked just a bit harder, Michigan could have been playing in the title game.
But the fact that Michigan
But the fact that Michigan and OSU are the most prominent programs was considered a justification for splitting them up. The smaller programs didn't want to risk going some years without playing one or the other. For schools like Northwestern and Indiana, who depend on visits from big-name schools to sell out, missing out on both schools in a year would mean losing a lot of ticket revenue.
OSU and Michigan are the most
OSU and Michigan are the most prominent historically, but PSU and Nebraska aren't that far off, and Wisconsin has been consistently elite for a long time now.
Indiana getting a 10K bump (or whatever) in ticket sales once every other year isn't a significant change in the big picture of revenue.
You could even argue the other side - that they have a better chance of winning the division if they're away from UM/OSU.
Change? We fear change.
OMFG MY LAWN!!!!
But Brandon has reiterated on more than one occasion he believes change is good. He joked that Michigan fans have been stuck in a pattern of doing things the way they've always been done, and when things have gone wrong, they resort to singing the fight song, "The Victors."
Brandon said: "You know what, I don't care (about resistance) because we're going to be contemporary, we're going to be innovative, we're going to be relevant and we're going to grow."
He brought us Hoke and a
He brought us Hoke and a (presumably) return to glory. Change is tough but it has to be done to some degree. Look at ND. They're one of only a few teams that's up there with us in the tradition department and are far more resistant than we are to change and they have become irrelevant in all aspects except recruiting, and their fans are lame at their games. I'd say the young people comprising the fan base are not revved up by the game day experience the way they used to be. You've gotta keep up with the times. As long as the ideals aren't compromised, the helmets aren't changed, and we keep winning, I won't have a major beef.
"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.
-Craig Roh 10/29/2011
ND is a strawman in this
ND is a strawman in this debate though. Their sticking to tradition doesn't equate to them hiring awful coach after awful coach.
Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th
I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm
i do not believe Hoke was
i do not believe Hoke was first on his list. the difference between Martin and Brandon is that Martin actually landed someone near the top of his list, right? that and sailboats.
...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.
If you believe Brandon on
If you believe Brandon on that, and I most certainly do, Hoke was choice #1A, #1B, and #1C. I think DB even says Harbaugh wasn't offered and the flight to Baton Rouge a smokescreen.
The swag is back.
I don't. He has nothing to
I don't. He has nothing to gain by telling the truth if Hoke wasn't his first choice (as all it would do is undermine him), and everything to gain by lying. Especially with how it has worked out thus far.
Denard has spent the offseason working really hard and smiling at people.
This. Even if Hoke wasn't the
This. Even if Hoke wasn't the first choice, he has no responsibility to tell the fans that. It would only serve to undermine Hoke's image to the fan base and his authority over the team. So whether joke was or was not the first choice, I have no problem with the way the search played out, because in this case I think the ends do in fact justify the means. No lasting damage was done by dragging it out and doing his homework.
"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.
-Craig Roh 10/29/2011
Im ashamed that my iPhone
Im ashamed that my iPhone does not recognize Hoke as a word and that I'm not near a computer to fix this horrible mistake. I apologize.
"Michigan Defense" is dominating everything, in every aspect of life. That's a rough definition.
-Craig Roh 10/29/2011
How insane would it be if the
How insane would it be if the guy who took Stanford from obsolete to 12-1 and a top 4 team wasn't offered or considered? Quite frankly, it would be a failure on DB's part of Harbaugh wasn't offered or considered.
Dave Brandon has done some good things. He's done some bad things. He's gotten very lucky with some things.
He's not the marketing genius, brand guru, etc. that he makes himself out to be.
Considering and offering are
Considering and offering are two different things. Harbaugh is one heck of a coach, I'm sure he was considered along with a slew of other potential candidates for the job. But if I get Brandon (I think I have some idea of how he thinks), Hoke was his first choice for the job because of his lack of ego and the peace that an ego-less HC brings to the Athletic Department.
The swag is back.
Or, if you’re cynical,
Or, if you’re cynical, because Brandon didn’t want to contend with as dynamic a personality as Harbaugh. Difficult to control a man like Harbaugh. These debates about Brandon will go on forever, he is very divisive.
Or, Harbaugh was definitely
Or, Harbaugh was definitely the first choice because he was the most proven coach with Michigan ties coming off a wildly successful season and chose to go to the NFL, leaving Brandon scrambling for another "Michigan Man" that happened to be Brady Hoke.
Which worked out well for all of us, but wasn't some bold masterstroke by Brandon, rather he shoehorned himself into a very small group of candidates based on their assocation with the university and came up with Hoke.
Dave Brandon is a lucky, lucky man.
wait what now? i thought it
wait what now? i thought it was pretty clearly established mgodogma that Brandon was waiting for Harbaugh, hence all the waiting around until after the bowl game and all that crap. i don't think it's at all a stretch to say Hoke fell into our lap. considering his resume, it would have taken a ridiculous stretch to put him anywhere near the top. and we still don't know whether he gets hired without the possibility of pulling Mattison on board.
all that sounds pretty anti-Hoke, but it's not meant to be. it's just meant to demonstrate that credits to Brandon need to be discounted given a number of factors involved in Hoke's hiring. ftr: i can't believe how incredible this turnaround has been. i've been following recruting closely since 2005 (thank you, mgo) and long since wrote off the idea that we could ever score a number 1 recruiting class. the whole thing is just nuts and i love it.
...the Canadians make up for it with their emotion and classic ice-dancing skill.
Delany and the team speaking on behalf of the BIGTEN with regard to a playoff/BCS. As much as a lot of you guys may not be on board with all the changes DB has been pushing, at least he is a progressive guy and senses that the current and future generation are a lot less concerned with tradition that most. of the old guys running things. I seriously doubt DB would sell out for the sole purposes of saving a bowl game, even the Rose Bowl.